BBC Panorama Documentary on Poland and Ukraine

[ross.mcfc]

Ross despises England and the English

100% incorrect.

[CityGer]

Ross despises England and the English

100% incorrect.

Bollox.

It's all you post about on here these days.

Get a grip of yourself, the old Ross is a loss to this board.

[BlueinBosnia]

I live in Sweden at the moment. As multicutural, liberal and PC as it gets. I have not seen or read one single scare story in the media here.

Sweden's fans aren't going to be targeted in the same way as English ones.

I'd go as far as to say a black or Asian Swede will be safer than a white Brit over there.

[BlueinBosnia]

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

There were Nazi salutes being dished out from England fans at the Dublin game three months before the tournament. Not to mention wrecking the stadium and getting the match abandoned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ThJblpDLs

Ah, that game. It was like 18 months before the tournament. Interesting to read this from an Irish fan:

The November 1990 game was actually a lot more violent, with clashes all over town and a head-on collusion with a ‘free Dessie Ellis’ march on O’Connell Bridge. A van load of headcases, tooled up to the nines, and drunk beyond repair were arrested (Irish fans, down from Belfast). The English hooligans regarded it as a wild old time, which is why so many came in 1995 and succeeded in wrecking the game. There were dozens of clashes between themselves the night before with Man. Utd and Leeds fighting at Manchester Airport and Oldham and Leeds fighting in Parnell Street. A few of the English hoolie memoirs have given their side, there’s been very few realistic accounts from the Irish side. Suffice to say the atmosphere was mad and I remember tons of monkey chanting at Paul Ince from the ‘greatest fans in the world’.

By 'Greatest fans in the world', he means the Irish...
http://comeheretome.wordpress.com/2010/ ... ous-match/
A lot of the comments (and the article itself) imply that the organisers were at least partly to blame for the chaos.

[one man army]

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

it doesnt really matter cause looking at England squad i don't really think you will be playing there. therefore no England fan will have to accept that huge inconvenience to travel to such racist country as poland.
p.s. regarding your ignorance - beating asian fans occured in ukraine, not poland.

[Sister of fu]

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

it doesnt really matter cause looking at England squad i don't really think you will be playing there. therefore no England fan will have to accept that huge inconvenience to travel to such racist country as poland.
p.s. regarding your ignorance - beating asian fans occured in ukraine, not poland.

My mistake is I didn’t realise that the incident with the Asian youths took part in the Ukraine, nether the less it happened or was I imagining things. No doubt that will be brushed under some large carpet somewhere with the authorities telling us that the youths were not set upon, they were all play fighting or something.

"The BBC Panorama program toured football matches in Poland before the UEFA Euro 2012 tournament. The journalists recorded "a chorus of anti-Semitic chanting" and witnessed "black football players enduring monkey chants from the terraces"

If this was going on at City games for instance ad that was blues doing that I wouldn’t come on here and defend it like you are doing. The sooner certain people admit that there is an issue the sooner they can start to deal with it.

[Alex Sapphire]

Would you happily watch a game in Poland if you were black or Asian say?? I don’t recall mass groups of football fans in the UK taking part in anti- smetic chanting and beating Asian fans up in the run up to the Euro 96??

it doesnt really matter cause looking at England squad i don't really think you will be playing there. therefore no England fan will have to accept that huge inconvenience to travel to such racist country as poland.
p.s. regarding your ignorance - beating asian fans occured in ukraine, not poland.

ouch
put those claws away :)

[BlueinBosnia]

If this was going on at City games for instance ad that was blues doing that I wouldn’t come on here and defend it like you are doing. The sooner certain people admit that there is an issue the sooner they can start to deal with it.

Sorry Sis, but this makes you sound like a massive bigot.

a) he wasn't defending it. He was saying the BBC have overhyped things. Which I totally believe.
b) there's a big difference between it happening at a club and someone denying there's a problem with it, and it happening in a country, and someone saying it's not as bad as it's been made to look.
c) he's already said that a massive focus of the reporting in Poland was Lodz (Poland's Bradford or Burnley, a depressed industrial area), where no games are even going to be held.
d) due to UEFA's corporate favouritism, there will be hardly any local people at games. Also, I guess inside stadiums there'll be massive security, as there's no way Coca Cola et al. will want their brands associated with thuggery or racism. Outside the ground will be a free-for-all, but hey, you risk it on the streets of Britain with the EDL these days...

[Dameerto]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

[CityGer]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

Agreed.

Out of order from the resident lefty, self righteous one.

I should add, BIB has got previous for this. I'm pretty sure he accused Chinners and PBL of racism less than two weeks ago.

[BlueinBosnia]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

Actually, you're right, I misread/interpreted it. Apologies Fu.

[Wonderwall]

If this was going on at City games for instance ad that was blues doing that I wouldn’t come on here and defend it like you are doing. The sooner certain people admit that there is an issue the sooner they can start to deal with it.

Sorry Sis, but this makes you sound like a massive bigot.

a) he wasn't defending it. He was saying the BBC have overhyped things. Which I totally believe.
b) there's a big difference between it happening at a club and someone denying there's a problem with it, and it happening in a country, and someone saying it's not as bad as it's been made to look.
c) he's already said that a massive focus of the reporting in Poland was Lodz (Poland's Bradford or Burnley, a depressed industrial area), where no games are even going to be held.
d) due to UEFA's corporate favouritism, there will be hardly any local people at games. Also, I guess inside stadiums there'll be massive security, as there's no way Coca Cola et al. will want their brands associated with thuggery or racism. Outside the ground will be a free-for-all, but hey, you risk it on the streets of Britain with the EDL these days...

BIGOT? total bollox, what SoF says is spot on. Whether it was overhyped/sensationalised/<insert other word> is not the issue and we only have his word for it. What we can say is, it was factual and happened. To try and gloss over it or minimise these actions by saying its in Lodz and there is no games there so its ok. Believe it or not, people from Burnley and Bradford have learnt how to drive and use public transport which enables them to leave said areas. Therefore localising something means nothing in this context.

[BlueinBosnia]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

Agreed.

Out of order from the resident lefty, self righteous one.

I should add, BIB has got previous for this. I'm pretty sure he accused Chinners and PBL of racism less than two weeks ago.

No, I accused them of bandwaggoning a thread with a bully-boy attitude. I understand it's quite a subtle difference for someone with an axe to grind.

[Dameerto]

It just goes to show that forums are very much a '2d' medium for communication and without the '3rd dimension' of eye contact/facial expression/body language things can be too easily misunderstood and assumptions made.

[CityGer]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

Agreed.

Out of order from the resident lefty, self righteous one.

I should add, BIB has got previous for this. I'm pretty sure he accused Chinners and PBL of racism less than two weeks ago.

No, I accused them of bandwaggoning a thread with a bully-boy attitude. I understand it's quite a subtle difference for someone with an axe to grind.

I've absolutely no axe to grind, on the contrary. I generally find you someone who is well worth reading.

However, you are quick to attack people and play the racist/bigotry card if they have a different stance from you on issues of this nature. You may not have come out an actually called chinners and PBL racists, perhaps not as bluntly as your accusation against SOF, but that was certainly the inference.

[BlueinBosnia]

BIGOT? total bollox, what SoF says is spot on. Whether it was overhyped/sensationalised/<insert other word> is not the issue and we only have his word for it. What we can say is, it was factual and happened. To try and gloss over it or minimise these actions by saying its in Lodz and there is no games there so its ok. Believe it or not, people from Burnley and Bradford have learnt how to drive and use public transport which enables them to leave said areas. Therefore localising something means nothing in this context.

As I said in the post above, I misread/misinterpreted, and apologise to her.

So using your analogy of using public transport/learning to drive, because the EDL are rampant in said towns, it might not be safe to go to a football game anywhere in England? Nonsense.

These are right-wing extremists from low-income families in deprived areas, and are only motivated by 'crowd mentality'. Unless something is organised by the extreme right (which is an incredibly small minority in Poland- they have a lower proportion voting for the far right than we do for BNP), they'll just stay at home, shouting at the foreigners they see on TV. I must stress, I'm speaking about Poland here. Ukraine is a different kettle of fish.

If someone made a documentary about the EDL's activity in Britain, and it aired on, say, a Swedish TV channel, edited to look like it was a problem rife in football everywhere in the country, I'm sure a large number on here would be equally as indignant as One Man Army.

[BlueinBosnia]

However, you are quick to attack people and play the racist/bigotry card if they have a different stance from you on issues of this nature. You may not have come out an actually called chinners and PBL racists, perhaps not as bluntly as your accusation against SOF, but that was certainly the inference.

Inference by you, possibly, but certainly not the implication by me. As Dameerto said, it can be hard to interpret things sometimes without tone of voice/facial expressions.

On these kind of issues, I seem to have a different stance to most people (I wouldn't consider myself a 'leftie' at all, more a centre-right libertarian), so I'm hardly going to shout 'racist' lightly.

I remember a couple of seasons ago, I was accused of being racist by someone on here for not finding the song about Adebayor's dad washing elephants racist, in part because I'd never heard of 'elephant washer' as an insult used for Indians, and didn't think that would have a direct racist connotation to a Togolese...

[Nigels Tackle]

However, you are quick to attack people and play the racist/bigotry card if they have a different stance from you on issues of this nature. You may not have come out an actually called chinners and PBL racists, perhaps not as bluntly as your accusation against SOF, but that was certainly the inference.

Inference by you, possibly, but certainly not the implication by me. As Dameerto said, it can be hard to interpret things sometimes without tone of voice/facial expressions.

On these kind of issues, I seem to have a different stance to most people (I wouldn't consider myself a 'leftie' at all, more a centre-right libertarian), so I'm hardly going to shout 'racist' lightly.

I remember a couple of seasons ago, I was accused of being racist by someone on here for not finding the song about Adebayor's dad washing elephants racist, in part because I'd never heard of 'elephant washer' as an insult used for Indians, and didn't think that would have a direct racist connotation to a Togolese...

sheep, sheep, sheepshagger!

[Sister of fu]

It doesn't make her sound like a 'massive bigot' at all.

Actually, you're right, I misread/interpreted it. Apologies Fu.

Apology accepted.

I’m not trying to upset anyone but it’s annoyed me this week when certain elements of the media and other people claming that there isn’t really an issue and the bits of footage that were shown were isolated or sensationalising.

I don’t care if it’s isolated or not but two thousand people doing the Nazi salute in a choreographed fashion is not isolated IMO. That was disgusting behaviour and anyone that says otherwise needs there head testing. As I have said, if that happened at a City game I would go mental and expect City do something about it, the Premier league to do something about it and ever other professional board involved in football to do something about it. I would want an example setting of my club and I would fully back them 100%.

Maybe one man army can help me and answer my questions.

Is any action ever taken in Poland against fans who do Nazi salutes or wear anti-Semitic t-shirts or sing songs about Jews??

Are there any campaigns like those in the UK to kick racism out of football??

[Wonderwall]

As I said in the post above, I misread/misinterpreted, and apologise to her.

So using your analogy of using public transport/learning to drive, because the EDL are rampant in said towns, it might not be safe to go to a football game anywhere in England? Nonsense.

These are right-wing extremists from low-income families in deprived areas, and are only motivated by 'crowd mentality'. Unless something is organised by the extreme right (which is an incredibly small minority in Poland- they have a lower proportion voting for the far right than we do for BNP), they'll just stay at home, shouting at the foreigners they see on TV. I must stress, I'm speaking about Poland here. Ukraine is a different kettle of fish.

If someone made a documentary about the EDL's activity in Britain, and it aired on, say, a Swedish TV channel, edited to look like it was a problem rife in football everywhere in the country, I'm sure a large number on here would be equally as indignant as One Man Army.

So you are saying its not a problem?