How to win the league?

[Ted Hughes]

I hope they do try and park the bus the way it looks to me is that most teams do that at our place anyway and we can cope with it well .It's a nice big pitch and there is plenty of space that teams do not have enough to cover no matter how defnsive they get.As for the barcodes game as long as we keep the majority of the ball I think we will win.Like a few have said its when we stop attacking we have problems.

I don't mind if the rags park the bus. I think we'll still create chances & then it's down to whether we stick them away. We have to be a lot smarter not to get caught on the break though. Last time, their 1st was such an absolutely basic, obvious, move, it just shouldn't have ended in a goal. We did have Kolarov at left back at the time though.

If they do park the bus, they have a big problem. That team has a natural inclination to attack, they simply don't play for draws so as a result I feel if they do try and park the bus, there will be mistakes made which will be the undoing of them.

If they turn up at ours to play for a draw and don't get it - watch the satanic hordes turn on their manager

I don't buy it. They will attack - which will create gaps. I think they are fucked whatever they do though to be honest, and deep down I think their supporters know it.

In recent years, since we became unshit, Ferguson's tactics at our place have been to go for a solid look in the midfield & generally try to play on the counter. They didn't get a kick before they scored in the cup game, which is what we have to be careful of.

[Ted Hughes]

Newcastle are the form team at the moment winning 6/6 of their last games. Playing at st James is an added burden, to me that's at least as hard as the scum at home. Winning both of those games is a huge ask.

Taking the bookies as a neutral view city are 7/4 and scum 1/2 for the title,

So to win the title I reckon there is a high probability that we need Swansea or Sunderland to do us a favour

I don't think they will take 6 points off Swansea & Sunderland (well, not without outside help).

I agree that Newcastle is just as tough a game in theory but that is assuming that Newcastle's game stands up to the pressure of expectation, something none of our teams since 1976 has managed to do at our place until last season v Spurs.

[Sideshow Bob]

i've not seen anyone mention the fact that rags could still pip us even if we win all 3. they'd need to overturn at least a +7 GD in their last 2 games, so it's very, very unlikely, but not mathematically impossible...

Actually they'd need to overturn a +10 GD.

We currently have a +6 GD and if we win each of our 3 games at least 1-0, it'll become +9, plus United will lose at least 1 goal because we've just beaten them.

They will need some serious support from the FA and the refs to overturn that in 2 games!!!

my math was dodgy and you and ted are absolutely correct. nevertheless, if they crush swansea 7-1, and we eek out a couple of 1-0's against them and toon, that final week could get interesting.

[Ted Hughes]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

[Mingchester Mingy]

i've not seen anyone mention the fact that rags could still pip us even if we win all 3. they'd need to overturn at least a +7 GD in their last 2 games, so it's very, very unlikely, but not mathematically impossible...

Actually they'd need to overturn a +10 GD.

We currently have a +6 GD and if we win each of our 3 games at least 1-0, it'll become +9, plus United will lose at least 1 goal because we've just beaten them.

They will need some serious support from the FA and the refs to overturn that in 2 games!!!

my math was dodgy and you and ted are absolutely correct. nevertheless, if they crush swansea 7-1, and we eek out a couple of 1-0's against them and toon, that final week could get interesting.

Im callin' this now.....Swansea Wins Vs United 2-1.

[Sideshow Bob]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

to overturn the GD, they'll have to score far more goals than us in the final 2 games, so the +1 GF (or +2 after the derby) is a non-issue, i think.

[Ted Hughes]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

to overturn the GD, they'll have to score far more goals than us in the final 2 games, so the +1 GF (or +2 after the derby) is a non-issue, i think.

No, I mean total goals 'for' over the whole season.

How do they decide it if both teams finish with the exact same goal difference ?

If we both finished with the same goal difference but we had scored, say 90 goals & they had scored 85, would we get the title due to having scored more goals ?

[Nigels Tackle]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

to overturn the GD, they'll have to score far more goals than us in the final 2 games, so the +1 GF (or +2 after the derby) is a non-issue, i think.

No, I mean total goals 'for' over the whole season.

How do they decide it if both teams finish with the exact same goal difference ?

If we both finished with the same goal difference but we had scored, say 90 goals & they had scored 85, would we get the title due to having scored more goals ?

pretty sure it's goals scored but it may be alphabetical order?

[Sideshow Bob]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

to overturn the GD, they'll have to score far more goals than us in the final 2 games, so the +1 GF (or +2 after the derby) is a non-issue, i think.

No, I mean total goals 'for' over the whole season.

How do they decide it if both teams finish with the exact same goal difference ?

If we both finished with the same goal difference but we had scored, say 90 goals & they had scored 85, would we get the title due to having scored more goals ?

yes, that's what i was referring to. currently, we've scored 1 more goal (over the entire season) than rags. if we beat them by only 1 goal in the derby, they'll need to score at least 2 more than us over the last 2 matches. but if they somehow managed to overturn the +8 (or +10) GD, they'd logically have to have scored a lot more goals than us in those last 2 weeks, so GF is really a non-issue.

[halnone]

do we play newcastle before the rags play Swansea?

Whoever plays first has a mental advantage in my opinion as they won't be playing catch up.

EDIT: Assuming we beat the rags first....

[Nigels Tackle]

do we play newcastle before the rags play Swansea?

Whoever plays first has a mental advantage in my opinion as they won't be playing catch up.

we play newcastle @ 1330 and then united play swansea @ 1600 on the 6th may...

[brite blu sky]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

[Ted Hughes]

If the goal differences ended up equal, is it the case that the team who has scored the most wins the title ?

In which case they'd need an extra goal.

to overturn the GD, they'll have to score far more goals than us in the final 2 games, so the +1 GF (or +2 after the derby) is a non-issue, i think.

No, I mean total goals 'for' over the whole season.

How do they decide it if both teams finish with the exact same goal difference ?

If we both finished with the same goal difference but we had scored, say 90 goals & they had scored 85, would we get the title due to having scored more goals ?

yes, that's what i was referring to. currently, we've scored 1 more goal (over the entire season) than rags. if we beat them by only 1 goal in the derby, they'll need to score at least 2 more than us over the last 2 matches. but if they somehow managed to overturn the +8 (or +10) GD, they'd logically have to have scored a lot more goals than us in those last 2 weeks, so GF is really a non-issue.

Ah right sorry.

[Ted Hughes]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

Please don't get us going on the Arsenal game again, he didn't put Tevez on until it was over. I don't think you'll find many City fans anywhere who think that was good management & I bet if you asked Bob now, he'd agree he fucked up.

It's a very fine line between playing like we did at Norwich & like we did at Arsenal & one of the main differences is having a new fresh world class player to boost the team. We're still fragile even with him. He was the main person who kept it together v Wolves when Silva, Yaya etc were slipping back into their shells.

If it's only down to the players & the manager can't do anything when he has a bench most would die for, he isn't good enough.

[Swales4ever]

Attack Attack Attack.

triffffic! .... :-))))

[Swales4ever]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

Please don't get us going on the Arsenal game again, he didn't put Tevez on until it was over. I don't think you'll find many City fans anywhere who think that was good management & I bet if you asked Bob now, he'd agree he fucked up.

It's a very fine line between playing like we did at Norwich & like we did at Arsenal & one of the main differences is having a new fresh world class player to boost the team. We're still fragile even with him. He was the main person who kept it together v Wolves when Silva, Yaya etc were slipping back into their shells.

If it's only down to the players & the manager can't do anything when he has a bench most would die for, he isn't good enough.

whatsoever level of fitness Tevez was on two week ago, and only the management staff is aware of that, neither Messi would have changed that match if surrounded by that level of desire and application ...

mind, I don't even dare to use the word comittment, as it's simply been a momentary lapse of reason, so much widespread that I happened to think whether the players were considering to do an AVB to Mancini.

[Im_Spartacus]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

Please don't get us going on the Arsenal game again, he didn't put Tevez on until it was over. I don't think you'll find many City fans anywhere who think that was good management & I bet if you asked Bob now, he'd agree he fucked up.

It's a very fine line between playing like we did at Norwich & like we did at Arsenal & one of the main differences is having a new fresh world class player to boost the team. We're still fragile even with him. He was the main person who kept it together v Wolves when Silva, Yaya etc were slipping back into their shells.

If it's only down to the players & the manager can't do anything when he has a bench most would die for, he isn't good enough.

whatsoever level of fitness Tevez was on two week ago, and only the management staff is aware of that, neither Messi would have changed that match if surrounded by that level of desire and application ...

mind, I don't even dare to use the word comittment, as it's simply been a momentary lapse of reason, so much widespread that I happened to think whether the players were considering to do an AVB to Mancini.

If he wasnt fit, he wouldnt have played at all. If he was fit enough to be on the bench, he was certainly fit enough to do more than 5 minutes.

[Swales4ever]

that is indisputable.
still I stand firm in the believe that he/it would have changed anything on that day. giving what we saw.

though I have no problem in agreeing that a manager is paid a shitload of money to carrying on plenty of duties, including to serve as a good moan target for one of those days.

[david yearsley]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

Please don't get us going on the Arsenal game again, he didn't put Tevez on until it was over. I don't think you'll find many City fans anywhere who think that was good management & I bet if you asked Bob now, he'd agree he fucked up.

It's a very fine line between playing like we did at Norwich & like we did at Arsenal & one of the main differences is having a new fresh world class player to boost the team. We're still fragile even with him. He was the main person who kept it together v Wolves when Silva, Yaya etc were slipping back into their shells.

If it's only down to the players & the manager can't do anything when he has a bench most would die for, he isn't good enough.

I actually thought yesterday in the second half that Bob had clearly failed to get through to the players the importance of the situation. The amount of ambling about by certain players was ridiculously conspicuous. I was fuclin fuming. Anymore of that and we can kiss it a less than fond audieu

[brite blu sky]

I thought the answer to the OP was José ?

The derby. pretty much as mentioned already and as previously, Park will play and they will adopt a 5 man mid, try to contain us and hit fast.
I don't see it as a complex game and I believe that City have been there before many times this season. I don't believe they have it in their locker to try anything different and caution will rule the day with slur.
We will outscore them basically. But I also have a sneeky feeling that Bob and the players will keep a cautious reserve throughout the game and look to keep a clean sheet. If we have that front 4 out we can afford to do that and basically have a bit more disconnection between the front 4 and the rest of the team. I would go for Barry for 60mins with specific instructions not to pile too far forward, and Nige behind him. Yaya for Barry as an when - 60mins probs.

The other games for them. Now both very difficult games, They will make heavy weather of unpicking Swansea, something I think they would do easily prior to Everton. They will underperform and end up in a really difficult game they clearly are not enjoying. Still think they will nick a win though just.
Sunderland. Confidence low not looking forward to it and knowing they have to win it. They will actually play well and not get anything. a draw.

City's other games. We have the ability to win both the last two... I'm just not convinced the players have learnt enough not to clam up. For all those blaming Mancini for the Arse performance, that is categorically wrong, it is the players and only the players.
If I were Bob in these last games I'd keep some real powder dry. Mainly Yaya, but possibly even Tevez. It might sound daft to some but City's biggest problem by far in the last two games is going to be our own players mentality and nothing else. I'd go for having someone on the bench that can lift the whole team by coming on.

Please don't get us going on the Arsenal game again, he didn't put Tevez on until it was over. I don't think you'll find many City fans anywhere who think that was good management & I bet if you asked Bob now, he'd agree he fucked up.

It's a very fine line between playing like we did at Norwich & like we did at Arsenal & one of the main differences is having a new fresh world class player to boost the team. We're still fragile even with him. He was the main person who kept it together v Wolves when Silva, Yaya etc were slipping back into their shells.

If it's only down to the players & the manager can't do anything when he has a bench most would die for, he isn't good enough.

I predicted not long after the start of the season that the team would start to struggle as things got serious. I have said the same thing consistently throughout the season, that the initial burst would evaporate as they tried too hard to reproduce it. I doubt anyone actually understood what the fucl I was going on about, as no-one questioned or pulled me up on that view.

I have that view because I have worked for over 20 years as a consultant on human process.. basically getting fucked up knobs in high level jobs to come down to earth and start thinking and acting like real people and engaging with what is around them instead of stuck up their own tight arses. We call it facilitating innovation process. It basically amounts to removing blocks. Blocks created by doing what you think you are supposed to do instead of doing what your intuition tells you to do.
I can only second guess what is happening at a football club that I am not involved with personally.. but even second guessing I can have an opinion based on observing over time and my understanding of group behavior and what I see in front of me.
I am very serious about my opinion that what we have seen in recent poor performances at City is primarily down to the players and not Mancini, if you dont like to hear that, that's your prob not mine.
As I have said all season it is inevitable that the easy nature of the performances would give way to a stilted 'trying too hard to make it work and not getting it', type performances. Those are only broken by a crisis of no options that mentally creates a fuck it attitude.
I have seen it happen so many times, in fact it is part of the process. ( i think there are greek myths written about the same thing - it is as old as humanity )
We have seen exactly that imo.

Further to this I started a thread asking what character City had..or if it wasn't yet defined. I wasn't sure of anything at the time. Now I'm starting to think that it is 'Hard Headed' ie. up its own arse and learns slowly because of that; does things its own way; stubborn.
But hey that is a good trait for winners.. stressful to have to manage though.