EDS and Scouting changes

[Alex Sapphire]

This might need merging, but it looks like all change behind the scenes and we have some new scoutsafter the recent exodus:

Lombardo and Arnesen

Andy Welsh has been sacked from his role in charge of the Elite Development Squad and replaced by Lombardo as part of a root-and-branch restructuring ordered by the Abu Dhabi owners and supported by manager Roberto Mancini.

City have brought in scouts Sebastian Arnesen and Jan Ricka - both of whom used to work for Chelsea - as they look to improve their scouting network, with the latter, in particular, considered an expert in Eastern European countries including Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Their arrivals follow the resignation of Mike Rigg as technical director in April, while senior scouts Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter have left City for roles at Liverpool.

[aaron bond]

It makes sense that the club continue to revamp our academy. As much as it has served us well in the past, the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. Perhaps if you're being generous you can include SWP, but he never was a regular at Chelsea and he couldn't get into our FA Cup winning side and was soon moved on to QPR.

After our poor showing in the NextGen tournament, we clearly have a long way to go to be able to regularly produce top class players so the board obviously think the current set-up isn't good enough.

Hopefully we'll see the benefits of these changes coming through in the next few years as it's always great to have young players coming through the ranks, at least not with FFP coming in. If we could have some English players coming through, even better!

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

It makes sense that the club continue to revamp our academy. As much as it has served us well in the past, the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. Perhaps if you're being generous you can include SWP, but he never was a regular at Chelsea and he couldn't get into our FA Cup winning side and was soon moved on to QPR.

After our poor showing in the NextGen tournament, we clearly have a long way to go to be able to regularly produce top class players so the board obviously think the current set-up isn't good enough.

Hopefully we'll see the benefits of these changes coming through in the next few years as it's always great to have young players coming through the ranks, at least not with FFP coming in. If we could have some English players coming through, even better!

Wow. Just wow.

Our Academy not only has produced players for our Premier League team at amazing rate but also kept us financially afloat through sales of Academy players.

It has only been couple of years that we have been able to attract top youth players and it will take another couple of years before we reap the benefits.

[aaron bond]

It makes sense that the club continue to revamp our academy. As much as it has served us well in the past, the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. Perhaps if you're being generous you can include SWP, but he never was a regular at Chelsea and he couldn't get into our FA Cup winning side and was soon moved on to QPR.

After our poor showing in the NextGen tournament, we clearly have a long way to go to be able to regularly produce top class players so the board obviously think the current set-up isn't good enough.

Hopefully we'll see the benefits of these changes coming through in the next few years as it's always great to have young players coming through the ranks, at least not with FFP coming in. If we could have some English players coming through, even better!

Wow. Just wow.

Our Academy not only has produced players for our Premier League team at amazing rate but also kept us financially afloat through sales of Academy players.

It has only been couple of years that we have been able to attract top youth players and it will take another couple of years before we reap the benefits.

Did you even read my post?

I said it has served us well in the past but that we needed to revamp our academy to start producing top class players over the next few years. What is so 'Wow. Just wow' about that? It's true.

[Dunnylad]

The rumours of Andy Welsh going have been around for a while, along with stories of his alienating players & actually being a shote coach - well what do you expect for an ex-rag, hopefully we've not wasted too long in getting rid as this recent batch hasn't quite pulled up the trees that the Cassell generation did

[patrickblue]

[quote="aaron bond"] the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. /quote]

What about Joey B. He played for England you know :)

[SteveHPage]

[QUOTE="patrickblue"][/QUOTE]

We bought him from Shrewsbury when he was 17. Hardly bringing him through our ranks.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

It makes sense that the club continue to revamp our academy. As much as it has served us well in the past, the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. Perhaps if you're being generous you can include SWP, but he never was a regular at Chelsea and he couldn't get into our FA Cup winning side and was soon moved on to QPR.

After our poor showing in the NextGen tournament, we clearly have a long way to go to be able to regularly produce top class players so the board obviously think the current set-up isn't good enough.

Hopefully we'll see the benefits of these changes coming through in the next few years as it's always great to have young players coming through the ranks, at least not with FFP coming in. If we could have some English players coming through, even better!

Wow. Just wow.

Our Academy not only has produced players for our Premier League team at amazing rate but also kept us financially afloat through sales of Academy players.

It has only been couple of years that we have been able to attract top youth players and it will take another couple of years before we reap the benefits.

Did you even read my post?

I said it has served us well in the past but that we needed to revamp our academy to start producing top class players over the next few years. What is so 'Wow. Just wow' about that? It's true.

Did YOU read my post? We haven't been able to attract the kind of talent in the past that could turn into world class players. This has fuck all to do with who runs the Academy but our status as a club.

[BlueinBosnia]

What about Joey B. He played for England you know :)

We bought him from Shrewsbury when he was 17. Hardly bringing him through our ranks.

I thought we bought him from CSKA Moscow?

[Wonderwall]

What about Joey B. He played for England you know :)

We bought him from Shrewsbury when he was 17. Hardly bringing him through our ranks.

I think you need to think again, or you have your players mixed up. Hart was a shrew.

[SteveHPage]

I think you need to think again, or you have your players mixed up. Hart was a shrew.

The problems of skim reading after 5 hours of interrupted sleep due to two week old daughter. Doh!

[Slim]

What about Joey B. He played for England you know :)

We bought him from Shrewsbury when he was 17. Hardly bringing him through our ranks.

I think you need to think again, or you have your players mixed up. Hart was a shrew.

And Joey came to us from Everton at the age of 15.

[Ted Hughes]

It makes sense that the club continue to revamp our academy. As much as it has served us well in the past, the reality is that we have only ever produced 1 player who is good enough to play for a top class side - Micah. Perhaps if you're being generous you can include SWP, but he never was a regular at Chelsea and he couldn't get into our FA Cup winning side and was soon moved on to QPR.

After our poor showing in the NextGen tournament, we clearly have a long way to go to be able to regularly produce top class players so the board obviously think the current set-up isn't good enough.

Hopefully we'll see the benefits of these changes coming through in the next few years as it's always great to have young players coming through the ranks, at least not with FFP coming in. If we could have some English players coming through, even better!

Wow. Just wow.

Our Academy not only has produced players for our Premier League team at amazing rate but also kept us financially afloat through sales of Academy players.

It has only been couple of years that we have been able to attract top youth players and it will take another couple of years before we reap the benefits.

Did you even read my post?

I said it has served us well in the past but that we needed to revamp our academy to start producing top class players over the next few years. What is so 'Wow. Just wow' about that? It's true.

Did YOU read my post? We haven't been able to attract the kind of talent in the past that could turn into world class players. This has fuck all to do with who runs the Academy but our status as a club.

I used to be a big supporter of the academy & sing its praises but it was actually during an argument on here whilst I was praising our academy & slagging the rags', that someone made me think about what we have actually achieved.

I considered the point & from then on, it's hit home to me that our academy is only highly rated because most others are fucking shit as well. It's been nothing short of a disaster, as have most clubs' systems.

Whilst there has been a real lack of quality raw material, the raw talent we did find have all come through riddled with bad habits & totally uneducated in how to actually play football. They reach the first team playing like 12 year olds rather than 20 year olds & have to basically learn everything from scratch.

I think those guys in the past produced players in keeping with their ability as coaches: Championship standard.

In the old days, our one man & his dog system used to find talented kids & turn them into internationals. The academy system turned them in to big headed, second rate, unprofessionals. I'm glad we've ripped it up & are starting again.

[Yffi_88]

Think it says a lot that a fair few of the players featured in the "Graduates" thing they did on the OS are now all playing lower league or looking for new clubs.

When we were fighting for mid league places and we had homegrown players shining in the team it was most definitely a reason to be proud, but when the dust has settled and we can look back on things, we never really had any outstanding talent (although SWP was about as close as it gets and will always be a legend to me).

I agree with Ted that we were probably the best of a bad bunch.

Things WILL change though, i think that's one thing that is obvious with Mansour's plans.

[Ted Hughes]

Think it says a lot that a fair few of the players featured in the "Graduates" thing they did on the OS are now all playing lower league or looking for new clubs.

When we were fighting for mid league places and we had homegrown players shining in the team it was most definitely a reason to be proud, but when the dust has settled and we can look back on things, we never really had any outstanding talent (although SWP was about as close as it gets and will always be a legend to me).

I agree with Ted that we were probably the best of a bad bunch.

Things WILL change though, i think that's one thing that is obvious with Mansour's plans.

If you look at the players who 'made it' to some extent. Most of them are the lads with power or pace or both (& the smaller lads SWP, Sturridge were poached from elsewhere).

Ireland is the only lad I can think of who doesn't fit that mould. The most complete footballer would have been Michael Johnson & he learned his football stuff abroad, but learned indiscipline whilst at City, which says it all really.

[BlueinBosnia]

Doesn't the academy cost just shy of £2m per year to run?

It's been going for about 15 years, we've had well over 1,000 appearances made for our first team by its graduates (Richards, Barton and SWP alone count for over 500), plus fees (of varying sizes) for many, many players, as well as at least one (2 or 3?) tribunal payout.

It's turning a profit, giving youngsters a chance, and we get the odd player who makes the grade once every 3 or 4 seasons. At the top end of the Premiership.

Considering the poor mentality this country has towards youth coaching, I'd say that, as a club, we're doing rather well.

On the flip side, we're never going to be able to offer South American kids the same social and/or educational opportunities as clubs in Spain or Portugal, or West African kids (Ghana, Nigeria and bits of Cameroon aside) the same as in France. Therefore, we either need to look at club partnerships for our youth setup (possibly fielding a youth team or affiliated youth team in a foreign league?), or deliver a massive USP- that would be the NextGen, were we to take it seriously.

[Hazy2]

Sadly the local lad making it big will end pretty much with Gerrard, Carragher, Rags.

[BlueinBosnia]

Sadly the local lad making it big will end pretty much with Gerrard, Carragher, Rags.

I don't agree. As I said in my above post, I don't think we're ever going to be able to fully compete with French, Spanish and Portuguese clubs for youngsters from the 'football world' outside Europe- we simply can't offer the social and educational opportunities to youngsters that they would get in academies in countries speaking their mother tongue. Therefore, our best bet is concentrating on educating local/British kids, but in our own footballing way, not the one espoused by the FA for the past two decades or so (see John68's post from a few weeks ago called 'a couple of right Charlies', or something like that).

[Ted Hughes]

Sadly the local lad making it big will end pretty much with Gerrard, Carragher, Rags.

I don't agree. As I said in my above post, I don't think we're ever going to be able to fully compete with French, Spanish and Portuguese clubs for youngsters from the 'football world' outside Europe- we simply can't offer the social and educational opportunities to youngsters that they would get in academies in countries speaking their mother tongue. Therefore, our best bet is concentrating on educating local/British kids, but in our own footballing way, not the one espoused by the FA for the past two decades or so (see John68's post from a few weeks ago called 'a couple of right Charlies', or something like that).

I think our academy will be spectacular in the future, in every way, & I recon we'll find some Mancunians too. Imo, the coaching throughout English football has been the problem & it is changing. Our U15s last week, were playing a higher level of football than the20 year olds were doing under Cassell & Co.

[Hazy2]

Sadly the local lad making it big will end pretty much with Gerrard, Carragher, Rags.

I don't agree. As I said in my above post, I don't think we're ever going to be able to fully compete with French, Spanish and Portuguese clubs for youngsters from the 'football world' outside Europe- we simply can't offer the social and educational opportunities to youngsters that they would get in academies in countries speaking their mother tongue. Therefore, our best bet is concentrating on educating local/British kids, but in our own footballing way, not the one espoused by the FA for the past two decades or so (see John68's post from a few weeks ago called 'a couple of right Charlies', or something like that).

I think our academy will be spectacular in the future, in every way, & I recon we'll find some Mancunians too. Imo, the coaching throughout English football has been the problem & it is changing. Our U15s last week, were playing a higher level of football than the20 year olds were doing under Cassell & Co.

The point I was making staying as the mainstay of your club for years as the two at the dippers have. Our Accad has had change after change over the last 4 yrs.