BBC Panorama Documentary on Poland and Ukraine

[Dazzacity]

. Those feelings are not going to disappear for a few weeks whilst the Euro's are on and I would actively discourage my friends who are thinking of going.

To be fair, Iv heard all this before.'Dont go to South Africa for the world cup, you'll get shot and mugged'...'Dont go to Napoli away,you'll get stabbed in the arse'. Alot of scaremongering goes on from the media. As stated, I think the grounds will be fine. Its outside the grounds where I expect to see scenes simular to Belgium and Holland in 2000. I dont think it will be race related but simply large groups of fans full of drink and kickin of.

[Scorchio]

Difficult for a lot of white people to say whether there are big problems with racism (of the colour variety) in these countries or not, as they arent going to experience it are they.

[one man army]

[youtube]pJHyu2NlX-o[/youtube]

would sol campbell go to doncaster then?

[Surrey Sky Blue]

<null>

Ok then!!! Thanks for clearing that one up...... I think :-0

[getdressedmctavish]

I think we should remember these are economically relatively poorly developed countries. I can remember the seventies. Everyday violence was far worse and racism gross.John Barnes covered in spittle at Everton, bananas, monkey chants in large sections of the crowd, not just a minority.So lets not be too smug.

[Wonderwall]

I think we should remember these are economically relatively poorly developed countries. I can remember the seventies. Everyday violence was far worse and racism gross.John Barnes covered in spittle at Everton, bananas, monkey chants in large sections of the crowd, not just a minority.So lets not be too smug.

I cannot remember us being rewarded for that behaviour.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

[youtube]pJHyu2NlX-o[/youtube]

would sol campbell go to doncaster then?

Not that many people would want to go to Donny, no matter what their ethnicity.

[Wonderwall]

Not that many people would want to go to Donny, no matter what their ethnicity.

Diouf loves a challenge

[Surrey Sky Blue]

Not that many people would want to go to Donny, no matter what their ethnicity.

Diouf loves a challenge

I didnt know they had a House Of Fraser!

[BlueinBosnia]

I think we should remember these are economically relatively poorly developed countries. I can remember the seventies. Everyday violence was far worse and racism gross.John Barnes covered in spittle at Everton, bananas, monkey chants in large sections of the crowd, not just a minority.So lets not be too smug.

I cannot remember us being rewarded for that behaviour.

I can't remember us not being rewarded, either.

The Euros were a four-team competition until 1980, and weren't a real commercial success until 1984. As far as I'm aware, England only first expressed an interest in hosting the competition for 1996. England had also held a World Cup relatively recently. I've never heard of UEFA being vocal on the subject of racism back then (not that they're particularly vocal on it now), and I seriously doubt they'd have considered it a major concern for a football tournament.

[Manny padovan]

An interesting article found on the guardian: -
I thought I knew and understood the worst of what went on in football stadiums in eastern Europe. Until I watched last night's Panorama on BBC1. The programme, on racism in Poland and Ukraine, featured massed ranks of fans sieg-heiling and referring to Jews in derogatory terms, black players being monkey chanted and Indian students being kicked around a stadium.

Having seen that footage and other similar films, the question now is what ethnic minority fans and the families of black England players should do for Euro 2012 – go or not go?

The Foreign Office advises black and Asian visitors to Ukraine to "take extra care". Former England captain Sol Campbell responded to the Panorama footage by suggesting we watch the tournament at home or risk "coming back in a coffin".

Football culture in many parts of eastern Europe has problems that are deep-seated and barely hidden – racism, neo-nazism and a profound hatred of gay people. Some of our monitoring shows the role football plays in perpetuating hate crimes. We found almost 200 incidents of racism and antisemitism in Polish and Ukrainian stadiums during an 18-month period to September 2011.

But there are two other factors not to be ignored. Part of this story is the rebuilding and preparation that has taken place by Uefa for the Euros; and part of it is the difference between the two host countries.

Most of the Euro 2012 stadiums are newly built or refurbished. They are well-equipped arenas with decent stewarding and security provisions. Home fans who go to big tournaments are often different to those who attend domestic games, they are usually older and more eager to present their country in the best light. Remember the media stories before the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, predicting riots and security problems? The trouble didn't materialise, but a fantastic World Cup did.

Poland is a member of the EU, one of the fastest growing economies in Europe, with a good public infrastructure and tourist-friendly cities. Ukraine is a slightly different proposition. Although designated as "free" and democratic, there are allegations of political corruption and a lack of open dialogue. It also has an ageing infrastructure that makes travel and communication more difficult. Both countries are mono-cultural.

There is, however, nothing in FARE's knowledge of either country that has changed significantly since they were awarded the 2012 championships. The tournament has been taken east partly because the aspiration is that the legacy will increase understanding between people, through the conduit of sport. There wasn't too much understanding visible in the programme last night, but there is now a public debate about how sport can bring about tolerance and social integration.

Our partners in eastern Europe, the Never Again Association, who are among the most active human rights NGOs in the area, will have monitors at every ground during the tournament. Uefa says it will take strong disciplinary action if they receive reports of any level of discrimination. And referees have been told to stop games if mass racism is an issue: a game of football does not come before the degradation of human beings.

But is all this enough to make ethnic minorities feel comfortable? And what about the safety of black England players and their families?

The FA, which takes on liability as employer of the players for the tournament, must be vigilant and see through complaints if black players are abused during games. In the past this has not always happened. And it is unthinkable that the families of Theo Walcott or Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain miss out on an event of this kind because of the fear of racism, when the FA have plentiful access to plane seats and hotel rooms.

I am going to Euro 2012 and I know a few other black and Asian fans also going. But after the vivid evidence presented in last night's Panorama programme, I cannot encourage others to do the same until there are assurances on safety inside stadiums and in city centres. Zero tolerance of racism and xenophobia should mean just that, it is not simply a hard-hitting phrase.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ority-fans

[BlueinBosnia]

Football culture in many parts of eastern Europe has problems that are deep-seated and barely hidden – racism, neo-nazism and a profound hatred of gay people. Some of our monitoring shows the role football plays in perpetuating hate crimes. We found almost 200 incidents of racism and antisemitism in Polish and Ukrainian stadiums during an 18-month period to September 2011.

Weren't there at least seven or eight incidents in English football solely in matches involving top-flight clubs in a four-month period to early January 2012? And that's without even beginning to think about all the football that's associated with the sectarian problems in Scotland.

[Sister of fu]

I watched the programme on Monday and have to say I was appalled at what I saw. People can say what they want about scare mongering or sensationalising by the BBC, but at the end of the day it happened, it was factual, yes there was 2000 fans doing the Nazi salute, yes a group of innocent students got beat up for being Asian while Police and stewards stood by and did nothing and yes I saw a group of fan’s monkey chanting players relatives as they came into the stadium. I get the feeling that some people are in denial about what was put in front of them.

I am well aware that the UK has had it problems in relation to hooligans but I have never in my 23 years of going to football seen 2000 fans in union give it the big Adolf Hitler and the governing body then saying they were pointing at the other fans. What the fuck??

I listened to Talk Sport yesterday and could not believe what I was hearing when Adrian Durham and Darren Gough were saying there wasn’t a problem and then just belittling black and Asian English football fans when they called the show to say how upset they were by the programme and how they would never watch a game in Poland and the Ukraine. Durham seemed to be taking the piss out them and didn’t seem to understand there rightful worries, I mean what would he know about racism or hate crime being a white British male. I was really angry listening to him.

This isn’t the first time I have watched programmes on Poland in relation to football fans and nothing much seems to have changed in the last couple of years. I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

[BlueinBosnia]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

To be fair, I think 'one rule for the West and another for the East' would be more apt here. The competition has never been held 'behind the Iron Curtain' in its 52-year history, and UEFA were willing to give a bit of leeway (wrongly, in my opinion) with regards to racism.

At the same time, UEFA isn't a British-owned organization. There are probably only 6 or 7 countries out of the 52(?) member states of UEFA that find racism equally abhorrent (the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands, Ireland, Germany and maybe a couple more) to us.

I agree that there is a problem in these countries. However, I think the BBC have an ulterior motive here. As has been suggested, there may be a desire to deter people from leaving during the Olympics, but personally I feel that British people will be killed over there, due to a reputation we have built up for hooliganism, arrogance and general loutish behaviour. If, however, the focus can be shifted towards hate crimes, the fact that Dwayne from Essex got stabbed can be linked to him having been seen chatting to his black mate a few minutes before, rather than the fact he was drunk, lairy and British.

[ross.mcfc]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

You mean like getting Euro 96 after all the problems of the 80's and riots in Italy and Sweden not to mention getting game scrapped in Ireland 3 months before the tournament kicked off?

[BlueinBosnia]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

You mean like getting Euro 96 after all the problems of the 80's and riots in Italy and Sweden not to mention getting game scrapped in Ireland 3 months before the tournament kicked off?

I thought the game that was scrapped in Ireland was the Playoff for the final place, which was scrapped because it was Netherlands v ROI, and therefore moved to a more neutral venue?

[Sister of fu]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

You mean like getting Euro 96 after all the problems of the 80's and riots in Italy and Sweden not to mention getting game scrapped in Ireland 3 months before the tournament kicked off?

England has worked hard at eradicating the problems on the terraces and didn’t deny there were issues in the first place. Did you see the programme?? People in authority denying what was in front of them. Does that no worry you when a major tournament is just around the corner? How can a problem be dealt with if people don’t think there is one in the first place.

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

[ross.mcfc]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

You mean like getting Euro 96 after all the problems of the 80's and riots in Italy and Sweden not to mention getting game scrapped in Ireland 3 months before the tournament kicked off?

I thought the game that was scrapped in Ireland was the Playoff for the final place, which was scrapped because it was Netherlands v ROI, and therefore moved to a more neutral venue?

It was just a friendly. You are thinking of the play off for WC 98 which was held on a nuetral venue because it was a one off game.

[ross.mcfc]

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

There were Nazi salutes being dished out from England fans at the Dublin game three months before the tournament. Not to mention wrecking the stadium and getting the match abandoned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ThJblpDLs

My point being is that England should on their fans behaviour in the previous decade never should have been awarded that tournament and I'l brush over the death of the Russian who was confused for a German after the semi final and say that was a very well held tournament. As will this one.

I live in Sweden at the moment. As multicutural, liberal and PC as it gets. I have not seen or read one single scare story in the media here.

[CityGer]

I can guarantee if fans behaved like that on the terraces of the Eithad or Old Trafford, none of our teams would be performing in the likes of the champions’ league or the Europa league and we defo wouldn’t be rewarded with a major football tournament. It seems one rule for one and another for the British football.

You mean like getting Euro 96 after all the problems of the 80's and riots in Italy and Sweden not to mention getting game scrapped in Ireland 3 months before the tournament kicked off?

England has worked hard at eradicating the problems on the terraces and didn’t deny there were issues in the first place. Did you see the programme?? People in authority denying what was in front of them. Does that no worry you when a major tournament is just around the corner? How can a problem be dealt with if people don’t think there is one in the first place.

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

Don't bother sis. Ross despises England and the English and no longer posts on this board about City. He just lurks, waiting for a thread that gives him an opportunity to post anti English stuff.

I'm surprised he can bring himself to support an English club side, such is his hatred.