Hillsborough Report

[Alex Sapphire]

All I have heard since this report came out is "sir Alex thinks...." "sir Alex says...." "sir Alex announced.....".

He is such a slimy attention grabbing cunt he can't allow anything to happen without making it about him.

he should reflect on the Scum's contribution towards improving crowd safety and addressing known issues.
While alcohol has been shown not to be a contributor in this case, it's control has made us fans safer.
That didn't stop the money grabbing effers getting at Popplewell:


"The final report of the Popplewell Committee observed that the financial effect on clubs through lost revenue in Executive Boxes was very serious, Manchester United's loss of income was projected at over £500,000. The Act was amended through the Public Order Act 1986 to establish 'a new regime for the sale and possession of alcohol in executive boxes and restaurants'.
Unfortunately the flow of money from executive box holder, which would enable clubs to do all the things that the Prime Minister and the Minister of State wanted, including improving safety standards, was drying up fast"

[ronk]

No doubt what needed to be done was clear but the fact that alll these incidents happened and fuckall was done suggests something more major needed to happen.I think the authourities knew they had to do something but if they did anything prior to a tragedy like Hillsborough,they would have been accused of scaremongering.I think the fans needed Hillsborough to change their attitudes.I think it made a lot of the people who went grow up as it were

Normally I respect the right of anyone to be an imbecile, especially on the internet, but I don't want to see attitudes like that persist. That sort of tolerance of gross incompetence is exactly why Hillsborough happened.

The authorities were afraid to do something because of scaremongering, are you fucking serious? Seriously? The authorities were grossly incompetent and uninterested in doing their jobs. Change wouldn't have been that hard to bring about, plenty of other countries had outdated stadia and big unpredictable crowds. All it would take would be some basic enforcement of some very simple rules.

There was a culture of incompetence and rule-breaking within certain sectors of British life. Can we even imagine a contractor or architect even considering some of the stupid modifications in Hillsborough now? And not just when it comes to stadia, safety rules are safety rules and they're a lot harder to flout.

The FA would be decisive now, the match happens in other venue or has its capacity reduced. More fans want to go to the match than the stadium has capacity, do you: A - just pack in more people, knowing that it's dangerous and illegal; B - take a few less quid at the gate? This is a really simple question. How stupid do you have to be to think that Hillsborough needs to happen to be able to give the right answer?

[Rag_hater]

No doubt what needed to be done was clear but the fact that alll these incidents happened and fuckall was done suggests something more major needed to happen.I think the authourities knew they had to do something but if they did anything prior to a tragedy like Hillsborough,they would have been accused of scaremongering.I think the fans needed Hillsborough to change their attitudes.I think it made a lot of the people who went grow up as it were

Normally I respect the right of anyone to be an imbecile, especially on the internet, but I don't want to see attitudes like that persist. That sort of tolerance of gross incompetence is exactly why Hillsborough happened.

The authorities were afraid to do something because of scaremongering, are you fucking serious? Seriously? The authorities were grossly incompetent and uninterested in doing their jobs. Change wouldn't have been that hard to bring about, plenty of other countries had outdated stadia and big unpredictable crowds. All it would take would be some basic enforcement of some very simple rules.

There was a culture of incompetence and rule-breaking within certain sectors of British life. Can we even imagine a contractor or architect even considering some of the stupid modifications in Hillsborough now? And not just when it comes to stadia, safety rules are safety rules and they're a lot harder to flout.

The FA would be decisive now, the match happens in other venue or has its capacity reduced. More fans want to go to the match than the stadium has capacity, do you: A - just pack in more people, knowing that it's dangerous and illegal; B - take a few less quid at the gate? This is a really simple question. How stupid do you have to be to think that Hillsborough needs to happen to be able to give the right answer?

That's very big of you.
The thing is us stupid people in the real world who saw what you brainiacs did on the news etc... did not give a fuck that you thought the filth treated you like animals. In fact IMO the fuckers were to soft with you.If I told you some of the stuff that happened to me cos I have brown skin by football fans maybe you would begin to understand why I think you and the other hardcore fools needed something gross like Hilllsborough to snap you out of the dead end you had got yourselves into.
Only something extreme was gonna do it

[ronk]

Like I said, my post wasn't for your benefit

[Original Dub]

That's very big of you.
The thing is us stupid people in the real world who saw what you brainiacs did on the news etc... did not give a fuck that you thought the filth treated you like animals. In fact IMO the fuckers were to soft with you.If I told you some of the stuff that happened to me cos I have brown skin by football fans maybe you would begin to understand why I think you and the other hardcore fools needed something gross like Hilllsborough to snap you out of the dead end you had got yourselves into.
Only something extreme was gonna do it

Well why don't you tell us? That's the whole point. You have problems in every thread on here and I reckon it's largely down to you wanting to pick holes in other people's arguments without genuine reason.

In this thread you say you have a genuine reason for your views, so now is your chance.

[Chinners]

MacKenzie ... what an odious feck
http://bcove.me/iw4q78lc

[Blue Since 76]

MacKenzie ... what an odious feck
http://bcove.me/iw4q78lc

He is. But if some twat was stood on my drive touching my car, I've have knocked him out. All that clip does it show that all journalists are knobheads.

[Beefymcfc]

Let it rest.

[Chinners]

MacKenzie ... what an odious feck
http://bcove.me/iw4q78lc

He is. But if some twat was stood on my drive touching my car, I've have knocked him out. All that clip does it show that all journalists are knobheads.

Agreed ... Journo'd by a journo was the phrase that came to mind tbh ... ha ha ha

[ronk]

MacKenzie ... what an odious feck
http://bcove.me/iw4q78lc

He is. But if some twat was stood on my drive touching my car, I've have knocked him out. All that clip does it show that all journalists are knobheads.

Agreed ... Journo'd by a journo was the phrase that came to mind tbh ... ha ha ha

TV doorstepping at someone's home is a shit and unfair tactic. In the case of someone who had no qualms about doing it himself, I have no sympathy. But, in principle, it's not something I agree with.

Obstruction of someone on their own property is certainly unacceptable. Because of the scope for abuse, there should be a strict code of conduct, limitations and a requirement to prove that such actions are necessary for the public interest rather than just effective harassment tactics and good for sales.

[Dazzacity]

Im sorry but all this is really annoying me. These Liverpool fans seem to now think they're totally innocent..are they fook !! Tests have show that those that died had tickets and wasn't intoxicated. I thought it was common knowledge that those that died were those at the front.Those that got into the ground in good time prior to kick off and didnt stay in the pub gettin lashed a minute before kick-off.Its those that created the crush that needed to be checked for intoxitaction and whether they had tickets or not. I think we would have had a different outcome if that was the case. The Police got it wrong but Liverpool fans are also partly to blame. Its just that no fooker in the media etc has the balls to say it.

Im watching 'The footballers football show' and they even have the nerve to blame bad organizing for the likes of Heysle and the reason why there were 3 to a seat v Milan at the Champs League final.

What happened was awful and the Police have alot to answer for but the Liverpool fans are not totally innocent here.

[Dameerto]

A panel with access to all known documentation on the matter (some of which hasn't been made public yet) disagrees with your opinion. You could always go and browse the documentation that they HAVE made public, something in excess of 25,000 documents totalling over 450000 pages of information, all painstakingly sifted through, and converted into digital format for your convenience. Once you've done that come back and tell us if you've changed your mind.

[ronk]

To frame it as a police v Liverpool fans in terms of allocating blame is, I think, to miss the point.

There were many other forces at work and relevant stakeholders. There was the issue that the stadium was unsafe and that the problem was ignored by Wednesday fans, the ownership, the FA, the board of the football club, the government, the planning authorities etc.

This wasn't a weak link in a chain, it was all rotten. No one actually took responsibility instead if passing on the problem down the line.

There's more than enough blame to share out. To try to push it on one or other group distracts from the actual issue. If fans had acted differently it mightn't have happened, if the police had acted differently it wouldn't have happened (@ that exact moment).

Any time there's a crowd rush it's technically possible to blame the crowd, but rushes only happen where there's a bad design or an unexpected incident.

The authorities had a duty of care to those people and they failed miserably. Blaming the fans and continuing with business as usual wouldn't have solved anything.

The actions of some Liverpool fans probably contributed to the problem, but they had no way of knowing there was a problem until it was too late and there was no way to let them know.

[Dazzacity]

A panel with access to all known documentation on the matter (some of which hasn't been made public yet) disagrees with your opinion. You could always go and browse the documentation that they HAVE made public, something in excess of 25,000 documents totalling over 450000 pages of information, all painstakingly sifted through, and converted into digital format for your convenience. Once you've done that come back and tell us if you've changed your mind.

So, have you done this? I very much doubt it, yet you seem to think my opinion can be turned.I take it only those that have gone through the documents with a fine combe can comment on the matter? Im not defending the Police etc at all but stating that there is no way on earth the Liverpool fans are totally innocent in all of this. Something as simple as gettin to the ground 30 mins before kick-off and queueing at the turnstles in an orderly manner may have very much changed the outcome of things?.

[Chinners]

The main cause was the shepparding of fans by the police intro 2 of the 4 available pens. You don't need to be Columbo to work out that that is NOT the fault of the Liverpool fans who got there 30mins early or 2mins before kick-off

[Blue Since 76]

So, have you done this? I very much doubt it, yet you seem to think my opinion can be turned.I take it only those that have gone through the documents with a fine combe can comment on the matter? Im not defending the Police etc at all but stating that there is no way on earth the Liverpool fans are totally innocent in all of this. Something as simple as gettin to the ground 30 mins before kick-off and queueing at the turnstles in an orderly manner may have very much changed the outcome of things?.

Think the problems outside started about 2:30, so well before kick off. Have a look what time the majority get to the turnstiles at the Etihad on Sunday and then remind them of their duty of care.

However, I agree that we've gone from the fans were to blame and the police were innocent to the police were to blame and the fans were innocent. The blame is much, much wider than that - the police as a whole; the football hating politicians; the corrupt FA; the media; every fan who ever kicked some other fan's head in and more. Every single one of them took us along a path that left 96 dead. And it could have been fans of any club at half the grounds in the country.

Those who tried to cover it up deserve their punishment. But I'm not sure it's right to apportion blame for the day on any group now. That'd be like blaming some German squaddie for the Second World War. We need to remember the dead; be thankful that their deaths have at least made us all safer now and; hope the same mistakes are never made again.

[Beefymcfc]

So, have you done this? I very much doubt it, yet you seem to think my opinion can be turned.I take it only those that have gone through the documents with a fine combe can comment on the matter? Im not defending the Police etc at all but stating that there is no way on earth the Liverpool fans are totally innocent in all of this. Something as simple as gettin to the ground 30 mins before kick-off and queueing at the turnstles in an orderly manner may have very much changed the outcome of things?.

Think the problems outside started about 2:30, so well before kick off. Have a look what time the majority get to the turnstiles at the Etihad on Sunday and then remind them of their duty of care.

However, I agree that we've gone from the fans were to blame and the police were innocent to the police were to blame and the fans were innocent. The blame is much, much wider than that - the police as a whole; the football hating politicians; the corrupt FA; the media; every fan who ever kicked some other fan's head in and more. Every single one of them took us along a path that left 96 dead. And it could have been fans of any club at half the grounds in the country.

Those who tried to cover it up deserve their punishment. But I'm not sure it's right to apportion blame for the day on any group now. That'd be like blaming some German squaddie for the Second World War. We need to remember the dead; be thankful that their deaths have at least made us all safer now and; hope the same mistakes are never made again.

I very much agree with these kind of statements and sentiments. The ony innocent people for me were the ones who had the decency to listen to the advice and get there early, everybody else should hang their heads in shame. The government, the police, the club owners, any fans involved in trouble (not just one clubs), not one of them should walk away from this with their heads held high.

I'd like to see this put to rest but I doubt it very much. Yes, we should remember, but more importantly, we should never forget.

[leomcfc]

Sure it's not the Munich report??? Cos all I heard all week is the Munich story being wheeled out .

[Im_Spartacus]

Sure it's not the Munich report??? Cos all I heard all week is the Munich story being wheeled out .

They dont Ike their disaster to be overshadowed. Its bad for business.

[Alex Sapphire]

this thread's lost it's way
we'll be chanting it's never your fault next