Anyone got Moureens number?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

League title would indicate that he has some sort of idea how to break down "inferior" teams. As would our number two spot in league table.

Can't make any excuses for his form in Europe though.

It seems that you and Piccs are sidestepping the main discussion though. While both of you are screaming for Mancini's head, does either of you have any sensible replacement options? Someone who is guaranteed to do better.

As piccs has said, nobody is guaranteed to do better. But there are many many managers out there who I feel could do far better with this squad of players. i said jokingly the other day Warnock, but whilst that would be my worst nightmare, in reality he would motivate the players a bloody site better than bobby seems to do, and he would also not overcomplicate the tactics which I think we are also guilty of.

Many managers have been sacked for less, and whilst I disagree with things like the sacking of Di Matteo who really did deserve a chance, Mancini has built his team, he has had it developed over 3.5 years, yet here we are, bottom of the champions league group, out of the league cup in the first round, and out of the title race by February to a team who are, player for player, no better than us.

My main issue is his seeming inability to actually manage rather than just perennially wanting to throw money at the problem. I dont doubt his methods are somewhat effective, but I just look at this group of players and think that we could be doing so much better if someone could get some fire in their belly week in week out.

Above all, whilst this will be the owners' call, remember that Mancini himself said that he would have been sacked had city not won the league last season. Sacked for losing the league on goal difference would have been fucking harsh, even though my view was he totally blew it between December and March and got a lucky escape in the end, but for a club with our squad and aspirations, sacked for being bottom of the champs league group, out of the first round of the league cup, and out of the title race by the second week in February sounds fairly reasonable to me.

And these views are not a product of recent results, its a longstanding view taken from watching his teams from day 1 of his appointment, with the exception of a little blip in autumn 2011 when he produced a spectacular team which withered in front of our eyes as managers worked him out.....and he still hasnt gotten over than setback

I just think we need things shaking up, to reinvigorate some life into these players, and I just dont feel Mancini is the man to do it.

So Neil Warnock then.

I think Mancini should stay and sort this mess out.

The only way i would sack him is IF we finish outside of the top four and if by next winter were still shit i'd then bin him off.

I find this sensible. Put me in this group. That would mean we are regressing rather than having a down season.

[Hazy2]

Mancini is the problem for me having had a fucking solero for a couple of days. Anyone who feels he is at it on it whatever think again.
The wheels are off and let's be honest the shambles that is Chelsea and arsenal has IMHO allowed the blues to sit in a piss poor second.
The performances are shocking the loss at saints has been coming. No progress and for me that is all it is about all this looking back at last year the fa cup win is great but a fans thing the team look lost and knackered. He spoke with Monaco he pissed around with mario and has lost every big game this season Dortmund was a wake up call, he either sorts it or goes for me , to speak with Monaco weeks after the wining off the league tells me he is all ruthless so we have to play the game as a big club should no arsing about.

[Ted Hughes]

League title would indicate that he has some sort of idea how to break down "inferior" teams. As would our number two spot in league table.

Can't make any excuses for his form in Europe though.

It seems that you and Piccs are sidestepping the main discussion though. While both of you are screaming for Mancini's head, does either of you have any sensible replacement options? Someone who is guaranteed to do better.

As piccs has said, nobody is guaranteed to do better. But there are many many managers out there who I feel could do far better with this squad of players. i said jokingly the other day Warnock, but whilst that would be my worst nightmare, in reality he would motivate the players a bloody site better than bobby seems to do, and he would also not overcomplicate the tactics which I think we are also guilty of.

Many managers have been sacked for less, and whilst I disagree with things like the sacking of Di Matteo who really did deserve a chance, Mancini has built his team, he has had it developed over 3.5 years, yet here we are, bottom of the champions league group, out of the league cup in the first round, and out of the title race by February to a team who are, player for player, no better than us.

My main issue is his seeming inability to actually manage rather than just perennially wanting to throw money at the problem. I dont doubt his methods are somewhat effective, but I just look at this group of players and think that we could be doing so much better if someone could get some fire in their belly week in week out.

Above all, whilst this will be the owners' call, remember that Mancini himself said that he would have been sacked had city not won the league last season. Sacked for losing the league on goal difference would have been fucking harsh, even though my view was he totally blew it between December and March and got a lucky escape in the end, but for a club with our squad and aspirations, sacked for being bottom of the champs league group, out of the first round of the league cup, and out of the title race by the second week in February sounds fairly reasonable to me.

And these views are not a product of recent results, its a longstanding view taken from watching his teams from day 1 of his appointment, with the exception of a little blip in autumn 2011 when he produced a spectacular team which withered in front of our eyes as managers worked him out.....and he still hasnt gotten over than setback

I just think we need things shaking up, to reinvigorate some life into these players, and I just dont feel Mancini is the man to do it.

So Neil Warnock then.

I think Mancini should stay and sort this mess out.

The only way i would sack him is IF we finish outside of the top four and if by next winter were still shit i'd then bin him off.

I find this sensible. Put me in this group. That would mean we are regressing rather than having a down season.

By Christmas time next season, it will be obvious to everyone whether Bob has a future or has run his course. Barring a continued meltdown now, he should get that period to try &put us back on track.

BUT, any summer signings should be given full considerations by Txiki & Co that they are high quality players for the club, not just specialists in a particular Mancini plan. No more midfield plodders for a start. If he want's another midfielder come centre back, then that player should be young & an athlete. No Javi Garcia or Javi Martinez or even Garth Barry types.

In fact most signings should be young & quick imo.

[Bianchi on Ice]

In my opinion Mancini has the last games of this season to show he still has a future at City. For the level of investment, to be 12 points behind that lot...when really it should be (and Im not being unreasonable) still nip and tuck is a big let-down. Yes...I remember where weve come from...but we havent risen to the challenges that were specific to this season. All talk of wholesale clearouts is nonsense as well...whoever the manager is...two or three aquisitions with two or three leaving (through contract expiry or otherwise) is all that is required...if people think another 100m will solve it they are wrong...this squad of players either needs fresh ideas from a new manager ora summer of painful reflection. If there is a change it should be close season not next xmas with the club in 6th and in freefall. Players move managers move...and sometimes its best to change when things are still relatively healthy.

[Ted Hughes]

In my opinion Mancini has the last games of this season to show he still has a future at City. For the level of investment, to be 12 points behind that lot...when really it should be (and Im not being unreasonable) still nip and tuck is a big let-down. Yes...I remember where weve come from...but we havent risen to the challenges that were specific to this season. All talk of wholesale clearouts is nonsense as well...whoever the manager is...two or three aquisitions with two or three leaving (through contract expiry or otherwise) is all that is required...if people think another 100m will solve it they are wrong...this squad of players either needs fresh ideas from a new manager ora summer of painful reflection. If there is a change it should be close season not next xmas with the club in 6th and in freefall. Players move managers move...and sometimes its best to change when things are still relatively healthy.

Obviously if the team plays like shit for the rest of the season then Bob will have a problem.

[Blue Since 76]

If Mancini was sacked at Xmas, how would we bring someone in and how would they buy any players worth having?

It has to be summer, whether it's this one or a future one.

He's got 12 league games and whatever in the FA Cup. If there wasn't a major improvement in our performances (not results, performances) then you'd have to wonder why he'd do any better in 15 games next season.

[Ted Hughes]

If Mancini was sacked at Xmas, how would we bring someone in and how would they buy any players worth having?

It has to be summer, whether it's this one or a future one.

He's got 12 league games and whatever in the FA Cup. If there wasn't a major improvement in our performances (not results, performances) then you'd have to wonder why he'd do any better in 15 games next season.

Well next season in theory we have a full transfer team in place, Mario gone, RSC, Kolo etc gone & can offload a few players more thus creating space in the squad for a few quality players to spice things up.

[john68]

Piccs,
I follow the logic of your argument (though disagree) that it is all Mancini's fault and we shouldn't stick with him, you still haven't faced the issue of "What then".
Apart from suggesting that there must be someone out there in the World of football and we should look round. Gettin rid of Mancini may be important to you but if WHEN we offload him and WHO we replace him with is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL.
The demolition bit is the easy bit but until you move your argument on into a constructive phase, it isn't an argument, it is wholly stagnant, it is just a whinge and moan.

[Blue Since 76]

Well next season in theory we have a full transfer team in place, Mario gone, RSC, Kolo etc gone & can offload a few players more thus creating space in the squad for a few quality players to spice things up.

But that still doesn't explain how you can buy top players in January. Generally, it doesn't happen. Those sorts of transfers take months to resolve and with a new man arriving in even early December, I just don't see any meaningful changes to the squad happening in the January.

It would also impact on this summer's spending. If Mancini insists on DDR and Burgervan doesn't think the next manager would want him, what do we do? Don't buy him and you can't then blame Mancini for a poor midfield as he said what it needed. Buy him and then have an unhappy player who's not wanted by the next man 4 months down the line.

If he goes or stays, the decision has to be made in May and that's it for next season.

[Blue Since 76]

Piccs,
I follow the logic of your argument (though disagree) that it is all Mancini's fault and we shouldn't stick with him, you still haven't faced the issue of "What then".
Apart from suggesting that there must be someone out there in the World of football and we should look round. Gettin rid of Mancini may be important to you but if WHEN we offload him and WHO we replace him with is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL.
The demolition bit is the easy bit but until you move your argument on into a constructive phase, it isn't an argument, it is wholly stagnant, it is just a whinge and moan.

John,

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a fan to say a manager or player isn't good enough. There will always be different opinions but generally there will be a consensus and it's usually right when it gets there (I'd say the Mancini in/out debate is really just starting and it's probably only 25% who'd say get rid at the moment).

However, just because an individual fan can't come up with a replacement isn't good enough reason to keep a player or manager who isn't performing. We have scouts and chief executives and all sorts who will be constantly looking for upgrades. I mentioned earlier about Wenger. The majority of fans of Arsenal or anywhere else hasn't heard of him. That didn't mean he shouldn't have been appointed or that the previous manager should have been kept on.

There are lots of managers out there who may or may not do a better job. It's up to the club to determine that. That doesn't mean that fans can't see that the present manager may not be up to the task.

[Tony P]

Now the Pope's free I think Bobby's time is really running out.

[Green & Blue]

I'm really not sure what to think of Mancini at the moment, to be quite honest i can't really think straight on City at present as im just so frustrated with the way things have gone.I am without a doubt an advocate of managerial stability and don't want the club to have a knee jerk reaction to the way we are whimpering out of the title race.

However i am really concerned with both the way the team has performed this season and Mancinis performance as a manager.Obviously the players should burden a large amount of the blame here as very few of the squad have performed anywhere near the same levels they reached last season.Off the top of my head the only players that have are Milner, Zabaleta and Dzeko.So many of our key players have been way off the level of performance we have come to expect from them.

Then again Mancini is the man picking and motivating these players.It's his job to get them to perfrom and it's just not happening.So many of his decisons both tactically and with player selection just come across as nonsensical to me and i gather many on here feel the same way.

[john68]

Blue since 76,
Valid point and I quite agree mate, but when that criticism has gone on for several months, it is repetition and the debate becomes stagnant. We all like a good moan but that's all it remains...a stagnant moan.
At some point the debate has to move on.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Okay John. I asked who would fare better in a job swap Martinez or Mancini? Or how about Laudrup or Mancini? Thay are just examples of managers with an ethos of playing decent football who have done well on limited resources who deserve a chance at a club with a chance. Debate away my fine static friend if you must.
To be honest though the debate between us doesn't really need to move on until such time as he is booted. The question at the moment is whether he is doing well enough. If not it stands to reason that somebody can do better. Should this team be floundering this early in the season? Should a manager of this squad have done better in Europe? Is our Euroballsup costing the club? Does there seem the slightest sign it will get resolved? These are the questions that need asking not the childlike "but who can we get?" We can have nearly anyone we want ffs

[Ted Hughes]

Well next season in theory we have a full transfer team in place, Mario gone, RSC, Kolo etc gone & can offload a few players more thus creating space in the squad for a few quality players to spice things up.

But that still doesn't explain how you can buy top players in January. Generally, it doesn't happen. Those sorts of transfers take months to resolve and with a new man arriving in even early December, I just don't see any meaningful changes to the squad happening in the January.

It would also impact on this summer's spending. If Mancini insists on DDR and Burgervan doesn't think the next manager would want him, what do we do? Don't buy him and you can't then blame Mancini for a poor midfield as he said what it needed. Buy him and then have an unhappy player who's not wanted by the next man 4 months down the line.

If he goes or stays, the decision has to be made in May and that's it for next season.

Tell Mancini that we are not in the market for players like DeRossi & to plan accordingly.

If he can't work with that, fire him & find someone who can.

It may be that they will allow him one golden oldie so long as the rest are better value & have a future resale. One such player isn't such a problem provided some leave to make way. If Barry or Garcia went for instance, DeRossi (if fit) is a fair replacement. Having Garcia, DeRossi & Barry would imo be a joke.

[john68]

Piccs,
There is no ongoing debate nor discussion nor anything else to be decided in your mind Roger. You have already made the decision that Mancini isn't fit for purpose. That debate was done, dusted and ended when you made that decision yonks ago.

In order to reach your conclusion, you would obviously have already factored in; his past record, his tactical history, his statistical record, his ability or lack of it and any events/circumstances/changes within the club that may have impacted on his performance. Once you reached your decision, that part of the process had already ended. To bother revisiting is only going over old ground and regurgitating old stuff already dealt with.
Having already mentally discharged him off his duties, we move onto the next phase...Leave the chair empty? For how long? Keep it empty? Fill it with a new manager and if so, how soon and who?

It really is that simple Mate.

...and BTW I am not being pro Mancini, nor was I pro Hughes. I was/am pro City and my argument to keep Hughes at the time was subject to his success/failure to get us into the top 4 by the season's end. Which incidentally Mancini failed to do also.
My present support for Mancini is not a solid as you may imagine Roger. There are many things I would like see changed or improved. Neither am I satisfied with performances and results like yesterday.

I am open minded Mate...but as yet you haven't convinced me there is a better option, when all the circumstances are taken into consideration. I am open to your thoughts and quite willing to be convinced.

[Swales4ever]

Life can be strange. perhaps I always pretended to not have realized that I share the same first name with the most effective MCFC supporter bar.... Alex Ferguson.
A constant, relentless stick on the last three years of complete "shame and embarrassment" to the Club history.
I do not give a shit at how many games did the fucktard attended, as i am sure that Ferguson had watched even more city games than him. Support, in my books, it's a completely different attitude from moaning in the crowd.

Give the moron Mourinho's phone number and then the Sheikh's. He shall need it to negotiate the purchase of controlling stock, before imposing his will.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Piccs,
There is no ongoing debate nor discussion nor anything else to be decided in your mind Roger. You have already made the decision that Mancini isn't fit for purpose. That debate was done, dusted and ended when you made that decision yonks ago.

In order to reach your conclusion, you would obviously have already factored in; his past record, his tactical history, his statistical record, his ability or lack of it and any events/circumstances/changes within the club that may have impacted on his performance. Once you reached your decision, that part of the process had already ended. To bother revisiting is only going over old ground and regurgitating old stuff already dealt with.
Having already mentally discharged him off his duties, we move onto the next phase...Leave the chair empty? For how long? Keep it empty? Fill it with a new manager and if so, how soon and who?

It really is that simple Mate.

...and BTW I am not being pro Mancini, nor was I pro Hughes. I was/am pro City and my argument to keep Hughes at the time was subject to his success/failure to get us into the top 4 by the season's end. Which incidentally Mancini failed to do also.
My present support for Mancini is not a solid as you may imagine Roger. There are many things I would like see changed or improved. Neither am I satisfied with performances and results like yesterday.

I am open minded Mate...but as yet you haven't convinced me there is a better option, when all the circumstances are taken into consideration. I am open to your thoughts and quite willing to be convinced.

Ha Ha John, it seems you want him out really too. Just come and say it loud. You know you want to.
You also know that in all of world football there is a better option. This can't be as good as it gets.
I would want Bob out quickly and a new driven, brave young manager in. He can be our Pep.

[Hazy2]

I s he getting the best out of the squad, Is he bollocks do we look clueless, yes course we fucking do if we were at Loftus Road now it would be nil nil. As for Maureen, he is very close to him in player management so No never that twat, plus he is a walk out waiting to happen, Mancini is being paid fucking shedloads and home or away fails to deliver over many games, his subs are biz along with his after game summaries. We have to work harder fuck me Bob, we look fucked and world class players look like they have the earphones in, we have no divine rights to win anything but we do expect the manager to have answers. for me he is lost, I hope he sorts it , just think going home and way this year his control freak style has possibly run it's course with the players. That is how it has looked since QPR, and whenever a team has sussed us.

[Lev Bronstein]

It's obvious now I suppose, but since becoming champions the whole club, from the higher management to the players, have been self-satisfied and complacent.

Apart from Bobby Manc who knew that our present situation was very likely.