Premier League squad of 25

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Richard Wright has signed a new one year contract as player coach.

Is this official? Have seen no reports of this.

[Socrates]

Pretty sure Hart counts as club trained; UEFA definition being 3 years between ages of 15 and 21...

I've checked it out before, he doesn't. He was 19 when we signed him.

@Ted, nice breakdown of where we stand. Clichy does indeed count as 'association grown'. In regards leaving players out of the CL squad, that's likely to cause problems, it's best if we can go with the same squad for both or rather it's more holistic.

damn...

[Alex Sapphire]

To continue from where Wonderwall left off, I recon Maicon, Kolarov & Garcia are in danger, depending on whether Pelle rates Barry & Lescott etc for Europe or signs another CB. We are not far off as the Prem squad goes.

One rule which is identical in both Premier League & Champions Lg squad criteria is that you are allowed 17 'free' players who are not club or association trained & are over 21. So for a start, at present, that would be:

Panty

Maicon
Nastasic
Kolarov
Kompany
Zabba

Fernadinho
Navas
Nasri
Silva
Garcia
Yaya

Dzeko
Aguero
Tevez

Which is 15.

( Guidetti Razak are U21 qualified)

(I believe, but am not certain, that Clichy qualifies as an 'association trained' player) ?

Which, if true, means that we can in theory take 2 more 'foreign' players over 21 without losing any of the 17.

However ,the other 8 players have to be 'locally trained', which means either 'association trained' or 'club trained'.

For European competition, 4 of the 8 have to be 'club trained' or they would have to be included in the 17, so that is where we potentially lose squad places in Europe, if we have to include some of our 'locally trained' players in the 17.

Locally trained would be:

Clichy ?

Hart
Wright
Lescott
Richards
Barry
Milner
Rodwell
Sinclair

If we take out Wright & Sinclair that leaves 7 but only Micah is club trained, so, for Europe, we would have only 4 places left to fit 6 players in the 8 'local' places, & therefore have to add some of the 'local' players to the 17.

Clichy & Hart take one place each so that leaves 2 'local' places left for any of Barry, Milner, Rodwell, Lescott. 2 of them would have to go in the '17' which fills it.

Isco would not be counted as U21 for Europe so there's another space needed if, as likely, he signs.


Therefore, the vulnerable positions in the 17 are Kolarov, Maicon, Garcia & Panty.

If Tevez or Dzeko leave, we will sign a striker so there's no space there. If we sign an extra striker, one of Kolarov, Maicon, Garcia or Panty has to go. If we sign a 'foreign' CB, & flog Lescott, then the new player would still have to fit in the 17, so one of those 4 players still has to go.

However you look at it, at least two of Kolarov, Maicon & Garcia are on thin ice, as Panty is a keeper. You wouldn't keep any of them for the Prem if they weren't in the Euro squad

I would choose any of Panty, Milner, Barry, Lescott & Rodwell ahead of any of those for the 17 as it stands. It leaves us without cover at left back but so does Kolarov.

So if we sign a couple, it's either bye bye Lescott, Barry etc or bye bye to Kolarov, Maicon or Garcia imo.

I know what my vote would be.

This is a good summary of the situation. But worrying for Europe.
We face going into the CL with 2/3 less (club-trained) players in the squad than we're allowed (Dedryck?) and with a poor List B (when did the 2 year rule come in to stop us adding kids like Mario?)

As you say, we are also 2 light on Free players and a few of what we have may not be up to it. This may balance out with the "extra" "locally-trained" lads though, but who knows what our final 17 will look like.

Pretty crazy when you consider:
- what we've spent
- how many academy players used to make it through (I know, to a worse team)
- how much time we've had to understand and manage the rules

Fixing the Club-trained player issue and List B will take time (2/3 years by definition)
For this years competition (and there will be pressure on the new manager to progress), we will have to go in with a reduced squad.



Unless we go crazy and bring back 2 or 3 of Shauny, Ireland, Onuoha, Joey, Daniel, Schmeichel etc

[Ted Hughes]

To continue from where Wonderwall left off, I recon Maicon, Kolarov & Garcia are in danger, depending on whether Pelle rates Barry & Lescott etc for Europe or signs another CB. We are not far off as the Prem squad goes.

One rule which is identical in both Premier League & Champions Lg squad criteria is that you are allowed 17 'free' players who are not club or association trained & are over 21. So for a start, at present, that would be:

Panty

Maicon
Nastasic
Kolarov
Kompany
Zabba

Fernadinho
Navas
Nasri
Silva
Garcia
Yaya

Dzeko
Aguero
Tevez

Which is 15.

( Guidetti Razak are U21 qualified)

(I believe, but am not certain, that Clichy qualifies as an 'association trained' player) ?

Which, if true, means that we can in theory take 2 more 'foreign' players over 21 without losing any of the 17.

However ,the other 8 players have to be 'locally trained', which means either 'association trained' or 'club trained'.

For European competition, 4 of the 8 have to be 'club trained' or they would have to be included in the 17, so that is where we potentially lose squad places in Europe, if we have to include some of our 'locally trained' players in the 17.

Locally trained would be:

Clichy ?

Hart
Wright
Lescott
Richards
Barry
Milner
Rodwell
Sinclair

If we take out Wright & Sinclair that leaves 7 but only Micah is club trained, so, for Europe, we would have only 4 places left to fit 6 players in the 8 'local' places, & therefore have to add some of the 'local' players to the 17.

Clichy & Hart take one place each so that leaves 2 'local' places left for any of Barry, Milner, Rodwell, Lescott. 2 of them would have to go in the '17' which fills it.

Isco would not be counted as U21 for Europe so there's another space needed if, as likely, he signs.


Therefore, the vulnerable positions in the 17 are Kolarov, Maicon, Garcia & Panty.

If Tevez or Dzeko leave, we will sign a striker so there's no space there. If we sign an extra striker, one of Kolarov, Maicon, Garcia or Panty has to go. If we sign a 'foreign' CB, & flog Lescott, then the new player would still have to fit in the 17, so one of those 4 players still has to go.

However you look at it, at least two of Kolarov, Maicon & Garcia are on thin ice, as Panty is a keeper. You wouldn't keep any of them for the Prem if they weren't in the Euro squad

I would choose any of Panty, Milner, Barry, Lescott & Rodwell ahead of any of those for the 17 as it stands. It leaves us without cover at left back but so does Kolarov.

So if we sign a couple, it's either bye bye Lescott, Barry etc or bye bye to Kolarov, Maicon or Garcia imo.

I know what my vote would be.

This is a good summary of the situation. But worrying for Europe.
We face going into the CL with 2/3 less (club-trained) players in the squad than we're allowed (Dedryck?) and with a poor List B (when did the 2 year rule come in to stop us adding kids like Mario?)

As you say, we are also 2 light on Free players and a few of what we have may not be up to it. This may balance out with the "extra" "locally-trained" lads though, but who knows what our final 17 will look like.

Pretty crazy when you consider:
- what we've spent
- how many academy players used to make it through (I know, to a worse team)
- how much time we've had to understand and manage the rules

Fixing the Club-trained player issue and List B will take time (2/3 years by definition)
For this years competition (and there will be pressure on the new manager to progress), we will have to go in with a reduced squad.



Unless we go crazy and bring back 2 or 3 of Shauny, Ireland, Onuoha, Joey, Daniel, Schmeichel etc

That's why we've been signing so many players at youth level. We had another few years worth of mainly Championship & mid table standard players coming through, most of whom were no use to us apart from to sell on. We've been almost desperately trying to fix it, with Vieira & Marwood signing up players from all over the shop.

The young kids' teams now seem to be awash with promising players (many of them English & in fact local to Manchester) so it seems as if we are starting to get our shit together re scouting, & they are already being coached in the manner Txiki wants for the senior academy, so things look excellent there, but we have this gap to fill short term, & then we have the recent situation where Mancini had little interest in it, & has had his mate treading water & generally arsing around, doing nothing worthwhile with the players we do have.

Imo though, although the teams at EDS & senior academy level aren't great, we do now have some players, one or two of whom will start to appear in the first team in the next season or so.

I think they would benefit by playing with top players & then we actually get some idea whether they will make it or not, as opposed to seeing them in disjointed reserve teams with no direction.

*Interesting to note that Omar Ebdalloui, who we released as not good enough, would have made it easily into England's U21's even though he was playing out of position for Norway, at fullback.

That shows what a fucking mess the whole academy system is in.

[bobby brows]

Richard Wright has signed a new one year contract as player coach.

Is this official? Have seen no reports of this.

I think it was in the MEN where they were talking about players whose futures were up for discussion and it said one players whose future was settled was Wright who had signed at new 1 year deal as player-coach.

[Im_Spartacus]

That's why we've been signing so many players at youth level. We had another few years worth of mainly Championship & mid table standard players coming through, most of whom were no use to us apart from to sell on. We've been almost desperately trying to fix it, with Vieira & Marwood signing up players from all over the shop.

The young kids' teams now seem to be awash with promising players (many of them English & in fact local to Manchester) so it seems as if we are starting to get our shit together re scouting, & they are already being coached in the manner Txiki wants for the senior academy, so things look excellent there, but we have this gap to fill short term, & then we have the recent situation where Mancini had little interest in it, & has had his mate treading water & generally arsing around, doing nothing worthwhile with the players we do have.

Imo though, although the teams at EDS & senior academy level aren't great, we do now have some players, one or two of whom will start to appear in the first team in the next season or so.

I think they would benefit by playing with top players & then we actually get some idea whether they will make it or not, as opposed to seeing them in disjointed reserve teams with no direction.

*Interesting to note that Omar Ebdalloui, who we released as not good enough, would have made it easily into England's U21's even though he was playing out of position for Norway, at fullback.

That shows what a fucking mess the whole academy system is in.

Some really good analysis there mate.

Personally i would say that losing lescott is unlikely, i think pellegrini will want to keep hold of him. but Barry could leave maybe t be replaced with an english teained full back to compensate for the loss of kolarov / Maicon. That would balance the squad out somewhat and reduce the congestion of midfieldd players.

Same applies to Garcia

[Wonderwall]

Goalkeepers
Joe Hart (ENG) Costel Pantilimon (ROM) Richard Wright (ENG)

Defenders
Maicon (BRA) Matija Nastasic (SRB) Aleksandar Kolarov (SRB) Vincent Kompany (BEL) Gael Clichy (FRA) Joleon Lescott (ENG) Micah Richards (ENG) Pablo Zabaleta (ARG)

Midfielders
Fernandinho (BRA) Gareth Barry (ENG) Jesus Navas (ESP) James Milner (ENG) Samir Nasri (FRA) Abdul Razak (CIV) Jack Rodwell (ENG) David Silva (ESP) Javi Garcia (ESP) Scott Sinclair (ENG) Yaya Toure (CIV)

Strikers
Edin Dzeko (BIH) Sergio Aguero (ARG) Carlos Tevez (ARG) John Guidetti (SWE)

From this OS list we have 8 english players which we need to fulfill the quota for EUFA? Is this correct?
Hart
Wright
Richards
Lescott
Barry
Milner
Rodwell
Sinclair

If we were to lose Barry, Sinclair and Wright which is likely for latter, we would need to bring in more english talent? yes? or do we have English youth that we can add to the pool to make up the 8, or do they need to be senior players?

[Im_Spartacus]

From this OS list we have 8 english players which we need to fulfill the quota for EUFA? Is this correct?
Hart
Wright
Richards
Lescott
Barry
Milner
Rodwell
Sinclair

If we were to lose Barry, Sinclair and Wright which is likely for latter, we would need to bring in more english talent? yes? or do we have English youth that we can add to the pool to make up the 8, or do they need to be senior players?

Wright appears to be staying. Nobody will buy Sinclair injured.

Youth replacements dont necessarily need to be english, just either english trained or city trained in which case they count as english. If they are city trained AND under 21, they dont need to be registered regardless.

I think

[Alex Sapphire]

Goalkeepers
Joe Hart (ENG) Costel Pantilimon (ROM) Richard Wright (ENG)

Defenders
Maicon (BRA) Matija Nastasic (SRB) Aleksandar Kolarov (SRB) Vincent Kompany (BEL) Gael Clichy (FRA) Joleon Lescott (ENG) Micah Richards (ENG) Pablo Zabaleta (ARG)

Midfielders
Fernandinho (BRA) Gareth Barry (ENG) Jesus Navas (ESP) James Milner (ENG) Samir Nasri (FRA) Abdul Razak (CIV) Jack Rodwell (ENG) David Silva (ESP) Javi Garcia (ESP) Scott Sinclair (ENG) Yaya Toure (CIV)

Strikers
Edin Dzeko (BIH) Sergio Aguero (ARG) Carlos Tevez (ARG) John Guidetti (SWE)

From this OS list we have 8 english players which we need to fulfill the quota for EUFA? Is this correct?
Hart
Wright
Richards
Lescott
Barry
Milner
Rodwell
Sinclair

If we were to lose Barry, Sinclair and Wright which is likely for latter, we would need to bring in more english talent? yes? or do we have English youth that we can add to the pool to make up the 8, or do they need to be senior players?

Not quite like that. There ARE eight places for English-trained players, but only 4 of these can be from other clubs, so we have 3 too many (7) local imports and 3 too few (Micah) club trained players . Unless Dedryck gets back in, and then we're still light. As Ted says the extra English can go onto the "Free Players" list, so we'll just be short of our own homegrown players .

Rule is:
"eight places are reserved exclusively for “locally trained players”and no club may have more than four “association-trained players” listed on these eight places" i.e the rest must be Club-trained

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

I'd hate to lose Kolarov's left foot, despite everything .

Maicon and Sinclair are as good as gone; with Fernandinho in and Rodwell looking more and more a player, Garcia is probably looking nervously over his shoulder, also. GazBaz is getting on a bit so even if we didn't have any alternatives he mightn't make it through a full season at anything like his Championship season.
I wouldn't like to lose Lescott, Dzeko, or Carlito: if we're getting Isco in, Nasri might be on his bike; which would be a pity because the quality he displayed in the Chelsea games and at the tail-end of the season suggests that he could be as vital for us as Silva at his very best.

A name not mentioned is Micah Richards: I'm not talking about his playing potential, but his susceptibility to injuries; and genuine injuries, too, and not McTreatmentTable-aman type injuries. There just seems to have been way too many of them, dating back to when he 'bulked up'. I don't know whether anything can be done to 'unbulk' him

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I'd hate to lose Kolarov's left foot, despite everything .

Maicon and Sinclair are as good as gone; with Fernandinho in and Rodwell looking more and more a player, Garcia is probably looking nervously over his shoulder, also. GazBaz is getting on a bit so even if we didn't have any alternatives he mightn't make it through a full season at anything like his Championship season.
I wouldn't like to lose Lescott, Dzeko, or Carlito: if we're getting Isco in, Nasri might be on his bike; which would be a pity because the quality he displayed in the Chelsea games and at the tail-end of the season suggests that he could be as vital for us as Silva at his very best.

A name not mentioned is Micah Richards: I'm not talking about his playing potential, but his susceptibility to injuries; and genuine injuries, too, and not McTreatmentTable-aman type injuries. There just seems to have been way too many of them, dating back to when he 'bulked up'. I don't know whether anything can be done to 'unbulk' him

If Kolarov were to leave, I wonder if the new manager would wish to retain Lescott, to be switched between centre-back and left-back as the team situation demanded.

Playing some games at left-back might not be quite to Lescott's liking but, in order to get additional game time he might have to 'bite the bullet' and, although we would lose attacking potential with him on the flank, defensively we would/should be more stable.

Interesting thoughts about Micah and I wonder if a different training regime, under a new Manager, might, somehow, benefit him. From a team perspective, however, if his injuries still keep occurring, Nastasic might find himself having to do a 'Lescott' on the right hand side and, with regard to the full back situations as a whole, the defence - especially the two central positions - might see a lot of changes, from one game to another in the forthcoming season, unless someone such as Milner is drafted in for further cover on both flanks.

[Saul Goodman]

A little off-topic, should we be worried about the home-grown quota thing? Tbh I have no idea what the regulations are
but we just lost Wright (Eng) and picked up Navas (Spa) and Fernandinho (Bra)...although I guess we dropped Kolo (CIV) too.

But with us looking to add Isco could we have to figure out something to stock up on English players?

[Slim]

3 Keepers: Hart, Costel, Wright.
8 Defenders: Micah, Zabaleta, Nastasic, Kompany, Lescott, Kolarov, Clichy, +1CB.
8 midfielders: Navas, Nasri, Milner, Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Silva, Sinclair.
4 strikers: Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez, Guidetti.

=22(Nastasic does not have to be registered in this group as he is under 21.)

Not on list: Barry, Maicon, Garcia, Razak.

So far with everyone in the first team right now, we could register all of them and still have space left over for another centrehalf.

Homegrown in the Premier League rules only states 8 players trained in England, club trained is a UEFA thing for the Champions League, under that list Hart, Wright, Micah, Lescott, Clichy, Milner, Rodwell, Sinclair and Guidetti would cover it.

[Saul Goodman]

Homegrown in the Premier League rules only states 8 players trained in England, club trained is a UEFA thing for the Champions League, under that list Hart, Wright, Micah, Lescott, Clichy, Milner, Rodwell, Sinclair and Guidetti would cover it.

well then we'd better not sell Lescott and/or Sinclair. Plus, didnt we release Wright?

[Dameerto]

I don't think so, someone said he'd signed for another twelve months (was a post on here about it anyway, I haven't been looking anywhere else for it)

[Slim]

Homegrown in the Premier League rules only states 8 players trained in England, club trained is a UEFA thing for the Champions League, under that list Hart, Wright, Micah, Lescott, Clichy, Milner, Rodwell, Sinclair and Guidetti would cover it.

well then we'd better not sell Lescott and/or Sinclair. Plus, didnt we release Wright?

I thought he just signed a one year extension as player-coach and signing Isco wouldn't harm it as he's 20, including Barry in the squad takes us to 10, so I think we could probably switch out a couple. I certainly hope Wright is a better coach than he is a player though, seeing him in those friendlies in the US was embarrassing.

[BlueinBosnia]

Worst case scenario - re-sign Weaver on £3-4k per week to be our third choice for Europe - club-trained quota, and he's a free agent.

[Blue Blood]

Worst case scenario - re-sign Weaver on £3-4k per week to be our third choice for Europe - club-trained quota, and he's a free agent.

Worst case... that is a best case for me.

Weaver is a hero.

[BlueinBosnia]

Worst case scenario - re-sign Weaver on £3-4k per week to be our third choice for Europe - club-trained quota, and he's a free agent.

Worst case... that is a best case for me.

Weaver is a hero.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it too. Just raising the point that it would be a (in my opinion) viable option to alleviate homegrown issues for the Champs' League.

[Ted Hughes]

3 Keepers: Hart, Costel, Wright.
8 Defenders: Micah, Zabaleta, Nastasic, Kompany, Lescott, Kolarov, Clichy, +1CB.
8 midfielders: Navas, Nasri, Milner, Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Silva, Sinclair.
4 strikers: Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez, Guidetti.

=22(Nastasic does not have to be registered in this group as he is under 21.)

Not on list: Barry, Maicon, Garcia, Razak.

So far with everyone in the first team right now, we could register all of them and still have space left over for another centrehalf.

Homegrown in the Premier League rules only states 8 players trained in England, club trained is a UEFA thing for the Champions League, under that list Hart, Wright, Micah, Lescott, Clichy, Milner, Rodwell, Sinclair and Guidetti would cover it.

The problem is that, in the Champions League, neither Nastasic nor Isco will count as U21 (as they have to be at the club for several years) Hart isn't 'club produced' so we also lose 3 places out of the Premier League 'homegrown' list, as only Micah from last season's squad, counts.

As it stands we have to tell several players that they can't play Champions League. Many people on here with no respect for Barry & Lescott will just say 'simple' drop them along with Garcia perhaps etc. Then we have only two recognised cbs in the Champions League squad & not one genuine defensive mid.

If we sign replacements for Lescott & Barry, we lose two more players out of the Chmps Lg squad to make way.

How many of the squad are happy to stay, purely for the occasional Prem & Cup game ?

This is not going to be easy, & shows why it's actually a neccessity to start producing genuine 'homegrown' players.