Mancini has to go?

[brite blu sky]

Oh, not many people piping up he should still go now.

Just wait until the next defeat or draw.

Or narrow win...

Or misplaced pass...

Question for you all

Was is or was it not reasonable to discuss the managers position following the run of form up to and including the Arsenal game?

The key word here is reasonable. Discussing the manager is fine obviously at any point.

Th question I would put is do posters think that the discussion was reasonable? My own take is that it was mixed between reasoned analysis and reaction based in disappointment. Fair dos I suppose, but for me it was not a large step to have seen that the players Mancini put out were always capable of the performances we have seen and required. The problem was not tactical or selection. That is my view so a lot of comment was unreasonable imo as it simply targeted Bob as the root of all evil. It doesn't work like that, players have also to take responsibility.
I will add that in adversity most will look for the easy answer or scapegoat in anything. That's how mob rule starts off. The ones that try to see the wood for the trees and get to the real nub of a problem are imo the ones that in general take us all forwards... if they don't get beaten to death by a gang of angry villagers first!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You don't often talk bollox Ted but you have savic myopia. The goal at loftus rd was Micah's fault.
Kolo is far scarier and shakier.

Which coming from you is hilarious.

Cough ... Martin Petrov ... cough.

Ahhh. Yes, But. . . . . I was right ;-)

[paulmclaren]

After the4 season were having if Mancini is sacked it will be a joke to say the least.
Year upon year we have improved x10, next season will be the big test.

[Tokyo Blue]

You don't often talk bollox Ted but you have savic myopia. The goal at loftus rd was Micah's fault.
Kolo is far scarier and shakier.

Which coming from you is hilarious.

Cough ... Martin Petrov ... cough.

Ahhh. Yes, But. . . . . I was right ;-)

Really? ;-)

[Ted Hughes]

The key word here is reasonable. Discussing the manager is fine obviously at any point.

Th question I would put is do posters think that the discussion was reasonable? My own take is that it was mixed between reasoned analysis and reaction based in disappointment. Fair dos I suppose, but for me it was not a large step to have seen that the players Mancini put out were always capable of the performances we have seen and required. The problem was not tactical or selection. That is my view so a lot of comment was unreasonable imo as it simply targeted Bob as the root of all evil. It doesn't work like that, players have also to take responsibility.
I will add that in adversity most will look for the easy answer or scapegoat in anything. That's how mob rule starts off. The ones that try to see the wood for the trees and get to the real nub of a problem are imo the ones that in general take us all forwards... if they don't get beaten to death by a gang of angry villagers first!

There are just as many 'angry villagers' ready to jump on people who have the opposite opinion.

Mancini (and Vinny Kompany) have made the point about the importance of these last few games. the response from the players has been exactly what was required. Had it been that the players responded badly, Mancini's job would have been close to untenable imo.

It wasn't so cut & dried as you are suggesting.

And keeping the manager is a much easier answer than sacking him, which would have been very difficult.

[brite blu sky]

Personally I think it was absolutely blatantly obvious. Slowly but surely the players clammed up, the pressure started to tell and they bottled it. That doesn't mean I don't think that Bob had a part to play in that or that ultimately it is his job too sort out. My argument would be that it is easier said than done. If it was a science then Slur would never have problems with his players feeling the pressure, and that isn't the case. Bottom line for me is that a manager can only do so much, after that it is down to the players.

When I don't see that in discussions I read it that people are just looking for scapegoats and someone to blame.

[Ted Hughes]

Personally I think it was absolutely blatantly obvious. Slowly but surely the players clammed up, the pressure started to tell and they bottled it. That doesn't mean I don't think that Bob had a part to play in that or that ultimately it is his job too sort out. My argument would be that it is easier said than done. If it was a science then Slur would never have problems with his players feeling the pressure, and that isn't the case. Bottom line for me is that a manager can only do so much, after that it is down to the players.

When I don't see that in discussions I read it that people are just looking for scapegoats and someone to blame.

If you were given fortunes to spend & signed, Kolarov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Savic & Milner & find you can't trust any of them not to let you down, it's your fault.

The notion that one should only praise the manager when things go to plan & not mention obvious mistakes when they don't, is nonsense. Some see plenty of mistakes but want him to stay on & learn from them, some just want him gone & others pretend he never gets anything wrong.

[Socrates]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

[carl_feedthegoat]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

[Swales4ever]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

This.
I have visions of Paddy Vieira training for the DoF job, tho.

[Socrates]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

You don't know what Bob wanted any more than I do you buffoon. Khaldoon and Mansour will have those facts and only they can make that judgement. I have a feeling Marwood will be shown the door quite soon but that is just my hunch, no more than that.

[Swales4ever]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

not to dismiss the point you are making - which has some merit - but Mancini had public stated more than once his pissing at the inability of caregivers officers to get David Luiz (for LB, mind!) instead of Kolarov, one season and Sanchez instead of Nasri the next one. when you aim to be top of the world, everyone must be up for....

[brite blu sky]

Personally I think it was absolutely blatantly obvious. Slowly but surely the players clammed up, the pressure started to tell and they bottled it. That doesn't mean I don't think that Bob had a part to play in that or that ultimately it is his job too sort out. My argument would be that it is easier said than done. If it was a science then Slur would never have problems with his players feeling the pressure, and that isn't the case. Bottom line for me is that a manager can only do so much, after that it is down to the players.

When I don't see that in discussions I read it that people are just looking for scapegoats and someone to blame.

If you were given fortunes to spend & signed, Kolarov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Savic & Milner & find you can't trust any of them not to let you down, it's your fault.

The notion that one should only praise the manager when things go to plan & not mention obvious mistakes when they don't, is nonsense. Some see plenty of mistakes but want him to stay on & learn from them, some just want him gone & others pretend he never gets anything wrong.

He makes mistakes, I've never said he doesn't. There is simply a limit to what he can influence or do. He takes the ultimate responsibility so players like Balotelli are a high risk.

I notice that your list of players doesn't include Silva, Nasri, Aguero. They also have not performed as they can as have Barry, Hart imo, Kompany, Yaya, DeJong. Bar Micah, Clichy and Lescott and maybe Zabba I'd say the lot of them have underperformed and not done the simple stuff when it mattered.
It isn't about him trusting only the players he has bought it is about developing a team or more precisely a squad... he has to trust them all to do the basics at the very least.
His biggest mistake this season is not to realise that the team had not developed enough self awareness to pull its socks up when required. I'd also say that not one of the players stood up and took it upon themselves to demand that on the pitch, Yaya got the closest to trying but got petulant with it. Now Mancini cannot demand that leadership, it has to emerge.

Now if you cannot see those kinds of nuances and think in black and white then there is nothing more I can add.

[carl_feedthegoat]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

You don't what Bob wanted any more than I do you buffoon. Khaldoon and Mansour will have those facts and only they can make that judgement. I have a feeling Marwood will be shown the door quite soon but that is just my hunch, no more than that.

You just said " Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say" and then you say "You don't know what Bob wanted any more than I do"

Your a fuckign idiot....he wanted them players and said so.

[Ted Hughes]

Personally I think it was absolutely blatantly obvious. Slowly but surely the players clammed up, the pressure started to tell and they bottled it. That doesn't mean I don't think that Bob had a part to play in that or that ultimately it is his job too sort out. My argument would be that it is easier said than done. If it was a science then Slur would never have problems with his players feeling the pressure, and that isn't the case. Bottom line for me is that a manager can only do so much, after that it is down to the players.

When I don't see that in discussions I read it that people are just looking for scapegoats and someone to blame.

If you were given fortunes to spend & signed, Kolarov, Dzeko, Balotelli, Savic & Milner & find you can't trust any of them not to let you down, it's your fault.

The notion that one should only praise the manager when things go to plan & not mention obvious mistakes when they don't, is nonsense. Some see plenty of mistakes but want him to stay on & learn from them, some just want him gone & others pretend he never gets anything wrong.

He makes mistakes, I've never said he doesn't. There is simply a limit to what he can influence or do. He takes the ultimate responsibility so players like Balotelli are a high risk.

I notice that your list of players doesn't include Silva, Nasri, Aguero. They also have not performed as they can as have Barry, Hart imo, Kompany, Yaya, DeJong. Bar Micah, Clichy and Lescott and maybe Zabba I'd say the lot of them have underperformed and not done the simple stuff when it mattered.
It isn't about him trusting only the players he has bought it is about developing a team or more precisely a squad... he has to trust them all to do the basics at the very least.
His biggest mistake this season is not to realise that the team had not developed enough self awareness to pull its socks up when required. I'd also say that not one of the players stood up and took it upon themselves to demand that on the pitch, Yaya got the closest to trying but got petulant with it. Now Mancini cannot demand that leadership, it has to emerge.

Now if you cannot see those kinds of nuances and think in black and white then there is nothing more I can add.

I can see that those players have to perform every week or we are fucked because the other signings are either not good enough or the manager can't get them to play. Either way, that is his fault.

[Socrates]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

You don't what Bob wanted any more than I do you buffoon. Khaldoon and Mansour will have those facts and only they can make that judgement. I have a feeling Marwood will be shown the door quite soon but that is just my hunch, no more than that.

You just said " Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say" and then you say "You don't know what Bob wanted any more than I do"

Your a fuckign idiot....he wanted them players and said so.

But where they his first choices? He has hinted otherwise. Anyway, I'm not the one being ridiculously critical of a season in which we have dropped only 2 points at home and are going to finish well above 80 points so I'm not the fucking idiot.

[Beefymcfc]

So, do we want him sacked then?

[carl_feedthegoat]

It's not like the old days though Ted. Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say, to some extent the DoF and CEO also have to take the blame if we haven't got Bob's first choice targets or have paid too much for players we have bought.

Bob wanted those players and the club got him those players...he is to blame and the only one to blame if they do not produce the goods.

Srop trying to palm off the blame onto other people.....fucking finger pointer..thats what Mexicans are..it was his fault..no it was his fault..anyones fault but mine.

You don't what Bob wanted any more than I do you buffoon. Khaldoon and Mansour will have those facts and only they can make that judgement. I have a feeling Marwood will be shown the door quite soon but that is just my hunch, no more than that.

You just said " Bob has a say in who is signed and for how much but only a say" and then you say "You don't know what Bob wanted any more than I do"

Your a fuckign idiot....he wanted them players and said so.

But where they his first choices? He has hinted otherwise. Anyway, I'm not the one being ridiculously critical of a season in which we have dropped only 2 points at home and are going to finish well above 80 points so I'm not the fucking idiot.

He told us his targets and made it fuckign crystal clear..and we signed them.

I am critical when we play shite and always have been no matter whos at the helm..unlike you I can do U turns when Im wrong....I ALWAYS said that as long as we played like we "wanted to win the league" for the remaining games (prior to the shambles against Sunderland and a Criminal effort and tactics against Arsenal) then I will support Mancini next season even if we come in second this season - Mancini has been praised and critisized by open minded fans like me during the season..you on the other hand either stay away from the board when we play shit or you just plain refuse to critisize him when its warrented.

The last 2 games have shown me that we do have the desire to want to win this prem and his tactics and non tinkering has supported that.....which is a first for a long time.

[Ted Hughes]

Hardly any managers can get most positions on the team filled with 1st choices, not even Barca & Real Madrid.

All managers have to deal with that & the skill is in making it work. Bob has got one of the most fortunate positions in world football when it comes to that, so excuses won't wash.

He has done a lot of things right & he has also made mistakes. You will se him try to rectify those mistakes as time goes on. If they weren't mistakes, he wouldn't be rectifying them, but you can bet he will, because he knows they are mistakes.

[Swales4ever]

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