Rags IPO faltering at first hurdle

[Blue Since 76]

Why don't they just get all the fans to pay £1 each and voila, debt gone. Maybe charge them £1.50 and give them a pin badge with '19' on it. Seems simple. Can't understand why they haven't done it.

[JonnyAsh]

I just hope there isnt many other filthy rich geezers willing to throw money at them.

I don't see it happening. The teams that the mega rich invest in such as City, PSG and Chelsea to name three were all sides that hadn't achieved success. I think there's as much a sense of wanting to 'achieve' something with the investment, rather than just buy a 'big name'.
Buying the rags, is a no win, as they have been expected to achieve each season. The reasons to invest are not for payback, but for real achievement, which means taking a club to where it hasn't been before.

[sheikh it all about]

Why don't they just get all the fans to pay £1 each and voila, debt gone. Maybe charge them £1.50 and give them a pin badge with '19' on it. Seems simple. Can't understand why they haven't done it.

Ha ha. That's £690m+. Could buy Taggart a lifetime's supply of booze with the change.

[Ted Hughes]

This now gets better..the IPO is back on..yet with a new amendment by the Glazers that they WILL NOT be using the majority of capital raised to pay off the debt..some of the more financially astute twitter experts are saying if they reach their target only 73mil of their 425mil debt will be recovered

That is understandable. They are now indicating significant falls in revenue for the latest full year of trading and increased expenditure on players and wages. This was expected given the huger fall in cash reserves over the last 9 months. They needs this to work to provide working capital....crikey scary stuff! No mention yet of plans to settle the outstanding debts that come due over the next 4 years if they do not use this money....be fookin funny if the IPO dosh gets used up to buy Van Persie who then gets injured in his first game!

They reckon the IPO is worth $300 mil..they value the club at 3 Billion..twice what an independent has valued it as

Of the $300 mil..Glazers will pocket half..50 mil for transfers in 2012 of which 20 mil has been spent already..and the rest is to service the debt..they literally don't give a fuck about nited..I love them

As far as I can see, they are not pocketing it to pay for transfers, they are just pocketing it full stop. They are selling Utd shares & keeping the money ! The 75 mil is all that Utd get.

The bad side of this is that it looks to me as if they are reaching a point of no return where they have to completely strip everything down or find a buyer for it. I can't see them completely running it into the ground, because they will lose money. So unfortunately we may only get a few more Glazer years before China buys it.

[Swales4ever]

spot on as usual Teddy. I happended to think of the same since this funny public offer of robbery was launched: then I settled for a smile thinking about that Agent Glazers are greedy pirates of the finest order and I can't see all those crowd of tycoons rushing to buy a wrecked company at a demanding price triple of the market piotential, or something like that...

[Beeks]

This now gets better..the IPO is back on..yet with a new amendment by the Glazers that they WILL NOT be using the majority of capital raised to pay off the debt..some of the more financially astute twitter experts are saying if they reach their target only 73mil of their 425mil debt will be recovered

That is understandable. They are now indicating significant falls in revenue for the latest full year of trading and increased expenditure on players and wages. This was expected given the huger fall in cash reserves over the last 9 months. They needs this to work to provide working capital....crikey scary stuff! No mention yet of plans to settle the outstanding debts that come due over the next 4 years if they do not use this money....be fookin funny if the IPO dosh gets used up to buy Van Persie who then gets injured in his first game!

They reckon the IPO is worth $300 mil..they value the club at 3 Billion..twice what an independent has valued it as

Of the $300 mil..Glazers will pocket half..50 mil for transfers in 2012 of which 20 mil has been spent already..and the rest is to service the debt..they literally don't give a fuck about nited..I love them

As far as I can see, they are not pocketing it to pay for transfers, they are just pocketing it full stop. They are selling Utd shares & keeping the money ! The 75 mil is all that Utd get.

The bad side of this is that it looks to me as if they are reaching a point of no return where they have to completely strip everything down or find a buyer for it. I can't see them completely running it into the ground, because they will lose money. So unfortunately we may only get a few more Glazer years before China buys it.

I didn't say they were pocketing it for transfers Ted..150 mil to The Glazers..the other half has been assigned according to the IPO as 100 mil dollars on debt..the other 50 mil dollars towards transfers in 2012..of which some has been spent Kagawa et al

[david yearsley]

I just hope there isnt many other filthy rich geezers willing to throw money at them.

I don't see it happening. The teams that the mega rich invest in such as City, PSG and Chelsea to name three were all sides that hadn't achieved success. I think there's as much a sense of wanting to 'achieve' something with the investment, rather than just buy a 'big name'.
Buying the rags, is a no win, as they have been expected to achieve each season. The reasons to invest are not for payback, but for real achievement, which means taking a club to where it hasn't been before.

This is a very good point
The Glazers, being the sharks they are , are clearly not intent on selling for a penny less than their over inflated valuation. If this bombs with the share price, market cap will reduce making it highly unlikely that anyone will pay anywhere near the asking price. If the management of the Chinese sovereign fund really want to invest in value in the future then surely they´ll be looking elsewhere. Having said that they do have the option of of coersing everyone of their 1.3 billion citizens into becoming scum memebers and forcing them to buy any bit of cheaply made Chinese tat thus creating a revolving door of revenue for both club and country

[Ted Hughes]

This now gets better..the IPO is back on..yet with a new amendment by the Glazers that they WILL NOT be using the majority of capital raised to pay off the debt..some of the more financially astute twitter experts are saying if they reach their target only 73mil of their 425mil debt will be recovered

That is understandable. They are now indicating significant falls in revenue for the latest full year of trading and increased expenditure on players and wages. This was expected given the huger fall in cash reserves over the last 9 months. They needs this to work to provide working capital....crikey scary stuff! No mention yet of plans to settle the outstanding debts that come due over the next 4 years if they do not use this money....be fookin funny if the IPO dosh gets used up to buy Van Persie who then gets injured in his first game!

They reckon the IPO is worth $300 mil..they value the club at 3 Billion..twice what an independent has valued it as

Of the $300 mil..Glazers will pocket half..50 mil for transfers in 2012 of which 20 mil has been spent already..and the rest is to service the debt..they literally don't give a fuck about nited..I love them

As far as I can see, they are not pocketing it to pay for transfers, they are just pocketing it full stop. They are selling Utd shares & keeping the money ! The 75 mil is all that Utd get.

The bad side of this is that it looks to me as if they are reaching a point of no return where they have to completely strip everything down or find a buyer for it. I can't see them completely running it into the ground, because they will lose money. So unfortunately we may only get a few more Glazer years before China buys it.

I didn't say they were pocketing it for transfers Ted..150 mil to The Glazers..the other half has been assigned according to the IPO as 100 mil dollars on debt..the other 50 mil dollars towards transfers in 2012..of which some has been spent Kagawa et al

Sorry, misunderstood your meaning.

It would surprise me very much if they blew 20 mil plus enormous wages on RVP in view of this.

It's excessive for us to spend that on a player of his age. For them it's plain crazy. Unless of course Ferguson thinks they can't get top 4 without him.

[feedthegreek]

just been reading up on this theirs a guy who writes on redcafe i know, but he reckons when the pic,s suddenly became paid off no one knew where the glaziers had got the money from, he reckons they probably borrowed that and the money their gonna syphon off this time will be to pay off their own personnal debts.plus sweeten fergie gill and other executives to toe the party line, hence ferguson last week saying they are brill owners.

[feedthegreek]

this is interesting.
http://action.joinmust.org/index.php/bl ... rospectus/

[Alex Sapphire]

anyone who's life isn't worth living can find the new Prospectus here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912007537/a2210287zf-1a.htm

[ashton287]

this is interesting.
http://action.joinmust.org/index.php/bl ... rospectus/

Very.

[mcfc1632]

anyone who's life isn't worth living can find the new Prospectus here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912007537/a2210287zf-1a.htm

Do you know - as I am always so desperately keen to read anything that feeds my hatred of the scum and desire to ridicule them I reached for the mouse to click..............

Only to find sanity kick in and as I am in a pool-side bar in Cyprus instead wave the barmaid over and order another cold carlsberg. Perhaps only satisifies one appetite but in the round probably a good call

[AG7]

A guy called Andy Green write a Reds blog ... just tweeted this, well, I don't follow him but OptaCity re-tweeted him :)

"1) Glazers cost #MUFC £ms, 2) SAF makes v pro-Glazer comments, 3) $288m staff equity plan launched. I want to know if 2) and 3) are linked."

Following this up, I looked him up and checked out his blog at: http://www.andersred.blogspot.co.uk/

Quite a few interesting dissections of their IPO by disgruntled rags. Check it out, quite a few posts so won't paste all in here, but here below is a letter to SAF from some Red forum ... citing the Glazers showing their true colours with an IPO that enriches themselves and leaves their club in debt.

Dear Sir Alex,

As lifelong Manchester United fans, we are disappointed and concerned by quotes attributed to you in a recent interview. Many of us are the same fans who protested to denounce Cubic Expression back in 2005. These are the same fans who had previously offered you their unwavering support during your private dispute over Rock of Gibraltar's breeding rights, despite Cubic Expression raising some very pertinent questions. In the spirit of fairness, we would like to invite you to clarify these comments by responding to a brief summary of our concerns:

1. You suggested that ‘the majority of real fans will look at it [Glazer ownership] and see that it’s not affecting the team’. Can you clarify what constitutes a real fan?

2. With thousands of fans leaving the club in protest over the Glazer regime, do you consider these time-served reds to be less than real fans?

3. Have you personally met with any of the dissenters to determine how deep their commitment and affection for United may be?

4. What are your thoughts on an atmosphere which gets markedly worse each season as more and more local, traditional fans are marginalised and alienated from the club?

5. You are also quoted in the interview as claiming ‘I’m absolutely comfortable with the Glazers situation. They’ve been great’. You are clearly aware of the opposition from the United fan base - does that not make you uncomfortable in any way?

6. What, in your view, would constitute poor owners?

7. You have repeatedly claimed to have been backed financially whenever you have requested transfer funds. Is this your only consideration when determining what represents great ownership?

8. You continued the interview by saying that, ‘the salaries, agent fees – is just getting ridiculous now’. Whilst we agree in tone, it does represent a sea change in attitude from pre Glazer transfers. Agent fees in both the Ferdinand and Rooney transfers were criticised at the time for being excessive, so why does the club now refuse to meet market conditions for the top players?

9. Do you believe Jorge Mendes’s £2.6m cut of the Bébé transfer, a full 35% of the total fee paid, represented good value?

10. With more than £250k leaving the club each day to service the Glazer debt, totalling over £500m since the takeover, is it so reprehensible for us to question your constant references to ‘value’?
Given your personal background and previous support for fan involvement we hope you take the trouble to respond to our deep concerns about both the club’s situation and the wording of the interview quoted.

Signed
Concerned Manchester United Fans

[Moonchesteri]

This now gets better..the IPO is back on..yet with a new amendment by the Glazers that they WILL NOT be using the majority of capital raised to pay off the debt..some of the more financially astute twitter experts are saying if they reach their target only 73mil of their 425mil debt will be recovered

That is understandable. They are now indicating significant falls in revenue for the latest full year of trading and increased expenditure on players and wages. This was expected given the huger fall in cash reserves over the last 9 months. They needs this to work to provide working capital....crikey scary stuff! No mention yet of plans to settle the outstanding debts that come due over the next 4 years if they do not use this money....be fookin funny if the IPO dosh gets used up to buy Van Persie who then gets injured in his first game!

They reckon the IPO is worth $300 mil..they value the club at 3 Billion..twice what an independent has valued it as

Of the $300 mil..Glazers will pocket half..50 mil for transfers in 2012 of which 20 mil has been spent already.. and the rest is to service the debt..they literally don't give a fuck about nited..I love them

As far as I can see, they are not pocketing it to pay for transfers, they are just pocketing it full stop. They are selling Utd shares & keeping the money ! The 75 mil is all that Utd get.

The bad side of this is that it looks to me as if they are reaching a point of no return where they have to completely strip everything down or find a buyer for it. I can't see them completely running it into the ground, because they will lose money. So unfortunately we may only get a few more Glazer years before China buys it.

I didn't say they were pocketing it for transfers Ted..150 mil to The Glazers..the other half has been assigned according to the IPO as 100 mil dollars on debt..the other 50 mil dollars towards transfers in 2012..of which some has been spent Kagawa et al

where do you get the idea from that they have 50m towards transfers now (/this summer)? are you sure that isn't £50m for transfers during fiscal year 2012 (which ended 30th june)?
Quote: "We expect our net player capital expenditure for our fiscal year 2012 to be approximately £50 million"

oh... and City are ruining football as we're spending money.
as if these twats haven't spent any:
Last 15 Years Net Player Capital Expenditure(1)

[bigblue]

Video on the issue:

[youtube]vekjgJesQMA[/youtube]

Basically seems like new share owners will get fucked, the club is insanely over-valued, and slur whiskey nose is getting paid off. let them burn

[Ted Hughes]

It's about time the rags' fans realised that Ferguson is the reason the Glazers are in charge. That's why he supports them.

I know fuck all about horse racing but I do know one or two blokes who are involved in ownership at a low level & live right next door to the Coolmore estate. Their angle on Ferguson expecting stud rights from that horse is that they think he's a fucking moron. There are horses at that place which are worth fucking billions purely from shagging.

He retired on the strength of his idiocy, was ready to sail off into the sunset drinking wine & then suddenly found there had been a fuck up. So he came back, fucked off the Irish by using his influence & created the whole situation with the Glazers. If not for Ferguson's greed, there would be no Glazer control at Utd. That's why, in spite of supposedly being a champion of the people, union man, he kisses their fucking arses; HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM OWNING UTD.

The bloke is a two faced, phoney, money grabbing, fucking cunt & it's about time the rags realised it & made it known to their mafia in the media. Without his support, the Glazers would be fucked.

[feedthegreek]

It's about time the rags' fans realised that Ferguson is the reason the Glazers are in charge. That's why he supports them.

I know fuck all about horse racing but I do know one or two blokes who are involved in ownership at a low level & live right next door to the Coolmore estate. Their angle on Ferguson expecting stud rights from that horse is that they think he's a fucking moron. There are horses at that place which are worth fucking billions purely from shagging.

He retired on the strength of his idiocy, was ready to sail off into the sunset drinking wine & then suddenly found there had been a fuck up. So he came back, fucked off the Irish by using his influence & created the whole situation with the Glazers. If not for Ferguson's greed, there would be no Glazer control at Utd. That's why, in spite of supposedly being a champion of the people, union man, he kisses their fucking arses; HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM OWNING UTD.

The bloke is a two faced, phoney, money grabbing, fucking cunt & it's about time the rags realised it & made it known to their mafia in the media. Without his support, the Glazers would be fucked.

this.

[littlebig]

From the Irish Times:


MANCHESTER UNITED’S controversial flotation in New York continues to provoke an angry reaction from supporters after it emerged that senior employees at Old Trafford stand to benefit from a share scheme worth up to $320 million (€260 million).

A highly lucrative “2012 Equity Incentive Award Plan”, as it is described in the Initial Public Offering (IPO) prospectus released on Monday, has raised questions among some United fans as to whether manager Alex Ferguson and chief executive David Gill will stand to personally profit from the Glazers’s decision to list the club on the New York stock exchange.

United are refusing to comment on the situation. “Under the regulations of the SEC [Securities and Exchange Commission], we are not permitted to disclose the contents of the document,” said a United spokesman.

The Glazers, who are looking to raise up to $383 million (€311 million) by selling more than 19 million shares in the Premier League club at up to $20 a piece, came in for severe criticism on Monday when it transpired they had reneged on their promise to use all the funds from a successful flotation to reduce United’s €557 million debts.

Ferguson and Gill have both staunchly defended the American owners in the past, much to the dismay of those that have protested against the way that the club has been run since the Glazers’s leveraged buyout in 2005.

Only nine days ago, Ferguson described the Glazers as “great” and suggested that “the majority of real fans will look at it realistically and say it’s not affecting the team”. Those remarks went down badly with some supporters.

Doubts also persist about how successful the IPO will prove to be, and the Equity Incentive Award Plan already looks like being a controversial element.

According to the club’s prospectus, United’s executive committee, including Gill, are in line for a €1.6 million IPO bonus once the deal is done. But the richest rewards will go to those selected to take part in the Equity Incentive Award Plan.

The plan is designed to “attract, retain and motivate selected employees, consultants and non-employee directors”, according to the prospectus.

Some 16 million shares – worth a potential €260 million at the top end of the forecast IPO price – will be set aside for those selected to be part of the plan.

The awards will be made using a variety of schemes and if the company is taken over, a “change of control” clause will allow United to pay out the share awards immediately.

Andy Green, a financial analyst who writes the “andersred blog” on football ownership and is an adviser to the Manchester United Supporters Trust (Must), said United should clear up Ferguson’s situation.

“I’m not sure you can have a $288m [the mid-range valuation] benefit package for key employees and not include the manager,” Green said.

“I think he should probably come and tell the fans either way. If he’s not benefited, fair enough. But it’s certainly going to be something that’s on a lot of people’s minds.”

Green also believes Ferguson is on dangerous ground with his comments about the fans in relation to the Glazers. “I think he is risking tarnishing some of his legacy, which is a great shame because he is the greatest manager probably in English football history.

“Also, he has rejected the fans who are understandably and correctly concerned about what is going on. Look at this IPO, it was promised to pay down the debt. It’s now making hardly any impact – it’s the owners taking money out and leaving the club in debt.

“Being concerned about that is perfectly legitimate. And then for him to say that you’re not a real fan if you are concerned ... well, that’s quite staggering.”

Duncan Drasdo, the Must chief executive, is aware of fans’ concerns but said that he wants to keep the spotlight on the Glazers for the moment.

“I know people are asking if David Gill and Sir Alex Ferguson are going to benefit from the IPO and whether that has affected their statements. But I don’t want to divert attention away from the terms of the IPO and the pressure we’re trying to put on the banks.”

[9secondlegend]

I guess those Glazer boys will be looking to consolidate all their debts into one easy to manage payment.....now where is that letter from Ocean Finance!

It would be interesting to know how much they have spent on all this IPO nonsense. I wonder who their financial advisor is but I guess it is a sign of the times and how bad it is in Salford. Greece gets 300bn Euros and everyone knows they wont be able to pay it back but with all their "history and success" FC Salford cannot raise £200m. Carry on boys great work!

Just to drag this thread down to my level because I haven't a clue what you are all on about........there not from fucking Salford!