So back to the stadium question

[john@staustell]

So. I believe we have sold out every home game for home fans at least, maybe with just one or two exceptions. Some games could have had 70,000, especially the last 2. Even mediocre games were sold out 2 or 3 weeks before the match date. The groundswell of support around the world is growing apace, as testified by Khaldoon in his interview. The demand has outstripped our current capacity and if we continue to meet the Sheik's 'targets' surely some action is imminent, as it takes a long time to build stands!

So after much debate, 700+ pages on BM, talk of raising the ends, raising the ends and then putting a 4th tier around etc etc, there is still really no word on this.

The owner stated 3 years ago that the aim was to be the biggest club in the world in every respect, so staying at 47000+ is inconceivable both for demand and revenue purposes.

My feeling is that he will want to outdo those at the Old Toilet if at all possible, but will it be done in stages? Will we have any announcement at all in the summer?

Coutesy of Ted I will remind everyone of Scum's figures pre-success. Sure this was pre-PL too, but it shows what is easily possible:

Rags attendances

Year........Tot Att......Highest.....Lowest.....Avgatt.......Avg empty spaces compared to capacity
80-81......946,491.....57,049......37,954.....45,071......11,000 +
81-82......935,983.....57,830......34,499.....44,570......13,000 +
82-83......872,602.....57,397......30,227.....41,552......15,000 +
83-84......893,211.....56,121......33,616.....42,533......13,000 +
84-85......900,504.....56,638......31,291.....42,881......13,000 +
85-86......972,757.....54,575......32,331.....46,321.......8,000 +
86-87......853,137.....54,103......31,686.....40,625......13,000 +.... Finish 11th (Ferguson takes over Nov)
87-88......784,331.....48,087......28,040.....39,216.......8,000 +... Signings inc Bruce, Anderson, McClair, Leighton
88-89......693,257.....46,377......23,368.....36,847.......9,000 +... Signings inc Hughes
89-90......742,475.....47,245......29,281.....39,077.......8,000 +... Signings inc Webb, Phelan, Ince, Pallister, Wallace
90-91......821,589.....47,485......32,776.....43,242.......4,000 +
91-92......944,678.....47,576......38,554.....44,985.......3,000 +

[Im_Spartacus]

I just posted similar to my reply in a similar thread.......

An extra 15000 seats would generate maybe another £10m in ticket revenue plus the obvious increase in catering.

But it is an utter myth about us selling out this year, and the club has a LOT of work to do over the summer to capitalise on being champions. Look at the official attendances and you will see that we appear to have had the sold out sign up most of the year.

However, even on sunday there were empty boxes and empty seats in the centre of the colin bell stand. The club has a huge job on to sell these tickets, not just for the big games, but for every game...........and they have been struggling.

I sit on the back row of l2 in the north stand. Behind me, under the scoreboard are seats which are always reserved right until the very last lot of tickets have sold. There are perhaps 300 seats up there (when taking into account both corners), which are only EVER full for the big games, and even then they are full of day trippers from abroad.

Im not sure whether these seats are kept back for supporters clubs, or people travelling specifically from abroad to see a game, but again, a large swathe of seats which dont sell regularly, and are often completely empty.

Then there are the many many season ticket holders who just dont go! The club needs to facilitate an exchange for fans wishing to sell their tickets, because this appears to be an increaseing problem. I know several people who live darn sarf who last season bought a season ticket and opted into the cup schemes so they guaranteed themselves tickets for the big matches. They have generally been unable to do anything with those tickets which means plenty of seats go empty.

The problem is, resolving these smaller issues is not going to be cost effective in the long run for the club, as the gains would be trivial. However i certainly dont advocate the the club builds extra seats in, which will inevitably involve more corporate sections which we already fail to sell now.

I dont think its time just yet

[patrickblue]

That big gap in the middle of the Colin Bell must be there for a reason, not just unsold.

[john@staustell]

I know what your saying Spartacus but we need to start now for 2 or 3 years time. In 12 months we could just be European Champs. The problem of STs not going is seen at OT and Emirates too. The higher the prices, the more (rich-ish) people want to buy their seat for their 2 or 3 games a year. I think there should be financial penalties for STs that are hardly ever scanned.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I just posted similar to my reply in a similar thread.......

An extra 15000 seats would generate maybe another £10m in ticket revenue plus the obvious increase in catering.

But it is an utter myth about us selling out this year, and the club has a LOT of work to do over the summer to capitalise on being champions. Look at the official attendances and you will see that we appear to have had the sold out sign up most of the year.

However, even on sunday there were empty boxes and empty seats in the centre of the colin bell stand. The club has a huge job on to sell these tickets, not just for the big games, but for every game...........and they have been struggling.

I sit on the back row of l2 in the north stand. Behind me, under the scoreboard are seats which are always reserved right until the very last lot of tickets have sold. There are perhaps 300 seats up there (when taking into account both corners), which are only EVER full for the big games, and even then they are full of day trippers from abroad.

Im not sure whether these seats are kept back for supporters clubs, or people travelling specifically from abroad to see a game, but again, a large swathe of seats which dont sell regularly, and are often completely empty.

Then there are the many many season ticket holders who just dont go! The club needs to facilitate an exchange for fans wishing to sell their tickets, because this appears to be an increaseing problem. I know several people who live darn sarf who last season bought a season ticket and opted into the cup schemes so they guaranteed themselves tickets for the big matches. They have generally been unable to do anything with those tickets which means plenty of seats go empty.

The problem is, resolving these smaller issues is not going to be cost effective in the long run for the club, as the gains would be trivial. However i certainly dont advocate the the club builds extra seats in, which will inevitably involve more corporate sections which we already fail to sell now.

I dont think its time just yet

The day trippers from abroad (and from other areas of course) are the ones who build expansion for. There hasn't been waiting list for season tickets eversince we moved out of Maine Road and the core that has season ticket will remain more or less same no matter how good or bad we are doing.

Tolerating day trippers (like myself) is the cost of success really.

[Im_Spartacus]

That big gap in the middle of the Colin Bell must be there for a reason, not just unsold.

I dunno mate, i was really surprised on sunday to see those seats empty.

A month or two ago, i counted over 25 boxes completely empty down the sides for a weekend league game, and it was even worse for the Europa league games. Its pretty clear that they are trying to sell most of these on a match by match basis, because they cannot interest enough companies in signing up for the season.

In reality, id wager that many of the other boxes at the club are owned by the players and do not generate revenue. It is entirely possible that we only actually sell 25% of the box tickets each week, which is a shocking state of affairs.

If the club want to expand the ground, it would be folly for them to do so without at least half of the expansion going towards hospitality tickets as thats where the £100+ tickets can be justified. But with an inability to sell the tickets now, you have to say, they are not likely to bang extra seats in at the moment that they know they cant sell at a premium price.

[Im_Spartacus]

The day trippers from abroad (and from other areas of course) are the ones who build expansion for. There hasn't been waiting list for season tickets eversince we moved out of Maine Road and the core that has season ticket will remain more or less same no matter how good or bad we are doing.

Tolerating day trippers (like myself) is the cost of success really.

Not saying theres an issue with it.......just that when its not a big game, these seats are usually empty.

We cant build an extra 10-15000 seats on the off chance that people will turn up for big games as happens presently, those seats have to be sold on a long term basis and a large percentage of them would not be made available to the normal fan anyway, they would be hospitality tickets.

[blues-clues]

For a while I was considering getting a box on Sunday. I have no idea what these things cost per person and I didn't pursue it too seriously but I couldn't see any info on the website about corporate tickets for the QPR game. I have never thought about a box before on a one off match basis but I am sure that when I have looked for tickets for games that have been sold out I have seen links to corporate tickets. So I don't know if the corporate was sold out on Sunday or not but if they had empty unpaid for seats and people were paying up to £1k on the black market to sit in the regular seats then someone at City needs to have a serious think about how they are selling and reselling tickets.

[Im_Spartacus]

For a while I was considering getting a box on Sunday. I have no idea what these things cost per person and I didn't pursue it too seriously but I couldn't see any info on the website about corporate tickets for the QPR game. I have never thought about a box before on a one off match basis but I am sure that when I have looked for tickets for games that have been sold out I have seen links to corporate tickets. So I don't know if the corporate was sold out on Sunday or not but if they had empty unpaid for seats and people were paying up to £1k on the black market to sit in the regular seats then someone at City needs to have a serious think about how they are selling and reselling tickets.

Its about 300 quid each for an 8 seat box normally, pr £35k a year if you are flush!

From time to time, usually cup games they used to have discounts, and i have paid as little as £100 a head.

[Blue Since 76]

Being champions will have a huge effect on club finances. Boxes are generally sold to businesses, not fans. Businesses don't want to take clients to Bolton or Wigan etc and until recently, we wouldn't have been seen differently. Next season, we are champions and therefore businesses will want to take clients to games. Sustained success will obviously help, but this should see another boost to our income.

Like it or not, there are huge potential can bases in the middle east, India and China. To date, all they did was buy knocked off shirts, so there was little point them being fans of anyone. However, with huge middle classes appearing, there will be a scramble for fans. The likes of the rags, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca etc have a historic advantage, but kids want current players names on shirts, not Keegan and Charlton. The likes of Aguero could be very important to us in breaking into that elite group and being champions doesn't harm it.

As for the stadium, it's probably big enough for next season, but I'd be surprised if it meets the needs in say 10 years time. You can't just chuck some more seats in, so I'd be amazed if work isn't underway to consider the options. Didn't we employ an architect a couple of years ago who'd worked on stadiums? Could have been for the campus, but they could have a sideline in expansions

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

As for the stadium, it's probably big enough for next season, but I'd be surprised if it meets the needs in say 10 years time. You can't just chuck some more seats in, so I'd be amazed if work isn't underway to consider the options. Didn't we employ an architect a couple of years ago who'd worked on stadiums? Could have been for the campus, but they could have a sideline in expansions

One thing people don't quote understand is how much carefull planning project like expanding excisting stadia needs. This is essentially something that would take six to eight months normally. They basically have three months to do it so constractor needs to have everything in place and there's no room for error. There's no room for being late. In order for it to succeed it will need several years of planning.

[Blue Since 76]

One thing people don't quote understand is how much carefull planning project like expanding excisting stadia needs. This is essentially something that would take six to eight months normally. They basically have three months to do it so constractor needs to have everything in place and there's no room for error. There's no room for being late. In order for it to succeed it will need several years of planning.

Agree, but doubt it could be done in 3 months. I think making one end the family stand is part of the plan (all the cheap seats together which are likely to be unavailable for a while. The idea of moving the away fans may also be related, as I assume we still have to provide for them, even if the stand they are normally in has been closed.

I think we've still limited the number of season tickets to around 37k, so I assume they could find a way to give every season ticket holder a seat but there would be none for single purchase for a while.

[southern softy]

No mention of stadium expansion in Khaldoon's interview on website (I think).
Focus seems to be on the academy facilities and pushing us internationally. Would be Interesting to know the view of the club
re how these sit with our short and long term objectives compared with expanding the stadium.

[Ted Hughes]

In case people are unaware of it, the 'world class leisure destination' which has been planned for around the stadium and was put out to tender, is now officially signed up for development to private companies & in partnership with the City council.

Those private companies are owned by us. Basically, we decide what goes up & build it & the council get a cut.

It would seem to me to make sense that the stadium expansion would be either part of that build or precede it. You don't want an hotel in the way if you're taking the roof off the stadium. Therefore it will start pretty soon imo. Maybe at the end of next season ? But I wouldn't rule out an announcement soon.

[Beeks]

One of my best friends works in the industry and he reckons it would cost more to build additional tiers than it would to tear down Eastlands and build a new stadium.

Then there is the deal with the council on the existing stadium to be taken into consideration

[Ted Hughes]

One of my best friends works in the industry and he reckons it would cost more to build additional tiers than it would to tear down Eastlands and build a new stadium.

Then there is the deal with the council on the existing stadium to be taken into consideration

It's upto the chief if he wants to spend it. It may not be the kind of build people envisage though. The stadium could become part of something else. Some thinking outside the box may be required.

[Blue Since 76]

One of my best friends works in the industry and he reckons it would cost more to build additional tiers than it would to tear down Eastlands and build a new stadium.

Then there is the deal with the council on the existing stadium to be taken into consideration

Deal was sorted last year when it changed from percentage of ticket revenue to flat amount per season.

Cost to stadium would depend how it was planned and built. I've heard previously that it's the same design as arsenal's, but lowered at the ends. Don't know how true that is, but could just be a case of roof off, continue 3rd tier, new roof on ends.

Alternatively, as long as after the spiral isn't structural, you could take a complete end off and build something like Newcastle have, but with a hotel and boxes like Chelsea.

Don't forget, one of our main sponsors is a huge construction firm

[Crossie]

Didn't we buy the council out of the old deal?

The stadium tour guy said the stadium is built with expansion in mind, and it would be reasonably easy. Its just a massive mechano set.

Apparently Sheik Mansour is happy to do it, but only when there has been some continued success.

I'd say another big season, some Champions League progress and the end to the current economic problems would make it MUCH more worth while.

At the moment the climate is not right, although its probably not far off improving.

Another season or 2, winning things, and I reckon we'd up it to 60k to 65k. I also think it could be done in 3 months.

We are staying in the stadium that's for sure.

[Beeks]

Didn't we buy the council out of the old deal?.

Nope..still being leased..we just negotiated a flat fee I think..rather than the previous deal which involved them getting a percentage of any revenue over the 33,000 odd (Which constituted Maine Rd)

[Blue Since 76]

Nope..still being leased..we just negotiated a flat fee I think..rather than the previous deal which involved them getting a percentage of any revenue over the 33,000 odd (Which constituted Maine Rd)

I'd be very surprised though if that deal didn't allow for expansion though. Think we were paying about £2m a season on tickets and £3m a season now. Even with cup runs, that'd be a bad deal for us unless they were going to push the prices up a long way or expand the numbers. So far, neither has happened.