Emmanuel Greedybayor

[Chinners]

"Children, children look at us ... squabbling ... bickering ... we didn't use to be like this!"



. . . . .





"yes we did Rik ... ya bastid"

[Swales4ever]

Well said Chinners.
currently not in a very nice mood, myself, but very well said, Chinners.

[ronk]

Unless your clients demand a house in Cheshire, tubes of smarties with the blue ones taken out...

No way. They can fuck off.

[DoomMerchant]

Ted; with respect....you have fuck all idea about what I have experience of and the parallels that can be closely drawn to these kind of deals. I know that I know what I'm talking about here and you can think what you like; it's your opinion and you know we are not agreeing on this.

That said, I completely agree that Marwood is obviously subject to Khaldoon's direction it is not the "tough" policy I have any issue with but the bumbling handling of the process. And don't come out with the "you don't know what's happening" shit again, none of us "know" but we can hazard a pretty good guess and he is clearly not very good at the deal side of things.

Don't have any issue with him in the other aspects of his role which he does appear to be doing a good job at but player purchases and sales...in my opinion....he is not cutting it. Mancini has been involved with the player acquisition process at several clubs and he clearly doesn't think Marwood is doing a good job either.

I don't claim to know what's happening, it's my opinion, but I keep getting the impression which seems to suggest you do.

Unless you are involved with buying & selling footballers then imo you are talking about experience in something else, not dealing with footballers & football agents, which is the only thing important here as far as I'm concerned. There is a reason most top clubs use football people in this role, often ex players. If you work in football, then I apologise.

I recon Marwood will have a big team working with him/ under him, who will be experts in various aspects from contract law to interior design & including helpers such as Vieira to add influence. That team has been largely incredibly successful in bringing top players to City. I don't think Mancini gives a shit whether Marwood is doing it correctly or not. He wants the players & he doesn't care about anything else, just getting what he wants. If he had to negotiate under the present restrictions, I doubt he would do it better. So far when Ferguson has come up against Marwood, City have got the player, not Ferguson, & other managers have been similarly unsuccessful against his team . A big name like tricky Burgerstain may be an upgrade due to his reputation but that isn't a criticism of Marwood.

So far, Real Madrid have failed to sign Modric even though the player went on strike. They have loads of players Mourinho can't shift. Barca have failed to sign their targets. They have loads of players they can't shift. RVP still hasn't signed for Utd. They have people like Berbatov, who was top scorer in the Prem 2 seasons ago & they can't shift him. Marwood doesn't work for any of those clubs.

in case it matters i negotiated three children selecting the same restaurant for dinner this evening while on vacation errrrrr holiday, which is a fucking miracle to perform compared to some agent that wants bunging up and some footballers dad trying to whip his cock out to get it licked at the 11th hour.

cheers

[john68]

Ant,
This debate must be as frustrating for you as it is for me Mate. As much as I love you, I really want to swipe you round the chops with a smelly wet kipper to make you see sense (not Doomie though, as he would simply enjoy it) I just know you feel the same.....BUT.....

Throughout this debate, we,of the rational and intelligent side have analysed, dissected and explained all parts of the argument. From Comparison to Cook, the constraints of the FFP, the project schedule, Marwood's political situation within the club, Mancini's position as head of the football dept and his wish/need to fulfil his ambitions, uphold his reputation and drive on-field success. Everyaspect of this issue has been raised and fully dealt with....yet you choose to ignore all of this. In fact you have failed to engage in the debate on most of these aspects.

On your side, having ignored reasoned argument, you attach your personal experience to something you do not know. Though you may wish to discard the NOT KNOWING point, it is still relevant....and you offer little or no concrete evidence to cement your case.

Please advise of your address...wet kipper in the post....please post utube of your paraphyletic self flagellation.
Failing that Mate...Apart from telling us you believe he is useless, can you add specific evidence. TA!

[dazby]

Get his missus to do the fish slapping. I'd make a night in out of that.

Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone?

[ant london]

Ant,
This debate must be as frustrating for you as it is for me Mate. As much as I love you, I really want to swipe you round the chops with a smelly wet kipper to make you see sense (not Doomie though, as he would simply enjoy it) I just know you feel the same.....BUT.....

Throughout this debate, we,of the rational and intelligent side have analysed, dissected and explained all parts of the argument. From Comparison to Cook, the constraints of the FFP, the project schedule, Marwood's political situation within the club, Mancini's position as head of the football dept and his wish/need to fulfil his ambitions, uphold his reputation and drive on-field success. Everyaspect of this issue has been raised and fully dealt with....yet you choose to ignore all of this. In fact you have failed to engage in the debate on most of these aspects.

On your side, having ignored reasoned argument, you attach your personal experience to something you do not know. Though you may wish to discard the NOT KNOWING point, it is still relevant....and you offer little or no concrete evidence to cement your case.

Please advise of your address...wet kipper in the post....please post utube of your paraphyletic self flagellation.
Failing that Mate...Apart from telling us you believe he is useless, can you add specific evidence. TA!

John mate, I can understand your frustration and I'm not going to go into the specifics of what I've worked on which I say qualifies me as much or more than anyone on here (other than anyone who happens to actually work in player acquisition for a premier league club. You know I'm pretty sure who I work for and to say that we are the football experts in our field is pretty accurate...you, yourself, have quoted data and financial statistics enough times that we produce.

I've worked to a greater or lesser extent on the acquisition, potential acquisition and refinancing of three PL clubs and, as part of these projects have had the opportunity to see how things work and have had explained to me by the relevant professionals within said clubs, in detail, the process of acquisition the arbitrages between fee paid, amortisation of contract and write off/credit of any profit.

I've also spent the last three years doing transactions in a region where, to put it mildly, having an "agent" or A N Other person wanting to be paid off for their part in the deal...and this arising at the 11th hour, is not unusual. And I have been at very close quarters to seeing how, strategically, this has been dealt with so as to keep the deal on track.

I've also done several deals for Mubadala, of which Khaldoon is CEO, I've seen how their deal professionals go about their work and I tell you that Marwood wouldn't last 6 months....on the deal side of things. As I've said before, I don't think Marwood is failing at the other components of his role.

I'm also, amongst other things, a UK chartered accountant. So I don't think I need to justify to anyone, the fact that I fully understand the constraints that it will impose on us and how the various elements of acquisition/salary paid/contract amortisation and impact of losses will affect our position.

So in answer to Ted's snotty shit...I think i am pretty fucking well qualified to talk about this. Certainly as well, if not more qualified than anyone on here who doesn't happen to work in that role for a football club...ie. fucking no-one.

What you, Ted and co seem unable to get your heads around is the fact that I am not saying that we don't have to operate within certain parameters, I know full well that we do, as does Mike.....and Mancio.

I know that we need to trim the squad but the fact of the matter is that we are going to take a bath financially on most of the excess players we have. Accordingly, my view is that it makes no sense to try to sell them before bringing in new players. We all know who won't be here come a month from now and the question is only whether that is a loan or a sale...either way we will make a loss.

Our focus in dealing with FFP is clearly that we want to have a manageable cost base for the purposes of calculating our FFP results....that means not overpaying on fees, on salaries and on other elements like agents' fees. BUT the club know that they have now set a bar where if we go out and buy, say a Tevez replacement...or RvP...they will want nigh on 200k per week. We are not going to be able to ever reduce that to half this amount unless something like a PL salary cap is introduced.

It is manifestly clear that the strategy to deal with FFP is two pronged. Firstly deal with the above issues, get this to as tight and contained a number as possible.

THEN...and this is the way we are really aiming to comply....drive up our top line revenues and we clearly have a number of ways we are aiming to do that....Etihad deal, new Nike deal, new partnerships and....very importantly...PL TV and performance income and the CL equivalent.

To ensure that we maximise the latter two elements we need to have as competitive and strong a squad as possible. Prevarication and lack of decisive deal strategy could very well cost us in either of those top line revenue items and very easily counteract or diminish the benefit of getting salaries/amortisation of non-required players off the books.

My point, which I do not think I have failed to adequately explain, is that we (ie. the club) know they are going to sign players this window...they also know they have to ship the excess out on sale or loan. Both of these things have to and will happen.

The gripe with Marwood is that his cunting about is going to make some of the players we bring in more expensive than they ought to be (a la Agger) and we may well miss out on others we were eminently capable of signing (RvP) and them go to our rivals instead.

This could cost us...which makes it more difficult to come in line with FFP etc etc etc.

[Ted Hughes]

Ant,
This debate must be as frustrating for you as it is for me Mate. As much as I love you, I really want to swipe you round the chops with a smelly wet kipper to make you see sense (not Doomie though, as he would simply enjoy it) I just know you feel the same.....BUT.....

Throughout this debate, we,of the rational and intelligent side have analysed, dissected and explained all parts of the argument. From Comparison to Cook, the constraints of the FFP, the project schedule, Marwood's political situation within the club, Mancini's position as head of the football dept and his wish/need to fulfil his ambitions, uphold his reputation and drive on-field success. Everyaspect of this issue has been raised and fully dealt with....yet you choose to ignore all of this. In fact you have failed to engage in the debate on most of these aspects.

On your side, having ignored reasoned argument, you attach your personal experience to something you do not know. Though you may wish to discard the NOT KNOWING point, it is still relevant....and you offer little or no concrete evidence to cement your case.

Please advise of your address...wet kipper in the post....please post utube of your paraphyletic self flagellation.
Failing that Mate...Apart from telling us you believe he is useless, can you add specific evidence. TA!

John mate, I can understand your frustration and I'm not going to go into the specifics of what I've worked on which I say qualifies me as much or more than anyone on here (other than anyone who happens to actually work in player acquisition for a premier league club. You know I'm pretty sure who I work for and to say that we are the football experts in our field is pretty accurate...you, yourself, have quoted data and financial statistics enough times that we produce.

I've worked to a greater or lesser extent on the acquisition, potential acquisition and refinancing of three PL clubs and, as part of these projects have had the opportunity to see how things work and have had explained to me by the relevant professionals within said clubs, in detail, the process of acquisition the arbitrages between fee paid, amortisation of contract and write off/credit of any profit.

I've also spent the last three years doing transactions in a region where, to put it mildly, having an "agent" or A N Other person wanting to be paid off for their part in the deal...and this arising at the 11th hour, is not unusual. And I have been at very close quarters to seeing how, strategically, this has been dealt with so as to keep the deal on track.

I've also done several deals for Mubadala, of which Khaldoon is CEO, I've seen how their deal professionals go about their work and I tell you that Marwood wouldn't last 6 months....on the deal side of things. As I've said before, I don't think Marwood is failing at the other components of his role.

I'm also, amongst other things, a UK chartered accountant. So I don't think I need to justify to anyone, the fact that I fully understand the constraints that it will impose on us and how the various elements of acquisition/salary paid/contract amortisation and impact of losses will affect our position.

So in answer to Ted's snotty shit...I think i am pretty fucking well qualified to talk about this. Certainly as well, if not more qualified than anyone on here who doesn't happen to work in that role for a football club...ie. fucking no-one.

What you, Ted and co seem unable to get your heads around is the fact that I am not saying that we don't have to operate within certain parameters, I know full well that we do, as does Mike.....and Mancio.

I know that we need to trim the squad but the fact of the matter is that we are going to take a bath financially on most of the excess players we have. Accordingly, my view is that it makes no sense to try to sell them before bringing in new players. We all know who won't be here come a month from now and the question is only whether that is a loan or a sale...either way we will make a loss.

Our focus in dealing with FFP is clearly that we want to have a manageable cost base for the purposes of calculating our FFP results....that means not overpaying on fees, on salaries and on other elements like agents' fees. BUT the club know that they have now set a bar where if we go out and buy, say a Tevez replacement...or RvP...they will want nigh on 200k per week. We are not going to be able to ever reduce that to half this amount unless something like a PL salary cap is introduced.

It is manifestly clear that the strategy to deal with FFP is two pronged. Firstly deal with the above issues, get this to as tight and contained a number as possible.

THEN...and this is the way we are really aiming to comply....drive up our top line revenues and we clearly have a number of ways we are aiming to do that....Etihad deal, new Nike deal, new partnerships and....very importantly...PL TV and performance income and the CL equivalent.

To ensure that we maximise the latter two elements we need to have as competitive and strong a squad as possible. Prevarication and lack of decisive deal strategy could very well cost us in either of those top line revenue items and very easily counteract or diminish the benefit of getting salaries/amortisation of non-required players off the books.

My point, which I do not think I have failed to adequately explain, is that we (ie. the club) know they are going to sign players this window...they also know they have to ship the excess out on sale or loan. Both of these things have to and will happen.

The gripe with Marwood is that his cunting about is going to make some of the players we bring in more expensive than they ought to be (a la Agger) and we may well miss out on others we were eminently capable of signing (RvP) and them go to our rivals instead.

This could cost us...which makes it more difficult to come in line with FFP etc etc etc.

I don't think that my shit is any snottier than yours & I don't think that anyone has suggested that we aren't going to be fucked over on the sale of our players. The question is; who decides ? In the case of Tevez, it was Khaldoon.

You are saying you know for certain that isn't the case regarding Adebayor & that Marwood can do what he likes ?


Just to add.

Khaldoon on Tevez.

Mubarak has now gone on to reveal that he is quote happy with the way the Tevez controversy turned out, as he took a massive gamble on keeping the player around.

He revealed that he was on the brink of letting him leave for AC Milan, however opted not to do so.

The City chairman is quoted to have said: “It was a landmark”

”We cannot allow ourselves, as a club, to be mucked around.”

“It was a hell of a gamble for me, not to let him leave for AC Milan in January, because he could have sat out all year, however not played for us and lost his value.”

“But I was firm that we are not rich people to be taken advantage of, to give him what he wants and let the market screw us.”

And.


Sheikh Mansour promises new players at Manchester City

Published June 6th, 2012 - 15:55 GMT

Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan has confirmed the club will make "changes" to their squad this summer, but has warned that players deemed surplus to requirements won't be sold on the cheap.

Having guided City to a maiden Premier League title last season - their first league triumph in 44 years - boss Roberto Mancini urged the club not to rest on their laurels next season.

Chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak had said the club would shy away from spending lavish sums of previous summers as they now have a world-class squad. But Mancini insists more top names are still required if they are to challenge Europe's elite.

“Barcelona and Real Madrid, every year, buy two or three players and spend a lot of money. I think for Manchester City it will be the same," he said. “We need to improve. We need to have the strength to play Champions League and Premier League.”


Mancini met Sheikh Mansour in Abu Dhabi recently to discuss the club's plans ahead of next season and City's owner has hinted he may be willing to bow to the Italian's wishes.

Admitting the club will be active in the transfer market, Sheikh Mansour has, though, insisted they will look to balance the books by offloading a number of out of favour players.

The likes of Wayne Bridge, Kolo Toure, Michael Johnson, Emmanuel Adebayor and Roque Santa Cruz have all been deemed surplus to requirements at the Etihad Stadium, with the club eager to find them new homes.

“There will be changes," said Sheikh Mansour. "Some Man City players will be available for sale if we receive good offers. The club will buy other players.”

City may, though, have to be content with temporary moves for their fringe stars as was the case last season with Bridge, Adebayor and Santa Cruz all leaving on loan as other clubs reluctant to pay their huge salaries.

Sheikh Mansour's admission that the club will look to sign players this summer will be music to the ears of Mancini and the club's fans as they look to cement their place at the top of English football.

Seems the Sheikh may have an opinon too.

I think both of those pieces point to a policy which is at odds with the idea that Marwood can do as he pleases & write players off as some are suggesting. I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

[Socrates]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

Adebayor made it clear he wasn't interested in "doing a job" unless he was first choice striker. He was very obviously disruptive when not first choice. That is his doing not Mancini's!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

Adebayor made it clear he wasn't interested in "doing a job" unless he was first choice striker. He was very obviously disruptive when not first choice. That is his doing not Mancini's!

Surely there is a compromise. Adebayor wants to play and is a capable proven performer. It can't be that tough.

[Socrates]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

Adebayor made it clear he wasn't interested in "doing a job" unless he was first choice striker. He was very obviously disruptive when not first choice. That is his doing not Mancini's!

Surely there is a compromise. Adebayor wants to play and is a capable proven performer. It can't be that tough.

He wants to play every game and becomes disruptive if not, where is the compromise? Better he helps another Prem club take points off our immediate rivals than having him on the sidelines sniping.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

Adebayor made it clear he wasn't interested in "doing a job" unless he was first choice striker. He was very obviously disruptive when not first choice. That is his doing not Mancini's!

Surely there is a compromise. Adebayor wants to play and is a capable proven performer. It can't be that tough.

He wants to play every game and becomes disruptive if not, where is the compromise? Better he helps another Prem club take points off our immediate rivals than having him on the sidelines sniping.

Well the accusation is that he just wants the money and isn't arsed about playing. Now he just wants to play every game. Which is it? With a season of 50+ games, surely something could be done.

[Socrates]

I still think Adebayor could have done a job for us last season. Bob gets an idea though....

Adebayor made it clear he wasn't interested in "doing a job" unless he was first choice striker. He was very obviously disruptive when not first choice. That is his doing not Mancini's!

Surely there is a compromise. Adebayor wants to play and is a capable proven performer. It can't be that tough.

He wants to play every game and becomes disruptive if not, where is the compromise? Better he helps another Prem club take points off our immediate rivals than having him on the sidelines sniping.

Well the accusation is that he just wants the money and isn't arsed about playing. Now he just wants to play every game. Which is it? With a season of 50+ games, surely something could be done.

He wants both!

[john68]

Ant,
God Bless yer Sir for such a luvverley but for me anyway, wholly unnecessary post. Not for one second did I ever doubt your expertise, nor your abilities. May I add my respect to you for respecting the level of debate and not taking cheap shots. (at me anyway)...:-)

Here is where I tread on dangerous ground by taking on the expert in his own backyard...My point was that despite your expertise which does add validity to your opinion, it remains only opinion, as you, like me, have no direct knowledge of what is really going on inside the club. Neither of us know for certain; who is directing that policy, who is calling the shots, what parameters of spending have been set nor what deals may or may not be in the pipeline to offset our huge financial deficit.

Your resume on how we need to deal with our deficit was educational but may I throw an alternative at you?...(and this is where it gets dangerous for me).
Because of the proposed FFP, our original longer term investment plan was speeded up and in order to meet the new regulations, it became a necessity to qualify for the CL. CL qualification gave us access to huge increased income and global exposure.

We have now attained that level and coupled with our on-field successes, our owners feel secure we are strong enough to remain a top 4 club over the next couple of seasons without any or much top level spending.

Our match day income is almost at its limit (86% stadium capacity) leaving little room for improvement without huge ticket price rises. Our CL income is largely defined by our coefficient which offers the largest gains and increased income by qualifying year on years and only limited gains by being able to reach beyond the last 16 in any single year. This also gives us increased money from the UeFA slush fund. The likes of Arsenal and other clubs have dramatically increased their income over time without any great success and still remain way ahead of us. The highest gains, for the smallest cost come from CL qualification over a longer period.

Despite what Mancini wants and what Our Sheik seems to now have agreed to give him, increasing our costs by buying top players may be detrimental to our financial needs. This leads me to consider that we were never serious players in any deals and Marwood's dealings (Hazard, RVP, De Rossi) were always about bluff and bluster for fans and the media rather than any serious attempt to actually land those players. The fact that we walked away from the Hazard and RVP deals so quickly and so meekly without any fight makes me think I could be right,

Marwood a failure or simply a marginal player in a bit of a City produced drama?

[Swales4ever]

Temporarily, NECESSARELY BREACH OF self-imposed sin ban:

John,
[strike]actually I don't care hoew much You feel disgusted, disappointed, enraged or whatsoever else up to the extent to turn into the exact opposite of the educated, civilized, wise, smart, nice LORD of the BLUES Community as I figure You out, exclusively based on my very own, limited, intelligence of the opinion You post on here since I joined. i.e. I don't know why You (in good company, tbf) have choosen to not even reply to my PM with a f**k off[/strike], but it's irrelevant for the sake of this board and the use of good debating.

what is important is that You (as well as Ted) should start to carefully considering [strike]two[/strike] three FACT:
1) dr. Khaldoon Khalifa Al Mubarak sits on so many BOARDS of major Companies, not to say the number of which where he holds responsabilities like CEO or Chairman hence demanding even more care, that the idea to even think that he may have time do deal with executive tasks like acquisition/sale of football player (unless very casually for HUGE names fm the Carlos Tevez to the Lionel Messi bracket) is pure fictional comedy;
2) read Brian Marwood currriculum vitae and then (honestly) decide if You would appoint him as purchasing manager of any leading company of any field
3) ask yourself if the Lagavulin bleeding Nose - who took incomparably more time than MBob to win things - would still be driving the Filth if someone had put a shoes seller in the position to decide and/or influence which personnel suit most style/s of play and tactics he wants to executed on the field, for the sake of Club (sporting and financial) success.

I beg Your and vast majority other members of this board pardon.

[now back to sin ban]

FIXED for the sake of old good maths.
and for reasons of private pride as well.

[ant london]

I don't think that my shit is any snottier than yours & I don't think that anyone has suggested that we aren't going to be fucked over on the sale of our players. The question is; who decides ? In the case of Tevez, it was Khaldoon.

You are saying you know for certain that isn't the case regarding Adebayor & that Marwood can do what he likes ?

I don't think I've been snotty until replying to your last couple of missives. You know I rate you very highly as a poster and I can't recall us ever even disagreeing much on here but on this we do.

The second point, no, I have never said that Marwood can do what he likes. In fact I have explicitly stated that he is clearly working to parameters set out by/agreed with Khaldoon.

I also am fully in agreement that he and Sheikh Mansour will ultimately have the casting yes/no decision when an impasse is reached.

That is not what I have been questioning at all and I cannot quite understand what part of the fact that it is Marwood's EXECUTION of deal making within those boundaries and parameters that I have massive issue with. Ditto Doom I'm certain from what he has also posted. If you don't think that it is odd that the likes of United, Madrid, Barcelona, Arsenal etc manage to conclude big transfers regularly with a minimum of being dragged into public auctions with prices being driven up and, in that light you think it likely that Marwood is really rather good at this then fair enough...but don't expect me to agree.

Despite the fact that the aforementioned clubs (and others) have greater "pull" in terms of prestige/history/enduring success than us the clubs selling to them, the players being transferred to them and the agents acting on behalf of those players know that these clubs (like us) have deep pockets and that other clubs would be interested if word got out that the deal was under discussion. So, very often, not much gets out...there is no protracted saga in the papers....the deal just gets done with a minimum of fuss and at a certain price.

You may think that this is an anti-City conspiracy or that we are victims of our previous exuberance and naivety in the market; I think it is because Brian Marwood is not fit for purpose for this particular aspect of his job.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

>>>> If you don't think that it is odd that the likes of United, Madrid, Barcelona, Arsenal etc manage to conclude big transfers regularly with a minimum of being dragged into public auctions with prices being driven up

The filth might be a bad example to use. They have missed loads of their transfer targets over the last couple of years and are involved in a very public auction right now with the price being driven up for Van Persie.

[ant london]

>>>> If you don't think that it is odd that the likes of United, Madrid, Barcelona, Arsenal etc manage to conclude big transfers regularly with a minimum of being dragged into public auctions with prices being driven up

The filth might be a bad example to use. They have missed loads of their transfer targets over the last couple of years and are involved in a very public auction right now with the price being driven up for Van Persie.

true...I was rather referring to their previous incarnation as wealthy...and successful

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

>>>> If you don't think that it is odd that the likes of United, Madrid, Barcelona, Arsenal etc manage to conclude big transfers regularly with a minimum of being dragged into public auctions with prices being driven up

The filth might be a bad example to use. They have missed loads of their transfer targets over the last couple of years and are involved in a very public auction right now with the price being driven up for Van Persie.

true...I was rather referring to their previous incarnation as wealthy...and successful

Oh ok. fair enough.
To be fair though, when they were regularly making record signings, there were a smaller pool of clubs to rival them, they had a ton of cash and virtually a monopoly on winning trophies. Slightly easier than the market we are working in right now possibly.