pellegrini

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Re: pellegrini

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:08 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:wow a thread actually talking footbollox. oops how un pc of me, sorry girls. It is quite refreshing not having a clue what the new guy is going to bring. On the Yaya bit I hope he sets him a role further forward ffs, we all know that is the only place to play him. Ideally I'd play him for 60 mins from a start or 30 at the end depending depending.


I'd be interested in seeing the two deep midfielders taking it in turn to support the attack, very much as in a more fluid system such as you suggest. That would give Yaya the licence he needs, whilst maintaining a big presence at the back. When Yaya has played in a more advanced role, I think he loses soemthing in not being able to gather the head of steam and panic he causes when he attacks from our own half with the ball


I just hope we heed what has once again happened to Spain tonight, & don't go down the wrong road just as everyone else is sussing out how to stop it. We need to be adapting it for the future & be the thing that happens next, not a Spain 'tribute' band.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Alex Sapphire » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:15 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:wow a thread actually talking footbollox. oops how un pc of me, sorry girls. It is quite refreshing not having a clue what the new guy is going to bring. On the Yaya bit I hope he sets him a role further forward ffs, we all know that is the only place to play him. Ideally I'd play him for 60 mins from a start or 30 at the end depending depending.


I'd be interested in seeing the two deep midfielders taking it in turn to support the attack, very much as in a more fluid system such as you suggest. That would give Yaya the licence he needs, whilst maintaining a big presence at the back. When Yaya has played in a more advanced role, I think he loses soemthing in not being able to gather the head of steam and panic he causes when he attacks from our own half with the ball


I just hope we heed what has once again happened to Spain tonight, & don't go down the wrong road just as everyone else is sussing out how to stop it. We need to be adapting it for the future & be the thing that happens next, not a Spain 'tribute' band.


Ted Hughes wrote:
Alex Sapphire wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Ok.
Calm the fuck down all of you. There's a legit conversation to be had about Soriano. Wooders gave the punch, no need to gang up and kick a man on the deck.


first sensible post in this thread for a while.

OT:
is anyone even slightly coincerned that we are planning a style of play from cradle to first team that has just been found out by the Germans, and that by the time the kids get through to the first team will be as popular as Roy Hodgsons 4-4-2?


No, because we aren't, they have made this perfectly clear.

The system we are employing is not there to dictate how the 1st team should play, it is being done because they believe it is the best way to train the kids to prepare them to be able to adapt to any given system the first team uses, so if we decided the first team was to play like 'the Germans' the kids would be equally adept at that as they would be playing like Barca.

Imo, 'the Germans' will just be competitors in Europe anyway, not the dominating force some bollox media people have suggested.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:26 am

Plan bzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzz

What a fucking age old cliche. His "plan B" worked pretty well against QPR didn't it? When people start to go against manager it's always the fucking "plan B" card that gets thrown in. Generally what I assume most people mean by it is that when we are behind, manager does something to change the game plan. To react to ongoing situation. I thought overall Mancini did pretty well in that department. He often changed formations early in the game if it wasn't working out. Thing is that when there's 20 minutes left on the clock and you are behind, the odds are already against you no matter what you do. Mancini did pretty good job fighting those odds usually.

His realy shortcoming was the idiotic experiments with wingback system.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Twobob » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:35 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Plan bzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzz

What a fucking age old cliche. His "plan B" worked pretty well against QPR didn't it? When people start to go against manager it's always the fucking "plan B" card that gets thrown in. Generally what I assume most people mean by it is that when we are behind, manager does something to change the game plan. To react to ongoing situation. I thought overall Mancini did pretty well in that department. He often changed formations early in the game if it wasn't working out. Thing is that when there's 20 minutes left on the clock and you are behind, the odds are already against you no matter what you do. Mancini did pretty good job fighting those odds usually.

His realy shortcoming was the idiotic experiments with wingback system.


What caught people out is that at first he generally tried to plug the hole that was causing us to lose, often bringing a defensive minded mid on - that queued the 'We're # down and he's doing what?!' comments, but once he'd shored it up a little then he'd bring on more attacking players. Then he started trying to get too complicated and use that Wingback system and it all went to shite in a basket.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:41 am

Twobob wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Plan bzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzz

What a fucking age old cliche. His "plan B" worked pretty well against QPR didn't it? When people start to go against manager it's always the fucking "plan B" card that gets thrown in. Generally what I assume most people mean by it is that when we are behind, manager does something to change the game plan. To react to ongoing situation. I thought overall Mancini did pretty well in that department. He often changed formations early in the game if it wasn't working out. Thing is that when there's 20 minutes left on the clock and you are behind, the odds are already against you no matter what you do. Mancini did pretty good job fighting those odds usually.

His realy shortcoming was the idiotic experiments with wingback system.


What caught people out is that at first he generally tried to plug the hole that was causing us to lose, often bringing a defensive minded mid on - that queued the 'We're # down and he's doing what?!' comments, but once he'd shored it up a little then he'd bring on more attacking players. Then he started trying to get too complicated and use that Wingback system and it all went to shite in a basket.


That's exactly how I saw it as well. We were usually losing the control of the game so he brought in someone to take control again and then, usually after five or ten minutes when we had gained control again he'd bring in attacker. He just wasn't one of those managers who brings in three guys at the same time and change the whole game plan at once. Bring them in one at the time so you don't have half the team bedding to the game. I thought that was generally pretty good approach.

The wingback thing was jus horrible and I will never know what he was thinking with it.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Slim » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:22 am

Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?
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Re: pellegrini

Postby blues-clues » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:23 am

Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Another manager with a load of "hangers on". Manuel has bought his twin brother with him.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Twobob » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:24 am

blues-clues wrote:
Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Another manager with a load of "hangers on". Manuel has bought his twin brother with him.


Is he haggling withthe driver about how much it is to get back to Oldham?
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Re: pellegrini

Postby blues-clues » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:32 am

Twobob wrote:Is he haggling with the driver about how much it is to get back to Oldham?


No mate we are debating how The Count has managed to create the impression of a reflection in the taxi window.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:33 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
Twobob wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Plan bzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzz

What a fucking age old cliche. His "plan B" worked pretty well against QPR didn't it? When people start to go against manager it's always the fucking "plan B" card that gets thrown in. Generally what I assume most people mean by it is that when we are behind, manager does something to change the game plan. To react to ongoing situation. I thought overall Mancini did pretty well in that department. He often changed formations early in the game if it wasn't working out. Thing is that when there's 20 minutes left on the clock and you are behind, the odds are already against you no matter what you do. Mancini did pretty good job fighting those odds usually.

His realy shortcoming was the idiotic experiments with wingback system.


What caught people out is that at first he generally tried to plug the hole that was causing us to lose, often bringing a defensive minded mid on - that queued the 'We're # down and he's doing what?!' comments, but once he'd shored it up a little then he'd bring on more attacking players. Then he started trying to get too complicated and use that Wingback system and it all went to shite in a basket.


That's exactly how I saw it as well. We were usually losing the control of the game so he brought in someone to take control again and then, usually after five or ten minutes when we had gained control again he'd bring in attacker. He just wasn't one of those managers who brings in three guys at the same time and change the whole game plan at once. Bring them in one at the time so you don't have half the team bedding to the game. I thought that was generally pretty good approach.

The wingback thing was jus horrible and I will never know what he was thinking with it.


In other words he sometimes lacked the bottle to make the kind of changes neccessary to change the game, preferring to play safe first each time & when he did decide on a plan, it was sometimes the wrong one, which is prettty much what we've just said.

The plan B system everyone was talking about was for the games where we just kept running down the middle trying to thread passes through the centre of a ten man defence & getting nowhere. People wanted to see width. Not wingbacks; proper wide players giving the defence a new problem to deal with. We had one basic wide move, play it to the corner of the box, wait for Silva to play a dummy inside then he instead turned it round the corner & Richards, Zabba, Milner overlapped & put the ball accross the box.

We took the rags to the cleaners with it & the whole Premier League was shocked to the core. So they worked on stopping it & pretty much succeeded straight away. So instead, you get players running at the fullbacks & going outside & give them a whole new problem to worry about right ? Then they will forget to stop the original plan ? Nope, we just carried on doing the same thing over & over & were still doing it the day he left. The wingback system ended up relying on the very same pass round the corner that teams had already sussed before we used it, but now they could catch us out easier when we lost the ball.

It was uninspired. Bob should have done better & used the talent at his disposal to find another, most likely much simpler, way.

I don't know for sure if Pellegrini is going to implement a successful plan B or whether he will just have us banging our heads against a brick wall as well, in which case he will most likely be gone by this time next year, but his first two signings are both players who are good at exploiting exactly that kind of plan.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Dronny » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:38 am

Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Should there really be an image in the van window if we believe what we're told?
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Re: pellegrini

Postby johnny crossan » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:40 am

Dronny wrote:
Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Should there really be an image in the van window if we believe what we're told?
it's Harry Worth reincarnated!
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Slim » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:45 am

Dronny wrote:
Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Should there really be an image in the van window if we believe what we're told?


That's what I meant.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:50 am

Photoshopped.

We see this:

Image

But in the original, there is no van, just a woman in a nightdress & it looks something like this:

Image
Last edited by Ted Hughes on Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Twobob » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:01 am

blues-clues wrote:
Twobob wrote:Is he haggling with the driver about how much it is to get back to Oldham?


No mate we are debating how The Count has managed to create the impression of a reflection in the taxi window.


Haha I know that much, but during the supposed 'reflection' which cannot be, is he haggling over a price? I reccon he is yanno - no night out is complete without trying to hagle a taxi driver down.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Slim » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:08 am

Ted Hughes wrote:Photoshopped.

We see this:

Image

But in the original, there is no van, just a woman in a nightdress & it looks something like this:

Image


She's in a nightdress in that bathtub?
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Ted Hughes » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:19 am

Slim wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Photoshopped.

We see this:

Image

But in the original, there is no van, just a woman in a nightdress & it looks something like this:

Image


She's in a nightdress in that bathtub?


No, in that picture she is in a bathtub. It would be unusual if she took the bathtub outdoors with her & quite strenuous & time consuming.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:35 am

Ted Hughes wrote: In other words he sometimes lacked the bottle to make the kind of changes neccessary to change the game, preferring to play safe first each time & when he did decide on a plan, it was sometimes the wrong one, which is prettty much what we've just said.



I didn't think lacked the bottle to make changes. Not at all. It's just that you are not going to end up winning every game where you are 0-1 down and have 20 minutes to go. That simply doesn't always happen. You take certain chances at that stage and sometimes they pay off and other times they don't. It's the same with EVERY manager. Difference between good and bad manager is how OFTEN he is able to turn the games around and Mancini did that often enough to warrant him being called good manager.

In fact, I think Mancini's problem was little bit the opposite you are claiming. I think he had numerous different tactical base ideas and variants. One of his main problems was that he needed to be constantly tinkering with his tactics never to be fully satisfied. After league winning season we were (clearly) moving to right direction. Instead of just taking where we left off following season he started to make changes like the Wingback system and experimenting with different variations of three man midfield (both narrow and wide) and different variations of three up front ( two CF's with one guy playing off them, three man wide with one CF and two guys very wide etc). In lot of times he seemed to overthink the whole gameplan. There was also the massive mistake of thinking that he has room to operate and make these expirements after winning the title.

So all in all, I strongly disagree that he didn't have "plan B". His faults were elsewhere.
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Bianchi on Ice » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:55 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
Slim wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Photoshopped.

We see this:

Image

But in the original, there is no van, just a woman in a nightdress & it looks something like this:

Image


She's in a nightdress in that bathtub?


No, in that picture she is in a bathtub. It would be unusual if she took the bathtub outdoors with her & quite strenuous & time consuming.


A woman of true virtue would have her nightdress on in the bathtub. The sight of her nipples protruding when she emerged would make any red blooded male want to bite the daylights out of her...let alone a 500 year old south american vampire football coach....who it turns out has a reflection...dont be fooled mmmmmwahhahaha
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Re: pellegrini

Postby Dronny » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:02 am

Slim wrote:
Dronny wrote:
Slim wrote:Image

HOW THE FUCK DID HE DO THAT?


Should there really be an image in the van window if we believe what we're told?


That's what I meant.


I know!! Sometimes you have to spell it out for folks ;-)
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