pellegrini

[carl_feedthegoat]

Wow you cut and paste an article from the sun.

I caught him copying and pasting from a BNP message board once so the Sun is an upgrade on his normal standards.

Sadly that doesn't surprise me, he is a nasty piece of work :(

Do you want to start another war of words? now do you really?

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

I'm loving him already
He's everything we need in a manager
And not the lapdog of our Barca Old Boys that some are suggesting.

Plus his style of football sounds encouraging.
Mancini did a great job for us: brought us to the next level, and brought us those long-overdue trophies, and he's already a City legend.
But his Barca-lite 'tiki taka' had just got too tedious to watch

mmhh...

Your leap of positiveness is overwhelming, Mate.

I think I've never seen such an open credit amongst City fans...

refreshing... Vicky

The King is Dead; Long Live The New King

The Bitters will want us to turn on the new man before he's even touched down at the Etihad. Let's show some solidarity here

[Chopper]

All Im seeking is a response to the questions in bold.


Its a democracy here Carl. Not a dictatorship.

Theres a reason I refer to taggart hes been a massive pain in our side for decades. He had a disappointing season a few years ago so has mourinho yet they are both considered the top managers in the game.

Anyone who makes the Munich reference is a bit of a knob. We did lose Frank Swift on that fateful night plus a lot of kids.

Regardless of the "business model" perception, surely you would admit that replacing a manager with a lower win percentage than our current one is madness?

Do you think a manager whose only European trophy was the intertoto cup 9 years ago will do better than Mancini?

As a highly successful manager I'm sure that you look at a CV, you go off accomplishments rather than hunches right?

As you talk about the lack of emotion in smart business decisions please compare both CV's

Please give me your evaluation on both.

Look at your post again - I responded in CAPITALS above.

Thanks for the response. I understand that you dont want to go on about this for ages but could we please look at a couple of things. This is not a "I want to win at all costs" Situation. I just want to get your thoughts on what I present.

First lets look at three managers and their win %
Mark Hughes
Wales Wales September 1999 September 2004 41 12 15 14 29.27
Blackburn Rovers England 15 September 2004 3 June 2008 188 82 47 59 43.62
Manchester City England 4 June 2008 19 December 2009 77 36 15 26 46.75
Fulham England 29 July 2010 2 June 2011 43 14 16 13 32.56
QPR England 10 January 2012 23 November 2012 34 8 6 20 23.53

Total 382 151 99 132 39.53

Roberto Mancini
Fiorentina 2001 2002 27 6 5 16 22.22
Lazio 2002 2004 102 49 32 21 48.04 Internazionale 2004 2008 227 140 61 26 61.67
Manchester City 2009 2013 191 113 38 40 59.16
Total 547 308 136 103 56.31

Manuel Pellegrini
San Lorenzo Argentina 1 June 2001 26 May 2002 50 21 17 12 42.00
River Plate Argentina 30 June 2002 30 June 2003 53 35 7 11 66.04
Villarreal Spain 1 July 2004 31 May 2009 259 123 72 64 47.49
Real Madrid Spain 2 June 2009 26 May 2010 48 36 5 7 75.00
Málaga Spain 5 November 2010 Present 128 52 30 46 40.63

Total 538 267 131 140 49.63

Could we look at these win percentages. All three managers have managed with both limited resources and massive investments. Hughes has won nothing in Europe domestic or otherwise
Pellegrini won the Intertoto cup in 2004
Mancini has won:
Fiorentina
Coppa Italia (1): 2000–01
Lazio
Coppa Italia (1): 2003–04
Internazionale
Serie A (3): 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08
Coppa Italia (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2005, 2006
Manchester City
Premier League (1): 2011–12
FA Cup (1): 2010–11
FA Community Shield (1): 2012

Six managers have won the Premier league, look at their prior win percentage. It is clear that the media hates us. They were complimentary about Hughes also but we didnt win shit under him and we wont under Pellegrini. I hope to be proven wrong but I doubt I will be.

Your thoughts please

[phips]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

[Chopper]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

Heres why that statement is a little innacurate:

Pellegini's campaign saw Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaka, Karim Benzema and Xabi Alonso arrive in the summer for £271m , plus a 4-0 defeat by third-tier Alcorcon in the Spanish Cup and elimination by Lyon in the last 16 of the Champions League.

Pellegrini then moved to Malaga, who finished fourth backed by the wealth of Sheik Abdullah Al Thani and another significant spending spree of more than £50m.

[carl_feedthegoat]

All Im seeking is a response to the questions in bold.


Its a democracy here Carl. Not a dictatorship.

Theres a reason I refer to taggart hes been a massive pain in our side for decades. He had a disappointing season a few years ago so has mourinho yet they are both considered the top managers in the game.

Anyone who makes the Munich reference is a bit of a knob. We did lose Frank Swift on that fateful night plus a lot of kids.

Regardless of the "business model" perception, surely you would admit that replacing a manager with a lower win percentage than our current one is madness?

Do you think a manager whose only European trophy was the intertoto cup 9 years ago will do better than Mancini?

As a highly successful manager I'm sure that you look at a CV, you go off accomplishments rather than hunches right?

As you talk about the lack of emotion in smart business decisions please compare both CV's

Please give me your evaluation on both.

Look at your post again - I responded in CAPITALS above.

Thanks for the response. I understand that you dont want to go on about this for ages but could we please look at a couple of things. This is not a "I want to win at all costs" Situation. I just want to get your thoughts on what I present.

First lets look at three managers and their win %
Mark Hughes
Wales Wales September 1999 September 2004 41 12 15 14 29.27
Blackburn Rovers England 15 September 2004 3 June 2008 188 82 47 59 43.62
Manchester City England 4 June 2008 19 December 2009 77 36 15 26 46.75
Fulham England 29 July 2010 2 June 2011 43 14 16 13 32.56
QPR England 10 January 2012 23 November 2012 34 8 6 20 23.53

Total 382 151 99 132 39.53

Roberto Mancini
Fiorentina 2001 2002 27 6 5 16 22.22
Lazio 2002 2004 102 49 32 21 48.04 Internazionale 2004 2008 227 140 61 26 61.67
Manchester City 2009 2013 191 113 38 40 59.16
Total 547 308 136 103 56.31

Manuel Pellegrini
San Lorenzo Argentina 1 June 2001 26 May 2002 50 21 17 12 42.00
River Plate Argentina 30 June 2002 30 June 2003 53 35 7 11 66.04
Villarreal Spain 1 July 2004 31 May 2009 259 123 72 64 47.49
Real Madrid Spain 2 June 2009 26 May 2010 48 36 5 7 75.00
Málaga Spain 5 November 2010 Present 128 52 30 46 40.63

Total 538 267 131 140 49.63

Could we look at these win percentages. All three managers have managed with both limited resources and massive investments. Hughes has won nothing in Europe domestic or otherwise
Pellegrini won the Intertoto cup in 2004
Mancini has won:
Fiorentina
Coppa Italia (1): 2000–01
Lazio
Coppa Italia (1): 2003–04
Internazionale
Serie A (3): 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08
Coppa Italia (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2005, 2006
Manchester City
Premier League (1): 2011–12
FA Cup (1): 2010–11
FA Community Shield (1): 2012

Six managers have won the Premier league, look at their prior win percentage. It is clear that the media hates us. They were complimentary about Hughes also but we didnt win shit under him and we wont under Pellegrini. I hope to be proven wrong but I doubt I will be.

Your thoughts please

You know what , when all is said and done I really have no idea if Pellegrini will be a success or not. My hunch is that he will be as there are many tributes directed at him from many people,players and the like who worked with him in the past - this is the biggest indicator for me that he will be a success.

I posted the sun article about him as it made me take notice from the quotes that are there - he seems to tick all the boxes from playing young players to attacking football etc etc.

From what I have read he was wanted by Barca - they dont go for shit managers.

I think he will be a success.

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

Thanks for the response. I understand that you dont want to go on about this for ages but could we please look at a couple of things. This is not a "I want to win at all costs" Situation. I just want to get your thoughts on what I present.

First lets look at three managers and their win %
Mark Hughes
Wales Wales September 1999 September 2004 41 12 15 14 29.27
Blackburn Rovers England 15 September 2004 3 June 2008 188 82 47 59 43.62
Manchester City England 4 June 2008 19 December 2009 77 36 15 26 46.75
Fulham England 29 July 2010 2 June 2011 43 14 16 13 32.56
QPR England 10 January 2012 23 November 2012 34 8 6 20 23.53

Total 382 151 99 132 39.53

Roberto Mancini
Fiorentina 2001 2002 27 6 5 16 22.22
Lazio 2002 2004 102 49 32 21 48.04 Internazionale 2004 2008 227 140 61 26 61.67
Manchester City 2009 2013 191 113 38 40 59.16
Total 547 308 136 103 56.31

Manuel Pellegrini
San Lorenzo Argentina 1 June 2001 26 May 2002 50 21 17 12 42.00
River Plate Argentina 30 June 2002 30 June 2003 53 35 7 11 66.04
Villarreal Spain 1 July 2004 31 May 2009 259 123 72 64 47.49
Real Madrid Spain 2 June 2009 26 May 2010 48 36 5 7 75.00
Málaga Spain 5 November 2010 Present 128 52 30 46 40.63

Total 538 267 131 140 49.63

Could we look at these win percentages. All three managers have managed with both limited resources and massive investments. Hughes has won nothing in Europe domestic or otherwise
Pellegrini won the Intertoto cup in 2004
Mancini has won:
Fiorentina
Coppa Italia (1): 2000–01
Lazio
Coppa Italia (1): 2003–04
Internazionale
Serie A (3): 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08
Coppa Italia (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2005, 2006
Manchester City
Premier League (1): 2011–12
FA Cup (1): 2010–11
FA Community Shield (1): 2012

Six managers have won the Premier league, look at their prior win percentage. It is clear that the media hates us. They were complimentary about Hughes also but we didnt win shit under him and we wont under Pellegrini. I hope to be proven wrong but I doubt I will be.

Your thoughts please

It's always dangerous to use stats as the 'be all and end all' of your argument: approx. 75% of Pellegrini's management has been spent at Villareal and Malaga, 47, and 40% wins, respectively. So they're obviously going to drag down his %.
But, for starters, you have to consider - in each case: what he started with, the club's win % prior to his taking over; the funds available, etc, etc.
It's far fairer to assess what he achieved 'vis a vis' funds available, and expectations.
And in order to achieve a level playing field of comparisons, you have to factor out the impact that the funds available made to Mancini's achievements.

Real is always going to be a cess-pit for an outsider, especially if you take on the 'prima donna' royalty, who had cemented their position, and influence there. Marcus Senna has said that Pellegrini quickly set about laying down the law, following his arrival at Villareal, and he didn't care if he had to cut loose some of that club's 'royalty' to do so
(with the resultant impact on your precious stats).

For both of the two 'second-tier' Spanish clubs he managed, he quickly established them as a force: both domestically, and in Europe
That's good enough for me.

I think what ultimately caused the Board to sack Mancini was that they thought he wanted too much power: that can be a good or bad thing, of course, and generally I'm in favour of the manager having control over everything football-related, but, apparently, that's not how the Board prefers it.
They're entitled to have things their way, and we'll just have to wait and see how things develop
Either way, they're fully committed to the long-term development of the club; which can only be a good thing

[phips]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

Heres why that statement is a little innacurate:

Pellegini's campaign saw Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaka, Karim Benzema and Xabi Alonso arrive in the summer for £271m , plus a 4-0 defeat by third-tier Alcorcon in the Spanish Cup and elimination by Lyon in the last 16 of the Champions League.

Pellegrini then moved to Malaga, who finished fourth backed by the wealth of Sheik Abdullah Al Thani and another significant spending spree of more than £50m.

yeah, that's why I took out Real from the calculation. but you are right about Malaga...until this season when it becomes a little unfair and they had a fire sale.

[Socrates]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

[Swales4ever]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

You truly has a bright career as a stuntman, mate.

At least based on the acrobatic means of your argumentation.

I think to compare a win ratio achieved when developing the most hampered Club in the most competitive League, with a ratio achieved at the helm of the most biased Club of the whole world, in the less competitive league of Europe, granted problems solvers of the Tranny's calibre is just..... acrobatic.

Don't get me wrong: I wish You, Carl and all the jubilant haters will be proven right, for the sake of City, but.... the history of the man doesn't support your enthusiasm.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

So the scum have made a huge mistake have they!!

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

Agree with that.

Bring us Jose!

[Swales4ever]

From what I have read he was wanted by Barca - they dont go for shit managers.

I think he will be a success.

Carl,
You know better than me that Barca use to get what they actually want, usually at sub market prices.
Don't they bought the most coveted gem of the Premiership - Fabregas - for less than a Javi Garcia or so?

I wish You'll be proven spot on, though.
It would be piss funny to exchange positions in next years debates, even if I seriously doubt that I will ever manage to hit the flamboyant heights of your criticism of Mancini... :-)

let's get this bloody missing point tonight, first.

[xavi6]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

A record points total with Real Madrid (96 from 38 games) in La Liga says hello.

[phips]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

You truly has a bright career as a stuntman, mate.

At least based on the acrobatic means of your argumentation.

I think to compare a win ratio achieved when developing the most hampered Club in the most competitive League, with a ratio achieved at the helm of the most biased Club of the whole world, in the less competitive league of Europe, granted problems solvers of the Tranny's calibre is just..... acrobatic.

Don't get me wrong: I wish You, Carl and all the jubilant haters will be proven right, for the sake of City, but.... the history of the man doesn't support your enthusiasm.

you lost me.

[Swales4ever]

take away Man City and Real from Mancini and Pellegrini's CVs, respectively, and the latter has a better win pct.
that shows how well they actually coach without buckets of cash at their disposal, and even then Inter was already established as a great squad that has traditionally been good in Serie A.

and then if you compare Mancini's at City and Pellgrini's at Real, his Real record is better.

You truly has a bright career as a stuntman, mate.

At least based on the acrobatic means of your argumentation.

I think to compare a win ratio achieved when developing the most hampered Club in the most competitive League, with a ratio achieved at the helm of the most biased Club of the whole world, in the less competitive league of Europe, granted problems solvers of the Tranny's calibre is just..... acrobatic.

Don't get me wrong: I wish You, Carl and all the jubilant haters will be proven right, for the sake of City, but.... the history of the man doesn't support your enthusiasm.

you lost me.

you amazed me.

[Tokyo Blue]

So the scum have made a huge mistake have they!!

Maybe they have. We don't know yet, do we?

[zuricity]

my whole point was that, in my opinion, a comparison of the managers' stats isnt valid.

and im not a jubliant hater. i didnt want mancini sacked. thanks.

so phil jackson's stats can be thrown in the bin too ?

[Socrates]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

A record points total with Real Madrid (96 from 38 games) in La Liga says hello.

Gone after a year in the job says goodbye.

[xavi6]

Don't give a stuff what managers have achieved at smaller clubs with smaller budgets, we need a manager who can cut it at the top level, nothing in Pellegrini's CV says that he can, he is a huge risk and with little upside given his age, Hope we look elsewhere!

A record points total with Real Madrid (96 from 38 games) in La Liga says hello.

Gone after a year in the job says goodbye.

Which is pretty much universally seen as a stupid decision.

What we've established though is that there *is* something on his CV which says he can cut it at the top level, not to mention progress in the Champions League, so your lazy dismissal of him is simply bollox.