*** Sunderland v Champions - Official Match Thread ***

[Mase]

Great, just fucking great. I really like Joe, but he makes his fair share of blunders. He's not top class yet, I think that much is clear.

I think the major problem is he thinks he's top class.

[Moonchesteri]

I hate to say it, I really really hate to say it, but we need Gareth Ba....

My jaw dropped for a second after I got to this part.
Should've known better;)

[Beefymcfc]

Our fucking front men are shit at the moment, that's where our problem is. Forget about the fact that we are going down the middle or out wide, our strikers are just not doing it. I noticed mid-way through the 2nd half that we don't even take the space in the middle, choosing to either drop short or stay on their defensive line. Where's the movement, where's the dropping deep to drag players away, where's the fucking urgency!

Another team that parked the bus and forced our front players to do something special. They're just not stepping up to the plate. Tevez is busy but no end product at the moment. Aguero has just been anonymous compared to his usual standards. Big Dave is still trying to pass through the eye of a needle and Yaya just isn't doing it sat in front of Garcia. To be honest, Garcia is just not good enough yet and I don't know why he gets a start.

Their goal pissed me off no end though. Zab's was clearly fouled yet the ref let them play on. Zab's knew how AJ played and was forcing him wide all game yet once down it was left to Nasti to deal, who then allowed him on the inside. After the shot though, Hart should've been across and down yet his head seemed tobe elsewhere for thatsplit second. A fuck up from all angles I'd say.

The overarching problem for me is not getting any first team players in during the window. We've not refreshed the team enough and there are many players who know they are assured of a place. Add to that, that the oppo know all about our players then it allows them to counter the mistakes they made last year .

All-in-all, a bad day that can only get worse unless our forwards start bagging. It's no good having £100 million plus of attacking quality without any of them having ability to put it past the keeper.

[Ted Hughes]

Our fucking front men are shit at the moment, that's where our problem is. Forget about the fact that we are going down the middle or out wide, our strikers are just not doing it. I noticed mid-way through the 2nd half that we don't even take the space in the middle, choosing to either drop short or stay on their defensive line. Where's the movement, where's the dropping deep to drag players away, where's the fucking urgency!

Another team that parked the bus and forced our front players to do something special. They're just not stepping up to the plate. Tevez is busy but no end product at the moment. Aguero has just been anonymous compared to his usual standards. Big Dave is still trying to pass through the eye of a needle and Yaya just isn't doing it sat in front of Garcia. To be honest, Garcia is just not good enough yet and I don't know why he gets a start.

Their goal pissed me off no end though. Zab's was clearly fouled yet the ref let them play on. Zab's knew how AJ played and was forcing him wide all game yet once down it was left to Nasti to deal, who then allowed him on the inside. After the shot though, Hart should've been across and down yet his head seemed tobe elsewhere for thatsplit second. A fuck up from all angles I'd say.

The overarching problem for me is not getting any first team players in during the window. We've not refreshed the team enough and there are many players who know they are assured of a place. Add to that, that the oppo know all about our players then it allows them to counter the mistakes they made last year .

All-in-all, a bad day that can only get worse unless our forwards start bagging. It's no good having £100 million plus of attacking quality without any of them having ability to put it past the keeper.

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

[Cocacolajojo1]

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

We didn't talk about this problem one year ago though. Nor at the end of the end of of the 10-11 season. So there is plenty of evidence that we could but we've had a few problems this season that's for sure.

[Ted Hughes]

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

We didn't talk about this problem one year ago though. Nor at the end of the end of of the 10-11 season. So there is plenty of evidence that we could but we've had a few problems this season that's for sure.

We absolutely did talk about it one year ago. We had exactly this conversation, on this very day & then we had the same result as today, v the same team, for exactly the same reason, a week later. It very nearly cost us the league then & probably will now.

[Cocacolajojo1]

You are just playing with words now Ted. We were amazing last fall and last spring. Also the spring before that. And as you say, even if you look at it from your perspective, it only nearly cost us the title. We managed to turn it around and we won. It was great actually.

So, this team has repeatedly shown that it's capable of overcoming slumps in form and learn from mistakes.

[Beefymcfc]

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

We didn't talk about this problem one year ago though. Nor at the end of the end of of the 10-11 season. So there is plenty of evidence that we could but we've had a few problems this season that's for sure.

We absolutely did talk about it one year ago. We had exactly this conversation, on this very day & then we had the same result as today, v the same team, for exactly the same reason, a week later. It very nearly cost us the league then & probably will now.

I think you've answered your own question there mate.

[Mase]

I think we missed Kolarov big time.

[Ted Hughes]

You are just playing with words now Ted. We were amazing last fall and last spring. Also the spring before that. And as you say, even if you look at it from your perspective, it only nearly cost us the title. We managed to turn it around and we won. It was great actually.

So, this team has repeatedly shown that it's capable of overcoming slumps in form and learn from mistakes.

I'm asking a legitimate question, not playing with words ffs. You are the one who made the comparison to last year, not me, I just corrected you. I made the point that we have had this problem & some time & I am questioning whether we have improved.

[Ted Hughes]

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

We didn't talk about this problem one year ago though. Nor at the end of the end of of the 10-11 season. So there is plenty of evidence that we could but we've had a few problems this season that's for sure.

We absolutely did talk about it one year ago. We had exactly this conversation, on this very day & then we had the same result as today, v the same team, for exactly the same reason, a week later. It very nearly cost us the league then & probably will now.

I think you've answered your own question there mate.

Nope.

Last season we had a points cushion to fall back on when we went to shit. This season they have it instead, so I think we're fucked unless they get injuries.

But what about the questions I did ask ? Have we improved that much in two years, in these kind of games in spite of the players we have signed ? Does evidence suggest we are going to ?

These are not stupid, knee jerk questions, they are completely reasonable and worthy of debate.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

Anyone know why our players don't seem to want to shoot from outside the box? FFPR or something?

[Mase]

Anyone know why our players don't seem to want to shoot from outside the box? FFPR or something?

Kolarov does. He'll shoot from the edge of his own penalty area.

[Beefymcfc]

Front men are struggling but how many chances did they miss ? Did we create that many ? Were we not talking about these exact same problems 2 years ago ? Have we not signed plenty of players since then ? Have we improved that much in these situations ? Is there evidence to suggest we will ?

We didn't talk about this problem one year ago though. Nor at the end of the end of of the 10-11 season. So there is plenty of evidence that we could but we've had a few problems this season that's for sure.

We absolutely did talk about it one year ago. We had exactly this conversation, on this very day & then we had the same result as today, v the same team, for exactly the same reason, a week later. It very nearly cost us the league then & probably will now.

I think you've answered your own question there mate.

Nope.

Last season we had a points cushion to fall back on when we went to shit. This season they have it instead, so I think we're fucked unless they get injuries.

But what about the questions I did ask ? Have we improved that much in two years, in these kind of games in spite of the players we have signed ? Does evidence suggest we are going to ?

These are not stupid, knee jerk questions, they are completely reasonable and worthy of debate.

You answered your own question regarding the 2 years as we went onto win the PL last year. Don't give me this performance thing because every needs must and we play to win a game. We've not improved this season on last due to a number of factors. No fresh quality talent for one. You have been the one proclaiming that Mancini wanted the likes of Hazard, RVP, De Rossi etc who would have clearly enhanced and invigorated the 1st team, never mind the squad. Secondly, injuries to key players and subsequent form have also had a dramatic affect. The loss of Sergio early on, a key player last season, combined with Silva's form/injury ahve really affected the season so far.

If you want to put it solely down to the manager mate, that's your will. If you want Pep or the special one, that's your will also. Personally I like to take a step back and look at the whole rather than the individual parts, seeing where I feel we could improve. The key for me is getting the strikers back in form whilst giving the manager some tools to freshen up our play, not by giving him players for the future.

[Ted Hughes]

Nobody is even attempting to take in what I'm talking about, just putting words in my mouth and answering their own questions.

I'm talking about games like today when teams park the bus. Two years ago, we struggled in these kind of games & dropped points. We spent fucking fortunes on goalscorers etc.

Has it worked ? Are we better now at this kind of game ?

Forget all the other shite, that's not what I'm asking.

Have we improved, with all the money spent, in these kind of games & is there evidence to suggest we are going to ?

[ayrshireblue]

Nobody is even attempting to take in what I'm talking about, just putting words in my mouth and answering their own questions.

I'm talking about games like today when teams park the bus. Two years ago, we struggled in these kind of games & dropped points. We spent fucking fortunes on goalscorers etc.

Has it worked ? Are we better now at this kind of game ?

Forget all the other shite, that's not what I'm asking.

Have we improved, with all the money spent, in these kind of games & is there evidence to suggest we are going to ?

No. We bought a mid table winger to provide space for us and let go a mid table winger who came back and bit our arse. Don't understand why when we are struggling against teams like this Mancini doesn't play Sinclair more often. Pace is what panics teams. Instead we slow the play right down and let the opposition get back in their positions. Two of the worst offenders are Yaya and Silva. Miss a man out and play a bit more direct when required.

[feedthegreek]

weve not improved since last season imo, too much pissing about sideways and backwards passing and hardly any shooting, reading nearly sussed us last week sunderland did today. no width and no crosses ,scum are experts at width and crossing, its won them countless titles, weve bought in sub standard during the summer, bar nastasic.been on the off website mancini is blaming the ref for not giving us a free kick before their goal, we could still be playing now and would,nt have scored.

[Goaters 103]

Ive watched that exact same game at Sunderland away 3 years in a row, with City now having played 4 and a half hours there, having had the ball for about 4 hours 15 mins of it, but still havent bloody scored. We wouldnt have scored if we were still there now out on the field on our own.

Mancini proved today we had learned nothing from our previous trips there. We were far too slow getting the ball forward, and again had no width and it was far too congested, trying to pass the ball into the bloody net through the middle and a packed defense.

The substitutions, particularly lobbing Lescott up top, were bizarre. Mancini is signing his own exit pass and a 7 point gap to the top already looks like a chasm the way we are playing. He has to win the Prem or at the very least the FA Cup to keep his job. This does not look like happening. Not improving the squad in the summer is coming home to roost - we basically have stood still, and it shows.

[Ted Hughes]

weve not improved since last season imo, too much pissing about sideways and backwards passing and hardly any shooting, reading nearly sussed us last week sunderland did today. no width and no crosses ,scum are experts at width and crossing, its won them countless titles, weve bought in sub standard during the summer, bar nastasic.been on the off website mancini is blaming the ref for not giving us a free kick before their goal, we could still be playing now and would,nt have scored.

Blaming the ref is embarrassing. It should have been a free kick but that doesn't mean a totally half arsed speculative effort should beat England's No1 keeper, or that we can't break down a defence that didn't even play that well.

When we beat the rags at our place under Sven, we defended 10 times better than that & had to be that good to survive. Sunderland only needed to be average. That is the problem.

[feedthegreek]

weve not improved since last season imo, too much pissing about sideways and backwards passing and hardly any shooting, reading nearly sussed us last week sunderland did today. no width and no crosses ,scum are experts at width and crossing, its won them countless titles, weve bought in sub standard during the summer, bar nastasic.been on the off website mancini is blaming the ref for not giving us a free kick before their goal, we could still be playing now and would,nt have scored.

Blaming the ref is embarrassing. It should have been a free kick but that doesn't mean a totally half arsed speculative effort should beat England's No1 keeper, or that we can't break down a defence that didn't even play that well.

When we beat the rags at our place under Sven, we defended 10 times better than that & had to be that good to survive. Sunderland only needed to be average. That is the problem.

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