The pull back from the byline

[Spurge]

It's one of the simplest things to do in football, one of the hardest to defend against (attackers running onto the ball, defenders having to turn to find it), and one of the most exciting to watch. Which of these is the reason City don't do it?

Possibly because when there are 10 defenders in the area, most stood in the 6yd box, it becomes a lottery.
Put it behind the defenders and most on here will consider it too close to the keeper to be effective. Put it further away from the line and the accusation of feeding the defenders springs to mind.

Wanna buy a raffle ticket?

And yet Ferguson has managed to win 12 Premier League titles & 2 Champions Leagues, mainly by getting his players to do exactly that.

I guess he must just buy lots of tickets ? Perhaps it's time we bought a few as, if you don't buy a ticket, you don't win the raffle.



Never, in all the football I have watched, has that applied more to team more than City, both with crossing & shooting. (apart of course from Arsenal & we have seen what has happened to them )

.
You saved me the hassle of posting the same.

Develop forward play with pace and tempo then it's not so much of a lottery wehn you cut the ball back as players defeners and defensive midfielders are struggling to keep up with play and take up good defensive positions.

By contrast if you build up a passage of play with no tempo or urgency no reason why the opposition can't take up good defensive positions to deal with the cut back when it eventually comes in.

[Beefymcfc]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

[sheblue]

A bit more pace getting the ball forward including towards the byline rather than always trying to dance the ball into the goal.

[Spurge]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

good post - we dont have players with out and out pace other than sinclair. Our strenth still lies with unlocking defences on the edge of the oppos box with intracate short passes and good movement but currently those passes are not quite right - either too sharp or too sloppy.

We'll get it right soon enough I'm sure - tomorrow would be nice!

[Ted Hughes]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

Imo though it isn't genius what his Baconship has done, it's competence.

Mancini is absolutely on another planet when it comes to most aspects of football but that is partly why it doesn't work sometimes. Where he lacks in comparison, imo, is in man management & simplicity. Bob looks for genius from his players & himself, Bacon looks for stuff any decent player can do, repeats it & throws a couple of smartarses into the equation. When the smartarses struggle, the routine is enough to still get the results on the whole.

When it comes up in a one off game against true genius playing to its ability, eg Barca in a final or us in a cup semi or at the swamp last season, or even a team with a bit of inspiration, he's got problems. If you get it wrong or are a bit scared or off the boil though, like us this season, his tried & tested routine will usually come out on top.

The best system is a combination of the two philosophies, which I think Bridges & I have been saying for a long time.

We are capable of leaving them behind if we get it right, but look at Arsenal, Chelsea etc, none of them have learned this, they just do exactly what we have done so far this season & a team that was outclassing the rags, suddenly comes second to them.

The idea we should not take this on, analyse it, & learn fom it is taking hatred a step too far.

[Beefymcfc]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

Imo though it isn't genius what his Baconship has done, it's competence.

Mancini is absolutely on another planet when it comes to most aspects of football but that is partly why it doesn't work sometimes. Where he lacks in comparison, imo, is in man management & simplicity. Bob looks for genius from his players & himself, Bacon looks for stuff any decent player can do, repeats it & throws a couple of smartarses into the equation. When the smartarses struggle, the routine is enough to still get the results on the whole.

When it comes up in a one off game against true genius playing to its ability, eg Barca in a final or us in a cup semi or at the swamp last season, or even a team with a bit of inspiration, he's got problems. If you get it wrong or are a bit scared or off the boil though, like us this season, his tried & tested routine will usually come out on top.

The best system is a combination of the two philosophies, which I think Bridges & I have been saying for a long time.

We are capable of leaving them behind if we get it right, but look at Arsenal, Chelsea etc, none of them have learned this, they just do exactly what we have done so far this season & a team that was outclassing the rags, suddenly comes second to them.

The idea we should not take this on, analyse it, & learn fom it is taking hatred a step too far.

I stopped reading right there Ted. Every thread now is being polluted by the 'Mancini Out' mantra and skimming through the rest you go on to say that you and Bridge are now better managers than Mancini?

You started again with the Taggart analogy. Why?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first trophy in his first full season?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first Premier League, and Community Shield, in his second full season?

Has Mancini had enough time to evolve our play to a level that Taggart has?

He's been at it now for 3 years, not 26 and whoever is in charge should be allowed the option of at least bringing in players to enhance the first team, never mind better it.

I'll say no more on the subject now because it's tedious, especially when the likes of Taggart are brought into the argument.

I just don't want to read that City fans are kicking our PL title in the nuts by saying we won it by default because United choked. Now, that really winds me up.

[Spurge]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

Imo though it isn't genius what his Baconship has done, it's competence.

Mancini is absolutely on another planet when it comes to most aspects of football but that is partly why it doesn't work sometimes. Where he lacks in comparison, imo, is in man management & simplicity. Bob looks for genius from his players & himself, Bacon looks for stuff any decent player can do, repeats it & throws a couple of smartarses into the equation. When the smartarses struggle, the routine is enough to still get the results on the whole.

When it comes up in a one off game against true genius playing to its ability, eg Barca in a final or us in a cup semi or at the swamp last season, or even a team with a bit of inspiration, he's got problems. If you get it wrong or are a bit scared or off the boil though, like us this season, his tried & tested routine will usually come out on top.

The best system is a combination of the two philosophies, which I think Bridges & I have been saying for a long time.

We are capable of leaving them behind if we get it right, but look at Arsenal, Chelsea etc, none of them have learned this, they just do exactly what we have done so far this season & a team that was outclassing the rags, suddenly comes second to them.

The idea we should not take this on, analyse it, & learn fom it is taking hatred a step too far.

[highlight]I stopped reading right there Ted[/highlight]. Every thread now is being polluted by the 'Mancini Out' mantra and skimming through the rest you go on to say that you and Bridge are now better managers than Mancini?

You started again with the Taggart analogy. Why?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first trophy in his first full season?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first Premier League, and Community Shield, in his second full season?

Has Mancini had enough time to evolve our play to a level that Taggart has?

He's been at it now for 3 years, not 26 and whoever is in charge should be allowed the option of at least bringing in players to enhance the first team, never mind better it.

I'll say no more on the subject now because it's tedious, especially when the likes of Taggart are brought into the argument.

I just don't want to read that City fans are kicking our PL title in the nuts by saying we won it by default because United choked. Now, that really winds me up.

So did I - another good post Beefy

[Blue Since 76]

City are creating good chances and fluffing some of them at the moment, it will come good.

I'm not sure we are. Only saw bits of the Sunderland game, but at home vs rags and Reading there were very few chances where you felt the forward should have done better and even fewer where the keeper pulled off a save you wouldn't expect a pro to.

Why we're not creating the chances is probably a combination of lack of decent movement from the forwards and poor/slow build up play by the rest of the team.

[Ted Hughes]

I've just done a post regarding the above. It must've been that bad that it gave me a 404 server error and fucked me off.

The gist was that how can we compare us to Taggarts 12 PL titles and 2 CL trophies with relation to squad selection? Taggart has had years to perfect it and took an age to claim his first trophy. We are only 4 years in and are still developing. We missed out in the summer so we haven't got the likes of Valencia, Nani, Young et al to attack from wide so we have to play from our strengths.

I'll go back to my current thinking. If we take even 20% more of the chances we're getting, they'll be no complaints.

Imo though it isn't genius what his Baconship has done, it's competence.

Mancini is absolutely on another planet when it comes to most aspects of football but that is partly why it doesn't work sometimes. Where he lacks in comparison, imo, is in man management & simplicity. Bob looks for genius from his players & himself, Bacon looks for stuff any decent player can do, repeats it & throws a couple of smartarses into the equation. When the smartarses struggle, the routine is enough to still get the results on the whole.

When it comes up in a one off game against true genius playing to its ability, eg Barca in a final or us in a cup semi or at the swamp last season, or even a team with a bit of inspiration, he's got problems. If you get it wrong or are a bit scared or off the boil though, like us this season, his tried & tested routine will usually come out on top.

The best system is a combination of the two philosophies, which I think Bridges & I have been saying for a long time.

We are capable of leaving them behind if we get it right, but look at Arsenal, Chelsea etc, none of them have learned this, they just do exactly what we have done so far this season & a team that was outclassing the rags, suddenly comes second to them.

The idea we should not take this on, analyse it, & learn fom it is taking hatred a step too far.

[highlight]I stopped reading right there Ted[/highlight]. Every thread now is being polluted by the 'Mancini Out' mantra and skimming through the rest you go on to say that you and Bridge are now better managers than Mancini?

You started again with the Taggart analogy. Why?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first trophy in his first full season?

Did Taggart win Uniteds first Premier League, and Community Shield, in his second full season?

Has Mancini had enough time to evolve our play to a level that Taggart has?

He's been at it now for 3 years, not 26 and whoever is in charge should be allowed the option of at least bringing in players to enhance the first team, never mind better it.

I'll say no more on the subject now because it's tedious, especially when the likes of Taggart are brought into the argument.

I just don't want to read that City fans are kicking our PL title in the nuts by saying we won it by default because United choked. Now, that really winds me up.

So did I - another good post Beefy

I think I've made perfectly reasonable & truthful criticisms which Mancini himself is echoing. We differ in possible solutions.

Most of the other stuff, I haven't said any of it, & you have just made it up. I would enjoy discussing tactics & football but if you don't want to, that's your choice.

If Bob solves the particular stuff I'm talking about, I will compliment him on it & continue to recommend we keep him. If he doesn't, I'll continue to mention it every time it starts to cost us & eventually, I will give in to the nagging thought that he's never going to fix it & recommend we fire him.

He's had more than enough time & money to have done much better with it but it's not a sackable offence yet. If our level of performance all round doesn't improve on average, I will want him to go at the end of the season though. A bit of a dip is understandable, but most of the time we're not very good.

Incidentally, if Mancini comes out & makes the same comments about our play as I have made, does that suddenly mean I'm no longer some kind of rag loving traitor ?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Spurge and sheblue are on the button. Its not complicated. Move quickly when the opportunity arises and stop waiting for teams to set themselves, to then resume the cat and mouse game. Its so simple.

[john68]

Spurge and sheblue are on the button. Its not complicated. Move quickly when the opportunity arises and stop waiting for teams to set themselves, to then resume the cat and mouse game. Its so simple.

Question Piccs, What happens if the defending team have already set themselves up?
Not complicated, a bit like trying to get on a train after it's already left the station?

I have to admit to having a little chuckle to myself, so please play along.

What are the other team doing, whilst city are running like fuck towards their area?
Does your plan; to run like fuck up the field, even bother to consider that there is another team on the pitch at the same time?

Jus askin...:-)

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

As I've said in t'other thread it seems to be a quite deliberate plan to advance more cautiously and then to set ourselves. More passes than necessary, no great urgency or speed, no electric bursts of pace on the ball, no sweeping passes to release the forwads quickly. Those opportunities did exist at Sunderland and against Reading, and to say otherwise is not true. As discussed at length, this methodical approach, whilst encouraging ball retention, allows the defending team to go back to their hedgehog/rabbit formation. After three years it cannot be argued that this isn't Bob's team, performing to his blueprint. Pace and width. Simple.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

As I've said in t'other thread it seems to be a quite deliberate plan to advance more cautiously and then to set ourselves. More passes than necessary, no great urgency or speed, no electric bursts of pace on the ball, no sweeping passes to release the forwads quickly. Those opportunities did exist at Sunderland and against Reading, and to say otherwise is not true. As discussed at length, this methodical approach, whilst encouraging ball retention, allows the defending team to go back to their hedgehog/rabbit formation. After three years it cannot be argued that this isn't Bob's team, performing to his blueprint. Pace and width. Simple.

You rag loving dick.( just trying to fit in)
But I agree with you. It's our fault why we always come up against packed defences when attacking, We simply don't move theball quick enough or with enough purpose and that allows the other team to regain their shape.
I was watching highlights of the 6-1 v Norwich last season and in that game when we attacked, we attacked with real pace, urgency and purpose and look what happened.

[Blue Since 76]

Question Piccs, What happens if the defending team have already set themselves up?
Not complicated, a bit like trying to get on a train after it's already left the station?

I have to admit to having a little chuckle to myself, so please play along.

What are the other team doing, whilst city are running like fuck towards their area?
Does your plan; to run like fuck up the field, even bother to consider that there is another team on the pitch at the same time?

Jus askin...:-)

You keep bringing up that there's another team on the pitch that doesn't want to come out and play - that bit is obvious. What's not is how to beat them. As I said earlier, do we therefore just accept 38 draws as no one wants to play football, or is there perhaps an alternative way we could play which would counter teams who don't want to come out of their own area?

These next two games will show whether Bob knows the answer to the above, as Norwich are decent defensively and Stoke have been brilliant at shutting teams out. So another performance like Reading or Sunderland and we'll be worrying about hanging onto 2nd place, never mind winning it. Unfortunately, I'm not sure Bob has an answer, at least not in the squad he's put together. And if he hasn't, I'm not sure he'll be given the money to put it right.

[sheblue]

Less waltzing and more running.

[Green & Blue]

As far as i can see the only player we have that i think is any good at getting forward and doing this effectively is Micah Ricahards.He makes some great forward runs and we are really missing that with his injury problems this season.Zabba seems to have brought this element into his game but not nearly to the same effect as Micah.

The most worrying thing is that not one of our midfield players have this in their locker and we tend to play everything through the middle, some of them obviously could do it but for whatever reason there seems to be a major reluctance to try and play this way.
Is this Mancinis fault? Quite possibly it is but who am i to know.

I'm by no means upset that Johnson is no longer at the club but he had the ability to do it and being honest we miss that.We either need to get someone in who can bring this aspect of play in to our game or at least give Sinclair an opportunity to show what he can do.

[Ted Hughes]

There can only be three possible situations here.

1 Sunderland were fantastic defensively & no side could have broken them down.

2 We were desperately unlucky not to break them down.

3 We weren't good enough to break them down.

If the answer is one or two, then some of us are being over critical, as other teams at City's level, ie Champions, would have struggled.

If the answer is 3, can anyone who is slagging the points raised on here, explain what they think we should do to fix it, only their answer seems to be: fuck all.