Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:11 pm

london blue 2 wrote:
Tokyo Blue wrote:I find it impossible to tell conclusively on a still. However there is only one of those players going in with two feet.

Slur alex said it's ok as Evans got the ball...

This one still pisses me off. Nothing was mentioned about it after the VK sending off! Amazing.

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Mike Doyle or Summerbee would have just made sure that his full weight & studs landed on the twat's ankle if he'd done that back in the day. Totally ridiculous, nasty, uncalled for challenge & as you say; got off without even a mention.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby feedthegreek » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:24 pm

vidic out for 8 weeks after knee operation karma.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19718670
Last edited by feedthegreek on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Green & Blue » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:26 pm

feedthegreek wrote:vidic out for 8 weeks after knee operation karma.


Ahh that just made my afternoon.Cheers mate.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Original Dub » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Ferdinand and evans. That should help balance out the biased reffing somewhat.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby london blue 2 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:35 pm

Original Dub wrote:Ferdinand and evans. That should help balance out the biased reffing somewhat.

Exept Evans will take up his position of Fergies best defender in the league ;)

Thats good news, Fuck United!
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Alex Sapphire » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:40 pm

feedthegreek wrote:vidic out for 8 weeks after knee operation karma.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19718670


be back for the derby so maybe make a game of it this time
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Rag_hater » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:20 pm

There seems to be little doubt that the people who think there is an agenda against us secretly wish that a Italian sort of Calciopoli scandel could be discovered here but this is what the evidence points to when such a thing occurs.
The evidence seems to suggest that all the teams penalized after the enquiry for trying to illegally influence the results of their matches did not in fact achieve any better performance (statistically) when refereed by biased officials. Furthermore, quite surprisingly, the results, disaggregated by team, suggest that Juventus, the team accused of masterminding the whole system of corruption, has been the only one which consistently underperformed when directed by those bent referees.
So the EPL probably is bent but it makes fuckall difference.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:59 pm

"So the EPL probably is bent but it makes fuckall difference."

Ridiculous comment.

Meanwhile, here's a decent article I've read recently on the subject .

The Truth Is Out There


Some musings on how the rags always seem to get the referees they want and the decisions they want.

Not surprising, just sad.

-----

The Truth is Out There

Oliver Stone once said: “Paranoia is having all the facts”. Many of us die hard football fans know exactly what he means.

I've long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football.

I’m not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I'm downright skeptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, and media or football institutions. It's not me being paranoid either: week after week, I’m proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise).

When it comes to football, it's not even lack of trust. It's plain common sense.

In recent years, we've had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain's second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc...

Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean.

Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize monies in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long?

To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for 2 of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country's institutions. To them, it’s entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but it’s impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicenter of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England.

I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP's expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all...) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too?

I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefits from refereeing decisions. I don’t need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off.

I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Ferguson’s father’s friend Tony Pullis, also recalled their loan players from PNE.

The message was clear: Mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished.

And not just from Mr Ferguson either. By his friends in football.

Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that “The FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the past”.

Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games. Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of.

The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deem to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). It’s a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignement led to the Juventus scandal in 2006.

Winter’s comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United 2 biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so.

Alain Wiley refereed United’s 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained.

Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being “fat and unfit”. The game ended 2-2.

That would be the end of Wiley’s refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, “agreed to retire” at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows.

Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul.

There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one.

It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision.
The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: he’s been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City.

Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage.

So in closing, let’s resume what we’ve discovered. We have an ex premier league referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said referee’s words, don’t hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized.

We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and “agreed to retire” a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasn’t been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago.

Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Ferguson’s team.

Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Allistair Campbell’s diaries if you don’t believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into.

But yet, nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes United’s way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance.

In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In "so much cleaner than everywhere else" England, we’re paranoid.

Why is that?

Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdoch’s Sky live off the premier league. So do his other publications like the Sun. The English media’s last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows.

Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cow’s biggest cash cow, would also be devastating.

So it’s all swept under the tabled and every refereeing decision shrugged off. “They even themselves out” we’re told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection.

God knows what would happen to them if they investigate United’s behind the scenes dealings.

Maybe, like Preston, they’ll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too…

diminbeirut.typepad.com/my-blog/2012/09/the-truth-is-out-there.html
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Dameerto » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:11 pm

His view of the FA doesn't quite add up when you think of the touchline ban the FA gave Ferguson for criticising Atkinson, added to the fact they gave Atkinson the FA cup final at a time when it was very possible Utd could be in it (until we knocked them out and went on to lift the cup).
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Rag_hater » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:16 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:"So the EPL probably is bent but it makes fuckall difference."

Ridiculous comment.

Meanwhile, here's a decent article I've read recently on the subject .

The Truth Is Out There


Some musings on how the rags always seem to get the referees they want and the decisions they want.

Not surprising, just sad.

-----

The Truth is Out There

Oliver Stone once said: “Paranoia is having all the facts”. Many of us die hard football fans know exactly what he means.

I've long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football.

I’m not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I'm downright skeptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, and media or football institutions. It's not me being paranoid either: week after week, I’m proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise).

When it comes to football, it's not even lack of trust. It's plain common sense.

In recent years, we've had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain's second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc...

Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean.

Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize monies in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long?

To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for 2 of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country's institutions. To them, it’s entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but it’s impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicenter of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England.

I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP's expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all...) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too?

I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefits from refereeing decisions. I don’t need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off.

I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Ferguson’s father’s friend Tony Pullis, also recalled their loan players from PNE.

The message was clear: Mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished.

And not just from Mr Ferguson either. By his friends in football.

Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that “The FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the past”.

Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games. Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of.

The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deem to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). It’s a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignement led to the Juventus scandal in 2006.

Winter’s comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United 2 biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so.

Alain Wiley refereed United’s 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained.

Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being “fat and unfit”. The game ended 2-2.

That would be the end of Wiley’s refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, “agreed to retire” at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows.

Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul.

There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one.

It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision.
The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: he’s been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City.

Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage.

So in closing, let’s resume what we’ve discovered. We have an ex premier league referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said referee’s words, don’t hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized.

We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and “agreed to retire” a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasn’t been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago.

Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Ferguson’s team.

Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Allistair Campbell’s diaries if you don’t believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into.

But yet, nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes United’s way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance.

In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In "so much cleaner than everywhere else" England, we’re paranoid.

Why is that?

Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdoch’s Sky live off the premier league. So do his other publications like the Sun. The English media’s last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows.

Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cow’s biggest cash cow, would also be devastating.

So it’s all swept under the tabled and every refereeing decision shrugged off. “They even themselves out” we’re told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection.

God knows what would happen to them if they investigate United’s behind the scenes dealings.

Maybe, like Preston, they’ll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too…

diminbeirut.typepad.com/my-blog/2012/09/the-truth-is-out-there.html



Long Whiskeynose hating read that was not that illuminating really.You telling me every ref is a rag lover,rubbish.And if there are a couple who are I'm sure there is as many bent ones who are not therefore it cancels itself out there is proof of that not just allegations.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Tokyo Blue » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:19 pm

Rag_hater wrote:There seems to be little doubt that the people who think there is an agenda against us secretly wish that a Italian sort of Calciopoli scandel could be discovered here but this is what the evidence points to when such a thing occurs.
The evidence seems to suggest that all the teams penalized after the enquiry for trying to illegally influence the results of their matches did not in fact achieve any better performance (statistically) when refereed by biased officials. Furthermore, quite surprisingly, the results, disaggregated by team, suggest that Juventus, the team accused of masterminding the whole system of corruption, has been the only one which consistently underperformed when directed by those bent referees.
So the EPL probably is bent but it makes fuckall difference.


The attempt is illegal in itself. Whether it succeeds or not is irrelevant.

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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:26 pm

".You telling me every ref is a rag lover,rubbish."

When did I say anything like that, let alone tell you?
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Ted Hughes » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:41 pm

Dameerto wrote:His view of the FA doesn't quite add up when you think of the touchline ban the FA gave Ferguson for criticising Atkinson, added to the fact they gave Atkinson the FA cup final at a time when it was very possible Utd could be in it (until we knocked them out and went on to lift the cup).


He did come down with illness just when he was supposed to be reffing a Utd Liverpool cup game though.

I don't believe it's genuine, conscious corruption at FA Level based on trying to help Utd, it's people looking for the easy way out due to constant whinging from Utd's friends in the establishment & their media machine. They have just got into the habit of appeasing the whining old cunt & probably just do it to avoid controversy, without even realising the extent to which it is adding up.

The rags love to push the 'it all evens out' angle by documenting every single penalty decision they don't get & pretending it counter balances against the ones they do or the red cards they get away with but they just laugh at other clubs who do the same.

The FA probably listen to those kind of arguments & don't see what the fuss is about, as do a lot of the media. Utd gained an enormous advantage over us last season due to key decisions & it almost won them the league. Nobody in the media or the FA would have believed that was a factor, they would just say 'it all evens out'.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby ashton287 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:11 pm

Of course the FA are corrupt. There is money involved.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:16 pm

Those in charge are conspicuous in their absence of sorting this out. Many weeks there are various decisions that go for certain teams yet the hierarchy of these organisations allow it to go on.

As you say Ted, you see it as a subconcious way of protecting themselves yet they have an internal audit of the games, without any external validation. In these audits you would think that they would ensure parity between teams yet it goes on week-in/week-out. Why do these organisations allow this to happen, why isn't it stopped?

The article above just opens the door, it's up to individuals to see what they want. I class myself as a realist and usually see things from an impartial point of view. Some of the decisions over the last couple of seasons have been quite ridiculous yet as the author states, 'It all evens itself out'. Typically, we choose to believe this rather than what we see and understand. Afterall, nobody wants to believe that there could be any form of wrong-doing in the English game.

Who walks those hall's of power, understanding the hierarchy of football, and who gains, could give an insight into where we've been led for the last 20 odd years.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:20 pm

ashton287 wrote:Of course the FA are corrupt. There is money involved.

Succinctly put mate. There could be credence in that statement, not just for the FA.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:30 pm

CityGer wrote:Is it a seasonal thing?

I've read more shite on here over the last few days than I have in the previous five years.

Teams lying down for united, managers doing bacon 'favours', bent refs, bent fixture lists, bent PL, teams raising their agsinst us, the refs under instruction to keep the league interesting etc etc.

Get a fucking grip.

I've never heard anything like it. It's cringeworthy.

Thought it maybe appropriate to re-state the original context of this thread.

Where is CityGer anyway?
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Mase » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:31 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:Thought it maybe appropriate to re-state the original context of this thread.

Where is CityGer anyway?


Still up in Scotland pretending to be a Scot.
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Mase wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:Thought it maybe appropriate to re-state the original context of this thread.

Where is CityGer anyway?


Still up in Scotland pretending to be a Scot.

Pretending, I thought he was a fully fledge Glaswegian?
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Re: Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

Postby Mase » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:Pretending, I thought he was a fully fledge Glaswegian?


Born in Ardwick
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My favourite player is: Danny Tiatto

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