How Will It Affect United?

[Ted Hughes]

Four or five years ago, I expected and predicted their fall from grace. It never happened or did it?

I know they have consistently won trophies and made major finals but the week by week quality of their play has generally diminished.
They got away with being shit in the 1st season by the fact that Tranaldo scored so many and rescued so many games from either defeat or draw. He saved them so many points they didn't deserve.

When he went, I rubbed my hands with glee only tp watch as Shrek did the same. So many goals, so many points, so undeserved as a fair reflection of their play.

I don't think they have been anywhere near the best team in England for a number of years but they have always had that ability to find a goal or two and even a goal scorer or two. Over recent seasons, their cgances/goals ratio must be amazing.

As time goes on, it will become harder and harder to keep this up. They need replacements fast. Scholes,Giggs, Plug, Carrick, and others cannot go on for everand we saw last Monday how in the derby, Taggart was reduced to tactical suicide. An open and public admission to the football World that they couldn't compete with us.

It will be tougher for them next season. They may be somewhere near the top but they are not the force to fear.

I don't buy the tactical suicide comment. It's being spouted by media, pundits and disappointed scum fans, but all forget the main point: it was bacon face best shot at success.

Sure, we owned the game, but it could easily have been a very frustrating 0-0 draw for us. And had United played their usual 4-4-2 they might have had a chance of scoring a goal, but we would have absolutely murdered them, scoring many more.

This is absolutely true BUT leaving out Valencia was utter shite management from the tramp.

[john68]

Noolie Mate,
Have you learned nothing about being a biased Blue. You don't have to believe it, just ensure that the rags do. "TACTICAL SUICIDE".
Tell enough rags enough times and one of the daft twats will believe you and spread the word to his mates.

[Beefymcfc]

Noolie Mate,
Have you learned nothing about being a biased Blue. You don't have to believe it, just ensure that the rags do. "TACTICAL SUICIDE".
Tell enough rags enough times and one of the daft twats will believe you and spread the word to his mates.

Well, all the ones I know must be thick as mince, they all believe it.

[ant london]

It will be very interesting (esp in light of the impending arrival of FFP) as in my view there are a few teams who need to do some major spending this summer: Chelsea, United, Arsenal all need to spend some money and quite a bit of it. Arsenal probably won't spend that much (but on the basis that I can't see them having the usual "MCFC summer transfer subsidy" this year, their net spend will likely be their highest for quite some time).

All will spend and re-group and I think we will have stronger competition from several teams (rather than just united) than this season. The plus side of that is that the scum won't steamroller quite as many sides so their pressure may ease slightly

They will be there or thereabouts though

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I thought their decline would be more rapid, but it is quite clearly happening.
Chelsea, Arse (Spesh if Van Persie goes) and Filth all need to spend.
Funnily enough if Filth had got Wesley I think they would have been a lot stronger.
Will Arse smash their wage structure to retain their elite place or risk a Liverpool type fall?
How much are Chelsea willing to spend considering they are keen supporters of FFP?
Can Spurs and Newcastle maintain a challenge?
There is no doubt that our emergence as a force, coupled with decent efforts from those two clubs has put a real spanner in the works for the cosy top four.

[Dipstick]

You can bet that if they don't spend big this summer then Wooney will be off.

[Bianchi on Ice]

By all means let them spunk more borrowed cash on cabbages like jones and smalling. This time though their sycophants in the media see the winds of change, finally, and will turn their gaze fully on the reality rather than the myth. Which is they cannot compete for the top players and they dont like it...NOBODY with half a brain is willing to buy their bullshit anymore. If rooney falls short of 20 goals they will start to drop the points that reflects their true capability as a team.

[spiny]

It is hard to believe that Liverpool were runners up as recently as 2009. As a result, great things were predicted for them for 2009/2010 in the media, whilst ignoring the number of 1-0 and last gasp victories that had carried them through. A small shift in goals scored and against has since made a big difference and seen them quickly drop out of the top four. It will be hard for them to get back. They need to invest heavily, their revenues are declining and have found that it is prospects of trophies and rewards that attracts top players, and not history.

The rags are still a very good team but could find themselves in a similar situation. City are a team on the up, full of top players. United need to add several top players or could find themselves on the way down. Most of their exerienced players are near the end of the careers and will need replacing. Same with their manager. Debts still need to be serviced. It will be hard to stop a slide if it starts, as Liverpool have found.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Remember the Gary Neville article where he said that if we win, we get the 'Authority', as he put it. This is another affect that may take them down a peg or two.

What we've also noticed is how teams are now pushing United. The likes of Fulham, Wigan and Everton spring to mind and they all did very well, Fulham only losing by a solitary goal but pushed them all the way.Are cracks starting to appear, especially after Taggart's outburst to Mancini. That filters down to the players as well.

That's the bug difference I've noticed this year. While they have been deadly with their schedule, when you've actually watched the games there's been less and less "roll over and die" attitude. Teams are starting to challenge them even at the swamp which used to be unheard of. THAT is the major change and will benefit us in the future.

Generally I agree with MRM though. They will be challenging next year again. And I do expect them to spend some serious money in summer.

[Beefymcfc]

It is hard to believe that Liverpool were runners up as recently as 2009. As a result, great things were predicted for them for 2009/2010 in the media, whilst ignoring the number of 1-0 and last gasp victories that had carried them through. A small shift in goals scored and against has since made a big difference and seen them quickly drop out of the top four. It will be hard for them to get back. They need to invest heavily, their revenues are declining and have found that it is prospects of trophies and rewards that attracts top players, and not history.

The rags are still a very good team but could find themselves in a similar situation. City are a team on the up, full of top players. United need to add several top players or could find themselves on the way down. Most of their exerienced players are near the end of the careers and will need replacing. Same with their manager. Debts still need to be serviced. It will be hard to stop a slide if it starts, as Liverpool have found.

During that season I honestly thought that there was so much of a set-up that it became obvious. When they played us at home and we had Zab's sent off when we were 2-1 up. I totally disagreed with the decision and they went on to win in extra-time. The strange thing there was that they also had an oppo player sent off either side of our games and played about 10 games that season against 10 men. I think they had players sent off against them in a lot of the top games against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and the Rags, also against Everton and was that the season where Lescott was dragged down in the box with no penalty given?

I think everyone though Liverpool would challenge again but their off-pitch struggles with the takeover fucked them up but one thing I noticed was that when it all started coming out they didn't get the decisions that they got the season prior, possibly dropped like a stinking turd by the powers that be.

I can't see United going that way but I'm sure the PL et al will be monitoring their situation, just in case.

[patrickblue]

By all means let them spunk more borrowed cash on cabbages like jones and smalling. This time though their sycophants in the media see the winds of change, finally, and will turn their gaze fully on the reality rather than the myth. Which is they cannot compete for the top players and they dont like it...NOBODY with half a brain is willing to buy their bullshit anymore. If rooney falls short of 20 goals they will start to drop the points that reflects their true capability as a team.

Ees simple. Any player would jump at the chance to play for Manure. You know this is true, because Sir Bacon said so.
The b******ds have been found out at last :)

[mcfc1632]

It is hard to believe that Liverpool were runners up as recently as 2009. As a result, great things were predicted for them for 2009/2010 in the media, whilst ignoring the number of 1-0 and last gasp victories that had carried them through. A small shift in goals scored and against has since made a big difference and seen them quickly drop out of the top four. It will be hard for them to get back. They need to invest heavily, their revenues are declining and have found that it is prospects of trophies and rewards that attracts top players, and not history.

The rags are still a very good team but could find themselves in a similar situation. City are a team on the up, full of top players. United need to add several top players or could find themselves on the way down. Most of their exerienced players are near the end of the careers and will need replacing. Same with their manager. Debts still need to be serviced. It will be hard to stop a slide if it starts, as Liverpool have found.

During that season I honestly thought that there was so much of a set-up that it became obvious. When they played us at home and we had Zab's sent off when we were 2-1 up. I totally disagreed with the decision and they went on to win in extra-time. The strange thing there was that they also had an oppo player sent off either side of our games and played about 10 games that season against 10 men. I think they had players sent off against them in a lot of the top games against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and the Rags, also against Everton and was that the season where Lescott was dragged down in the box with no penalty given?

I think everyone though Liverpool would challenge again but their off-pitch struggles with the takeover fucked them up but one thing I noticed was that when it all started coming out they didn't get the decisions that they got the season prior, possibly dropped like a stinking turd by the powers that be.

I can't see United going that way but I'm sure the PL et al will be monitoring their situation, just in case.

I will be very interested to see who is appointed to ref our and to a degree theirgame on Sunday - It cannot be Webb as he was used against Newcastle, but what betting Foy, Atkinson or Twattenburg??

[brite blu sky]

Already there have been subtle but definite changes, maybe just of attitude so far. Questions are openly being asked by the media and a fair amount of criticism levelled at them. Evra obviously felt the need to come out and say the club wouldn't crumble. All signs of something no doubt, but until they fall short in reinforcing this summer it is all hot air. See what they get to spend and who they manage to get.

Another point raised is Shrek.. they are heavily relying on his continued form. I'd say he is about 70-30 to return from the Euros completely jaded again. I think I'm near the mark to assume he has has poorer seasons after flopping on the international stage. If that happened again they could be struggling even more.
I rekon the only real danger to them would be if they didn't make top 4, the press would throw their toys out and it would all get very messy.

Safe to say they will somehow manage to do just enough.. get just enough money, just about good enough players etc etc.

But also as John68 points out their support is slipping, no waiting list anymore... basically they have lost their shine.. It is not as interesting watching teams grind out or nick results... That is where the mass following and sympathy is directed - attractive gallant football. One of the reasons Chelsea never captured the popular imagination despite scoring lots of goals.
City have that shinyness and it will pull people to us. The rags have lost it or thrown it away and are now a bunch of ugly bad tempered strugglers who just know how to win. No romance no excitement no flair no poise no elegence.. just shit to watch.

[Rag_hater]

I think the fuckers will manage to borrow whatever they need too, like they have in the past and therefore keep their place behind us, they can't compete with us anymore but can with every other fucker.If everybody in power is as bent as is the suspicion then surely the fuckers have nothing to worry about.

[spiny]

But also as John68 points out their support is slipping, no waiting list anymore... basically they have lost their shine.. It is not as interesting watching teams grind out or nick results... That is where the mass following and sympathy is directed - attractive gallant football. One of the reasons Chelsea never captured the popular imagination despite scoring lots of goals.
City have that shinyness and it will pull people to us. The rags have lost it or thrown it away and are now a bunch of ugly bad tempered strugglers who just know how to win. No romance no excitement no flair no poise no elegence.. just shit to watch.

Our progress will eat into their support. Success and rivalry will fuel this. We can expect a rapid growth in the City fanbase will be at the expense of the rags both inside and outside Manchester. Success always brings new and young supporters. Look back to how many people started to follow Leeds, Liverpool, rags, Arsenal, Chelsea as a result of their glory days.

For the first time we have exciting world famous players like Silva, Yaya, Aguero, Tevez, Balotelli as well as home grown heroes. The rags are left with Rooney, Mushy Pea and home grown products Giggs and Scholes, both pushing towards 40. Hardly idols for a new generation or converts to the game. This season their myth has been exposed by teams in Europe and in England. At the same time City's reputation for skill, power and excitement has grown. Our results and exposure has been good and we will only get better.

[13021J]

All that being said if they manage to float on the Singapore stock exchange this could effectively wipe out the debt. This would free up most of the interest payment cash flows for the squad. Under FFP I don't think we could compete just yet.

Don't write them off, just believe that we can always do better.

[Im_Spartacus]

All that being said if they manage to float on the Singapore stock exchange this could effectively wipe out the debt. This would free up most of the interest payment cash flows for the squad. Under FFP I don't think we could compete just yet.

Don't write them off, just believe that we can always do better.

Thats not true though, and fundamentally it seems people misunderstand what a flotation means.m

Essentially the debt is replaced by equity (shares). To male those shares attractive, there has to be the promise of something in return. In reality, shares in a football club have never been worth a wank (except for united in the edwards era), and in this case i think the sort of prices being talked about ridiculously over value a club which faces the most critical period of transition in the last 25 years which could see the club drop into decline (bacons death or retirement).

But even so, lets say they raise the money they wanted, those new shareholders will want dividends. Those dividends have to come out of the profit. Dividends are interest by another means, so they will have reduced their net debt, but will still have to pay out substantial sums to keep the shareholders happy.

Thus, just because the debt isnt there any more, doesnt mean that the liabilities (what they have to pay out every year) is necessarily reduced that drastically

[john68]

Appreciate that explanation Mate. I knew that there was no such thing as free money but the rags seem convinced there is.

As an aside, A while ago, I picked up a guy who works for Deloitte in their football department. He had been looking at the rags income/expenditure/liabilities etc but told me he was having major difficulty with getting a clear picture of the Glazers finances concerning the rags.
He explained that it was difficult to find where their money was coming from, due to a huge paper trail that existed. One company borrowing from another company. The trail becoming more and more complex and difficlt to keep up with.

Any thoughts?

[john68]

On the matter of fans, marketing and merchandising, the rags have done us a huge favour.
It was they who were one of the pioneer clubs who went out to break the new markets globally and with a large amount of success. Their work helped build interest in the Premier League and create a demand for English football Worldwide.

Should they begin to fail, their core local fanbase will diminish but a hardcore will still remain loyal. The dander for them is their larger markets globally. That is where the glory hunters and the band wagon jumpers reside and that is where their markets will decrease more rapidly. It is also where City could explode and probably already are doing. Whether we like em or not, these new City fans will be a major income source for us.

...and much of it thanks to the efforts of our failing neighbours. :-)

[Im_Spartacus]

On the matter of fans, marketing and merchandising, the rags have done us a huge favour.
It was they who were one of the pioneer clubs who went out to break the new markets globally and with a large amount of success. Their work helped build interest in the Premier League and create a demand for English football Worldwide.

Should they begin to fail, their core local fanbase will diminish but a hardcore will still remain loyal. The dander for them is their larger markets globally. That is where the glory hunters and the band wagon jumpers reside and that is where their markets will decrease more rapidly. It is also where City could explode and probably already are doing. Whether we like em or not, these new City fans will be a major income source for us.

...and much of it thanks to the efforts of our failing neighbours. :-)

Quite true John, and whilst we may talk of fickle foreign fans, I can use Spain as a perfect example.

I have, over the course of the last few years bought Real Madrid and Barcelona replica shirts. Not through any sense of support for either club, but because at one time or other I liked that particular shirt.

When looking at the fact that the Premier League is a global product and that Manchester United were in many ways pioneers for taking the game to the far east, the other popular teams or the teams who are winning something will prosper by proxy in the same way.

Some will go further than wearing the shirt and end up as long term supporters of the club. What we need to do is to be marketed abroad in such a way that we are cool, new, happening, and have the opportunity of taking a whole generation of fans from Manchester United globally.