Better quality players v better organised team.

[Ted Hughes]

That's what we saw today.

A team playing to its strengths, with a plan of how to counteract City & win the game, v a bunch of geezers running around trying to get their best players involved.

I lost count of the number of times Liverpool got the ball, played a straight pass to the halfway line, where a player drew out Garcia or whoever, then just tipped the ball around the corner, leaving a group of Liverpool players running full tilt unopposed at our defenders.

Two words: Borussia Dortmund. Mid table but well drilled German team & well drilled but inferior English team. Same problem.

We already know Suarez is a tricky fucker 1v1, we know both him & Sturridge are quicker than Lescott & Nasti, but did we leave a player to stop the simple ball; did we fuck, we had players charging out, gambiling on nicking the ball & if they missed it ? Half a pitch full of scousers charging toward our defence.

This is NOT a Mancini out, thread, this is an honest opinion, that he got bitched tactically by Rodgers.

The cheerleaders may just play the 'oh we won the league' & 'oh you just want Mancini sacked' card again, but personally, I fucking don't, I want to evaluate his actual performances & praise or criticise as is fair.

Today, he got his arse kicked & the sheer ability of Aguero minimised the damage.

Anyone actually care to talk football rather than just cheerleading or hating ?

Personally, I'd be interested in an actual football discussion, pros cons & tactics, rather that the usual cheerleading 'we won the league' or kneejerk 'sack him' bollox we usually get.

Hows about evaluating Mancini & the team honestly ?

I'll have a look tomorrow to see if anyone is interested.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

You asked in another thread why I thought Mancini was going to bottlie it today. I hope you can understand his utter fucking cravenness after what happened today.

[getdressedmctavish]

Well I was bitterly disappointed with his attitude on Tuesday. And yes I keep seeimg teams with game plans but rarely any thought from us other than play like we always do. However, though Liver[pool totally bossed the game today I think a weak ref let them crock Silva and from then on we were nowhere. Even then. if Maicon had picked out Dzeko at the death we might have won.Thoroughly enjoyed the game. The rags at this point deserve the title for their play to win attitude.Be interesting to see what happens when Ya Ya comes back.There may be a twist yet.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Not bringing on Tevez was awful.

Bringing on an injured old fullback was diabolical.

Giving Nasri 1 and a half plus stoppage time took the cake.

Bad day at the office from our man bobby.

[Im_Spartacus]

Not bringing on Tevez was awful.

Bringing on an injured old fullback was diabolical.

Giving Nasri 1 and a half plus stoppage time took the cake.

Bad day at the office from our man bobby.

I thought the Maicon sub was actually a decent call in terms of the way the game was going. Bring on a winger cum defender and switch Milner into the middle to plug the gap that Silva was leaving all game. Meant we kept the width, but moved an excellent exponent of breaking up the game into a more effective position.

I said before the game that bossing the midfield and preventing supply to the forwards was the one and only way to beat these into submission, but we surrendered the midfield all too easily and it took Mancini far too long to rectify it.

I think someone has already said what the issue is.........we don't appear to have a tactical plan for each game, we play like we always do and hope its enough. Its seen us dumped out of the CL, and is seeing us fall further and further behind in the premier league. It may seem crass, but Mancini tactically is not much better than Hughes was, he just has better players.

If our people higher up know their football, these things wont be going unnoticed

[SmallTimeCharlie]

And yet, both of their goals were long-range shots, whereas our first was a superb team goal, a pass and move and one-touch thing of brilliance. Not in either camp, I just want us to win every game and every competition.

[Hazy2]

we are game to game with Bobby, No plan and lack of coaching the best out of them. putting Tevez in the hole between Carragher and Gerrard was a no brainer for me. Same as the rags old players getting time and space. That said we should have known they would break on us, Milner has the energy to run Gerrard around, out wide why. Aguero came to life 20 mins from the end and could hvae won it just wonder what is wrong with him for the 70 before Edin is a passenger and for me contributes so little the Tevez thing was a joke, Taking Silva off, did not get it at the time,Nasri might as well after QPR do one.He is happy picking up the dough and being booed by oppos fans.

[Cocacolajojo1]

That's what we saw today.

A team playing to its strengths, with a plan of how to counteract City & win the game, v a bunch of geezers running around trying to get their best players involved.

I lost count of the number of times Liverpool got the ball, played a straight pass to the halfway line, where a player drew out Garcia or whoever, then just tipped the ball around the corner, leaving a group of Liverpool players running full tilt unopposed at our defenders.

Two words: Borussia Dortmund. Mid table but well drilled German team & well drilled but inferior English team. Same problem.

We already know Suarez is a tricky fucker 1v1, we know both him & Sturridge are quicker than Lescott & Nasti, but did we leave a player to stop the simple ball; did we fuck, we had players charging out, gambiling on nicking the ball & if they missed it ? Half a pitch full of scousers charging toward our defence.

This is NOT a Mancini out, thread, this is an honest opinion, that he got bitched tactically by Rodgers.

The cheerleaders may just play the 'oh we won the league' & 'oh you just want Mancini sacked' card again, but personally, I fucking don't, I want to evaluate his actual performances & praise or criticise as is fair.

Today, he got his arse kicked & the sheer ability of Aguero minimised the damage.

Anyone actually care to talk football rather than just cheerleading or hating ?

Personally, I'd be interested in an actual football discussion, pros cons & tactics, rather that the usual cheerleading 'we won the league' or kneejerk 'sack him' bollox we usually get.

Hows about evaluating Mancini & the team honestly ?

I'll have a look tomorrow to see if anyone is interested.

Dortmund clinched the second position in the Bundesliga yesterday, having beaten their main competitor Bayer Leverkusen 2-3. I'm not sure if you were joking though.

But your point is a very valid one. Extremely valid I might add. As it was, I was watching our game with my friend who was watching the Dortmund game on another screen. And he became very criticall of Mancini after half time, when he had the time to repair what was obviously broken during the first half but neglected to do so and then after a while made the changes that was necessary. One reason why he likes Klopp is because he often reads the game well and isn't afraid to admit mistakes. Mancini yesterday... I think was lacking in that department until the Kolarov Nastacic substitution.

I left yesterdays game feeling a bit disappointed (on top of the general feeling of disappointment), in that it seemed we very much lacked any type of purpose. Liverpool were playing very much so with a purpose and they always had a plan for what they were supposed to do when they got the ball. We on the other hand made countless silly mistakes, which is a very bad sign of disorganisation. The worst one must have been Zaba's back pass to Hart. Zaba doesn't do these silly back passes, yet he did it yesterday and he made several other mistakes as well. That's not his thing nowadays, yet he and many of his team mates were recurrent culprits of silly mistakes. It reeks of disorganisation and purposelessness.

I don't like it when people say we one the league last year despite Mancini, as he's only a negative influence on the team. But yesterday, he failed to provide his team with some sort of... purpose after the initial exchange between the teams. At 1-1, it became pretty clear Liverpool had sussed us. Yesterday, Mancini was in many ways saved by the quality of his players and a wondergoal from Aguero. On the other hand, he was pretty much let down by his strikers against QPR.

But yeah, the games against Dortmund and yesterday's game had many similarities. Two teams with purpose and one team without.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Also, like against dortmund, the communication between midfield and defense yet again broke down. Against Dortmund at home it allowed them to move around our back line and throw in crosses. Against Liverpool it gave Gerrard and Sturridge three chances to pop away good long distance shots.

[Im_Spartacus]

. Aguero came to life 20 mins from the end and could hvae won it just wonder what is wrong with him for the 70 before

I suspect that Sergio knew somebody would have to pull something out of the hat, as it wasn't going to come from team play

He has never been as greedy as he was in the 2nd half last night, and we have never seen those types of runs from him on the ball, which tells me he is specifically prevented from doing them by Mancini, as he clearly has every bit the same ability as Suarez in that department.

Why the fuck would a manager want to stifle that?

If that is the case, I wonder if we have seen another sea change whereby the players decide they have to do it despite Mancini's bland instructions - and could yesterday in that respect be our 'arsenal' moment like last year, where after that we saw, in particular yaya and tevez just use their natural ability to week havoc if the plan hadnt worked in the first half?

I fucking hope so

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I saw one team with a lot more hunger than the other.

When they scored their second we were winning the tactical battle imo.

[Hazy2]

The combo of Hart punching the ball and 10 back for a corner is not working, Why would Silva and Sergio be needed. simple maths put two up and they keep 3 back the Gerrard goal was on all game. The time the midfield had on the ball for the dippers allowed the runs of Greedy bollocks and chesting cunt.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

The combo of Hart punching the ball and 10 back for a corner is not working, Why would Silva and Sergio be needed. simple maths put two up and they keep 3 back the Gerrard goal was on all game. The time the midfield had on the ball for the dippers allowed the runs of Greedy bollocks and chesting cunt.

I was surprised yesterday when I saw us bringing all the players back for a corner when it does seem more logical for our smaller attacking players to stay up and force 4 or 5 defenders to stay back and mark them.That's what happens in training!

[City64]

Liverpool looked liked they man marked David Silva yesterday , the little fella had his worst and least effective game for a long long time , he was a passenger.

[tikatakamcfc]

Hart was OK for me, not his fault for the goal.
When you look at it, the only mistake we made was Garcia not clearing the ball and entire defence shouldnt pay attention to Dzeko lying on the ground, he is not defender anayway.

Other than that, I think we defended quite well, those Gerard goals is something you have to put your hat down and congratulate.

Milner was excellent going forward, Kolarov brought nothing new, neither did Nasri as much as I saw it.
David Silva is one-dimensional, he only sees Aguero and one time particularly Dzeko yelled at him for not passing it to him but Aguero, and the pass was intercepted. Was a good opportunity. Thats what I resent to Silva. But he played OK overall.

Aguero and Edin were not used enough and I dont think its much of their fault. Yes, some of the challenges they made could've been more determined and stronger, but I dont remember any missed chances...

[Ted Hughes]

Imo, we have better players than Napoli, Utd, Dortmund, Arsenal, Liverpool but against each of those teams we have been tactically outdone on our own ground & had to scramble desperately for a result. The fact that 4 of those occasions are from this season & we also struggled v Everton & at times v Swansea as well as having some nightmate situations v Southampton which we put down to being rusty.

A common situation in these games is to find our midfield the wrong side of the ball with no chance of getting back & the oppo running at our average paced defenders with quick players. It's not always how the goals have come, but it sets the tone for the game being one of us in a disorganised state & the oppo playing with a strong plan. The goals usually happen due to lapses in concentration caused by us being on tenterhooks rather than our calm collected selves like for instance the rags' game from last season, where Ferguson was tactucally inept & Mancini took him apart . That has been missing this season as teams have changed.

This season Ferguson, Wenger, Moyes, Klopp, Rogers have all had a look at us & sussed out how they can cause us big problems. Now these teams couldn't do it to us if they played us every week, but they don't have to; they just have to raise their game on the day & mug us. We have to respond.

We have to improve or the rest of the Premier League will start to get at us. They know how to do it already, they just haven't mastered it yet. This is why the Premier League is so good; they work you out.

Lack of pace & energy is a big factor here imo (as well as Bob's part tactically) & it's time we addressed it. Yaya isn't the answer to that defensively, he doesn't run back, he runs forward. Barry & Garcia lack pace; one of the two should be fast at least not two slow players together.

And before some cunt mentions the transfer market: Javi Martinez is even slower & less athletic & would have ended up gasping for fucking air v Liverpool without quick, agile players around him.

I would assume Mancini knows all this, he's not daft, but has tried to work on some other plan.

Well I recon he tears up that plan & starts to develop a new one, having learned from experience. It has reached its limit.

There is no shame in learning from your own, & your team's mistakes, so long as you do learn. That is the reason a manager staying at a club is a good thing; he learns. Ferguson had to do the same. Mourinho left instead.

It's time for Bob & the team to adapt imo. The same routine with the same blend of players next season will lead to worse results, dumped out of Europe again & the sack.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

I thought the Maicon sub was actually a decent call in terms of the way the game was going. Bring on a winger cum defender and switch Milner into the middle to plug the gap that Silva was leaving all game. Meant we kept the width, but moved an excellent exponent of breaking up the game into a more effective position.

I said before the game that bossing the midfield and preventing supply to the forwards was the one and only way to beat these into submission, but we surrendered the midfield all too easily and it took Mancini far too long to rectify it.

I'd agree had he not just out Milner out there 10 mins prior. He was just confusing them at that stage.

[Ted Hughes]

I thought the Maicon sub was actually a decent call in terms of the way the game was going. Bring on a winger cum defender and switch Milner into the middle to plug the gap that Silva was leaving all game. Meant we kept the width, but moved an excellent exponent of breaking up the game into a more effective position.

I said before the game that bossing the midfield and preventing supply to the forwards was the one and only way to beat these into submission, but we surrendered the midfield all too easily and it took Mancini far too long to rectify it.

I'd agree had he not just out Milner out there 10 mins prior. He was just confusing them at that stage.

Maicon did ok imo & we were a mess anyway by then. Nasri though. Fuck off.

Just seen the MOTD highlights & even those few highlights confirmed my impression of the game. In the first part of the first half Liverpool had four forwards running at Lescott, Nasti & Zabba on the edge of our penalty area. Several other times it was attack v defence with the mids only arriving after the ball had gone.

Late in the game, an obviously knackered Barry is the only player anywhere near Gerrard.

I mentioned all this before the game, as did others.

[City64]

Liverpool are still way short of being a top 4 team imho . I had a good look at them at the Etihad yesterday , they rarely threatened us although there workrate was very good .Why oh why dont these teams put in as much effort versus the rags at the swamp is the big question ? The much hyped Suarez had a shocker , Reina in goal looks a liability , Downing is way short of top class , Carragher way past his best etc etc but they are very organised and in Gerrard they still have a top top class quality player who can win games on his own. They are a better outfit than last season and are moving in the right direction.

Somehow we never look the same when kompany isnt playing , his leadership and pressence was badly missed yesterday imho.

[Ted Hughes]

Liverpool are still way short of being a top 4 team imho . I had a good look at them at the Etihad yesterday , they rarely threatened us although there workrate was very good .Why oh why dont these teams put in as much effort versus the rags at the swamp is the big question ? The much hyped Suarez had a shocker , Reina in goal looks a liability , Downing is way short of top class , Carragher way past his best etc etc but they are very organised and in Gerrard they still have a top top class quality player who can win games on his own. They are a better outfit than last season and are moving in the right direction.

Somehow we never look the same when kompany isnt playing , his leadership and pressence was badly missed yesterday imho.

Imo we looked exactly the same v Arsenal, Dortmund, rags, Swansea even Southampton when they ran at us (& DeJong was on the pitch then). Napoli, Bayern last season. Dynamo Kiev etc etc.

Long term problem.