Young

Here is the place to talk about all things city and football!

Re: Young

Postby Bridge'srightfoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:22 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Walcott's '5 seconds of quality' led to a goal and assist and turned the game around.
He poses far more of a threat than Milner does.

Who was more threatening yesterday?

Neither.
To be a quality right winger you either need pace and dribbling ability or be a bloody good crosser. Milner has neither. I don't think walcott's great, I just think he poses more of a threat.

Take your blue tinted specs off, him and Young have been shite the whole tournament.


Milner was playing as a right sided midfielder. Just because he's on the right doesn't necessarily mean he's playing as a winger. Silva or Nasri play on our right but neither of them perform a winger's role.

As for Milner being shite, I disagree. He's not been very good but far from shite. Young on the other hand.....

I don't wear specs myself.

Perhaps calling him shite is too strong. But I just don't think Milner as a right sided mifielder poses a threat. I mean can you see any fullbacks worrying greatly at the thought of playing him?
Oxlade would have been a better option. We should be playing wingers/right midfielders for their attacking abilities, not defensive ones.
Bridge'srightfoot
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3996
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Supporter of: City

Re: Young

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:47 pm

Did you actually watch what Oxlump did as opposed to dreaming of what he might do ? Have you watched what he does for Arsenal ? I'll give you a clue he gets the ball & the crowd go "OOOOHHHHHHHH....then GO ON, then ohhhhhhhh" applause "hard luck" as he runs head first into a wall of defenders.

He's worse right now, than SWP is right now. Neil Lennon is a class above him.

Same with Walcott. He is almost always fucking useless for England & Arsenal, almost every game he plays. He does something once every 15 starts or once every 10 as sub.

Milner was average in two games & good yesterday. He was miles better going forward than Walcott has been for the whole tournament apart from his flukey 5 seconds. It will be about another 8 games before Walcott does something else. The difference is, Milner will also defend. Neither should be playig wide for England & neither can lace AJ's boots but that's england selection for you.
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

VIVA EL CITY !!!

Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
Ted Hughes
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:28 pm
Supporter of: Bill Turnbull
My favourite player is: Bill Turnbull

Re: Young

Postby Rag_hater » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:26 pm

I thought going forward he was like the rest of them, pretty gash, but I think he did his defensive duties quite well and, as I think the tactic was to do a chavski having Young made sense.
Image
Rag_hater
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5470
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:24 pm
Location: Alicante Spain

Re: Young

Postby Bridge'srightfoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:02 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:Did you actually watch what Oxlump did as opposed to dreaming of what he might do ? Have you watched what he does for Arsenal ? I'll give you a clue he gets the ball & the crowd go "OOOOHHHHHHHH....then GO ON, then ohhhhhhhh" applause "hard luck" as he runs head first into a wall of defenders.

He's worse right now, than SWP is right now. Neil Lennon is a class above him.

Same with Walcott. He is almost always fucking useless for England & Arsenal, almost every game he plays. He does something once every 15 starts or once every 10 as sub.

Milner was average in two games & good yesterday. He was miles better going forward than Walcott has been for the whole tournament apart from his flukey 5 seconds. It will be about another 8 games before Walcott does something else. The difference is, Milner will also defend. Neither should be playig wide for England & neither can lace AJ's boots but that's england selection for you.


When United beat Arsenal 2-1, you said that United won because Wenger took Oxlade off. You've changed your tune. Can't be that useless if you claim they lost because they took him off. SWP is not as good, nor is Lennon.

Walcott's flukey 5 seconds led to a goal and assist and changed the game.
Milner's 'good game' did nothing.
Bridge'srightfoot
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3996
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Supporter of: City

Re: Young

Postby Mingchester Mingy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:17 pm

freshie wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:It's wrong isn't it. I like football to be about football, not about who brings in the masses.

Young has been gash all tournament but Hodgson felt that he had to keep in on, even though he put us under pressure with every touch. I championed Hodgson as I thought he'd be his own man, how very wrong can someone be.

Mario though, had a cracking gamem well done that man. Seems to have grown up this game.


I lost any respect I had for Hodgson when he left Micah out of the squad. His decisions tonight have not changed my mind


Hammer on the Head . 100% Agree. Plus, whats up with Rooney in International play? He sucks !
Mingchester Mingy
Richard Edghill Whipping Boy
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:18 pm
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: David Silva

Re: Young

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Did you actually watch what Oxlump did as opposed to dreaming of what he might do ? Have you watched what he does for Arsenal ? I'll give you a clue he gets the ball & the crowd go "OOOOHHHHHHHH....then GO ON, then ohhhhhhhh" applause "hard luck" as he runs head first into a wall of defenders.

He's worse right now, than SWP is right now. Neil Lennon is a class above him.

Same with Walcott. He is almost always fucking useless for England & Arsenal, almost every game he plays. He does something once every 15 starts or once every 10 as sub.

Milner was average in two games & good yesterday. He was miles better going forward than Walcott has been for the whole tournament apart from his flukey 5 seconds. It will be about another 8 games before Walcott does something else. The difference is, Milner will also defend. Neither should be playig wide for England & neither can lace AJ's boots but that's england selection for you.


When United beat Arsenal 2-1, you said that United won because Wenger took Oxlade off. You've changed your tune. Can't be that useless if you claim they lost because they took him off. SWP is not as good, nor is Lennon.

Walcott's flukey 5 seconds led to a goal and assist and changed the game.
Milner's 'good game' did nothing.


He did play well v Utd & was making the difference. Samaras played well v West Ham. Your point is ?

That's just shite about walcott btw. It's Milner's fault they miss when he passes to them ? Bollocks.
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

VIVA EL CITY !!!

Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
Ted Hughes
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:28 pm
Supporter of: Bill Turnbull
My favourite player is: Bill Turnbull

Re: Young

Postby Wonderwall » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:07 pm

In my opinion the best english player last night was johnson. There was a reason for this and its james milner. He is a great team player, however, how much did jojnson get forward when wallycott came on? Never!! Sounds like someone is being very selective in pidgeon holing milner into something he isnt for the purposes of their argument.
User avatar
Wonderwall
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28928
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:58 pm
Location: Sale
Supporter of: Gods own team

Re: Young

Postby Beefymcfc » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:18 pm

Wonderwall wrote:In my opinion the best english player last night was johnson. There was a reason for this and its james milner. He is a great team player, however, how much did jojnson get forward when wallycott came on? Never!! Sounds like someone is being very selective in pidgeon holing milner into something he isnt for the purposes of their argument.

There was a point last night where Milner was just outside the 18 yard box where he tried a pass to Johnson who had just cut inside him. The pass was intercepted and usually where Milner would chase it down and try to get the ball back (it was only 5 yards away) he turned immediately to his own goal and started sprinting back, obviously to cover for Johnson who got back into position 20 seconds later. It was quite clear what his orders were and that he'd been given the shittiest of tasks by Hodgson. To forsake your own game to wet-nurse your right-sided partner was a big ask, but he handled it professionally and resolutely.

His best game by far and to be hauled off was the biggest fuck-up I think I've ever witnessed in an England game. Young did nothing in the 330 minutes running up to that point but was somehow seen as the better option. How people come to these decisions I will never know but I'm sure it's nothing to do with football.
In the words of my Old Man, "Life will never be the same without Man City, so get it in while you can".

The Future's Bright, The Future's Blue!!!
User avatar
Beefymcfc
Anna Connell's Vision
 
Posts: 46711
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:14 am
Supporter of: The Mighty Blues

Re: Young

Postby zuricity » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Wonderwall wrote:In my opinion the best english player last night was johnson. There was a reason for this and its james milner. He is a great team player, however, how much did jojnson get forward when wallycott came on? Never!! Sounds like someone is being very selective in pidgeon holing milner into something he isnt for the purposes of their argument.


very fair points... Milner certainly was not the ideal candidate for substitution, particulary for Walcott.
zuricity
Allison's Big Fat Cigar
 
Posts: 18418
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:54 pm
Location: Zuerich,ch

Re: Young

Postby bernabias_right_boot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Wonderwall wrote:In my opinion the best english player last night was johnson. There was a reason for this and its james milner. He is a great team player, however, how much did jojnson get forward when wallycott came on? Never!! Sounds like someone is being very selective in pidgeon holing milner into something he isnt for the purposes of their argument.


I totally saw that last night. As soon as Milner came off Johnson stopped going forward and did quite a good job of defending.
bernabias_right_boot
Darius Vassell's Composure
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent
Supporter of: CTID
My favourite player is: Carlito

Re: Young

Postby spiny » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:31 pm

The problem with watching football on tv is the cameras follow the ball missing a lot of what is going on. Milner has his limitations but I thought he was the best England player on and off the ball for the first 30 minutes when we actually threatened.

I couldnt believe when Roy Hodgson put on Carrol and Walcott but left Young and Rooney on the pitch who had consistently lost possession and posed little threat. It seemed sensible that Milner would have been moved inside to bolster midfield and close down Pirlo leaving Carrol upfront, Welbeck and Walcott behind and/or wide switching wings.

Roy Hodgson remains commited to two banks of four in safe. disciplined and dull 4-4-2. This apart I didnt see anything in the contribution of Young that merited him being played in all four matches. I dont see anything in his game beyond a one trick pony that wont cut it at international level. The problem is the Rags have had the best group of players for years so the likes of Young and Rooney look better against lesser opposition. In turn this drives the media hype. How many players move to the rags or Liverpool to become instant internationals when ignored at their previous clubs? eg Young at Villa.

Hodgson did Young no favours by consistently keeping him on when he was not showing with or without the ball. The more he played the worse Young became. Lets hope Young and Rooney take their lack of form into the next season.
spiny
Micah Richard's Penalty Dives
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:00 pm
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: Sergio Agüero

Re: Young

Postby dick dastardley » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:12 am

spiny wrote:The problem with watching football on tv is the cameras follow the ball missing a lot of what is going on. Milner has his limitations but I thought he was the best England player on and off the ball for the first 30 minutes when we actually threatened.

I couldnt believe when Roy Hodgson put on Carrol and Walcott but left Young and Rooney on the pitch who had consistently lost possession and posed little threat. It seemed sensible that Milner would have been moved inside to bolster midfield and close down Pirlo leaving Carrol upfront, Welbeck and Walcott behind and/or wide switching wings.

Roy Hodgson remains commited to two banks of four in safe. disciplined and dull 4-4-2. This apart I didnt see anything in the contribution of Young that merited him being played in all four matches. I dont see anything in his game beyond a one trick pony that wont cut it at international level. The problem is the Rags have had the best group of players for years so the likes of Young and Rooney look better against lesser opposition. In turn this drives the media hype. How many players move to the rags or Liverpool to become instant internationals when ignored at their previous clubs? eg Young at Villa.

Hodgson did Young no favours by consistently keeping him on when he was not showing with or without the ball. The more he played the worse Young became. Lets hope Young and Rooney take their lack of form into the next season.


you hit the nail on the head, players like smalling and and henderson etc probably were the best players for their previous clubs but the previous clubs were probably shite so they stand out.
the big club buys them thinking they are world class when actually they are above average players. And just because they play for 'nited' they automatically become world class!!
Its been like this for years the england scouts need a complete overhaul saying to themselves, bollox to who they play for,
A. are they good enough for England
B. can they improve
C. dont be swayed by media hype of the player
Support the badge, players come and go along with managers!!!
User avatar
dick dastardley
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7166
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:14 pm
Location: city of manchester where else !!!

Re: Young

Postby london blue 2 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:26 am

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Walcott's '5 seconds of quality' led to a goal and assist and turned the game around.
He poses far more of a threat than Milner does.

Who was more threatening yesterday?

Neither.
To be a quality right winger you either need pace and dribbling ability or be a bloody good crosser. Milner has neither. I don't think walcott's great, I just think he poses more of a threat.

Take your blue tinted specs off, him and Young have been shite the whole tournament.

No blue specs, Milner has been shit all tournament. However yesterday was his best performance of the tournament and he got subbed after 61 minutes.

Walcott got 32 minutes of normal time and 30 minutes of extra time to make an impression, he did what he usually does for England which is fuck all.

Milner was clearly more of a threat than road runner, he also defended better which led to other players being more of a threat. Anyone who cant see that is a fucking idiot.
london blue 2
Paul Power's Tash
 
Posts: 10339
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:32 am
Location: london
Supporter of: MCFC

Re: Young

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:32 am

@BRF, here's a good blog piece explaining exactly what Milner brings to the team.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... er-england

There was a minor but still quietly fevered selection debate before England's last Group D match against Ukraine. The only subject up for discussion seemed to be: would Theo Walcott play? And if he did, how would this affect Theo Walcott? Would Theo Walcott, for example, be only half the player without the fabled "tired legs" of Sweden? Tellingly, an almost negligible mount of energy was devoted to considering the simultaneous effects of James Milner not playing. Instead Milner was present only as a shade of beige, a makeweight in England's projected tactical expansion, expected simply to disappear quietly into necessary obsolescence like an abandoned roadside sofa bed.

And yet Milner did play on Tuesday and he will probably play on Sunday against Italy in what is both England's biggest game for six years and the most high-profile occasion in the career of Roy Hodgson. There is no surprise here because Milner has already established himself as, if not the outstanding player of early-Hodgson England, then a familiar trope: the fall-back player, the comfortable chair, a shoulder to grasp in those tottering moments. Most England managers have one and for Hodgson it appears to be Milner, who remains a perversely fascinating footballer, if only for his total lack of fascination, not so much an unsung hero as semi-sung not-quite hero, the mystery workaholic.

Poor old Milner. On the face of it his contribution simply slips through the cracks. Have a look at his personal stats from the Ukraine game. Milner completed nine passes (yes: nine) in 69 minutes of furiously involved midfield play. To put this into context, Steven Gerrard ended up with 53. Milner committed three fouls. He (apparently) had one shot at goal. And that's pretty much it. On Uefa's numerical record of events he almost fails to register, a ghost player draped in his own invisibility cloak of continual peripheral motion.

Despite all of this, Milner has still managed to remain a largely uncontested selection. The reason generally given is a grudging one, a tessellation of right-sided inadequacies with poor old Glen Johnson, who is being talked about during this tournament as though he is simply an ingenious deception on England's part, a papier-mache mock-up of an international right-back with a balloon for a head and broom handles for legs, somehow passing muster under the stares of the camp guards, and held upright only by the selflessly ventriloquising Milner.

Of course there is more to it than this. Mainly, the big thing about Milner is that he runs a lot. Not only this, he runs in well-grooved patterns, like a faithful Ukrainian trolley bus set on its virtuously unswerving course. The numbers are well known: in England's first match he ran 1.4km more than anyone else, and was heading towards doing the same before being substituted in the last two. Uefa's analysis graphics depict him as a static blob, but really Milner's blob should be blurred with motion lines, reflecting an approach that basically involves embarking on a series of unrelenting sprints from box to box, like a man very stubbornly doing lengths of a swimming pool while a water polo match goes on all around him.

This is a quality the English often take for granted, whereas in Italy, for example, Milner might already have been granted a reverential nickname like "the Woodlouse" or "the Marching Gnome" or "Tiny Soldier-Legs".

Happily though, he does have at least one staunch supporter. For Hodgson, seven weeks in the job, Milner has been his rock, his Jeeves, his faithful hatstand. Understandably so: Milner's intelligence means he can take on board a hastily imposed game plan and his dedication means he sticks to it. He is perhaps not Mr Right in the confusing scheme of greater, grander domination, but he is an excellent Mr Right Now.

It would be wrong, though, to paint Milner as a bloodless figure, some clanking iron man emerging from the sea with a tractor in each fist. In fact he has two qualities often missing in English footballers, tactical intelligence and physical robustness. This is a man who has played more than 500 professional matches at the age of 26 and claims to have never allowed a drop of alcohol to pass his lips. What imperious puritan resolve!

His role with England is also deceptively vital. There is a filibustering quality to his guided hustle, granting a sense of control that is essential for a manager who appears to have decided that if this cautious England are to win games here they must above all avoid conceding the first goal. Milner is key to maintaining parity in those fraught opening minutes, which in three matches so far have been notable for the oddly captivating spectacle of his ever-scurrying legs.

The role of the dependable serf, the royal butler, is a familiar one in the history of England managerdom. Alf Ramsey united his dressing room by defending Nobby Stiles after his dreadful tackle on the France midfielder Jacques Simon at the 1966 World Cup. Sven-Goran Eriksson had his Heskey-curious side, but perhaps Sven's Milner was instead Nick Barmby, another shrewd Mr Fix-it midfielder with an air of pachyderm obedience, and an emblem of the good times before the stasis of late-Sven midfield celebrity-gorge. Graham Taylor is remembered for his improbables, the revolving door of one-night stands and pressed men during a period when England's whole world seemed to turn a shade of Andy Sinton. This was Taylor's problem. He never found his Milner.

Happily Hodgson already has: Milner is his Milner. And who knows, against Italy The Trolleybus might even impose himself a little more. Maybe he will run 2km more than anyone else this time. Maybe he will make 10 passes or even – steady now – finally score his first England goal. Either way, for all the grudging praise it is still hard to imagine England progressing if Milner doesn't contribute by playing to the very limit of his invisibilities.
Foreverinbluedreams
Denis Law's Backheel
 
Posts: 9224
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: Young

Postby Bridge'srightfoot » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:20 am

Still don't think he poses a threat. As hard as he works no fullback will fear playing him.
He's not a right winger/ right sided midfielder or whatever you call it.
If he plays there he will produce average displays as he has done for City, Villa and England. His strengths lie in the middle.
Bridge'srightfoot
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3996
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Supporter of: City

Re: Young

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:45 am

Perhaps Micah might convince you:

". If I play with James Milner on the right, I can go forward as much as I like because I just know he will run back and fill in for me. He is a dream to play with. In the 6-1 (against United) I was going forward for fun because I knew James would cover for me. Every time I play with Milner it's so easy. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... d-cry.html
Foreverinbluedreams
Denis Law's Backheel
 
Posts: 9224
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: Young

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:55 am

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Still don't think he poses a threat. As hard as he works no fullback will fear playing him.
He's not a right winger/ right sided midfielder or whatever you call it.
If he plays there he will produce average displays as he has done for City, Villa and England. His strengths lie in the middle.


That's true but no fullback fears any of England's options. They produce nothing. Milner produces just as much but also does a job. The only England wide player to regularly create & play quality intelligent football is Adam Johnson. All the quality he produces or attempts to produce is is always eclipsed by some headless no mark sprinting ten yards & whacking a ball in v Outer Mongolia. Last time it was Sturridge but it could be Walcott, Oxbrain, Lennon, SWP. "Ohh go on lad...ooh hard luck " "that's more like it".

Milner does that headless charging job just as well as any of those brainless clowns but also works back. If he is to be replaced, it should be by someone good, with a brain.
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

VIVA EL CITY !!!

Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
Ted Hughes
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:28 pm
Supporter of: Bill Turnbull
My favourite player is: Bill Turnbull

Re: Young

Postby Alex Sapphire » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:02 am

isn't Milner the only Englishman ever who's got two feet?
Never criticise a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
That way when you do criticise him you'll be a mile away.
And you'll have his shoes.


Ἄνδρες γάρ πόλις, καί οὐ τείχη
User avatar
Alex Sapphire
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5758
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:02 am

Re: Young

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:06 am

Alex Sapphire wrote:isn't Milner the only Englishman ever who's got two feet?


That his one of the real crimes of English football & not enough is made of it.
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

VIVA EL CITY !!!

Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
Ted Hughes
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:28 pm
Supporter of: Bill Turnbull
My favourite player is: Bill Turnbull

Re: Young

Postby Blue Since 76 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:05 pm

Alex Sapphire wrote:isn't Milner the only Englishman ever who's got two feet?


Just checked and I've got two. But I am part Italian, so perhaps that's where my left one has come from.

I'm surprised there aren't more disabled parking bays everywhere in England though.
Blue Since 76
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5965
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:37 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Maine Football forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ayrshireblue, Beanieboy, Bluemoon4610, city72, CTID Hants, Google [Bot], Hazy2, john@staustell, Mase, Nickyboy, Nigels Tackle, PeterParker, Scatman, sheblue, stupot and 211 guests