Grobarisation soon to arrive ?

[Cocacolajojo1]

Yeah I know it should read Leibniz's jojo the best possible. Sorry.

[zuricity]

Is it here yet ffs it's freezing.

temps should slowly rise by the weekend , i have it on good authority that it will be very warm on monday, with lots of sunshine everwhere , except England

[zuricity]

Restraint of trade in EU law terms only concerns a right to trade across the EU area uninhibited, if Platini said we couldn't sell replica shirts in France it would be a restraint of trade and of interest to the court. Saying we have to meet certain rules to compete in invitational competitions is not a restraint of trade as long as applied equally across all potential qualifying competitors. It really is that simple...

This invitational tourny you're crapping on about , would it be the CL for example ? is it open to the team that gets relegated from the PL? it is after all 'invitational '.

Of course it isn't , the European Cup was watered down to ensure the G14 got in every year.

Now people are moving in with real money instead of borrowed money , the borrowers , aka Rags, Juve , milans, madrid don't like it

[Im_Spartacus]

Restraint of trade in EU law terms only concerns a right to trade across the EU area uninhibited, if Platini said we couldn't sell replica shirts in France it would be a restraint of trade and of interest to the court. Saying we have to meet certain rules to compete in invitational competitions is not a restraint of trade as long as applied equally across all potential qualifying competitors. It really is that simple...

My personal belief is that the ground over which this will be fought in the future, is not over whether a club is invited into a competition, it will be over the legal definition of that club and competition.

There are some very archaic rules in football across Europe which hark back to the time when football clubs were effectively "social enterprises", you only need look at the rules regarding football creditors under administration to see the utterly ridiculous way in which a football club is treated legally differently in this country, and the financial institutions are fiercly lobbying the government to introduce legislation to state that as a BUSINESS first and foremost, the law of the ruling jurisdiction applies to all commercial matters. There is currently little appetite for this although most clubs agree its a ridiculous rule, but someone like Fulham could force the issue on this point, and then it opens up a can of worms for FFP.

If football cubs across Europe are to be similarly re-classified as businesses as a result of a legal challenge by a club like fulham, then opportunities such as entry to the Uefa Champions League (which would also need to be reclassified as a business in its own right, which technically it is by selling collective media rights and being a separate company legally etc), then denying businesses operating in that environment, eg, football clubs, access to that market because of imposing unreasonable barriers to entry would effectively become a restraint of trade and could effectively see Uefa and the clubs with the biggest interests in the CL to be seen to be operating a cartel type arrangement whereby the rules are arranged to restrict competition and impose unreasonable barriers to entering that market.

That is where the battleground on FFP lies.

There is little mileage in any other argument in my humble opinion whilst football clubs remain social organisations, and competitions are seen as informal rather than the businesses they actually are in their own right.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

Restraint of trade in EU law terms only concerns a right to trade across the EU area uninhibited, if Platini said we couldn't sell replica shirts in France it would be a restraint of trade and of interest to the court. Saying we have to meet certain rules to compete in invitational competitions is not a restraint of trade as long as applied equally across all potential qualifying competitors. It really is that simple...

My personal belief is that the ground over which this will be fought in the future, is not over whether a club is invited into a competition, it will be over the legal definition of that club and competition.

There are some very archaic rules in football across Europe which hark back to the time when football clubs were effectively "social enterprises", you only need look at the rules regarding football creditors under administration to see the utterly ridiculous way in which a football club is treated legally differently in this country, and the financial institutions are fiercly lobbying the government to introduce legislation to state that as a BUSINESS first and foremost, the law of the ruling jurisdiction applies to all commercial matters. There is currently little appetite for this although most clubs agree its a ridiculous rule, but someone like Fulham could force the issue on this point, and then it opens up a can of worms for FFP.

If football cubs across Europe are to be similarly re-classified as businesses as a result of a legal challenge by a club like fulham, then opportunities such as entry to the Uefa Champions League (which would also need to be reclassified as a business in its own right, which technically it is by selling collective media rights and being a separate company legally etc), then denying businesses operating in that environment, eg, football clubs, access to that market because of imposing unreasonable barriers to entry would effectively become a restraint of trade and could effectively see Uefa and the clubs with the biggest interests in the CL to be seen to be operating a cartel type arrangement whereby the rules are arranged to restrict competition and impose unreasonable barriers to entering that market.

That is where the battleground on FFP lies.

There is little mileage in any other argument in my humble opinion whilst football clubs remain social organisations, and competitions are seen as informal rather than the businesses they actually are in their own right.

Eloquently put, that's it in a nutshell, and the EU has already indicated that football is not going to be treated as a special case.

[Im_Spartacus]

Eloquently put, that's it in a nutshell, and the EU has already indicated that football is not going to be treated as a special case.

Yeah, it sort of means that both socs and Carl are right. Both attacking the subject from a different angle.

As it stands, socs has it fairly bang on, but there is definitely a legal challenge to be made, and when it is made, the implications for european football could be as wide reaching as the bosman ruling

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

Eloquently put, that's it in a nutshell, and the EU has already indicated that football is not going to be treated as a special case.

Yeah, it sort of means that both socs and Carl are right. Both attacking the subject from a different angle.

As it stands, socs has it fairly bang on, but there is definitely a legal challenge to be made, and when it is made, the implications for european football could be as wide reaching as the bosman ruling

The thing is, this could have turned out to be something really good for football, had it been done in the right way. For example, as debt is the problem (look what happened to Leeds trying to keep up with the obscene money spent by the rags on players and wages) then they could have said that debt has to be no more than the clubs yearly turnover, problem solved-ish. Any new money coming into football would therefore be welcomed and would help to keep debt down. As it is, the cartel of wankers that were formerly the G14, aided and abetted by Platini, et al, have tried to screw the rest of football and in the process are about to ruin any remaining sense of competition. Unless legally challenged.

[Nigels Tackle]

seems that ffp brings out the capitalist in everyone

thatcher missed a trick

[zuricity]

My personal belief is that the ground over which this will be fought in the future, is not over whether a club is invited into a competition, it will be over the legal definition of that club and competition.

There are some very archaic rules in football across Europe which hark back to the time when football clubs were effectively "social enterprises", you only need look at the rules regarding football creditors under administration to see the utterly ridiculous way in which a football club is treated legally differently in this country, and the financial institutions are fiercly lobbying the government to introduce legislation to state that as a BUSINESS first and foremost, the law of the ruling jurisdiction applies to all commercial matters. There is currently little appetite for this although most clubs agree its a ridiculous rule, but someone like Fulham could force the issue on this point, and then it opens up a can of worms for FFP.

If football cubs across Europe are to be similarly re-classified as businesses as a result of a legal challenge by a club like fulham, then opportunities such as entry to the Uefa Champions League (which would also need to be reclassified as a business in its own right, which technically it is by selling collective media rights and being a separate company legally etc), then denying businesses operating in that environment, eg, football clubs, access to that market because of imposing unreasonable barriers to entry would effectively become a restraint of trade and could effectively see Uefa and the clubs with the biggest interests in the CL to be seen to be operating a cartel type arrangement whereby the rules are arranged to restrict competition and impose unreasonable barriers to entering that market.

That is where the battleground on FFP lies.

There is little mileage in any other argument in my humble opinion whilst football clubs remain social organisations, and competitions are seen as informal rather than the businesses they actually are in their own right.

Amen brother. Saved me putting my brain in gear.

[zuricity]

seems that ffp brings out the capitalist in everyone

thatcher missed a trick

She f*cked everything up .

[Dameerto]

seems that ffp brings out the capitalist in everyone

thatcher missed a trick

Are you saying she was a lazy prostitute?

[Socrates]

Oh ffs. Zurichcity do I appear stupid to you? Yes people bring cases and indeed so do organisations but the court decides whether to hear them or not. With the weight of precedent and lack of a true restraint of trade is very unlikely they would agree to hear such a case.

As for the invitational element of competitions, if this isn't retained as relevant then the rules on national association competitions would not stand and FAs would not be allowed to block entrants to competions from different countries. We wont just end up with celtic in the premier league but maybe ajax too?

[dazby]

Grobarisation soon to arrive ?

Does this mean Grob is coming back? And he's from another country? Or multiple countries? Or multiple Grobs to take us all over?

[Duckman]

Grobarisation soon to arrive ?

Does this mean Grob is coming back? And he's from another country? Or multiple countries? Or multiple Grobs to take us all over?

in serbian, croatian and bosnian, grobar means an undertaker...I was baffled.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Grobarisation soon to arrive ?

Does this mean Grob is coming back? And he's from another country? Or multiple countries? Or multiple Grobs to take us all over?

And where is he?

[Hazy2]

Are we there yet.

[john@staustell]

Are we there yet.

Patience children. Sit quietly in the back!

I think our recent revenue figures will have really spooked our FFP 'enemies'. I will be very interested see if there is still a marked improvement in this year's figures, or if we are hitting a wall. Positives are the new TV deal and the inevitable ground expansion.

Within 2 years it could easily be that FFP is working in City's favour, whilst the likes of Arsenal and Milan financially stagnate! Oh the irony.

[Hazy2]

Are we there yet.

Patience children. Sit quietly in the back!

I think our recent revenue figures will have really spooked our FFP 'enemies'. I will be very interested see if there is still a marked improvement in this year's figures, or if we are hitting a wall. Positives are the new TV deal and the inevitable ground expansion.

Within 2 years it could easily be that FFP is working in City's favour, whilst the likes of Arsenal and Milan financially stagnate! Oh the irony.

Ok are we there yet.

[john@staustell]

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Are we there yet.

Patience children. Sit quietly in the back!

I think our recent revenue figures will have really spooked our FFP 'enemies'. I will be very interested see if there is still a marked improvement in this year's figures, or if we are hitting a wall. Positives are the new TV deal and the inevitable ground expansion.

Within 2 years it could easily be that FFP is working in City's favour, whilst the likes of Arsenal and Milan financially stagnate! Oh the irony.

If I'm not mistaken the new Etihad deal wasn't included in the latest figures. We also have the new kit deal to kick in next season along with the new TV deal so I think it's safe to say our turnover will be higher again.