Anyone got Moureens number?

[Beefymcfc]

Martin Samual's done a piece this morning saying Mourinho won't be a match for us.

[Alex Sapphire]

Martin Samual's done a piece this morning saying Mourinho won't be a match for us.

"Every few years brings a Summer of Jose. 2004 was one, 2010 too. And Jose Mourinho has been working very hard to recreate the phenomenon in 2013.

A Summer of Jose is when all eyes are on the Special One. Where is he going, what is he doing? There are Jose sightings, Jose statements, Jose ploys, plays and schemes and, finally, a great Jose festival held in a major European city, with him as headline act.

It is like Glastonbury, minus the hippies. This Summer of Jose, however, risks being an unsatisfying affair, as doors close and options decrease.

There is a distinct absence of spectacle, and at least one dead end. Mourinho will not be the next manager of Manchester City.

As Rafael Benitez would say: fact. It is a dangerous game, denying Jose. He is capable of extraordinary narratives. He won the Champions League with Porto. He steered Inter Milan past Barcelona with 10 men.

The La Liga table suggests Real are not even the best team in Madrid right now, let alone Spain, yet could anyone say with absolute certainty that they will not be present at Wembley on May 25?

Mourinho is one of the great coaches of this or any era. He is one of only three managers to win the European Cup with two different clubs, and one of only four to have won the league in four countries (Tomislav Ivic won titles in six, although it could be suggested that Portugal, England, Italy and Spain for Mourinho trumps Yugoslavia, Holland, Belgium, Greece, Portugal and Spain for Ivic).

Yet there is no way in for him at City, even if the capitulation this season spells the end for Roberto Mancini. The Barcelona influence at the club - chief executive Ferran Soriano and director of football Txiki Begiristain - are too settled on treating Mourinho as the enemy.

Their reports to Sheik Mansour will paint him as a negative, disruptive individual, harmful to the good name of the club. And that name is important.

It is why Abu Dhabi's royal family bought Manchester City in the first place. Even without the disquiet at executive level, Mourinho was going to be a hard sell. The region and its rulers are now associated worldwide with English football and are happy with the link.

City have largely been successful, and even when they haven't, Mancini's odd spat with Carlos Tevez or a referee has not adversely affected their reputation.

Abu Dhabi's representatives are content for their football club to be the ice-breaker in rooms of the great and good.

'How is the team going?' a well-briefed president will ask, and the conversation eases from there to more serious matters of state.

There would not be such comfort around a fresh episode of touchline eyepoking, as occurred against Barcelona in 2011. 'How's that manager of yours, half-blinded anyone lately?' does not have the same ring to it.

City want to be seen to be successful, but they also want to be seen behaving in the correct manner. The representative who made gauche claims about buying Cristiano Ronaldo on the day of the Abu Dhabi takeover has not been heard from since.

City have spent big and make no apologies for it, but the club has no debt, is embarking on a project that will benefit the local community and does not sack two managers each year.

The owners are intent on projecting the right image and were wary of Mourinho's dark reputation long before his adversaries, late of Barcelona, offered confirmation. It has been argued that Mourinho would not have gone to City anyway, knowing it would end his chances of employment across the road.

Yet, increasingly, messages from inside Old Trafford suggest the club has similar misgivings about Mourinho's reputation.

Sir Bobby Charlton's dismissal of Mourinho in an interview before Christmas was revealing and while United are no strangers to controversy, having employed Sir Alex Ferguson for so long, a Mourinho maelstrom is an entirely different beast.

Throughout Ferguson's battles - with the Football Association, with referees, with players and rival managers - he invariably has the club at heart. He takes feuds personally, but they are rarely personal feuds.

The same cannot always be said of Mourinho. Many of his most memorable salvos - against the Reading ambulance service for instance - rebounded horribly on the standing of his club. Do United need that aggravation?

Indeed, who does? A return to Chelsea would be an alternative, or a fifth country, France, if Carlo Ancelotti fails to deliver the title at ambitious Paris Saint- Germain.

Win the Champions League with Madrid, and there may even be a future for him in Spain. Except Mourinho's style is to leave them wanting more.

Hard if no-one wants more. This Summer of Jose may prove as fleeting as any he experienced in England."

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Martin Samual's done a piece this morning saying Mourinho won't be a match for us.

"Every few years brings a Summer of Jose. 2004 was one, 2010 too. And Jose Mourinho has been working very hard to recreate the phenomenon in 2013.

A Summer of Jose is when all eyes are on the Special One. Where is he going, what is he doing? There are Jose sightings, Jose statements, Jose ploys, plays and schemes and, finally, a great Jose festival held in a major European city, with him as headline act.

It is like Glastonbury, minus the hippies. This Summer of Jose, however, risks being an unsatisfying affair, as doors close and options decrease.

There is a distinct absence of spectacle, and at least one dead end. Mourinho will not be the next manager of Manchester City.

As Rafael Benitez would say: fact. It is a dangerous game, denying Jose. He is capable of extraordinary narratives. He won the Champions League with Porto. He steered Inter Milan past Barcelona with 10 men.

The La Liga table suggests Real are not even the best team in Madrid right now, let alone Spain, yet could anyone say with absolute certainty that they will not be present at Wembley on May 25?

Mourinho is one of the great coaches of this or any era. He is one of only three managers to win the European Cup with two different clubs, and one of only four to have won the league in four countries (Tomislav Ivic won titles in six, although it could be suggested that Portugal, England, Italy and Spain for Mourinho trumps Yugoslavia, Holland, Belgium, Greece, Portugal and Spain for Ivic).

Yet there is no way in for him at City, even if the capitulation this season spells the end for Roberto Mancini. The Barcelona influence at the club - chief executive Ferran Soriano and director of football Txiki Begiristain - are too settled on treating Mourinho as the enemy.

Their reports to Sheik Mansour will paint him as a negative, disruptive individual, harmful to the good name of the club. And that name is important.

It is why Abu Dhabi's royal family bought Manchester City in the first place. Even without the disquiet at executive level, Mourinho was going to be a hard sell. The region and its rulers are now associated worldwide with English football and are happy with the link.

City have largely been successful, and even when they haven't, Mancini's odd spat with Carlos Tevez or a referee has not adversely affected their reputation.

Abu Dhabi's representatives are content for their football club to be the ice-breaker in rooms of the great and good.

'How is the team going?' a well-briefed president will ask, and the conversation eases from there to more serious matters of state.

There would not be such comfort around a fresh episode of touchline eyepoking, as occurred against Barcelona in 2011. 'How's that manager of yours, half-blinded anyone lately?' does not have the same ring to it.

City want to be seen to be successful, but they also want to be seen behaving in the correct manner. The representative who made gauche claims about buying Cristiano Ronaldo on the day of the Abu Dhabi takeover has not been heard from since.

City have spent big and make no apologies for it, but the club has no debt, is embarking on a project that will benefit the local community and does not sack two managers each year.

The owners are intent on projecting the right image and were wary of Mourinho's dark reputation long before his adversaries, late of Barcelona, offered confirmation. It has been argued that Mourinho would not have gone to City anyway, knowing it would end his chances of employment across the road.

Yet, increasingly, messages from inside Old Trafford suggest the club has similar misgivings about Mourinho's reputation.

Sir Bobby Charlton's dismissal of Mourinho in an interview before Christmas was revealing and while United are no strangers to controversy, having employed Sir Alex Ferguson for so long, a Mourinho maelstrom is an entirely different beast.

Throughout Ferguson's battles - with the Football Association, with referees, with players and rival managers - he invariably has the club at heart. He takes feuds personally, but they are rarely personal feuds.

The same cannot always be said of Mourinho. Many of his most memorable salvos - against the Reading ambulance service for instance - rebounded horribly on the standing of his club. Do United need that aggravation?

Indeed, who does? A return to Chelsea would be an alternative, or a fifth country, France, if Carlo Ancelotti fails to deliver the title at ambitious Paris Saint- Germain.

Win the Champions League with Madrid, and there may even be a future for him in Spain. Except Mourinho's style is to leave them wanting more.

Hard if no-one wants more. This Summer of Jose may prove as fleeting as any he experienced in England."

Good read that and makes perfect sense.
I was never too sure rags would appoint Jose anyway. I think they want to continue with long term manager. The thinking was always that Mourinho is the only manager as good if not better (he is imo) than ferguson but it's not just that. Rags have a massive trademark, we are trying to build one. Mourinho's trademark is Mourinho.

[Im_Spartacus]

Good read that and makes perfect sense.
I was never too sure rags would appoint Jose anyway. I think they want to continue with long term manager. The thinking was always that Mourinho is the only manager as good if not better (he is imo) than ferguson but it's not just that. Rags have a massive trademark, we are trying to build one. Mourinho's trademark is Mourinho.

Do you reckon they will find a long term manager?

I think that after the freak has gone, they will become much like anyother club where 3-4 years is considered a decent tenure, as the new manager will have no credit in the bank to tide over a few years of failure and will likely perform considerably worse than ferguson

They have a conundrum, do they back their man like they did between 86-92........I personally think times have changed, they cant afford to be trophyless for a couple of seasons without pulling the trigger, the financal risk of dropping out of the champs league is too great, and the minute at looks like happening, the manager will be gone.

United will go for the safest option in the short term, as the club may be sold by the time Jose started acting the cunt with the board.

I just wonder................

Would we appoint Jose for a few years to stop united getting him? Because I dont think we would see the league title for ssome time if he went there, or do we hang on till we are ready to appoint guardiola as the cherry on top of the academy. Or could we do both? I still suspect there is a potential deal with guardiola which is why he's gone to Germany

[Ted Hughes]

I wonder if that is just Samuel making assumptions or whether he has been tipped off.

I always assumed that our two Catalans would put an end to our annual chatting up of Mourinho, but others suggest this isn't the case.

If we aren't interested in Mourinho, I'd be very surprised if Bob is replaced by anyone else, so it would suggest no imminent panic.

Be interesting to see if any other decent journos write anything similar.

[Ted Hughes]

Good read that and makes perfect sense.
I was never too sure rags would appoint Jose anyway. I think they want to continue with long term manager. The thinking was always that Mourinho is the only manager as good if not better (he is imo) than ferguson but it's not just that. Rags have a massive trademark, we are trying to build one. Mourinho's trademark is Mourinho.

Do you reckon they will find a long term manager?

I think that after the freak has gone, they will become much like anyother club where 3-4 years is considered a decent tenure, as the new manager will have no credit in the bank to tide over a few years of failure and will likely perform considerably worse than ferguson

They have a conundrum, do they back their man like they did between 86-92........I personally think times have changed, they cant afford to be trophyless for a couple of seasons without pulling the trigger, the financal risk of dropping out of the champs league is too great, and the minute at looks like happening, the manager will be gone.

United will go for the safest option in the short term, as the club may be sold by the time Jose started acting the cunt with the board.

I just wonder................

Would we appoint Jose for a few years to stop united getting him? Because I dont think we would see the league title for ssome time if he went there, or do we hang on till we are ready to appoint guardiola as the cherry on top of the academy. Or could we do both? I still suspect there is a potential deal with guardiola which is why he's gone to Germany

The plan could be simply Mancini for a few more years then Guardiola IF he does ok in Germany.

[Im_Spartacus]

I wonder if that is just Samuel making assumptions or whether he has been tipped off.

I always assumed that our two Catalans would put an end to our annual chatting up of Mourinho, but others suggest this isn't the case.

If we aren't interested in Mourinho, I'd be very surprised if Bob is replaced by anyone else, so it would suggest no imminent panic.

Be interesting to see if any other decent journos write anything similar.

Its the same assumption that had most journos appointing guardiola tbis summer because of the link to barcelona. Now the link to barcelona is being used to say why we wont sign someone. They cant have it both ways.

Can anyone remind me, was the issue with jose and barca not just the distaste after the famous chelsea game at the nou camp? The fans wouldnt accept him after that, or was there another issue?

I ask as the statement about mourinho not fitting with barcelona was fine in hindsight with guardiola having won everything in sight, and he just having moved to madrid, but I doubt that would have ever been said if guardiola had been shit. It just sounds like a wise after the event statement to me.

[Ted Hughes]

I wonder if that is just Samuel making assumptions or whether he has been tipped off.

I always assumed that our two Catalans would put an end to our annual chatting up of Mourinho, but others suggest this isn't the case.

If we aren't interested in Mourinho, I'd be very surprised if Bob is replaced by anyone else, so it would suggest no imminent panic.

Be interesting to see if any other decent journos write anything similar.

Its the same assumption that had most journos appointing guardiola tbis summer because of the link to barcelona. Now the link to barcelona is being used to say why we wont sign someone. They cant have it both ways.

Can anyone remind me, was the issue with jose and barca not just the distaste after the famous chelsea game at the nou camp? The fans wouldnt accept him after that, or was there another issue?

I ask as the statement about mourinho not fitting with barcelona was fine in hindsight with guardiola having won everything in sight, and he just having moved to madrid, but I doubt that would have ever been said if guardiola had been shit. It just sounds like a wise after the event statement to me.

Mourinho doesn't like Barca & has accused them of all kinds since day one. The ensuing nastiness worked to wind up his clubs & his willingness to stoop to any level & create animosity in order to win is probably one of the reasons Ferguson likes him.

Possibly hates Barca also because Tricky & Fairy didn't give him the job & he is an egomaniac. He doesn't like Guariola, possibly because he got the job at Barca. He's still on Pep's case now, claiming (jokingly) he went to Germany so he doesn't have to face Mourinho in the future.

I would be shocked if City employ him now. In the past we talked to him every season but if these blokes go for him I'd be gobsmacked.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

[Ted Hughes]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

I don't think we are fully at that stage yet though. Imo, they would prefer Bob to continue for at least most of his contract but if they do decide he's blown it & needs replacing, it's not impossible we could see one more similar appointment before going fully down that road in the future.

I will be surprised if Guardiola doesn't end up at City eventually if he passes his German test though.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

I don't think we are fully at that stage yet though. Imo, they would prefer Bob to continue for at least most of his contract but if they do decide he's blown it & needs replacing, it's not impossible we could see one more similar appointment before going fully down that road in the future.

I will be surprised if Guardiola doesn't end up at City eventually if he passes his German test though.

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

[Im_Spartacus]

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

But does Mancini not already do all the things we wouldnt want Mourinho to do?

He hounded Marwood
He stated both Mario and tevez would never play for the club again
He criticises players publically
He is interested in winning, not in youth

This is why I dont understand people who would back Mancini as part of our "project" but recoil in horror at the thought of Mourinho. Mancini is just a poor man's version who actually has the exact same flaws we accuse mourinho of.

I cant decide whether I would like Mourinho here or not, there are positives and negatives to it. But to paint him as wildly different to Mancini is for me disingenuous, he is just better at his job which, if you are bringing the pots home and the money into the coffers, does allow you a certain amount of sway, as Mancini no doubt gets now.

[Mark Garrett]

Very interesting article by Martin Samuel and is pieces are always well thought out and with good reasoning. This article is another example of that.

I personally think that the owners will stick and want Mancini in charge next season because they know he has brought success to City and brought good football. Also the 5 year contract handed to Mancini in July was a show of committment from both parties that they saw he was the right man and reward.

Yes things have not gone as well as the club, owners, Mancini and the fans would have liked this season but we could still finish with a trophy in the cabinet.

Fans point to Bergirstain and Soriano and say they will want to appoint their own man but that doesn't stack up really as definitely in Soriano's case, the owners knew he would be Chief Exec when Mancini was signing his new deal and I would imagine they knew that Bergistain would be following soon after in September.

With Jose as I've said he is very short term usually 2 or at most 3 seasons with a club before leaving. No history of youth players or working on a tighter budget. Mancini has done both in the past namely at Fiorentina when the club were in severe financial problems when he took over and the same again at Lazio as he brought them cup success and champions lge qualification on a limited budget.

Also with Jose the 2 executives we have decided against appointing him for Barca prior to Pep getting job, one of the reasons was due to his behaviour as indicated in the article.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

But does Mancini not already do all the things we wouldnt want Mourinho to do?

He hounded Marwood
He stated both Mario and tevez would never play for the club again
He criticises players publically
He is interested in winning, not in youth

This is why I dont understand people who would back Mancini as part of our "project" but recoil in horror at the thought of Mourinho. Mancini is just a poor man's version who actually has the exact same flaws we accuse mourinho of.

I cant decide whether I would like Mourinho here or not, there are positives and negatives to it. But to paint him as wildly different to Mancini is for me disingenuous, he is just better at his job which, if you are bringing the pots home and the money into the coffers, does allow you a certain amount of sway, as Mancini no doubt gets now.

Like I said, Mancini does SOME (certainly not all) of the things Mourinho does. But Mancini wasn't appointed by these guys. When these guys get to pick first manager of their own, I don't think they will be taking any chances with complicated characters who have tendency to undermine those above them. Especially as their own position isn't rock solid in eyes of supporters yet. THAT is why I agree with Samuel and highly doubt Mourinho will ever manage us.

[Ted Hughes]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

I don't think we are fully at that stage yet though. Imo, they would prefer Bob to continue for at least most of his contract but if they do decide he's blown it & needs replacing, it's not impossible we could see one more similar appointment before going fully down that road in the future.

I will be surprised if Guardiola doesn't end up at City eventually if he passes his German test though.

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

The Premier League is a unique challenge & managers like to find out if they can hack it, but also Guardiola said just before the Bayern announcement that he intends to be a manager over here.

Is Mourinho not pretty much working under more instructions at Madrid than he would be at City btw ?

My reasoning for Mourinho or possibly Mancini not being suitable here in the future is not really just down to the 'director of Football' situation pre se but that I believe some of the quotes attributed to Tricky are true; that the future is a selection of star players signed but then the hard core of the team built from our academy. At some point we have to start forcing managers to play more youngsters if that is to happen & those two may not be happy wheras Pep or a coach (Vieira ?) wouldn't complain too much.

I think we will see the first steps of that happening in the next few seasons but not 100%, so Bob SHOULD be comfortable with it. Perhaps he will even get used to it & choose to stay on longer, but I feel he will be off to Italy in a couple of seasons whatever happens, good or bad.

edit: would they keep some of Bob's staff ? Otherwise you would expect gradual changes there over the next few seasons, club coaches rather than just the manager's coaches, if continuity is to be maintained.

[Im_Spartacus]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

I don't think we are fully at that stage yet though. Imo, they would prefer Bob to continue for at least most of his contract but if they do decide he's blown it & needs replacing, it's not impossible we could see one more similar appointment before going fully down that road in the future.

I will be surprised if Guardiola doesn't end up at City eventually if he passes his German test though.

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

The Premier League is a unique challenge & managers like to find out if they can hack it, but also Guardiola said just before the Bayern announcement that he intends to be a manager over here.

Is Mourinho not pretty much working under more instructions at Madrid than he would be at City btw ?

My reasoning for Mourinho or possibly Mancini not being suitable here in the future is not really just down to the 'director of Football' situation pre se but that I believe some of the quotes attributed to Tricky are true; that the future is a selection of star players signed but then the hard core of the team built from our academy. At some point we have to start forcing managers to play more youngsters if that is to happen & those two may not be happy wheras Pep or a coach (Vieira ?) wouldn't complain too much.

I think we will see the first steps of that happening in the next few seasons but not 100%, so Bob SHOULD be comfortable with it. Perhaps he will even get used to it & choose to stay on longer, but I feel he will be off to Italy in a couple of seasons whatever happens, good or bad.

edit: would they keep some of Bob's staff ? Otherwise you would expect gradual changes there over the next few seasons, club coaches rather than just the manager's coaches, if continuity is to be maintained.

I'd have thought club coaches around the reserves and youth setup, but you will always want your trusted right hand man / men around you, otherwise managing a club could become a very lonely experience, especially if those charged to support you are undermining you in some way.

And obv we can only start to force the manager to play the youth by developing good quality, which we appear to be on the cusp of - albeit much of it has been bought in at age 17/18. I think we have some way to go before we can play 2 or even 3 home grown players as starters and not suffer too much, as for all the excitement I don't see any players standing out to me at the moment which I feel is disappointing given we have some highly rated 18/19 year olds, but other than maybe Guidetti's exploits last season, none of them are really shouting out for a chance at the top level yet

Its all interesting, and glad that the discussion has evolved to the long term rather than just this week and next week's results.

[Ted Hughes]

People don't understand the meaning of Director of Football system. These guys, Beguiristain and Sorino, are the men firmly in charge of all the football matters now. They are the constant and they will efectively make the decision on manager. It's extremely unlikely they would appoint ANY egomaniac manager. They want a COACH who put the team out and take care of the tactics and training but they don't want anyone questioning their work and the team they give to coach. THAT more than anything might well be Mancini's downfall in the end. These guys don't want internal affairs in papers.

You can bet your arse that whoever comes in after Mancini (whenever that may be) is going to be someone mellow and excellent coach rather than manager.

I don't think we are fully at that stage yet though. Imo, they would prefer Bob to continue for at least most of his contract but if they do decide he's blown it & needs replacing, it's not impossible we could see one more similar appointment before going fully down that road in the future.

I will be surprised if Guardiola doesn't end up at City eventually if he passes his German test though.

I'm not saying we are getting rid of Mancini any time soon but that as far as having a "character" in charge, Mancini is absolute upper echelon for these guys. As a Director of Football you don't want someone constantly undermining you, putting the blame on your shoulder and moaning about the players you provide for their use. Mourinho will do all that and probably have players and supporters behind him as well. That'd be receipe for disaster (for DoF and Chief Exec....not necesserily for club and supporters). You absolutely don't want that as a director of football.

Guardiola situation is funny. If he fails in Munich, there's no chance he'd be appointed to City. If he is success, why would he want to come? Even with his pals in charge.

The Premier League is a unique challenge & managers like to find out if they can hack it, but also Guardiola said just before the Bayern announcement that he intends to be a manager over here.

Is Mourinho not pretty much working under more instructions at Madrid than he would be at City btw ?

My reasoning for Mourinho or possibly Mancini not being suitable here in the future is not really just down to the 'director of Football' situation pre se but that I believe some of the quotes attributed to Tricky are true; that the future is a selection of star players signed but then the hard core of the team built from our academy. At some point we have to start forcing managers to play more youngsters if that is to happen & those two may not be happy wheras Pep or a coach (Vieira ?) wouldn't complain too much.

I think we will see the first steps of that happening in the next few seasons but not 100%, so Bob SHOULD be comfortable with it. Perhaps he will even get used to it & choose to stay on longer, but I feel he will be off to Italy in a couple of seasons whatever happens, good or bad.

edit: would they keep some of Bob's staff ? Otherwise you would expect gradual changes there over the next few seasons, club coaches rather than just the manager's coaches, if continuity is to be maintained.

[highlight]I'd have thought club coaches around the reserves and youth setup, but you will always want your trusted right hand man / men around you, otherwise managing a club could become a very lonely experience[/highlight], especially if those charged to support you are undermining you in some way.

And obv we can only start to force the manager to play the youth by developing good quality, which we appear to be on the cusp of - albeit much of it has been bought in at age 17/18. I think we have some way to go before we can play 2 or even 3 home grown players as starters and not suffer too much, as for all the excitement I don't see any players standing out to me at the moment which I feel is disappointing given we have some highly rated 18/19 year olds, but other than maybe Guidetti's exploits last season, none of them are really shouting out for a chance at the top level yet

Its all interesting, and glad that the discussion has evolved to the long term rather than just this week and next week's results.

That's the point though, you can't change a load of those coaches each time with the system we are discussing. It's the case that you have to have a system at the club where a manager slots in, rather than the manager arrives & brings a load of people with him.

Mancini has brought in a shipload of people in an 'old school' Ferguson style system where he has put his people at every level of the club, even putting his family members amongst the kids. City have gone the opposite way & are building their own dynasty instead of putting Mancini in charge of everything like he was asking for.

At some point, for the Barca model to work, the Mancini mob have to also become the long term City mob, irrespective of whether he stays or not, OR City (or rather tricky & Co) will have to replace many of them with their own people.

The whole point of that sytem is that managers come & go without major upheaval, like the smooth transition at Barca now.

[dazby]

That finger in the eye incident has done untold damage to his reputation.

[Beefymcfc]

That finger in the eye incident has done untold damage to his reputation.

Maybe being 3rd in the league maybe a problem as well.

[Ted Hughes]

For once a Sky reporter got it right tonight when he said Mourinho looks unhappy.

He looks depressed, old, & a bit overweight.

Ideal City manager material from the old days.