The Defence and Mancini.

[Blue Since 76]

Zonal marking works if used correctly, if a corner comes in you have to attack the ball you dont just fucking do a standing jump, the concept of zonal is marking the space but you still have to attack the ball.individual errors, lescott today, vinny last weekend.WTF is going on with our defence

But we don't attack the ball and never have. So why doesn't the manager do something about it?

what i saw from lescott at that corner was embarrassing, he is a england centre haalf and did not move to the ball, i mean he is a fooking international defender yet refused to move to attack the ball tactics or not an individual as to take responsibilty and defend, if a ball is going into your zone move to the fucking ball and clear it, dont just do a standing jump

Ignore Lescott and tonight, as the problem is bigger than that - none of them ever attack a ball into the box. Ever. Except Micah. Whether that is due to the type of player we have or them following instructions, I don't know, but they all just stand on the spot and try and outjump a running man. Same happens from attacking corners - outside Micah, who really attacks the ball with their head? Kompany against the rags last season and I can't think of another example. Actually, Micah doesn't really attack the ball, he's just got a phenomenal standing leap.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Zonal marking works if used correctly, if a corner comes in you have to attack the ball you dont just fucking do a standing jump, the concept of zonal is marking the space but you still have to attack the ball.individual errors, lescott today, vinny last weekend.WTF is going on with our defence

But we don't attack the ball and never have. So why doesn't the manager do something about it?

what i saw from lescott at that corner was embarrassing, he is a england centre haalf and did not move to the ball, i mean he is a fooking international defender yet refused to move to attack the ball tactics or not an individual as to take responsibilty and defend, if a ball is going into your zone move to the fucking ball and clear it, dont just do a standing jump

Im sick and tired of singling him out but I knew he would fuck up again tonight as he has done all season long , we got away with it up to now in the prem as we have managed to houdini our way out of trouble by scoring down the other end but we will not get away with it forever.

Ted et al wanting Lescott and Vinnie in the side no matter what is just as suicidal as Mancini losing the plot tonight.

How the fuck can you say that it's suicidal when we won the league & on the whole have played better this season in every single game when they have played together ?

Lescott fucked up tonight, Vinny has fucked up several times but they are our best defenders. The defence went to fucking pieces when Lescott went off. It's one thing having a couple of players making the odd mistake, it's another having a complete fucking shambles and teams running through us. Ajax didn't cause us manyt problems until Mancini changed it.

If they play together, they will sort it out. I recon, if they don't, & Lescott is replaced now, we are fucked.

Vinnie and Lescott have been utter utter pap all season when together and individually - they should be both dropped with nasti replacing the fucked up one and maybe Moving Micah into Vinnies spot.....and Im serious !

Mancini is NOT the fucking mesiah most thought he was/is.....hes unstable and it is worrying.

[Ted Hughes]

Carl, if we drop those two and you are wrong, we have spunked the league. We only need to drop off a few points and it's over.

None of the replacements for Vinny or Lescott have been better, in fact they have been worse. They are proven performers who were part of the best defence in the league last season. This season, when they have played together, we have, on the whole, defended better. Even tonight although there were mistakes, we were much better than v Real or Dortmund or Villa.

If we fuck this up now, we will blow the season, as both will lose confidence & when we realise we need them & that their replacements are nowhere near as good,, they will have lost the spirit that made us champs & the team will be in the same boat.

Messing with those two & the system at the start, is the reason we not as good defensively & ask any pro the best way to solve it, they will say 'put them together & leave them to it'.

[freshie]

I don't know from where this zonal marking stuff came, but we used it since Bobby came here, Hughes instead liked man marking.

Remember the second part of 2009-2010 and the first part of 2010-2011, when we complained here about that problem, that we let too many it, that it was bad, but then we sorted it out, well Bobby did.

Our zonal marking is the same, the problem is with the players that have something they don't like and because of that thing, they are poor. Just remember, this was the best defence in Europe, better than Madrid last year.


Let's get a thing strait, if we are it. Bobby is a great league manager, one of the best in the world, imho, but he is beyond mediocre in Europe. He was at us, Inter, Fiorentina and Lazio, he can't change that. The reason i think he has this "problem" is as fucked up it may sound at this level, is because he doesn't know the opponent and isn't capable of handle the unexpected. He does it very well with teams he saw every weekend, but when it comes to opponents that he doesn't know that well, he fails.

I am prepare to bet that he knows every tactic of WBA, Stoke and Norwich, but doesn't have a clue about Madrid, Real and Ajax, even if they are big clubs.

In that case he should scout the opposing teams a lot more

[PeterParker]

I am watching at the moment the highlights of the Chumps league night.

Look at Yaya when Ajax scores the second goal. Just fucking look at him. The ball is at a finger above his head and he refuses to jump, he is saying something and then let's the ball slide. He could had cleared it without any problem.

I am speechless.

[Ted Hughes]

I am watching at the moment the highlights of the Chumps league night.

Look at Yaya when Ajax scores the second goal. Just fucking look at him. The ball is at a finger above his head and he refuses to jump, he is saying something and then let's the ball slide. He could had cleared it without any problem.

I am speechless.

He was shocking for the 1st goal but it still should have been stopped.

I have argued the point on here though. that Yaya in Europe has turned in a lot of poor performances & been partly or wholly responsible for quite a few goals against. I don't know why.

[PeterParker]

I am watching at the moment the highlights of the Chumps league night.

Look at Yaya when Ajax scores the second goal. Just fucking look at him. The ball is at a finger above his head and he refuses to jump, he is saying something and then let's the ball slide. He could had cleared it without any problem.

I am speechless.

He was shocking for the 1st goal but it still should have been stopped.

I have argued the point on here though. that Yaya in Europe has turned in a lot of poor performances & been partly or wholly responsible for quite a few goals against. I don't know why.

Ted, i haven't saw something like that in my entire life. Maybe sky will show it, it was a close up camera. The corner is taken, Yaya is at the near post, he is saying something, i don't know to which player, then the balls past him a thew inches and he was with his feet on the ground, if he would had stood on his toes, not even a little jump, he could had deflected it.

It's so horrible that it's acually funny.

[Ted Hughes]

I am watching at the moment the highlights of the Chumps league night.

Look at Yaya when Ajax scores the second goal. Just fucking look at him. The ball is at a finger above his head and he refuses to jump, he is saying something and then let's the ball slide. He could had cleared it without any problem.

I am speechless.

He was shocking for the 1st goal but it still should have been stopped.

I have argued the point on here though. that Yaya in Europe has turned in a lot of poor performances & been partly or wholly responsible for quite a few goals against. I don't know why.

Ted, i haven't saw something like that in my life. Maybe sky will show it, it was a close up camera. The corner is taken, Yaya is at the near post, he is saying something, i don't know to which player, then the balls past him a thew inches and he was with his feet on the ground, if he would had stood on his toes, not even a little jump, he could had deflected it.

It's so horrible that it's acually funny.

It's the point I was making when everyone is going on at Lescott; you need to cut the ball out from that area at that height. Lescott should still have reacted better but if the ball comes into that area & you put me v Lescott or Vinny, I'll back myself to gt a touch on it because I'm running towards goal. Yaya is terrible at set pieces & did exactly the same v Cavani last season.

He should be given a non essential job in all matters of defending.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Carl, if we drop those two and you are wrong, we have spunked the league. We only need to drop off a few points and it's over.

None of the replacements for Vinny or Lescott have been better, in fact they have been worse. They are proven performers who were part of the best defence in the league last season. This season, when they have played together, we have, on the whole, defended better. Even tonight although there were mistakes, we were much better than v Real or Dortmund or Villa.

If we fuck this up now, we will blow the season, as both will lose confidence & when we realise we need them & that their replacements are nowhere near as good,, they will have lost the spirit that made us champs & the team will be in the same boat.

Messing with those two & the system at the start, is the reason we not as good defensively & ask any pro the best way to solve it, they will say 'put them together & leave them to it'.

I dont know if it will fuck our season up , all I know is what I see every week and its desperate stuff.We were embarrassed tonight by the poor team from the group and it was defensive fuckup that gave it them.

Its the same every time we concede and theres only 2 cunts at fault for the most part...Lescott and Vincent.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

[london blue 2]

Carl, your obsession with slating Lescott is getting ridiculous. To the point where he's single handedly getting the blame for every point we drop.

[Mike J]

The notion of dropping lescott AND our captain is absolute fucking lunacy. We may as well hand chelsea or utd the title because we would be no where near it.

[Ted Hughes]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

For a start, hardly any teams do 100% zonal marking, usually it's a mixture.

The idea is that, for instance a team like Stoke will all start running backwards forwards sideways grabbing pushing & if you detail say Vinny to mark Crouch & Lescott to mark Jones in the conventional manner, someone will collide with both of them or (just rugby tackle them) and their oppos will then run away free & have a free header should the ball be delivered to them.

With the zonal method, you stand Vinny & Lescott & others in areas of the box & say 'attack the ball when it comes into your area'.

Now there's a great big obvious problem here: if the defenders can only move a yard or so to jump/block but their opponent can gather momentum running towards them, if the ball is delivered in a 50/50 position at head height, he is going to win it because he is moving faster. So you station people at the near post to stop the ball coming in at that height & to watch for an attacker trying to sneak in & you station people to block the oppo from getting a run at our 6 yard box; just get in front of them & the job is done. When we had people like Boateng in the team, they would fail to do either of those jobs when asked & we conceded.

When we play Stoke, with our proper team in place they all carry this out & we rarely give away a free header. Then we play a bunch of lightweights & they all fall asleep. The main bloke who consistantly fails to do any of his jobs in this system is Yaya & he was given the near post job in Napoli, where he fell asleep & Cavani scored, & last night, where he let the ball sail over his head without jumping. Even just the action of jumping would at least spoil the attacker's clear view of the ball.

There were 2 Ajax players unmarked at the near post anyway though, so the ball could have gone to them. Usually you have several players in that area. Lescott should still have stopped the bloke getting a clean header & is ultimately responsible but to have nobody blocking, nobody near post & nobody on the goal line just seems as if the whole team was an absolute utter joke in that instance.

If they were being lined up to mark zonally on the training pitch, they would not be lined up like that. For England, I've seen Joe Hart get hold of Lampard by the shoulders & move him 1 foot, such is the accuracy of the set up. For City, a great big hole & nobody on the line.

I don't understand why so many people failed to do their jobs.

[Hazy2]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

For a start, hardly any teams do 100% zonal marking, usually it's a mixture.

The idea is that, for instance a team like Stoke will all start running backwards forwards sideways grabbing pushing & if you detail say Vinny to mark Crouch & Lescott to mark Jones in the conventional manner, someone will collide with both of them or (just rugby tackle them) and their oppos will then run away free & have a free header should the ball be delivered to them.

With the zonal method, you stand Vinny & Lescott & others in areas of the box & say 'attack the ball when it comes into your area'.

Now there's a great big obvious problem here: if the defenders can only move a yard or so to jump/block but their opponent can gather momentum running towards them, if the ball is delivered in a 50/50 position at head height, he is going to win it because he is moving faster. So you station people at the near post to stop the ball coming in at that height & to watch for an attacker trying to sneak in & you station people to block the oppo from getting a run at our 6 yard box; just get in front of them & the job is done. When we had people like Boateng in the team, they would fail to do either of those jobs when asked & we conceded.

When we play Stoke, with our proper team in place they all carry this out & we rarely give away a free header. Then we play a bunch of lightweights & they all fall asleep. The main bloke who consistantly fails to do any of his jobs in this system is Yaya & he was given the near post job in Napoli, where he fell asleep & Cavani scored, & last night, where he let the ball sail over his head without jumping. Even just the action of jumping would at least spoil the attacker's clear view of the ball.

There were 2 Ajax players unmarked at the near post anyway though, so the ball could have gone to them. Usually you have several players in that area. Lescott should still have stopped the bloke getting a clean header & is ultimately responsible but to have nobody blocking, nobody near post & nobody on the goal line just seems as if the whole team was an absolute utter joke in that instance.

If they were being lined up to mark zonally on the training pitch, they would not be lined up like that. For England, I've seen Joe Hart get hold of Lampard by the shoulders & move him 1 foot, such is the accuracy of the set up. For City, a great big hole & nobody on the line.

I don't understand why so many people failed to do their jobs.

Zonal marking will be undone with a quality ball, you also never settle as a team defending in this way as the corner or free kick taker puts into the area for runners who know where it going, Lescott is loose in a lot of aspects balance being one and last night he was done by a runner and leap, as he jumped the ball was heading for the corner, Gael was switched off Lescott is also like De Jong looking like a man on his way out and he knows it, that cannot be good for a team imo.

[Ted Hughes]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

For a start, hardly any teams do 100% zonal marking, usually it's a mixture.

The idea is that, for instance a team like Stoke will all start running backwards forwards sideways grabbing pushing & if you detail say Vinny to mark Crouch & Lescott to mark Jones in the conventional manner, someone will collide with both of them or (just rugby tackle them) and their oppos will then run away free & have a free header should the ball be delivered to them.

With the zonal method, you stand Vinny & Lescott & others in areas of the box & say 'attack the ball when it comes into your area'.

Now there's a great big obvious problem here: if the defenders can only move a yard or so to jump/block but their opponent can gather momentum running towards them, if the ball is delivered in a 50/50 position at head height, he is going to win it because he is moving faster. So you station people at the near post to stop the ball coming in at that height & to watch for an attacker trying to sneak in & you station people to block the oppo from getting a run at our 6 yard box; just get in front of them & the job is done. When we had people like Boateng in the team, they would fail to do either of those jobs when asked & we conceded.

When we play Stoke, with our proper team in place they all carry this out & we rarely give away a free header. Then we play a bunch of lightweights & they all fall asleep. The main bloke who consistantly fails to do any of his jobs in this system is Yaya & he was given the near post job in Napoli, where he fell asleep & Cavani scored, & last night, where he let the ball sail over his head without jumping. Even just the action of jumping would at least spoil the attacker's clear view of the ball.

There were 2 Ajax players unmarked at the near post anyway though, so the ball could have gone to them. Usually you have several players in that area. Lescott should still have stopped the bloke getting a clean header & is ultimately responsible but to have nobody blocking, nobody near post & nobody on the goal line just seems as if the whole team was an absolute utter joke in that instance.

If they were being lined up to mark zonally on the training pitch, they would not be lined up like that. For England, I've seen Joe Hart get hold of Lampard by the shoulders & move him 1 foot, such is the accuracy of the set up. For City, a great big hole & nobody on the line.

I don't understand why so many people failed to do their jobs.

Zonal marking will be undone with a quality ball, you also never settle as a team defending in this way as the corner or free kick taker puts into the area for runners who know where it going, Lescott is loose in a lot of aspects balance being one and last night he was done by a runner and leap, as he jumped the ball was heading for the corner, Gael was switched off Lescott is also like De Jong looking like a man on his way out and he knows it, that cannot be good for a team imo.

Well if Lescott is weak at defending aerially, I am the Pope. He is one of the best in the world. He will make mistakes sure, but if you are seriously suggesting that Lescott isn't good enough in the air, then we really are fucked because we will not find anyone better anywhere.

[Hazy2]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

For a start, hardly any teams do 100% zonal marking, usually it's a mixture.

The idea is that, for instance a team like Stoke will all start running backwards forwards sideways grabbing pushing & if you detail say Vinny to mark Crouch & Lescott to mark Jones in the conventional manner, someone will collide with both of them or (just rugby tackle them) and their oppos will then run away free & have a free header should the ball be delivered to them.

With the zonal method, you stand Vinny & Lescott & others in areas of the box & say 'attack the ball when it comes into your area'.

Now there's a great big obvious problem here: if the defenders can only move a yard or so to jump/block but their opponent can gather momentum running towards them, if the ball is delivered in a 50/50 position at head height, he is going to win it because he is moving faster. So you station people at the near post to stop the ball coming in at that height & to watch for an attacker trying to sneak in & you station people to block the oppo from getting a run at our 6 yard box; just get in front of them & the job is done. When we had people like Boateng in the team, they would fail to do either of those jobs when asked & we conceded.

When we play Stoke, with our proper team in place they all carry this out & we rarely give away a free header. Then we play a bunch of lightweights & they all fall asleep. The main bloke who consistantly fails to do any of his jobs in this system is Yaya & he was given the near post job in Napoli, where he fell asleep & Cavani scored, & last night, where he let the ball sail over his head without jumping. Even just the action of jumping would at least spoil the attacker's clear view of the ball.

There were 2 Ajax players unmarked at the near post anyway though, so the ball could have gone to them. Usually you have several players in that area. Lescott should still have stopped the bloke getting a clean header & is ultimately responsible but to have nobody blocking, nobody near post & nobody on the goal line just seems as if the whole team was an absolute utter joke in that instance.

If they were being lined up to mark zonally on the training pitch, they would not be lined up like that. For England, I've seen Joe Hart get hold of Lampard by the shoulders & move him 1 foot, such is the accuracy of the set up. For City, a great big hole & nobody on the line.

I don't understand why so many people failed to do their jobs.

Zonal marking will be undone with a quality ball, you also never settle as a team defending in this way as the corner or free kick taker puts into the area for runners who know where it going, Lescott is loose in a lot of aspects balance being one and last night he was done by a runner and leap, as he jumped the ball was heading for the corner, Gael was switched off Lescott is also like De Jong looking like a man on his way out and he knows it, that cannot be good for a team imo.

Well if Lescott is weak at defending aerially, I am the Pope. He is one of the best in the world. He will make mistakes sure, but if you are seriously suggesting that Lescott isn't good enough in the air, then we really are fucked because we will not find anyone better anywhere.

Ted stop it, I never said he is weak in the air, He is a loose player and one who our Manager knows is not gonna get better so he does not play him at Madrid or against Dortmund. Lescott is fine enough until he is closed down or as of last night have nobody to mark. Carl is harsh, with him, fact is Lescott like Barry has limitations one of them is he is not pro active he is reactive and last night the split second reaction was to late, he also is as I said last season poor on the ball at this level always of balance, hence studed passes to the keeper of hoof, sorry Ted he is a good player who strugles against the technical players who make runs on him. Barry is the same Milner the same, great engines run all day no time and rushed in everything they do at this level. Thats why he wants De Rossi.

[paulmclaren]

For me, it's not about the players it's about the trust, between the tactical changes and the trust in Mancini himself.

Do the players trust Mancini? After tonights tactical genius I'd be amazed if any of the players know what is really going on.

But at the end of the day a manager can only say so much, it's them over paid fucks that make there own legs move, in Toures case not.
So what can he do?
He could drop alot of them but then what would that course, mayhem.
Everyone will throw there dummy's out, so it will be same 11 next game.

[Ted Hughes]

How exactly is zonal marking supposed to work?

OK everyone has a starting position but I assume once the kick is on the way it's important to react to where it is going. Barry,as the guy there to head away the short one didn't move to head it clear which seemed an obvious thing to do.I am not sure where Yaya was but Lescott reacted too slowly although I wouldnt name him as the prime culprit and then Clichy who was "standing in no man's land effecting nothing" (roughly what the pundit's said).All he had to do was anticipate the flicked header and he clears it off the line.

Anyway overall I don't think we have conceded that many from zonal marking in the last 2 years or so have we? Some of course but not that many but the trouble is when we do it looks so amateurish and we go mad about it.

For a start, hardly any teams do 100% zonal marking, usually it's a mixture.

The idea is that, for instance a team like Stoke will all start running backwards forwards sideways grabbing pushing & if you detail say Vinny to mark Crouch & Lescott to mark Jones in the conventional manner, someone will collide with both of them or (just rugby tackle them) and their oppos will then run away free & have a free header should the ball be delivered to them.

With the zonal method, you stand Vinny & Lescott & others in areas of the box & say 'attack the ball when it comes into your area'.

Now there's a great big obvious problem here: if the defenders can only move a yard or so to jump/block but their opponent can gather momentum running towards them, if the ball is delivered in a 50/50 position at head height, he is going to win it because he is moving faster. So you station people at the near post to stop the ball coming in at that height & to watch for an attacker trying to sneak in & you station people to block the oppo from getting a run at our 6 yard box; just get in front of them & the job is done. When we had people like Boateng in the team, they would fail to do either of those jobs when asked & we conceded.

When we play Stoke, with our proper team in place they all carry this out & we rarely give away a free header. Then we play a bunch of lightweights & they all fall asleep. The main bloke who consistantly fails to do any of his jobs in this system is Yaya & he was given the near post job in Napoli, where he fell asleep & Cavani scored, & last night, where he let the ball sail over his head without jumping. Even just the action of jumping would at least spoil the attacker's clear view of the ball.

There were 2 Ajax players unmarked at the near post anyway though, so the ball could have gone to them. Usually you have several players in that area. Lescott should still have stopped the bloke getting a clean header & is ultimately responsible but to have nobody blocking, nobody near post & nobody on the goal line just seems as if the whole team was an absolute utter joke in that instance.

If they were being lined up to mark zonally on the training pitch, they would not be lined up like that. For England, I've seen Joe Hart get hold of Lampard by the shoulders & move him 1 foot, such is the accuracy of the set up. For City, a great big hole & nobody on the line.

I don't understand why so many people failed to do their jobs.

Zonal marking will be undone with a quality ball, you also never settle as a team defending in this way as the corner or free kick taker puts into the area for runners who know where it going, Lescott is loose in a lot of aspects balance being one and last night he was done by a runner and leap, as he jumped the ball was heading for the corner, Gael was switched off Lescott is also like De Jong looking like a man on his way out and he knows it, that cannot be good for a team imo.

Well if Lescott is weak at defending aerially, I am the Pope. He is one of the best in the world. He will make mistakes sure, but if you are seriously suggesting that Lescott isn't good enough in the air, then we really are fucked because we will not find anyone better anywhere.

Ted stop it, I never said he is weak in the air, He is a loose player and one who our Manager knows is not gonna get better so he does not play him at Madrid or against Dortmund. Lescott is fine enough until he is closed down or as of last night have nobody to mark. Carl is harsh, with him, fact is Lescott like Barry has limitations one of them is he is not pro active he is reactive and last night the split second reaction was to late, he also is as I said last season poor on the ball at this level always of balance, hence studed passes to the keeper of hoof, sorry Ted he is a good player who strugles against the technical players who make runs on him. Barry is the same Milner the same, great engines run all day no time and rushed in everything they do at this level. Thats why he wants De Rossi.

I will agree to all of those criticisms provided they are all levelled at Vinny, Cahil, Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Micah, Nastasic, Subotic, Hummels & just about every other central defender in the world. We were getting behind Dortmund with straight balls; schoolboy stuff, yet people cream about their defenders. Put our cbs in the same situation, making the same mistakes & it would be because they are not good enough.

Some defenders are a bit better on the ball than JL & Vinny. Few are better at actually defending; they all fuck up.

It's about partnerships. Ours has been the best in the country. Lescott is one of the best cbs City have ever had & so is Vinny.

If we are to replace either them, it should be by someone who is certainly better, not someone who makes no improvement but looks better.

[Hazy2]

one thing we are lacking is mobility all over the pich and for me a lack of pace. What we did last night was allow them to get a a tempo, we had the game by the throat at 1-0 and fucked it up. I have no beef with any of the players, what has riled me is the easy way in which European teams are getting at us, Madrid went for us we should have won, Dortmund sussed us and Ajax out worked and out thought us when we should have allowed our game to take over after a period of look and see we allowed it to happen, so Roberto needs to sort it, the centrehalfs were marking space all night and 1-3 is the reult, but to balance it we missed 3 one on one's, Kun looked lost and the word Chaos was what ensued. Not good enough for the star quality of our squad. Ted I will state this now, Madrid will be more of a threat at our place than they were at The Bernabao, and even a drubbing might happen if we are not at it.

[carl_feedthegoat]

What I cannot work out is if the new defensive coach that cannot communicate with the players in English has anything to do with the inept performances of Vinny and Lescott....On the one hand Im hoping it has but Im probably cltching at straws here.

Why Mancini felt it necesary to bring in a defensive coach to coach the best defence in the prem is beyond me....Im lost for explanations.