Can Mark Hughes take us into the Champions League?

[lythamblue]

Can I just say we have won fuckall for 33 years and we are acting like fucking premadonnas, it amazes me. I used to love city fans, but this money lark has me confused. I will never tell you lot if I win the lottery!

Good analogy that .... because that is exactly how some of our fans are now starting to behave. Just like ...... a syndicate from a deprived area that have just won the lottery.

They think that money can and should buy everything and get dissappointed when it doesn't. They move into a big house in a posh area and think automatically all the neighbours will respect them, ask them round for dinner and let them take over the neighbourhood.

Sooner or later, they will realise that respect has to be earned ..... and that takes time.

[Original Dub]

Can I just say we have won fuckall for 33 years and we are acting like fucking premadonnas, it amazes me. I used to love city fans, but this money lark has me confused. I will never tell you lot if I win the lottery!

It would have to be one hell of a rollover to compare with our situation. I for one certainly don't expect us to win anything just yet but we absolutely HAVE to get that Champs League money onto the Trading Account very quickly or the oil trillions will be rendered useless by the UEFA officials that are in the cartel's pocket and the dream we are living will fade pretty damn fast. I just can't bear the thought of that scenario.

you keep harping on about this, but nothing is set in stone AND we have a major plus against the platini mob because we are sponsored by our owner! I am not worried.

If you wait for something to be set in stone before you treat it as a threat then it's too late to act if the worst happens. The proposals first appeared nearly a year ago. By this summer they seemed to have firmed up quite seriously. If you think they won't exclude sponsorship by parties directly connected to owners then I think you will be disappointed. It's an easy loophole to close and the rules of UEFA competition are such that they can pretty much do what they damn well want.

Seriously mate, you have to relax on this shit, its like an episode of Pinky and the Brain and the evil Platini is going to destroy us. Platini is one man, the wealth of our owners is far more important to football than that knob head... especially in times of financial crisis.

how mush money have we put into football again? Over £200m or something?

[Socrates]

Can I just say we have won fuckall for 33 years and we are acting like fucking premadonnas, it amazes me. I used to love city fans, but this money lark has me confused. I will never tell you lot if I win the lottery!

It would have to be one hell of a rollover to compare with our situation. I for one certainly don't expect us to win anything just yet but we absolutely HAVE to get that Champs League money onto the Trading Account very quickly or the oil trillions will be rendered useless by the UEFA officials that are in the cartel's pocket and the dream we are living will fade pretty damn fast. I just can't bear the thought of that scenario.

you keep harping on about this, but nothing is set in stone AND we have a major plus against the platini mob because we are sponsored by our owner! I am not worried.

If you wait for something to be set in stone before you treat it as a threat then it's too late to act if the worst happens. The proposals first appeared nearly a year ago. By this summer they seemed to have firmed up quite seriously. If you think they won't exclude sponsorship by parties directly connected to owners then I think you will be disappointed. It's an easy loophole to close and the rules of UEFA competition are such that they can pretty much do what they damn well want.

Seriously mate, you have to relax on this shit, its like an episode of Pinky and the Brain and the evil Platini is going to destroy us. Platini is one man, the wealth of our owners is far more important to football than that knob head... especially in times of financial crisis.

how mush money have we put into football again? Over £200m or something?

What the fucking fuck is Pinky and the Brain? Platini is indeed one man. The front man for a cartel. A cartel that sees those huge sums as a common threat and wants to keep us out!

[Pretty Boy Lee]

[/quote]

What the fucking fuck is Pinky and the Brain? Platini is indeed one man. The front man for a cartel. A cartel that sees those huge sums as a common threat and wants to keep us out![/quote]


Your world will become a better place once you familiarise yourself with Pinky and the Brain.

[mcfc1632]

Just so you do not feel isolated on this Soc - I want to weigh in at 1000% behind you on the Platini issue - it is not a major threat - it is much more serious than that IMO.

There are other reasons why I want stability - good footballing ones - but even as an anti-Hughes man you can see this major threat and put the future of our club before your personal dislike - for me that puts you streets ahead on the credibility scale over some of the shallow idiots that cannot put the good of the club before their pathetic bigotry

[sandman]

Even if he rides his luck and despite how tactically abismal we appear we manage to get into the champs league by the class of our individual players... What then??

We are not looking european material at the moment, certainly not close to champions league material, how wil we ever get anywhere in these leagues if he cant manage to beat any of the poor teams week in week out?

[Bingo Lewis]

Course he can. I think if he does, he'll do it the hard way, but we're far from out of touch with the top four and a run of wins then we're back in the title race, not just the top four. But as I said, Hughes doesn't do it the easy way.

[Alex Sapphire]

It would have to be one hell of a rollover to compare with our situation. I for one certainly don't expect us to win anything just yet but we absolutely HAVE to get that Champs League money onto the Trading Account very quickly or the oil trillions will be rendered useless by the UEFA officials that are in the cartel's pocket and the dream we are living will fade pretty damn fast. I just can't bear the thought of that scenario.

you keep harping on about this, but nothing is set in stone AND we have a major plus against the platini mob because we are sponsored by our owner! I am not worried.

If you wait for something to be set in stone before you treat it as a threat then it's too late to act if the worst happens. The proposals first appeared nearly a year ago. By this summer they seemed to have firmed up quite seriously. If you think they won't exclude sponsorship by parties directly connected to owners then I think you will be disappointed. It's an easy loophole to close and the rules of UEFA competition are such that they can pretty much do what they damn well want.

Seriously mate, you have to relax on this shit, its like an episode of Pinky and the Brain and the evil Platini is going to destroy us. Platini is one man, the wealth of our owners is far more important to football than that knob head... especially in times of financial crisis.

how mush money have we put into football again? Over £200m or something?

What the fucking fuck is Pinky and the Brain? Platini is indeed one man. The front man for a cartel. A cartel that sees those huge sums as a common threat and wants to keep us out!

any new rules will come in in season 2012/13. So we do need to plan but we don't need to panic. I think most people have acknowledged the strategic approach the owners are taking and I expect with a 3 season run up, we'll be both in the CL and well prepared.

[Original Dub]

Exactly Alex!

Socs - you and your "Platini is the head of the cartel"....

Really mate....

Really.

[Socrates]

If you wait for something to be set in stone before you treat it as a threat then it's too late to act if the worst happens. The proposals first appeared nearly a year ago. By this summer they seemed to have firmed up quite seriously. If you think they won't exclude sponsorship by parties directly connected to owners then I think you will be disappointed. It's an easy loophole to close and the rules of UEFA competition are such that they can pretty much do what they damn well want.

Seriously mate, you have to relax on this shit, its like an episode of Pinky and the Brain and the evil Platini is going to destroy us. Platini is one man, the wealth of our owners is far more important to football than that knob head... especially in times of financial crisis.

how mush money have we put into football again? Over £200m or something?

What the fucking fuck is Pinky and the Brain? Platini is indeed one man. The front man for a cartel. A cartel that sees those huge sums as a common threat and wants to keep us out!

any new rules will come in in season 2012/13. So we do need to plan but we don't need to panic. I think most people have acknowledged the strategic approach the owners are taking and I expect with a 3 season run up, we'll be both in the CL and well prepared.

Oh Alex, you DON'T get it do you? The new rules will have be based on the accounts for the previous year which will need to have Champions League money in them if we are to pass the audit and keep our UEFA eligibility. For 2012/13 Champions League, by necessity of determining the qualifying teams and draws in the summer, that will mean the accounts to May 2011. For the 2010/11 season. NEXT season. That means we HAVE to qualify this season or the gate could already be closed when we do...

[Alex Sapphire]

Oh Alex, you DON'T get it do you?

thanks for patronising me.

The new rules will have be based on the accounts for the previous year

As you say they are new, so you may or may not be right about what they will be based on. If they are based on accounts from a previous year that may mean that a new or first time qualifier could be barred in spite of having a guarantee of future earnings (by definition in the period of the competition). That really would be cartel-like unfairness. Much more likely they'll follow the premier League's lead and take into account future income.

which will need to have Champions League money in them if we are to pass the audit and keep our UEFA eligibility.

OR the promise of it?

And are you sure you're not mixing up the future rules with existing UEFA Club Licensing Regulations which provides for a Licence as a prerequisite of entering the competitions, but does not have the "future rules" as criteria.
The new rules have been flagged as being introduced over three years (starting 20012/13) and that they would oblige clubs (over a certain unspecified turnover) to "balance their books" (presumably show a profit) over another unspecified "period of time".
So that would not necessarily preclude a team who lose money entering the competition in 2012 would it?

For 2012/13 Champions League, by necessity of determining the qualifying teams and draws in the summer, that will mean the accounts to May 2011. For the 2010/11 season. NEXT season. That means we HAVE to qualify this season or the gate could already be closed when we do...

A team qualifying for Europe through its league position in May 2012 that's the season after the season after this season (let's call them City) will qualify for the 2012/13 tournament. This will be the first time any new rules will be in place and the first of a number of years in which the club will have to show a trend towards compliance rather than immediate, retrospective compliance with any financial restrictions which may be included.
They will (under existing Premier League reulations) have provided independently audited Accounts on 1st March of that year (presumably covering an earlier period than that to 1st March) as well as "future financial information" (which would presumably include their CL income for the upcoming competition?)
So it's just possible that even though I don't get it, your statement "we have to qualify this season" is a bit hasty and possibly even scare mungering.

[zuricity]

No.

After Saturday's tactical debacle, I really don't care how long Hughes stays anymore. I was prepared to do and say nothing about the manager all this season. So many argued he needed time to mould his team. what I saw from City on Saturday wasn't football.

Crickey, thank god SWP keeps miss-hitting his crosses and shots because without a deflection that first goal would never have come about and I dreaded going in 2-0 at half-time.

The rest has all been said in the other thread about the game. A disgrace from start to finish. I still can't believe we are playing Bridge. Lescott is not worth 8 mill never mind 22 mill. ( I'm a Lescott fan btw - but he is awful at the moment. How come he couldn't keep the line with Toure moving out ? Is that him or Toure not talking to his back four ? ). Oh and don't get me started on Tevez and Barry.

[Original Dub]

No.

After Saturday's tactical debacle, I really don't care how long Hughes stays anymore. I was prepared to do and say nothing about the manager all this season. So many argued he needed time to mould his team. what I saw from City on Saturday wasn't football.

Crickey, thank god SWP keeps miss-hitting his crosses and shots because without a deflection that first goal would never have come about and I dreaded going in 2-0 at half-time.

The rest has all been said in the other thread about the game. A disgrace from start to finish. I still can't believe we are playing Bridge. Lescott is not worth 8 mill never mind 22 mill. ( I'm a Lescott fan btw - but he is awful at the moment. How come he couldn't keep the line with Toure moving out ? Is that him or Toure not talking to his back four ? ). Oh and don't get me started on Tevez and Barry.

You think City were a disgrace from 'start to finish' on Sat?!!

That's ridiculous, you can't be disgraceful whilst coming back from two goals down to leading 3-2... you may be disgracelful in going 2 nil down but not coming back as we did.

SWP's goal was on target and his assist was pretty accurate too. Honestly, most of what you post isn't scare mongering, or trying to recruit anti-hughes folk like others.... its just wrong most of the time.

Just stuff that isn't true...

[mcfc1632]

Oh Alex, you DON'T get it do you?

thanks for patronising me.

The new rules will have be based on the accounts for the previous year

As you say they are new, so you may or may not be right about what they will be based on. If they are based on accounts from a previous year that may mean that a new or first time qualifier could be barred in spite of having a guarantee of future earnings (by definition in the period of the competition). That really would be cartel-like unfairness. Much more likely they'll follow the premier League's lead and take into account future income.

which will need to have Champions League money in them if we are to pass the audit and keep our UEFA eligibility.

OR the promise of it?

And are you sure you're not mixing up the future rules with existing UEFA Club Licensing Regulations which provides for a Licence as a prerequisite of entering the competitions, but does not have the "future rules" as criteria.
The new rules have been flagged as being introduced over three years (starting 20012/13) and that they would oblige clubs (over a certain unspecified turnover) to "balance their books" (presumably show a profit) over another unspecified "period of time".
So that would not necessarily preclude a team who lose money entering the competition in 2012 would it?

For 2012/13 Champions League, by necessity of determining the qualifying teams and draws in the summer, that will mean the accounts to May 2011. For the 2010/11 season. NEXT season. That means we HAVE to qualify this season or the gate could already be closed when we do...

A team qualifying for Europe through its league position in May 2012 that's the season after the season after this season (let's call them City) will qualify for the 2012/13 tournament. This will be the first time any new rules will be in place and the first of a number of years in which the club will have to show a trend towards compliance rather than immediate, retrospective compliance with any financial restrictions which may be included.
They will (under existing Premier League reulations) have provided independently audited Accounts on 1st March of that year (presumably covering an earlier period than that to 1st March) as well as "future financial information" (which would presumably include their CL income for the upcoming competition?)
So it's just possible that even though I don't get it, your statement "we have to qualify this season" is a bit hasty and possibly even scare mungering.

OD, Alex, others - I do not want to be in a position where I seem to disagree with you on this - I tend to agree with most of the posts from you guys - but this issue as me exercised and I am way beyond even Soc - there has been a real focus on vested interests and that includes the influential members of the old G14 - with Chelski as a 'honorary members'.

The stakes are now much different to the past - Roman will have to invest much more to stay there - and he does not want to
The scum and Liverpool could go under without CL

The current CL and the changes that made the Uefa cup the farce it was / is was a reaction to the threat of a breakaway league.

Platini is not some 'driver' here - he is a scared rabbit - but he will need to respond to the new threat from these big boys before they do something - so the regulations will be developed over these coming months and I think that they will have 2 distinct themes:

1/ they must not be detrimental to the RMs, Scums etc of the world - so entirely sensible controls on debt will be 'massaged' to avoid issue

2/ They will seek to stymie the Sheik type scenario - and this is often mentioned by Platini

So he will have to jump through some hoops - and then test each proposed idea with the 2 drivers I mention - one could be to say turnover should not be vulnerable to 'fluctuations' - so it is to be based on an aggregate over 3 or 5 years

I am just making this example up - but making up to achieve a purpose - avoiding a renewed threat to Uefa of a break away - is exactly what I think will happen

I know it sounds paranoid - but this is big big business and there are vested interested - what is Platini without the big boys/

I just a) want us in CL asap, b) want us to introduce new revenue streams through sponsorship etc and c) make close ties with the influential members of the G14 - RM, Barca etc so that they are not 'against us'

[zuricity]

No.

After Saturday's tactical debacle, I really don't care how long Hughes stays anymore. I was prepared to do and say nothing about the manager all this season. So many argued he needed time to mould his team. what I saw from City on Saturday wasn't football.

Crickey, thank god SWP keeps miss-hitting his crosses and shots because without a deflection that first goal would never have come about and I dreaded going in 2-0 at half-time.

The rest has all been said in the other thread about the game. A disgrace from start to finish. I still can't believe we are playing Bridge. Lescott is not worth 8 mill never mind 22 mill. ( I'm a Lescott fan btw - but he is awful at the moment. How come he couldn't keep the line with Toure moving out ? Is that him or Toure not talking to his back four ? ). Oh and don't get me started on Tevez and Barry.

You think City were a disgrace from 'start to finish' on Sat?!!

That's ridiculous, you can't be disgraceful whilst coming back from two goals down to leading 3-2... you may be disgracelful in going 2 nil down but not coming back as we did.

SWP's goal was on target and his assist was pretty accurate too. Honestly, most of what you post isn't scare mongering, or trying to recruit anti-hughes folk like others.... its just wrong most of the time.

Just stuff that isn't true...

Tosh !

The ball was clearly deflected off Jordans leg.

I agree with you we did well to come back to make three goals.

However we should never have been going 2-0 down against Burnley.

Lescott makes himself wide by opening his arms before a player makes a cross, not very clever and no surprise that he can't get his hands out of the way. Clear penalty.


Tevez continuously lofting the ball over the bar from 25 yards out in games when another player is in a better position.

Like i said these points and others about our defending have been discussed on the main match thread.

We aren't playing good football at the moment.

[Original Dub]

No.

After Saturday's tactical debacle, I really don't care how long Hughes stays anymore. I was prepared to do and say nothing about the manager all this season. So many argued he needed time to mould his team. what I saw from City on Saturday wasn't football.

Crickey, thank god SWP keeps miss-hitting his crosses and shots because without a deflection that first goal would never have come about and I dreaded going in 2-0 at half-time.

The rest has all been said in the other thread about the game. A disgrace from start to finish. I still can't believe we are playing Bridge. Lescott is not worth 8 mill never mind 22 mill. ( I'm a Lescott fan btw - but he is awful at the moment. How come he couldn't keep the line with Toure moving out ? Is that him or Toure not talking to his back four ? ). Oh and don't get me started on Tevez and Barry.

You think City were a disgrace from 'start to finish' on Sat?!!

That's ridiculous, you can't be disgraceful whilst coming back from two goals down to leading 3-2... you may be disgracelful in going 2 nil down but not coming back as we did.

SWP's goal was on target and his assist was pretty accurate too. Honestly, most of what you post isn't scare mongering, or trying to recruit anti-hughes folk like others.... its just wrong most of the time.

Just stuff that isn't true...

Tosh !

The ball was clearly deflected off Jordans leg.

I agree with you we did well to come back to make three goals.

However we should never have been going 2-0 down against Burnley.

Lescott makes himself wide by opening his arms before a player makes a cross, not very clever and no surprise that he can't get his hands out of the way. Clear penalty.


Tevez continuously lofting the ball over the bar from 25 yards out in games when another player is in a better position.

Like i said these points and others about our defending have been discussed on the main match thread.

We aren't playing good football at the moment.

No we aren't DEFENDING well at the moment.

Also, I never said SWP's shot didn't take a deflection, I said it was on target.

We have a very good attack. We need to defend properly and we will be title contenders.

[zuricity]

Yep OD , I agree with you again , our defending is really, really worrying. It seems like since Dunne has gone we can't even keep a clean sheet !

It's particularly worrying that some of the mistakes being made seem elementary. Like toure and zabba letting the player run onto a pass for the second goal. Should never happen.

[sandman]

No.

After Saturday's tactical debacle, I really don't care how long Hughes stays anymore. I was prepared to do and say nothing about the manager all this season. So many argued he needed time to mould his team. what I saw from City on Saturday wasn't football.

Crickey, thank god SWP keeps miss-hitting his crosses and shots because without a deflection that first goal would never have come about and I dreaded going in 2-0 at half-time.

The rest has all been said in the other thread about the game. A disgrace from start to finish. I still can't believe we are playing Bridge. Lescott is not worth 8 mill never mind 22 mill. ( I'm a Lescott fan btw - but he is awful at the moment. How come he couldn't keep the line with Toure moving out ? Is that him or Toure not talking to his back four ? ). Oh and don't get me started on Tevez and Barry.

You think City were a disgrace from 'start to finish' on Sat?!!

That's ridiculous, you can't be disgraceful whilst coming back from two goals down to leading 3-2... you may be disgracelful in going 2 nil down but not coming back as we did.

SWP's goal was on target and his assist was pretty accurate too. Honestly, most of what you post isn't scare mongering, or trying to recruit anti-hughes folk like others.... its just wrong most of the time.

Just stuff that isn't true...

Tosh !

The ball was clearly deflected off Jordans leg.

I agree with you we did well to come back to make three goals.

However we should never have been going 2-0 down against Burnley.

Lescott makes himself wide by opening his arms before a player makes a cross, not very clever and no surprise that he can't get his hands out of the way. Clear penalty.


Tevez continuously lofting the ball over the bar from 25 yards out in games when another player is in a better position.

Like i said these points and others about our defending have been discussed on the main match thread.

We aren't playing good football at the moment.

No we aren't DEFENDING well at the moment.

Also, I never said SWP's shot didn't take a deflection, I said it was on target.

We have a very good attack. We need to defend properly and we will be title contenders.

I disagree, I feel our problems are more than just defensive, we have not had a settled midfield either this season, to be up there near the top end you have to boss the midfield like chelsea do, we are not even close!!

[Alex Sapphire]

to be up there near the top end you have to boss the midfield like chelsea do, we are not even close!!

That's right.
Abramovich acquired a team who were fourth in the premier league and has invested over £750 million in it and experimented with some of the world's most successful managers.
We aren't yet Chelsea.

[Socrates]

Oh Alex, you DON'T get it do you?

thanks for patronising me.

The new rules will have be based on the accounts for the previous year

As you say they are new, so you may or may not be right about what they will be based on. If they are based on accounts from a previous year that may mean that a new or first time qualifier could be barred in spite of having a guarantee of future earnings (by definition in the period of the competition). That really would be cartel-like unfairness. Much more likely they'll follow the premier League's lead and take into account future income.

which will need to have Champions League money in them if we are to pass the audit and keep our UEFA eligibility.

OR the promise of it?

And are you sure you're not mixing up the future rules with existing UEFA Club Licensing Regulations which provides for a Licence as a prerequisite of entering the competitions, but does not have the "future rules" as criteria.
The new rules have been flagged as being introduced over three years (starting 20012/13) and that they would oblige clubs (over a certain unspecified turnover) to "balance their books" (presumably show a profit) over another unspecified "period of time".
So that would not necessarily preclude a team who lose money entering the competition in 2012 would it?

For 2012/13 Champions League, by necessity of determining the qualifying teams and draws in the summer, that will mean the accounts to May 2011. For the 2010/11 season. NEXT season. That means we HAVE to qualify this season or the gate could already be closed when we do...

A team qualifying for Europe through its league position in May 2012 that's the season after the season after this season (let's call them City) will qualify for the 2012/13 tournament. This will be the first time any new rules will be in place and the first of a number of years in which the club will have to show a trend towards compliance rather than immediate, retrospective compliance with any financial restrictions which may be included.
They will (under existing Premier League reulations) have provided independently audited Accounts on 1st March of that year (presumably covering an earlier period than that to 1st March) as well as "future financial information" (which would presumably include their CL income for the upcoming competition?)
So it's just possible that even though I don't get it, your statement "we have to qualify this season" is a bit hasty and possibly even scare mungering.

They have clearly stated that the aim will be to stop clubs doing what we are doing i.e. spending capital rather than income. To do that they will have to preclude future income or it would be meaningless. The existing UEFA Licensing Regulations is what I assume they will use as a basis for what they do. They will simply expand that scheme. I am not scaremongering just fighting
against smugness and compacency from people who should know better.