Mancini has to go?

[Ted Hughes]

I have no idea whether Savic can turn into Bobby Moore but why does he deserve time to become City's CB any more than any other 21 year old ? What has he shown us that means we have to persevere with him ? Why can't we just sign someone who looks like a really promising CB & persevere with him (but not in the 1st team) instead ?

Exactly correct.
Now IF Savic had come through Academy with all the homegrown rules in place I would kind of get the point in trying to mould him into something (which even in that case I wouldn't believe would happen but that is besides the point). But Savic isn't homegrown player and therefore if we see better 21 year old (I know there are better 16 year olds but again, besides the point) we should just sell him on and sign that better player.

Managers make mistakes every now and then when they sign players. That's life. Ferguson signed that one hobo clown from Portugal (his name escapes me) for huge money few years back, gave him couple of chances and realised that someone had done number on him. What did he do? He sure as hell didn't keep playing him but ditched him off as soon as possible. It's important to admit that you have made a mistake and move on.

Bebe.

He's just loaned him out where nobody can see him, whilst waiting for Steve Bruce to get a new job.

[Beefymcfc]

I have no idea whether Savic can turn into Bobby Moore but why does he deserve time to become City's CB any more than any other 21 year old ? What has he shown us that means we have to persevere with him ? Why can't we just sign someone who looks like a really promising CB & persevere with him (but not in the 1st team) instead ?

Exactly correct.
Now IF Savic had come through Academy with all the homegrown rules in place I would kind of get the point in trying to mould him into something (which even in that case I wouldn't believe would happen but that is besides the point). But Savic isn't homegrown player and therefore if we see better 21 year old (I know there are better 16 year olds but again, besides the point) we should just sell him on and sign that better player.

Managers make mistakes every now and then when they sign players. That's life. Ferguson signed that one hobo clown from Portugal (his name escapes me) for huge money few years back, gave him couple of chances and realised that someone had done number on him. What did he do? He sure as hell didn't keep playing him but ditched him off as soon as possible. It's important to admit that you have made a mistake and move on.

But I don't think Mancini has made a mistake here, not by buying him anyway. Your posts sounds like a back-handed slap to say Mancini just made a mistake in buying him, then throwing the 'Taggart' scenario to back it up.

Earlier in the season Savic played in various positions, on the right and in the centre, and I thought he showed real promise; I even praised him for it, especially in the League Cup games. When I looked at his stats, just to confirm my thoughts, I noticed that we'd not lost a game where he played until the Cup Derby where he came on as sub and we put that impressive fight-back together. It was after this that it all went wrong for him.

The penalty he gave away in the first CC game against Liverpool started a series of incidents that killed his confidence. He was thrown in due to to Vinnies absence and although he had a decent game otherwise, that clip started the run. There was the shit back-header in the Spurs game that gave them a foot-hold and, for me, the Liverpool game just killed all remnants of his confidence. For some reason we started the game with a back 3 with Savic, not Lescott, playing in the middle. He got trounced by Bellamy and Carroll and just seemed to lose all faith in himself and those around him - 'Short arm's' as Mancini may say and that's who I put it down to, Mancini for putting a 21 year old in a crucial position without any cover.

The nail in the coffin was his mistake at Swansea, where he seemed not even capable of passing a ball without tensing up and quite rightly was one of his last games and after the Sporting game Mancini did the right thing and took him out of the spotlight, problem being, it was just too late.

So, do I blame a 21 year old new recruit for making mistakes against high pressure Premier League teams? No, I don't. Do I blame Mancini for throwing him in there? Again, no I don't but I do blame Mancini for setting him up for a fall and then not realising his mistake. We could all see what was happening and even though we had no CB option due to other circumstances he should've at least changed the system earlier to take pressure off him or move Micah into the position which was a far better option.

Sorry for the long post but I believe he can make it, just not yet.

[Ted Hughes]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

[Beefymcfc]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

Well, that fucks over my analysis. His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game, he'd played in about 20 games before that so highlighting 3 is a bit poor. Also, in that Wolves game every player started shit, weren't we 2 down before we got going?

By your own admission we could say Micah is shit because he can't get a game for England, never mind being moved position, or we could say Silva is shit because he's been shit in a few games. What do you reckon?

[Ted Hughes]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

Well, that fucks over my analysis. His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game, he'd played in about 20 games before that so highlighting 3 is a bit poor. Also, in that Wolves game every player started shit, weren't we 2 down before we got going?

By your own admission we could say Micah is shit because he can't get a game for England, never mind being moved position, or we could say Silva is shit because he's been shit in a few games. What do you reckon?

I recon I've seen 30/40 CB's from City's reserves/youth team over the years who all looked to have more raw talent than Savic, leave. Ned is the latest, probably soon to be followed by Boyata.

[john@staustell]

So it's agreed - 'Savic has to go'

Now what about Mancini? Taggart's list of transfer failures is like a telephone directory.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I have no idea whether Savic can turn into Bobby Moore but why does he deserve time to become City's CB any more than any other 21 year old ? What has he shown us that means we have to persevere with him ? Why can't we just sign someone who looks like a really promising CB & persevere with him (but not in the 1st team) instead ?

Exactly correct.
Now IF Savic had come through Academy with all the homegrown rules in place I would kind of get the point in trying to mould him into something (which even in that case I wouldn't believe would happen but that is besides the point). But Savic isn't homegrown player and therefore if we see better 21 year old (I know there are better 16 year olds but again, besides the point) we should just sell him on and sign that better player.

Managers make mistakes every now and then when they sign players. That's life. Ferguson signed that one hobo clown from Portugal (his name escapes me) for huge money few years back, gave him couple of chances and realised that someone had done number on him. What did he do? He sure as hell didn't keep playing him but ditched him off as soon as possible. It's important to admit that you have made a mistake and move on.

But I don't think Mancini has made a mistake here, not by buying him anyway. Your posts sounds like a back-handed slap to say Mancini just made a mistake in buying him, then throwing the 'Taggart' scenario to back it up.

Earlier in the season Savic played in various positions, on the right and in the centre, and I thought he showed real promise; I even praised him for it, especially in the League Cup games. When I looked at his stats, just to confirm my thoughts, I noticed that we'd not lost a game where he played until the Cup Derby where he came on as sub and we put that impressive fight-back together. It was after this that it all went wrong for him.

The penalty he gave away in the first CC game against Liverpool started a series of incidents that killed his confidence. He was thrown in due to to Vinnies absence and although he had a decent game otherwise, that clip started the run. There was the shit back-header in the Spurs game that gave them a foot-hold and, for me, the Liverpool game just killed all remnants of his confidence. For some reason we started the game with a back 3 with Savic, not Lescott, playing in the middle. He got trounced by Bellamy and Carroll and just seemed to lose all faith in himself and those around him - 'Short arm's' as Mancini may say and that's who I put it down to, Mancini for putting a 21 year old in a crucial position without any cover.

The nail in the coffin was his mistake at Swansea, where he seemed not even capable of passing a ball without tensing up and quite rightly was one of his last games and after the Sporting game Mancini did the right thing and took him out of the spotlight, problem being, it was just too late.

So, do I blame a 21 year old new recruit for making mistakes against high pressure Premier League teams? No, I don't. Do I blame Mancini for throwing him in there? Again, no I don't but I do blame Mancini for setting him up for a fall and then not realising his mistake. We could all see what was happening and even though we had no CB option due to other circumstances he should've at least changed the system earlier to take pressure off him or move Micah into the position which was a far better option.

Sorry for the long post but I believe he can make it, just not yet.

It's not slap on Mancini for buying him. In fact, I don't know if he was bought by Marwood or Mancini. But when you are in club like ours, not exactly cash strapped and able to attract top players, you have got to be able to raise your hands up and say "I might've made mistake there". I forgive Savic purchase but if we keep giving him chances next year, I might start to wonder whether Mancini's stubborness (mostly good thing) is getting ahead of team selection.

As far as Savic' mistakes and (lack of) ability goes, I'm not even going to start that argument. He is useless.

[Beefymcfc]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

Well, that fucks over my analysis. His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game, he'd played in about 20 games before that so highlighting 3 is a bit poor. Also, in that Wolves game every player started shit, weren't we 2 down before we got going?

By your own admission we could say Micah is shit because he can't get a game for England, never mind being moved position, or we could say Silva is shit because he's been shit in a few games. What do you reckon?

I recon I've seen 30/40 CB's from City's reserves/youth team over the years who all looked to have more raw talent than Savic, leave. Ned is the latest, probably soon to be followed by Boyata.

But the truth is that Ned should have been there so Savic didn't have to be. What happened to him?

[Ted Hughes]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

Well, that fucks over my analysis. His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game, he'd played in about 20 games before that so highlighting 3 is a bit poor. Also, in that Wolves game every player started shit, weren't we 2 down before we got going?

By your own admission we could say Micah is shit because he can't get a game for England, never mind being moved position, or we could say Silva is shit because he's been shit in a few games. What do you reckon?

I recon I've seen 30/40 CB's from City's reserves/youth team over the years who all looked to have more raw talent than Savic, leave. Ned is the latest, probably soon to be followed by Boyata.

But the truth is that Ned should have been there so Savic didn't have to be. What happened to him?

He's not quite good enough imo, in particular in the air, but he's as good in the air as Savic, 5 yards faster & a much better defender.

[Beefymcfc]

I outed him in the pre season friendly as appearing to have no ovious ability when several players ran past him without appearing to actually have any pace or trickery.

That lack of talent was confirmed in the away League Cup game at Wolves, for Montenegro (so bad they moved him to fullback) v England & at QPR (he was dogshit in all 3 games) then his mistakes started to become more obviously catastrophic when he played against better teams in the Prem.

Well, that fucks over my analysis. His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game, he'd played in about 20 games before that so highlighting 3 is a bit poor. Also, in that Wolves game every player started shit, weren't we 2 down before we got going?

By your own admission we could say Micah is shit because he can't get a game for England, never mind being moved position, or we could say Silva is shit because he's been shit in a few games. What do you reckon?

I recon I've seen 30/40 CB's from City's reserves/youth team over the years who all looked to have more raw talent than Savic, leave. Ned is the latest, probably soon to be followed by Boyata.

But the truth is that Ned should have been there so Savic didn't have to be. What happened to him?

He's not quite good enough imo, in particular in the air, but he's as good in the air as Savic, 5 yards faster & a much better defender.

I agree, but he has got a few years on Savic and the fact he came through our system, not just brought in a year prior, helped him immensely. But like I said, Ned pissed on his chips after calling the gaffer out, also pissed on ours when we could've done with him.

[Hazy2]

Just a heads up or Saturday if Bobby reads this, Norwich are like Swansea , thye will let us play our game. they have a decent target man in Holt,midfield like to get forward, sharp on the 2nd ball and have good energy, Back 4 is ok nothing special, The fans will be well up for it. They have a good manager who likes to play proper football, we are better than them Fact.

" SO LETS NOT BE FUCKING ABOUT WITH ANY THOUGHTS OF PLAYING IT TIGHT, KOLAROV WILL NOT BE REQUIED, AS WE WILLHAVE TO DEFEND WELL. STICK TO THE STRONGEST TEAM PLEASE, GET ANOTHER 3 POINTS CHEERS.

"if bobby reads this" you balloon! Do you think he will take your comments on board. I expect platt and kidd are crapping themselves!!!!!

Brian Kidd rescued the point v Sunderland you balloon, and yes I do not want Alex thunder boots anywhere near the Norwich area, cheers..

[Grob]

I agree, but he has got a few years on Savic and the fact he came through our system, not just brought in a year prior, helped him immensely. But like I said, Ned pissed on his chips after calling the gaffer out, also pissed on ours when we could've done with him.

Whenever I watch Savic, and to a lesser extent Toure, I feel like theres a clanger coming. Thats enough for me to want to see the back of them.

Whilst Nedum was limited, I cant remember him dropping too many clangers. Ive never understaood the fascination managers have with playing him a right back. I thought the best run he had was when he was paired with Dunne at center back in the second half of I think the Sven season.

[CityGer]

Why are people talking about Ned as someone who could have been retained?

His old dear, egged on by that slimey cunt Joorabchian, sold out to the sun with a story that resulted in our CEO walking away. Ned should have been fucked off the minute that story went public.

Cook was in the wrong, I'd have been livid if it was my mother whose illness was being mocked, but Ned's mother should not have gone to the papers and wouldn't have done so without Ned's (and Joorabchian's) consent.

End of City career, there and then. He should never have played for us again after that.

Yes, he's streets ahead of Savic, although Ned is average at best, but he allowed himself to be influenced by that snake Joorabchian and is quite rightly plying his trade elsewhere now.

[Grob]

Why are people talking about Ned as someone who could have been retained?

His old dear, egged on by that slimey cunt Joorabchian, sold out to the sun with a story that resulted in our CEO walking away. Ned should have been fucked off the minute that story went public.

Cook was in the wrong, I'd have been livid if it was my mother whose illness was being mocked, but Ned's mother should not have gone to the papers and wouldn't have done so without Ned's (and Joorabchian's) consent.

End of City career, there and then. He should never have played for us again after that.

Yes, he's streets ahead of Savic, although Ned is average at best, but he allowed himself to be influenced by that snake Joorabchian and is quite rightly plying his trade elsewhere now.

I wouldnt have retained him, he looked totally out of place in this team in the Arsenel cup game, clearly not good enough.

I thought he had the potential to be a very good center back 4 years ago, but thats long gone thanks to prolonged absences from the team due to injury and playing at right back with his awful distribution.

[Grob]

Why are people talking about Ned as someone who could have been retained?

His old dear, egged on by that slimey cunt Joorabchian, sold out to the sun with a story that resulted in our CEO walking away. Ned should have been fucked off the minute that story went public.

Cook was in the wrong, I'd have been livid if it was my mother whose illness was being mocked, but Ned's mother should not have gone to the papers and wouldn't have done so without Ned's (and Joorabchian's) consent.

End of City career, there and then. He should never have played for us again after that.

Yes, he's streets ahead of Savic, although Ned is average at best, but he allowed himself to be influenced by that snake Joorabchian and is quite rightly plying his trade elsewhere now.

I wouldnt have retained him, he looked totally out of place in this team in the Arsenel cup game, clearly not good enough.

But still better than Savic which I think is the point people including myself are making.

I thought he had the potential to be a very good center back 4 years ago, but thats long gone thanks to prolonged absences from the team due to injury and playing at right back with his awful distribution.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

>>>>> His mistakes came more obvious after the Liverpool game

And after he became the new scapegoat.

[mr_nool]

I agree, but he has got a few years on Savic and the fact he came through our system, not just brought in a year prior, helped him immensely. But like I said, Ned pissed on his chips after calling the gaffer out, also pissed on ours when we could've done with him.

Whenever I watch Savic, and to a lesser extent Toure, I feel like theres a clanger coming. Thats enough for me to want to see the back of them.

Whilst Nedum was limited, I cant remember him dropping too many clangers. Ive never understaood the fascination managers have with playing him a right back. I thought the best run he had was when he was paired with Dunne at center back in the second half of I think the Sven season.

I actually, contrary to everyone else, think that Savic has a future in football. He can actually control the football and pick out a good pass. Imo he was just thrown into the deep end and was off to a bad start, which caused him to panic in standard situations. I remember the WBA game at home last season, where Kolo played right centre back and Boateng played right fullback. They passed the ball betweeen them like a hot potatoe, totally without skill or awearness. It was somewhere in between pure tragic and comic. Personally, I think that Savic can develop into a better footballer than the both of them.

[CityGer]

Why are people talking about Ned as someone who could have been retained?

His old dear, egged on by that slimey cunt Joorabchian, sold out to the sun with a story that resulted in our CEO walking away. Ned should have been fucked off the minute that story went public.

Cook was in the wrong, I'd have been livid if it was my mother whose illness was being mocked, but Ned's mother should not have gone to the papers and wouldn't have done so without Ned's (and Joorabchian's) consent.

End of City career, there and then. He should never have played for us again after that.

Yes, he's streets ahead of Savic, although Ned is average at best, but he allowed himself to be influenced by that snake Joorabchian and is quite rightly plying his trade elsewhere now.

I wouldnt have retained him, he looked totally out of place in this team in the Arsenel cup game, clearly not good enough.

But still better than Savic which I think is the point people including myself are making.

I thought he had the potential to be a very good center back 4 years ago, but thats long gone thanks to prolonged absences from the team due to injury and playing at right back with his awful distribution.

I agree that he's a better centre half than Savic, even now with his potential not realised.

On footballing abilities alone Ned is well ahead. However, it's all moot as imo he breached the code and called time on his city career.

The pertinent point here is that Bobby should have realised in Jan that with no Vinny or Kolo, he was exposed, not good enough and that a decent centre half was needed.

[Beefymcfc]

I agree, but he has got a few years on Savic and the fact he came through our system, not just brought in a year prior, helped him immensely. But like I said, Ned pissed on his chips after calling the gaffer out, also pissed on ours when we could've done with him.

Whenever I watch Savic, and to a lesser extent Toure, I feel like theres a clanger coming. Thats enough for me to want to see the back of them.

Whilst Nedum was limited, I cant remember him dropping too many clangers. Ive never understaood the fascination managers have with playing him a right back. I thought the best run he had was when he was paired with Dunne at center back in the second half of I think the Sven season.

I actually, contrary to everyone else, think that Savic has a future in football. He can actually control the football and pick out a good pass. Imo he was just thrown into the deep end and was off to a bad start, which caused him to panic in standard situations. I remember the WBA game at home last season, where Kolo played right centre back and Boateng played right fullback. They passed the ball betweeen them like a hot potatoe, totally without skill or awearness. It was somewhere in between pure tragic and comic. Personally, I think that Savic can develop into a better footballer than the both of them.

Ahem! And yes, I agree.

[Grob]

Why are people talking about Ned as someone who could have been retained?

His old dear, egged on by that slimey cunt Joorabchian, sold out to the sun with a story that resulted in our CEO walking away. Ned should have been fucked off the minute that story went public.

Cook was in the wrong, I'd have been livid if it was my mother whose illness was being mocked, but Ned's mother should not have gone to the papers and wouldn't have done so without Ned's (and Joorabchian's) consent.

End of City career, there and then. He should never have played for us again after that.

Yes, he's streets ahead of Savic, although Ned is average at best, but he allowed himself to be influenced by that snake Joorabchian and is quite rightly plying his trade elsewhere now.

I wouldnt have retained him, he looked totally out of place in this team in the Arsenel cup game, clearly not good enough.

But still better than Savic which I think is the point people including myself are making.

I thought he had the potential to be a very good center back 4 years ago, but thats long gone thanks to prolonged absences from the team due to injury and playing at right back with his awful distribution.

I agree that he's a better centre half than Savic, even now with his potential not realised.

On footballing abilities alone Ned is well ahead. However, it's all moot as imo he breached the code and called time on his city career.

The pertinent point here is that Bobby should have realised in Jan that with no Vinny or Kolo, he was exposed, not good enough and that a decent centre half was needed.

Maybe he asked the board to buy a center half and they said no? They said no to stumping up the cash for De Rossi by all accounts.

More likely I think Mancini just hoped he could get through January with Vince and Lescott both available and then Kolo would be back for cover. In hinsight the best thing to do would have been to play Richards at CB in Vinnys absence but he went for Savic and tried him and it didnt really work.

At the start of the season I would probably have thought thats Vinny, Lescott, Kolo and Savic would have been enough to see us through the season with few problems at CB.