Why

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Why aren't we winning the league or at least neck and neck with the scum? We saw,as everyone watching did, last night that we are the better side but we are still 12 points behind and that's a heck of a lot.

1)Complacency. There must be something in that and historically it does seem to happen a lot after a first title winning year for a while.Not a question of not trying or working hard enough but maybe expecting to win games with just not enough sheer effort.

2) Lack of quality new players.I won't get into blaming anyone specific as I don't know the absolute truth as to why we missed 2 or 3 key targets but I do believe we didn't add enough to a quality squad

3) Form. Maybe this is linked to the complacency one but a few players just haven't been close enough to their best.Probably the majority of the team when you think about it with maybe Zaba and Milner the exceptions and just look at the type of player they are!

4)The scums results have been exceptional even if their performances haven't been.I don't fully buy into the idea that teams just play scared against them although there is some truth in it but they were losing plenty of games this season but scrambled home with just that one extra goal. They had extra incentive after last year's painful experience and it has showed.

5) Injuries. Last season we were fairly lucky overall but not so this season and to key players at key times it seems.The squad should cope but it has hurt.

6) Other teams Cup finals.Again some truth in it as we see from Everton and Sunderland all the time.But we should no this (complacency?) and make sure we are giving 100% effort to overcome the same from the opposition but at times it seems we are surprised when it happens.Add that to the fact that teams know how to stifle us more and more and you get the QPR,Sunderland and WHU away games not to mention games like Southampton.

7) Tactics. Not sure I have concerns about tactics even though we hear stuff about needing a plan B which I assume would be about a big man and playing more longer balls.Yes there have been a few manager decisions which have surprised me at times but not many and I would say Slur Alex has made more blatant bad ones than most and look where they are.

8) Goals. Somewhere in the above is the reason why we haven't scored enough goals.If you add just 10 more to our current tally and of course put them in the right games and we are right there.Just one in 6 of the drawn games and ........IF's and BUT's bla bla

The reality is that we have failed to achieve our target in the league this season but it's far from all doom and gloom as we are clearly very close ( forgetting the pints diff) and will be back next season for certain.

Is Mancini the man to do it for us? I think the answer is yes but I confess to concerns that his man management has caused problems in the dressing room.Maybe it hasn't and the players understands why he says some of the things he does in the way he does and don't get upset but I am just not sure.I hope they do and are fully behind him. ( Nasri,Hart,Kompany,Lescott and even Yaya)

Personally I will be very happy with a strong finish to the season and winning the FA Cup.I hear all sorts of crap that you have to get better season after season but I just don't buy that.You can't win the title every year but the key is about being in the mix all the time and winning something year on year so this year the FA Cup will do.I would like to look back in 10 or so years and see a bunch of titles and Cups,10 15 or whatever but somewhere in there will be quiet years.

And then there's Europe and different questions.We have been poor in our 2 attempts at the CL and that cannot be ignored and for me it is where the tactical things comes up as I do feel Mancini appears lost.We have shown we can play and cause any team in Europe problems but we haven't worked out how to play so that they don't hurt us which is the biggest essential.I do think Mancini should get another go at it and let's hope he will work it out.

[ruralblue]

Something that does stick out like a sore thumb is our lack of pace getting the ball out of the back. We seem to just take the foot off the gas coming out of our half which allows opposition to get organised for our attack.

[getdressedmctavish]

Good post Doug. As you know I think Bert has been the reason for us slightly underperforming. Don't get me wrong. He has taken us a long way in terms of professionalism and style of play. However I think Ferguson's less hands on style has allowed his team to play with less fear than we have done away. The team's are evenly matched given key injuries to both sets. But United have had the more positive attitude away from home, winning games with do or die efforts, where we have struggled when our measured approach has been ruffled. in my view Bert's constant carping about the squad and not getting the players he wanted was bound to negatively affect team spirit. When you throw in tactical naivety in Europe, (and at Southampton and Everton), and his refusal to sit back and let the players play, I think we will be going to Everton and Europe with the same problems next year no matter which stars we buy. However, at the end I think it comes down to whether you like the man's style. I don't. But last night was certainly one to enjoy, not least because we completely out thought them. As I've said to a lot, Chelsea will be different. They will try to negate us (kick us)with Ramires and Mikel and play it tight. That worries me because it will be more like a European game and because I'm never comfortable when City are favourites. But maybe Bert will come up with the answers again.

[Rag_hater]

The way I see it is that for me this team is the best team I have seen us ever have,maybe King Colin team was better but it was a little before my time so I don not really know.However I think this Rag team is better than it is given credit for and on their day,Us,them and the Chavs are about equal Somedays like yesterday we are better.Why as you ask who knows.For me the fact that those twats are good somewhat limits what we can do.

[Chinners]

For me the big/major difference between the two sides this season is that we have drawn too many games whilst they have nicked wins in games they should/could have drawn. Mancini is correct in my opinion that there is little between us this season.

[dick dastardley]

poor away form simple as that!!!

[john@staustell]

Ref at Sunderland (Zabba fouled) + Hart at Sunderland
Barry's mega show at Southampton + Hart
Ref at Everton (and performance)
Nasri and Hart in Scum home game
Poor finishing against West Ham, QPR and Chelsea

Though the media seem shocked we played well, because the bastards never bother with us much, our general play is, with one or two exceptions, pretty dominating every time.

Individual lack of concentration.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Last night showed our squad is good enough to win the title. We need in my opinion a top class pacey winger and a back up striker.
Oh and for our players to perform as we know they can.

[sandman]

Personally I will be very happy with a strong finish to the season and winning the FA Cup.I hear all sorts of crap that you have to get better season after season but I just don't buy that.You can't win the title every year but the key is about being in the mix all the time and winning something year on year so this year the FA Cup will do.I would like to look back in 10 or so years and see a bunch of titles and Cups,10 15 or whatever but somewhere in there will be quiet years.

This statement has honestly made me feel a lot better about this season, I totally agree, nobody bangs on about 1995, 1998, 2005 & 2012 when the scum won absolutely nothing, nobody talks about 1992, 2002, 2006 & 2010 when they only managed the Rumbelows Cup, so how can anyone consider that to only win the FA Cup (as united did in 2004) to be a failed season?

By that logic United have had 9 shocking seasons since 1992, but does anybody think bad of them?

I think this season will have been a success if we win the FA Cup and only a failure if not.

[Blue Since 76]

The rags have found a knack of winning games against the poorer teams week in and week out. They usually struggle against their peers - if I remember rightly, the season we finished 5th, they won it by quite a margin and yet beat none of the other top 4, home or away.

Look at Liverpool - on their day, a match for pretty much anyone in the league, but struggle to raise their game for lesser teams. They're not quite there in terms of quality against the top sides, but we saw what they did to us twice and it was similar against the other top teams. You can also throw Arsenal, Everton and Spurs into that - enough to worry the top 3 on any given game, but can't do it consistently.

We're obviously not that bad, but now we're up here, I can see a real difference between the top 2/3 sides and the ones fighting for 4th spot. The top few sides are able to go out and grind out a result everytime. Doesn't matter if someone is injured or it's after a European game - they find a way to win.

This season, the rags have been brilliant at it. The rags I know all think they've been pretty poor in the main this season, but they're likely to beat heir own points record and maybe Chelsea's record.

We're not far behind that and may end up with pretty much the same points as last season. But we need to find a way to beat those stubborn teams who aren't interested in playing. That may mean more width or a different sort of centre forward, but we need to avoid the draws next season. Unless they're against top 3 competitors, they're worthless - it'd be better to lose the occasional game pushing for the win at any cost.

[Risby]

I agree with Chinners. We have drawn too many games.
I think the problem lies with our options to change games. When we meet stubborn teams who park the bus, our slow, passing, build-up just isn't as effective.
We are missing some packet wingers who can take on a player and deliver a ball in to the box for the likes of Dzeko or Yaya to get on the end of.
We need alternatives. And against teams like above, if one style doesn't work, change it.

[Lee_R]

1. Van Persies goals
2. Agueros injury
3. Mancini fkn about with that stupid 3 at the back tactic

[john@staustell]

1. Van Persies goals
2. Agueros injury
3. Mancini fkn about with that stupid 3 at the back tactic

I forgot number 3. I'm a Mancini fan but my God surely we've seen the back of that shite?

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Losing Yaya for the ACON didn't do us any favours, as well.

I know it's only one player but, when he's on top of his game (and played in his best position), he is an influential figure.

Just a thought, but I wonder if Ferguscum's relative success against 'poorer' opposition is helped, in any way, by them still using their obsolescent 4-4-2 formation.

This team shape gets shown up in Europe by sides that are possibly more tactically sophisticated, as being a bit hackneyed but lower sides in the Premier League, who still use this formation themselves, get outplayed by The Scum who are better at it than them (albeit with better players).

On the other hand, there's probably no sound basis for such a thought but Mr H's fine post certainly gets the old grey matter whizzing about and potentially daft ideas can't help but surface, as a result.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Drawing matches is obviously the reason and the question remains as to why ????

The games we have drawn was down to poor attitude from our players imo , some of them seemed to have no idea what to do and Mancini needs to take the blame for that and ensure he learns from it.

[Blue Since 76]

Saw a tweet from football365 last night saying that the rags hadn't scored any goals from counter attacks. There were a few questioning it, but even assuming there's one or two, it's not just their pace on the break.

The difference has to be an inform striker, up to xmas anyway, and width. At times, when we move the ball around quickly, we can cut any team open. But when we look lethargic, it's too easy to defend against - pack the middle of the park and there's no way through. If you're up against two wingers on the touchline, you can't pack the middle as much, so even when they're not playing well, you can get balls into forwards who are in space.

Two quick wingers (or one and play with Sinclair) would give us the plan B we need. Start with the possession and if it doesn't work, open the pitch up. May even allow Dzeko to look the part

[Blue Since 76]

One more thing, and I have no facts or stats to back this up, it's more a gut feel - against the sort of teams where we've struggled, I think the rags have scored 'early', say in the first 30 mins. For the 2nd year in a row, we've scored more goals late on than anyone else, probably as we tire teams out.

I understand how we play possession football, tire teams out, look for openings and hurt them. But for a well disciplined team with a bit of luck, they can sometimes hold out. In away games, I also think Mancini likes to not concede early on and almost try and quite the crowd by giving them nothing to cheer about in attack or defence. Then we step up the tempo and try to get the goals.

At the end of last season, in those last 6 games, we seemed much more up for it from the start. Maybe in some of those tricky away games against 'easier' opposition, we should go for it for the first 15 and see what happens. If it doesn't work, grind them life out of them instead, but if we get one, our defence can usually see us through and the opposition have to chase the game, opening them up for more goals.

[getdressedmctavish]

Its simple really. On too many occasions the manager and the big players have let us down. On another note, I thought Bert was surprisingly relaxed and touchy feely last night. Maybe we're in for a change of management style, lol.

[Swales4ever]

Great thread, coming from Douglas as usual.

I must stress over and over again that the main point of City still "being in between" is the absolute unfair representation of our Strikers qualities in terms of conversion of goalscoring opportunity. And I obviously mean it in the wider way, including the countless whereas a little more experience in being focused, unselfish and accurate on the last pass would have resulted in a striker cleared on goal.
I am not complaining very much at it, as it's a natural sign of the path towards perfection, but still.... once You give yourself the mission to become best - not great, best - You should feature all the skills of the best, and being clinical in front of goal is the defining trait of a dominant side in the game of football.
It shall go with the territory, but as it now, it's hasn't come yet and it has made all the difference.
In every side of the human activities, one thing is performing from the relaxed perspective of being underdog (like City were by the starts of last season) and another . totally different - is when You must confirm to be The Champions or You must progress under the hugest spotlights of the CL stage.

It may well not been ever acknowledged on here, but it's just the plain truth and shall come indisputable as the time goes by - as the fact that Mancini is not a negative coward (at least on the evidence that the living monument of the British Football, Slur in person, has set his side to stop City and hope for the counter in the last 6 meetings of the Clubs); or as the fact that is merely impossible that Platini and accolades might succeed in stopping the Investments of Free Flowing Finance, whereas all the smartest Leaders of the world have not even tried to do it (at least on the evidence of the fact that Qatar Investment didn't bother to invest in PSG just on the FFPR starting bell).

[Themontyburns]

Great thread, coming from Douglas as usual.

I must stress over and over again that the main point of City still "being in between" is the absolute unfair representation of our Strikers qualities in terms of conversion of goalscoring opportunity. And I obviously mean it in the wider way, including the countless whereas a little more experience in being focused, unselfish and accurate on the last pass would have resulted in a striker cleared on goal.
I am not complaining very much at it, as it's a natural sign of the path towards perfection, but still.... once You give yourself the mission to become best - not great, best - You should feature all the skills of the best, and being clinical in front of goal is the defining trait of a dominant side in the game of football.
It shall go with the territory, but as it now, it's hasn't come yet and it has made all the difference.
In every side of the human activities, one thing is performing from the relaxed perspective of being underdog (like City were by the starts of last season) and another . totally different - is when You must confirm to be The Champions or You must progress under the hugest spotlights of the CL stage.

It may well not been ever acknowledged on here, but it's just the plain truth and shall come indisputable as the time goes by - as the fact that Mancini is not a negative coward (at least on the evidence that the living monument of the British Football, Slur in person, has set his side to stop City and hope for the counter in the last 6 meetings of the Clubs); or as the fact that is merely impossible that Platini and accolades might succeed in stopping the Investments of Free Flowing Finance, whereas all the smartest Leaders of the world have not even tried to do it (at least on the evidence of the fact that Qatar Investment didn't bother to invest in PSG just on the FFPR starting bell).

I love you Mancio, but every time I read your post I can help but picture this...

http://youtu.be/-SR43euEuIQ