***England v Italy Thread***

[blues2win]

I know you're a fan of Carroll's Ted but I don't think he's a top class international centre forward. He's no Cavani ( please buy him!) I don't fault Hodgson for bringing him on but his presence encouraged early long balls and he couldn't manage to bring others into play so the ball kept coming back. Rooney was shite but I don't think Carroll can escape criticism entirely. At least he tried; Young and Walcott were anonymous and Rooney was shockingly bad given what was expected of him.

[Swales4ever]

i see the point re. the nazis still to face a tight defence, but italy will meet them with half the team shatterd, a possible forfait by derossi, don't know how montolivo reat to having played 120 min after a long spell of absence.
ok, germans aren't great at the back, but prior to pose a serious threat to them and put 'em under pressure You have to take you have to push back those front six... cant see italy up for that, phisically wise at least

[gillie]

I know you're a fan of Carroll's Ted but I don't think he's a top class international centre forward. He's no Cavani ( please buy him!) I don't fault Hodgson for bringing him on but his presence encouraged early long balls and he couldn't manage to bring others into play so the ball kept coming back. Rooney was shite but I don't think Carroll can escape criticism entirely. At least he tried; Young and Walcott were anonymous and Rooney was shockingly bad given what was expected of him.

Carroll did'nt bring players into the game because every time he won the ball he gave it to Shrek who fucked up the next passage of play.

[CityFanFromRome]

Well, it was a deserved win for Italy for sure, we were the better team for most of the time, England bossed us around in the first 15 minutes apart for DDR's great shot which hit the post, but then Italy got hold of the game and with more clinical finish we would have spared ourselves the added fatigue of the extra time and the nerves of the penalty shootout.

Now it's time to start thinking about Germany...but if Italy plays like tonight there's a chance to go through and meet Spain in the final (they will surely win against Portugal despite Tranny Boy being on form).

Mate well done tonight you deserved it but against the Germans no chance imo.But best of luck and hope you play a good game in the semi-final.

Yeah I know it's gonna be extra tough against Germany, especially because we seemed really tired at the end with three or four players affected by cramps, De Rossi forced to come off as well as Abate, Maggio will be suspended, and the extra time won't help our recover for Thursday. Still, I think if Italy plays like tonight we can at least create Germany many problems and we won't go out without a fight.

[Chinners]

Expectation too high again, this is a building phase (hopefully). Despite being under the cosh for most of the second half and extra time I thought there were some positives. I thought all of the back four were excellent. The problem in the main was the link (or lack of it) between midfield and the strikers. Yeah Young was poor again but ironically thought it was his best of the the games he played. Again I thought Milner worked hard but he's not a winger and has no chance of playing in his best position, in the middle running through (which is what we desperately lack imo) just like when he's played on the wing for us.

I was supprised at 3 of the penalty takers but they were obviously the best ones if we've been practicing like Roy said they had. Very dignified and "English" from Roy in his interview again, I'm quite liking him at the mo tbh and hope he gets a decent run at the job. Not what we are used to but the signs of unity are there which counts for alot in tournaments.

Oh well, WC qualifyers to win next.

Not a big fan of Italy but as least that will pish the Germans off a bit as they haven't beaten them for eons ... hee hee

[Ted Hughes]

Expectation too high again, this is a building phase (hopefully). Despite being under the cosh for most of the second half and extra time I thought there were some positives. I thought all of the back four were excellent. The problem in the main was the link (or lack of it) between midfield and the strikers. Yeah Young was poor again but ironically thought it was his best of the the games he played. Again I thought Milner worked hard but he's not a winger and has no chance of playing in his best position, in the middle running through (which is what we desperately lack imo) just like when he's played on the wing for us.

I was supprised at 3 of the penalty takers but they were obviously the best ones if we've been practicing like Roy said they had. Very dignified and "English" from Roy in his interview again, I'm quite liking him at the mo tbh and hope he gets a decent run at the job. Not what we are used to but the signs of unity are there which counts for alot in tournaments.

Oh well, WC qualifyers to win next.

Not a big fan of Italy but as least that will pish the Germans off a bit as they haven't beaten them for eons ... hee hee

Not a building excercise imo. Just an attempt at avoiding embarrassment. Lescott, Terry. Gerrard, Parker (plus Lampard & Scholes would have gone if available) are the spine of the team & barring possibly Lescott at a stretch, would surely not be playing in the next World Cup. Neither will 4-4-2 be a viable system in the heat of Brazil but we will probably plod on through the qualifiers with the same outlook.

We have just wasted years with Capello & are now about to waste more years with Hodgson, unless he retires soon & hands over to a younger man with modern ideas who can build with young players.

Personally I would just keep Hart out of that lot but the rags are compulsory picks.

[Bear60]

Never thought I would ever say this but I just Cant be arsed with watching England anymore. Fuck em

[halnone]

Young should take some penalty taking lessons from Pirlo

[david yearsley]

Never thought I would ever say this but I just Cant be arsed with watching England anymore. Fuck em

Correct - the FA don´t give 2 hoots about the fans so why should we give a shit when we refuse to join the 21st century and produce players who can control , pass and move in an instant. We are the footballing masterdoms becoming extinct in the ice age. It beggars belief but as long as City progress they can lick my scrotum. Just peeves me to see the Germans , Spanish , Italians et al actually give a flying about their national sides

[Chinners]

On the plus side, what a nice change to see all 11 players singing the national anthem ... even the usually boycotting rags

[Dameerto]

Expectation too high again, this is a building phase (hopefully). Despite being under the cosh for most of the second half and extra time I thought there were some positives. I thought all of the back four were excellent. The problem in the main was the link (or lack of it) between midfield and the strikers. Yeah Young was poor again but ironically thought it was his best of the the games he played. Again I thought Milner worked hard but he's not a winger and has no chance of playing in his best position, in the middle running through (which is what we desperately lack imo) just like when he's played on the wing for us.

I was supprised at 3 of the penalty takers but they were obviously the best ones if we've been practicing like Roy said they had. Very dignified and "English" from Roy in his interview again, I'm quite liking him at the mo tbh and hope he gets a decent run at the job. Not what we are used to but the signs of unity are there which counts for alot in tournaments.

Oh well, WC qualifyers to win next.

Not a big fan of Italy but as least that will pish the Germans off a bit as they haven't beaten them for eons ... hee hee

Not a building excercise imo. Just an attempt at avoiding embarrassment. Lescott, Terry. Gerrard, Parker (plus Lampard & Scholes would have gone if available) are the spine of the team & barring possibly Lescott at a stretch, would surely not be playing in the next World Cup. Neither will 4-4-2 be a viable system in the heat of Brazil but we will probably plod on through the qualifiers with the same outlook.

We have just wasted years with Capello & are now about to waste more years with Hodgson, unless he retires soon & hands over to a younger man with modern ideas who can build with young players.

Personally I would just keep Hart out of that lot but the rags are compulsory picks.

We lost it because we were outmanned in midfield with noone to help out Parker and Gerrard, the end result was Gerrard cramping badly towards the end and Parker couldn't even see the game out. That's what happens with a rigid 4-4-2, too much is expected of the central midfielders and not enough attention can be paid to Pirlo. The latter point at least was spotted by Hodgson (when it was too late) and he moved Rooney to the very front and brought Carroll on to try and molest Pirlo (woh didn't like the look of him at all) but it was too little too late. Our midfield (as planned by Hodgson) cost us the win. The fewking game was winnable and with the players he fielded too.

[phips]

One of the worst games of the tourney...so hard to watch. England were unbelievably negative. This parking the bus stuff is bullshit.

[twosips]

I don't think we were left with any option. We're just not THAT good...we haven't got the composure or class on the ball. We're miles behind Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal etc when it comes to being comfortable on the ball.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

We lost it because we were outmanned in midfield with noone to help out Parker and Gerrard, the end result was Gerrard cramping badly towards the end and Parker couldn't even see the game out. That's what happens with a rigid 4-4-2, too much is expected of the central midfielders and not enough attention can be paid to Pirlo. The latter point at least was spotted by Hodgson (when it was too late) and he moved Rooney to the very front and brought Carroll on to try and molest Pirlo (woh didn't like the look of him at all) but it was too little too late. Our midfield (as planned by Hodgson) cost us the win. The fewking game was winnable and with the players he fielded too.

This is more or less what I tried to say earlier about England performances and you claimed I was looking for chance "to gloat" about England losing. I still don't get why I would gloat about something like that? Just neutrals opinion.

Again, Hodgson plays exactly the same kind of dead boring outdated 4-4-2 football he had Finland playing when he was in charge. No fresh ideas and no risk taking. Now this football will probably take you to World Cup and maybe even out of the group there but it will NEVER win you anything. Sure you will never fall completely flat with it either.

[johnny crossan]

Anybody else catch the exchange when Lineker turned on Hansen about "juvenile back references" in the pre-match build up? Earlier Hansen said that Mario had won nothing, Dixon came back with "The Championship?" then turkey neck opined that City only won it because Balotelli got banned after being sent off at Arsenal. They then went to some pre-recorded stuff and the incident occurred just as they came back.

Or did I imagine this?

[Slim]

Anybody else catch the exchange when Lineker turned on Hansen about "juvenile back references" in the pre-match build up? Earlier Hansen said that Mario had won nothing, Dixon came back with "The Championship?" then turkey neck opined that City only won it because Balotelli got banned after being sent off at Arsenal. They then went to some pre-recorded stuff and the incident occurred just as they came back.

Or did I imagine this?

3 league titles in Italy, 1 in England, Coppa Italia, FA Cup and the Champions League. No doubt he was banned for all of them.

[Avalon]

I didn't see that, but I did wonder why Alan said that. Me and my mate went on and said that he just won the Prem with City.

On a side note, my god, Pirlo was amazing. A whopping 131 passes and a total distance run of 12km at the age of 33 and to top if it off, his cute little penalty kick. I've always considered Pirlo to be one of the best midfielders in the world, but at his age, he's easily still one of the best.

[Goaters 103]

Anybody else catch the exchange when Lineker turned on Hansen about "juvenile back references" in the pre-match build up? Earlier Hansen said that Mario had won nothing, Dixon came back with "The Championship?" then turkey neck opined that City only won it because Balotelli got banned after being sent off at Arsenal. They then went to some pre-recorded stuff and the incident occurred just as they came back.

Or did I imagine this?

3 league titles in Italy, 1 in England, Coppa Italia, FA Cup and the Champions League. No doubt he was banned for all of them.

Shearer said Balotelli "hadnt achieved anything in the game" - Lets look at those stats Alan - in your entire career you won 1 medal, 1995 Premier League Winners.

Maio Balotelli is 21 and has played 3 seasons with Inter Milan and 2 with Manchester City. He has so far won 3 Italian Scudetto winners medals, 1 Italian Cup Medal, 1 Champions League winners medal; he then transfers to City and in his first 2 years in England he's won an FA Cup winners medal and a Premier League Champions medal.

If you are scoring at home, at the age of 21 Mario Balotelli has already won 6 times the honours Shearer did in his 17 year career. Do us a favour Alan, f**k off you ill-informed dickhead. Balotelli has many faults, but failure to win medals isnt one of them. He has a bloody careers worth of them already.

[john68]

England = Organisation and energy. Once the energy levels drain, the organisation becomes more and more compromised. It isn't new, it has been going on for years and we have been failing for years.
How can a professional footballer who has been coached from an early age on almost a daily basis, be unable to make a simple pass over a few yards accurately and at the correct pace, be unable to control a ball when it arrives at his feet or, be unable to time a simple jump to coincide with the arrival of a ball to his head? These are not advanced skills, they are the very basic abilities every footballer should have and be able to do instinctively and almost without thought. I see children and pub players who do this week after week.

Young is useless. Thank fuck he plays for the rags, he qualifies for all of the above as does Rooney. That goal that Rooney scored in the competition was a simple tap/head in that can be seen done in any park or school playing field.

I have no doubt about the skills of Mr Pirlo, his vision, range and scope of passing is excellent but much of it was achieved under little or no pressure whatsoever. The number of times that Pirlo stood unchallenged, not a few yards away from either Wellbeck or Rooney and was able to pick his options, whilst they strolled back only a few yards behind him became uncountable. Just 2 or 3 paces towards him to create a threat and add a bit of pressure.

Clueless and lazy. Thank God they are rags.

[Lev Bronstein]

I'm too much of a mongrel to get wound one way or the other about England. I'm happy to see them win, but I don't feel like slitting my wrist when they lose.

Any way, reading this and other forums it seems to me that more or less the same things are said every time England exit a competition - just the names change. A few things spring to mind though.

1) Only 30% of Prem players are qualified to play for England. That still makes 150 to choose from, surely you can get 25 decent players from that number!

2) Poor skill level. True, true, true, oh so true. (see John 68). But we watch these players week in week out and they aren't that bad. What goes on when they wear a white shirt?

3) Keeping the ball. It always strikes me that when an England player receives the ball, support is too far away. So, no simple lay off and therefore easy for the opposition to get it back.

4) Squad selection. I know many shook their head when Micah and AJ (and a couple of others) didn't make the squad, but I doubt that England would have been much better, or much different if they'd been selected.

5) Team selection. Why try to play an obviously unfit Rooney or an ineffective Young? I suppose because that the manager thinks they can produce that bit of magic (not just the manager either). It's a long list of semi-injured, unfit or made of glass players that get taken to tounaments or are considered undropable: Owen, Beckham, Robson, - that's just the first three that come to my mind.

6) Tactics. Just seem so antiquated compared to the top nations - ok, maybe England don't have the players, and maybe it's the right thing to do to make the team difficult to beat but at least they could be a bit more flexible. After 20 mins in most games England seem to be sussed.

7) Fans/Media expectations. Usually laughably optimistic, anyone who doubts Englands ability to win is spitting in the face of the nation and deserves beating or a treason trial. At least this time they were at a sensible level. At least until the knockout stage. Then we had the usual "Joe/Stevie, can England win it?" crap from the journos - to which Joe/Stevie give the sort of stock answers that England players have been saying for years.

Any way, rambling done for the next two years. Although given past history I'll just have to copy and paste everything that's been said this time.