Trust

[Beefymcfc]

With so many changes and the likes of a 19 year old Nasti being played against Real, have the players lost trust in Mancini?

[Ted Hughes]

Not yet but if he continues with the kind of mental substitutions & body language we saw tonight, then blames individuals afterwards, they will & that will be the end of him.

[Biamp]

I would say they are on the verge of losing trust, there or thereabout. It all depends on what kind of reaction we'll get against Swansea, and how well we play on the games leading to the home game against Ajax.

[Biamp]

Not yet but if he continues with the kind of mental substitutions & body language we saw tonight, then blames individuals afterwards, they will & that will be the end of him.

I don't him remember blaming any individuals, if anything he blamed himself. And he said he didn't prepare for the game in the manner in other words.

[Ted Hughes]

Not yet but if he continues with the kind of mental substitutions & body language we saw tonight, then blames individuals afterwards, they will & that will be the end of him.

I don't him remember blaming any individuals, if anything he blamed himself. And he said he didn't prepare for the game in the manner in other words.

Fair enough. There were suggestions he had but I've not heard anything to base it on.

His whole demeanour tonight was not a man in control though, rather someone who needed help.

He needs to keep control over himself & put the right face on things, even if we lose. He can be annoyed, even unsportsmanlike but he can't lose his direction or sink into depression. He is manager of the champions & a winner & has to portray that even on a bad day.

[AG7]

After having watched the game in shock (which was being recorded too), I came and read the 14,000+ whatever comments in all different threads about whose to blame, I went back and watched the whole game re-run ... this time more objectively ... was still shocking but to me I was able to pin-point one single point in the game which became our downfall tonight, and which was very very worrying ...

We went a goal up, pure luck, a break, a pass of beauty from Richards first and ending with a collected finish by Nasri. Till then we weren't the better team but 1-0 up great. We switched off close to end of the half which gave away the equalizer, still no issues 1-1 at half time.

We then start the second half well, aggressively, on the front foot ... so far so good, then we give away a silly goal off a set piece. Still no problem, we are 2-1 down and plenty of time to come back and make it 3-2 ... and up until now I watching the game am thinking, OK, no worries, let's focus and get back, we just need one goal to equalize and shift the momentum in our favour and then find a winner ... and we have ample time to do so as well ... but then this very moment the whole decision making went to hell by Mancini to all the way by players, I don't know why they panicked so much, they looked as if they'd seen a ghost. Mancini subs Lescott and switches to 3 at the back ... and this one single point fucked us over. Right when I was thinking no worries we just need one goal quickly to get back to equal terms and then have enough time to get a winner too, I start having nightmares that this is the recipe for a 3rd and 4th goal by them ... and that's exactly what happened. No one knew what the fuck they were doing there on. You have to see all their faces, the people on the bench, incl. Mancini and everyone on the field ... they all looked absolutely clueless as if they' are school boys and have been thrown in to play pros and they seemed as if we were 10-0 down.

Sort it out, whoever the fuck needs to sort this out, be it the Sheikh or Kahldoon coming down hard on Mancini or Mancini on players or some of the players raising their hands themselves and admitting they blanked out right about their second goal and then on instead of playing the game and looking for a way back in all seemed to be looking for an excuse not to ...

Having said all that, we could win the next three games and still qualify ... or we could end up going to Europa League again this time and maybe winning that this year ... Europa League first, then the Champions League ... I don't think anyone will say no to that if that's what happened by next summer!

All of a sudden Swansea at home looks a big huge game on the weekend ... mentally that it for the players, they need to get that sorted like by tomorrow.

[SmallTimeCharlie]

Sorry, didn't read it all as too early, but YOU WENT BACK AND WATCHED THE WHOLE GAME AGAIN???

Last thing I want to do when we have lost is see the game again - way too gutted. I immediately forget that football even exists and go do something else entirely.

Are you one of those blokes that likes high heels in your scrotum too?

[ashton287]

The first goal was typical of city this season. Striker in the box COMPLETELY unmarked after 3/4 steps. Has been the same in the league all season.

The second bad defending, no one tracked the runner. Ridiculous. There is no communication in the defence. He ran in between 3 defenders none of which could be arsed going for it.

The 3rd goal. Foul. Ajax player had both arms around Barry (think it was Barry) and just dragged him down. Then a stuffy deflection.

I have lost trust in our defence. I can understand why he feels the need to have 3 CB's on the pitch because they are all fucking shit. Complete and utter shit.

It's hilarious that this is SSN's "top story this morning". Fucking plebs.

[Mike J]

If he keeps chopping and changing then it wont be long. Also as we have heard in the past his player manager communication skills seem to be really shit.

[Dubaimancityfan]

I think what AJ7 is spot on and I have to say many others made the same point.
Mancini just panicked after the 2nd goal when he went to 3 at the back when there was plenty of time to come back and win the match. I think it was pure arrogance from Mancini that made him take that decision. He believed we can come back but made a tactical change so that when we did, he would have taken the credit for it.
Well it didn't work and he and he alone should take the blame for this loss.
Of course the players have to take some of the blame (defending for the 2nd goal was pathetic !!) but they were not given the chance to save the match by all the stupid changes that Mancini made.

[Swales4ever]

Many thanks Beefy, for a positive thread among plenty of useless moaning, for steam off sake only.
I remember myself starting a thread moved by the very same feeling in the aftermath of the last year's misery at the Emirates. Although yesterday shame, all considered, certainly hit a new low in the recent history of the Club's let downs.

now, I am far from dusted, but hope I can manage to post some thoughts, free of rage.

1st of all, let's wipe off the manager from debate: like each director in charge of a given delegation he is the ultimate responsible of the overall operative results, at a certain time given by the board/shareholders. the quality of his work and subsequent consideration will be assessed then, accorded to targets given.

once reminded that, mainly for the use of our most sensible and balanced posters, whose opinions I read tonight are too much affected by emotions, rage, scapegoat hunting and all that, I'd move to the topic, which for the second time in few months I do perceive as a serious issue: HAS THE MANAGER LOST HIS PLAYERS? last time I wondered this it ended with the title. I hope that history might repeat but, even it does, it won't brush away the shame of the letting down of our colours, despite the expectations of the Owner and, even more important, the passion of few thousands of travelling Blues who have spent hundreds of hard earned dosh to get there, right behind the beloved Club, the manager and the "boys".

what I saw yesterday, were not the effort of my every game's heroes, who always make me proud as they have made me, more than ever, not later than last saturday. Yesterday I saw a bunch of lazy twats, strolling about in random order like bored pensioners, not arsed of fighting for a pivotal moment for the Club's sporting enhancement.

I read hundreds of post shouting at Mancini idiocy and footballing cluelessness and I find weird that nobody, licker or not, reported the same impression that I got of the manager tactical desperation of last night.
When You see a manager of proved winning experience, praised and often even taunted for his maniacal attention for tactical balance, ending a game with one midfielder, four strikers and a winger/playmaker You can only have 2 different points of view:
1) He has turned, all the sudden, into the worst blend of Mark Hughes and Stuart Pierce
2) He knows what players are about, cause he lives next to them and they are his choosen team, he tried to nerve them at half time, then tried to adjust the play swapping to back 3 and introducing Kolarov in the hope of generating an impulse to push forward and feed Dzeko with crosses, but the result was yet a bunch of players moving randomly, not arsed to get first on the ball, challenge for it and jump to head it first. he then assesed that there was not a team playing an organized game and went for the last, desperate choice: because we are not playing as an organized team let's try to field all the most talented players in the ultimate hope that a single trick can sort it out! It obviously didn't worked as it rarely does in situation like that.

Now as a Blue fan, I am only interested in the Club's success and enhancement and, as I stated many times, I want not less than the best in each key role: playing and managing staff, on level with the best Owner and Chairman one can dream of.
On such assumption I cannot even consider to take players who haven't got a bright intention to respect roles and hierarchy at the Clubs. Players have been chased and carefully selected to built the best team in the world of football and had been all made clear of the massive demand of skill, commitment and performance asked at this Great Club at present, and rewarded, for their supposed abilities, with wages that most top managers of the ordinary economy can only dream of.
NOW, ON SUCH ASSUMPTION: HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU EVEN DARE TO THINK OF NOT BEING ABLE TO FEATURE, ADJUST AND DEVELOP THE ABILITY TO PLAY DIFFERENT STYLES IN DIFFERENT MOMENTS OF A GAME OR IN DIFFERENT GAME???
Do You think of not being capable to learn to play like that: right and fair enough: then just cut Your wages and fuck off to Sunderland, Fiorentina, Osasuna or Volfsburg: MCFC aim to be best in the world and demand best, in terms of class, skill, desire, capability and attitude to develop and progress!
Have any of You ever thought, when moving to an higher school, I won't be able to learn more, to add more skill, quality and culture to my baggage of competence? so why, then, should do it people who are paid ludicrous money to play the most exciting game?

I have already stated that I am not a fan of the back 3 and also have already argued the Mancini stubborness in introducing this contingency system of play on the wrong summer, when all the key players didn't attend the preseason: but this doesn't change the fact that all the best players MUST be capable of featuring different styles of play to adjust to different tactical challenges.
THE CLUB have choosen a manager to shape, forge and develop a team and its member must follow his instruction and vision: anarchy never produced any good and if a player think to know football better than his manager and want to impose his tactical creed, he should quit and start a managing career.

Time will tell and if the season should end with the evidence that the manager has lost the players' believe, trust and /or respect, there is no doubt in mind that the Chairman should and will replace the role, simply because the manager would have proven himself not fit for the role. YET, AGAIN, those bunch of supposed professionals will be asked and challenged by the next incumbent to feature flexible options of play along the game and the season...

As it stands now I only want to recover some passion to sing the Blues with the same intensity of feeling as I've always felt.

[Beefymcfc]

Mancio, this was not a dig at Mancini but a question regarding his judgement and how the players perceived it. Richards comments were quite telling and it leads me to believe that they don't quite know what they are doing, probably backed up with what we've seen this season so far.

Players are not used to change and it showed last season when we put the same team out for the last 6 games. Not playing a PL winning CB wasn't only about Lescott's game but more about the bloke I thought he was looking after next to him, Kompany. When you force that break on players, you complicate that trust with the manager, especially if there is no need.

Some may feel that this thread was aimed at undermining Mancini, it is not. It's a thread to gauge debate on why things have not gone so well in Europe, and the Prem for that matter, and what Mancini needs to do to put things right. Personally, I think we aren't arsed and are happy to follow in the Rags footsteps, taking our time to make it to the top (CL wise). That's why Mancini got such a long contract.

[Swales4ever]

Mancio, this was not a dig at Mancini but a question regarding his judgement and how the players perceived it. Richards comments were quite telling and it leads me to believe that they don't quite know what they are doing, probably backed up with what we've seen this season so far.

Players are not used to change and it showed last season when we put the same team out for the last 6 games. Not playing a PL winning CB wasn't only about Lescott's game but more about the bloke I thought he was looking after next to him, Kompany. When you force that break on players, you complicate that trust with the manager, especially if there is no need.

Some may feel that this thread was aimed at undermining Mancini, it is not. It's a thread to gauge debate on why things have not gone so well in Europe, and the Prem for that matter, and what Mancini needs to do to put things right. Personally, I think we aren't arsed and are happy to follow in the Rags footsteps, taking our time to make it to the top (CL wise). That's why Mancini got such a long contract.

Beefy, Pal,
If I give You that impression (undermining and having a dig), it just means that my english is getting down to the worst low ever touched.
as I started, I do share Your very exact feeling and I genuinely believe that this is the only constuctive and positive thread started since the blow of the final whistle on our European challenge.
sorry if I spelled it badly.

[Beefymcfc]

Mancio, this was not a dig at Mancini but a question regarding his judgement and how the players perceived it. Richards comments were quite telling and it leads me to believe that they don't quite know what they are doing, probably backed up with what we've seen this season so far.

Players are not used to change and it showed last season when we put the same team out for the last 6 games. Not playing a PL winning CB wasn't only about Lescott's game but more about the bloke I thought he was looking after next to him, Kompany. When you force that break on players, you complicate that trust with the manager, especially if there is no need.

Some may feel that this thread was aimed at undermining Mancini, it is not. It's a thread to gauge debate on why things have not gone so well in Europe, and the Prem for that matter, and what Mancini needs to do to put things right. Personally, I think we aren't arsed and are happy to follow in the Rags footsteps, taking our time to make it to the top (CL wise). That's why Mancini got such a long contract.

Beefy, Pal,
If I give You that impression (undermining and having a dig), it just means that my english is getting down to the worst low ever touched.
as I started, I do share Your very exact feeling and I genuinely believe that this is the only constuctive and positive thread started since the blow of the final whistle on our European challenge.
sorry if I spelled it badly.

May have been me pal, it was a long post.

[Swales4ever]

Yap, if You'd happened to hear me speaking italian, You'd understand that synthesis it's not among my abilities... ;)

[Beefymcfc]

I'm just trying to fathom out what we are actually playing at, I'm totally lost. The only thing I can possibly comprehend is that, as previously stated by all at the club, that we aren't interested with the CL, as if it's not part of the plan. I can almost see the boardroom meetings saying that we are not to make headway in Europe as it will not be good for the club. Winning things too soon just doesn't look right and won't tempt the GHs across.

Crazy thoughts but the only reason I can think why we have been so crass in Europe.

[Swales4ever]

I'm just trying to fathom out what we are actually playing at, I'm totally lost. The only thing I can possibly comprehend is that, as previously stated by all at the club, that we aren't interested with the CL, as if it's not part of the plan. I can almost see the boardroom meetings saying that we are not to make headway in Europe as it will not be good for the club. Winning things too soon just doesn't look right and won't tempt the GHs across.

Crazy thoughts but the only reason I can think why we have been so crass in Europe.

I'M LOST too and, upon 2 nights of thinkering, I also have stopped trying to fathom out what.
As LAHAD says on today's bollox we are ging to know it, starting from (but not limited to) tomorrow evening.

all I know is just that I am annoyed and fed up of these farcial let downs on pivotal games for our colour.
Either the manager will continue to get stonghold of the team and impose them to play how he wants and according to their supposed class and potential or the Club will better appoint a stronger character, capable of sticking performances right up to their arses. no further mind wanking required. I'd love to see and watch them saying to Taggart "I dont fancy/trust playing like this or that", for fuck's sake!
the supposed difference between European and domestic football is utter crap of bollox: managers and players are either good or bad, irrespectively of the name and venue of the game. the pitch is alway green grass and the ball is still round and in front You always have 11 bastards fighting to get the ball ahead of You.

what we saw, not for the first time, wednesday, I REPEAT on a pivotal game for the CLUB ENHANCEMENT has no excuse whatsoever: the team fielded was at least doulble the better on paper, we went early upfront and the opponents even looked staggering for about a quarter after we bagged it home. and They were even backed by a great and brave Blue Army singing out loud...

They should have just delivered what the CLUB expected from them, given the striding differnce in quality on the ground. Even if there was Your daughter on the bench instead of mancini... given all the favourable circumstances recalled above.
Otherwise You quit and claim, fairly, not to be good enough to carry the Blue flag around the world.
END OF.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm just trying to fathom out what we are actually playing at, I'm totally lost. The only thing I can possibly comprehend is that, as previously stated by all at the club, that we aren't interested with the CL, as if it's not part of the plan. I can almost see the boardroom meetings saying that we are not to make headway in Europe as it will not be good for the club. Winning things too soon just doesn't look right and won't tempt the GHs across.

Crazy thoughts but the only reason I can think why we have been so crass in Europe.

I'M LOST too and, upon 2 nights of thinkering, I also have stopped trying to fathom out what.
As LAHAD says on today's bollox we are ging to know it, starting from (but not limited to) tomorrow evening.

all I know is just that I am annoyed and fed up of these farcial let downs on pivotal games for our colour.
Either the manager will continue to get stonghold of the team and impose them to play how he wants and according to their supposed class and potential or the Club will better appoint a stronger character, capable of sticking performances right up to their arses. no further mind wanking required. I'd love to see and watch them saying to Taggart "I dont fancy/trust playing like this or that", for fuck's sake!
the supposed difference between European and domestic football is utter crap of bollox: managers and players are either good or bad, irrespectively of the name and venue of the game. the pitch is alway green grass and the ball is still round and in front You always have 11 bastards fighting to get the ball ahead of You.

what we saw, not for the first time, wednesday, I REPEAT on a pivotal game for the CLUB ENHANCEMENT has no excuse whatsoever: the team fielded was at least doulble the better on paper, we went early upfront and the opponents even looked staggering for about a quarter after we bagged it home. and They were even backed by a great and brave Blue Army singing out loud...

They should have just delivered what the CLUB expected from them, given the striding differnce in quality on the ground. Even if there was Your daughter on the bench instead of mancini... given all the favourable circumstances recalled above.
Otherwise You quit and claim, fairly, not to be good enough to carry the Blue flag around the world.
END OF.

Mancio, I've just said elsewhere that imo, we had actually started to play as we should & were looking like the team we can be. Then JL dropped a bollock at the corner & Bob destroyed the team rather than let them fight back.

I agree that the talk of special tactics for the Champions League is a load of bollocks but the players and manager seem to perform below standard as soon as they hear the theme music.

We all have our opinions on Gary Neville but he has played a lot of games in the Champions Lg & he was stating on commentary that City would hammer Ajax if they just played like they do every week & put them to the sword. Imo, we wer doing exactly that when JL fucked up that corner kick. All e had to do, was continue playing the same way & imo we would have got at least one, probably two goals back.

[walmai]

By way of caveat, I didn't see the match against Ajax, although I've read more than one account of it, on here and in the paper.

Trust could perhaps be said to be something arising out of sense of both discipline and reliability. For example, you'd probably have said that last year Swansea's squad trusted Brendan Rogers. They had spent time as a squad being coached in a fairly precise manner, could rely on his methods - especially when they led to good results - and understood their individual roles (and that they forged the team spirit).

I detect two things as an outside observer for City, Mancini and his squad.

1. Some players may have stayed silent at the time, but would have expected their coach to be true to his word that (paraphrasing) Tevez was finished at the club. If the despised Taggart said that, there's no way he would let events contradict him. It shows weakness. I know you'll be thinking that Rooney sailed close to the wind in that regard, but Taggart never made such a bold declaration. Actions speak louder than words. Tevez back in the fold imo leaves Mancini on shaky ground.

2. Mancini is not ice-cool in times of crisis. A bit of old-fashioned panic may have arisen on Weds, if the reports of the constant chopping and changing of positions/roles for the players is accurate. Again, if a player - or, worse still, a whole team - is confused as to what is expected, he will lose trust in the person giving the orders.

This season will prove harder for Mancini than the last, or the one before that. If this board on Weds is anything to go by, he now has a heavy weight of the expectation of continued, even expanded, success on his shoulders. However, saying that, I still see you as only really getting going domestically. It would still in most neutrals eyes represent a success for Mancini if he repeated his title-winning exploits this time around, even if he doesn't go any further in Europe*. Its just that he needs the trust of his biggest performers in order to have a good shot at that.


*On that point, I reckon he'd privately prefer to come 4th in the CL group than face the Thurs trek on the Europa for the rest of the season.

[Swales4ever]

Yes Mate,
Joleon dropped a bollox, even if I much more tend to agree with Your original assessment of it, as you explained to Carl.
But , yet again, when You see a shame like that You cannot single out one player. the equalizer 2 minutes before the tea, was a pub football casuality. Yaya, best midfielder of the world, strolled like a zombie and I am still wondering why the hell Bob always insists in keeping him in when we all know what he does when is not arsed. the famous thread is there just for that.

FROM MANCINI, DOWN BELOW, EVERYONE IN THE PLAYING STAFF MUST UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN MEANING FROM MCFC AND ASTON VILLA OR VALENCIA OR SAMPDORIA!
For the rest, with Trixi coming, we are already top of the best, therefore I'm pissed but very confident for the future. And if Mancini is not good enough to lead by example and stamp his winning idea on any lazy twat, he can right fuck off at the end of the season. I won't settle for nothing less than a Taggart-like bastard, perhaps just not as arrogant and cheating.

THIS GREAT CLUB HAVE SUFFERED TOO LONG AND PAID ALL POSSIBLE DUES TO MISFORTUNE AND NOW DESERVE TO TAKE FULL BENEFITS FROM HAVING WON THE LOTTERY, WHICH MEANS STAMPING THE CLUB'S TOP MARKS IN THE FOOTBALL HISTORY.