"Football's suicide secret"

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"Football's suicide secret"

Postby Dameerto » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:06 pm

Clarke Carlisle just went up in my estimation. I remember we've had a couple of threads about the problem of depression in football/former footballers over the years (at the time of, and also after Enke's death) and my own personal view is that it's hugely irresponsible of football in this country to ignore the problem or to pay it lip service without actually DOING SOMETHING about it. There's a program on at 9pm tonight on BBC3 called "Football's Suicide Secret" and it is particularly interesting to hear that the Germans HAVE done something about it.

Here's the article by Clarke on the Beeb's news site:

" Everyone else thought I'd made it, that I had the dream life. And I did.

I was a 21-year-old professional footballer for QPR and the England Under-21s. I had a nice flat, a nice car and a loving family.

My irrational mind had made me think suicide was a rational action though.
Find out more

Watch Football's Suicide Secret on BBC Three at 21:00 BST on Tuesday, 9 July

So I went to a park near my home in Acton armed with lots of painkillers and thought "I'm going to take all these pills and kill myself, because I'm no use to anyone".

I'd just suffered a severe knee injury and had convinced myself that without football people would see me for what I really was, which was nothing.

I sat on a bench in that park, washed the pills down with a can of beer, and waited for it to happen. In the end I was incredibly lucky, because my girlfriend found me and I was rushed to hospital in time to have my stomach pumped.

I survived and didn't tell another soul about the incident for years and didn't ask for any help. I just locked this suicide attempt away in Pandora's box.

I go back to this spot in my BBC Three documentary, Football's Suicide Secret.

As you'll see, it was horrible to go back there, I couldn't stand it. It was awful to think something so strong could have come over me to make me lose sight of all the good in my life.

I thought about what I could have missed out on - the great relationship with my daughter, meeting my wife - and I was so ashamed.

That's why speaking to Gary Speed's sister Lesley was such a profound moment, an epiphany in fact. Speaking to her made me see what I could have put my own family through.

I saw the butterfly effect, how the lives of Gary's parents, children, wife, neighbours and the wider football community were all traumatised by his decision to take his own life.

It's the first time Lesley has spoken publicly about Gary's death. She says that if someone had asked her whether Gary was suffering from depression before that, she would have said absolutely not.

"He hid it from us and it stopped him asking for help," she tells me. Yet still she regrets not having been able to help him. "We were just so sad that we couldn't help him through," she says. "That's a huge regret that I didn't get him to one side and say 'is everything alright?'"

I know only too well that most depressives are great actors who can put on a different persona, a facade. What you need to be able to do is open up, yet the cruelty of the illness is that it won't let you.

Working on the documentary was very cathartic. I spoke to other professional footballers who have suffered in silence with depression, and I now believe there are hundreds of pros and ex-pros who are suffering from the illness, even though they might not know it.

I spoke to former Aston Villa and England midfielder Lee Hendrie, who was earning £40,000 a week and owned £10m worth of properties at the peak of his career. "I thought this is it, this is where I want to be," he tells me.

Yet his life unravelled when he was declared bankrupt after defaulting on a number of mortgages.

"I felt like the whole world had fallen down on top of me and said to myself 'I cannot go on,'" he says.

Germany have put impressive measures in place following the suicide of German international Robert Enke

Twice he took overdoses of sleeping pills but, like me, was found and survived. "To be there and feel that massive drop to the bottom was horrible," he says.

Former Norwich striker Leon McKenzie also tried to kill himself after a serious injury coincided with the the breakdown of his marriage and family.

As chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association, I was shocked to hear that Leon had phoned my organisation to talk about his depression yet had not been given an understanding response.

It was very telling that neither Lee nor Leon felt they could talk to anyone about their problems.

I didn't actually realise I was depressive until a few years ago, when my wife was diagnosed with post-natal depression. I'd told her to 'get a grip' and reminded her that we had a great house, great car, lovely kids etc etc.

Then I was told about Goldberg's depression test. I looked at the checklist and soon understood what she was going through. I also realised 'that's me'. When I took the test, the result came through that I was suffering from severe depression.
Leon McKenzie

Former Norwich striker Leon McKenzie has rebuilt his life and taken up a career in boxing

Suddenly this realisation made sense of a lot of things I'd done in my life and drove me to find out as much as I could about the illness. As chairman of the PFA I also felt a sense of responsibility to help my fellow pros.

I have a very strong body, yet it can still break down, and the mind is the same. Depression is a mental injury that needs diagnosing and treating.

You've got to find the triggers, analyse them and then reduce the chances of a depressive episode. If people are educated about depression, they have a better chance of understanding the triggers, spotting the signs of depression and doing something about it - whether in themselves or others.

They can stop the slide by having a conversation and then seeking out counselling. It's all about knowledge and education.

We need forensic research about the potential triggers for depression. For example when a player retires, his chances of getting clinical depression go up 40%. Other common triggers are injury, being transferred, the inability to separate home and work life. Yet I must also point out that there is often no logical trigger because depression is an indiscriminate illness.

I travelled to Germany and was very impressed by the mechanisms they have in place to tackle depression following the suicide of Robert Enke in 2009. Every professional club has access to psychiatric treatment, there is a 24-hour hotline for players who think they might be suffering from depression and the Robert Enke Foundation tries to raise awareness of mental illness.

The situation in this country needs to catch up fast. Suicide is the biggest killer of young men of 18 to 35 and I firmly believe the majority can be prevented.

As part of the programme I took all my findings to FA chairman David Bernstein and said "what are you going to do?" He admitted the issue had been neglected and said he wants to tackle the stigma surrounding mental health issues because "the very nature of the problem is that it tends to be kept quiet".

Football needs to tackle this in a co-ordinated way and I'm determined to help make that happen.

Watch Football's Suicide Secret on BBC Three at 21:00 BST on Tuesday, 9 July "
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby DoomMerchant » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:48 pm

fantastic stuff.

Some might sit on the sidelines, in a onesie, and say "Man the fuck up bro!"

However, most of us realize that depression is real and probably the most horrific thing you can imagine.

thanks for sharing.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Wonderwall » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:49 pm

Cheers mate I am away tonight but will get that on iplayer. Sounds a very interesting programme. I agree about Carlisle too. Well done to him for doing this
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby ashton287 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:25 pm

DoomMerchant wrote:fantastic stuff.

Some might sit on the sidelines, in a onesie, and say "Man the fuck up bro!"

However, most of us realize that depression is real and probably the most horrific thing you can imagine.

thanks for sharing.


Being rich as fuck and having opportunities 99.9995% of the world dream about but feeling too sorry for yourself to go on living is the most horrific thing you can imagine?.

Yeah I can think of at least 3 things worse than that.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby gillie » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:33 pm

ashton287 wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:fantastic stuff.

Some might sit on the sidelines, in a onesie, and say "Man the fuck up bro!"

However, most of us realize that depression is real and probably the most horrific thing you can imagine.

thanks for sharing.


Being rich as fuck and having opportunities 99.9995% of the world dream about but feeling too sorry for yourself to go on living is the most horrific thing you can imagine?.

Yeah I can think of at least 3 things worse than that.

I reckon Doomy should take up fishing.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Wonderwall » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:38 pm

Really gillie, after x thousand posts and you think he doesnt do fishing lol
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby gillie » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:50 pm

Wonderwall wrote:Really gillie, after x thousand posts and you think he doesnt do fishing lol

Alright Bob i suppose i should have said Ashton is a fish coz he took the bait hook line and sinker.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby I Just Blue Myself » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:56 pm

gillie wrote:
Wonderwall wrote:Really gillie, after x thousand posts and you think he doesnt do fishing lol

Alright Bob i suppose i should have said Ashton is a fish coz he took the bait hook line and sinker.

I don't quite understand. Please elaborate.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Twobob » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Theres a program been on over the last few weeks about kids in a phsyciactric place up here, been onteresting how they get kids to deal with it, some have admitted themselves but others have been sectioned.

Last night there was a lad who attended a rugby school, was a top player but the pressures he put himself under manifested in voices in his head, depression and feeling that the only way out was to kill himself.

Fortunately they got through to him and they realised that being at a specialist boarding school was not right, he had self doubts and these manifested themselves over time into a mental illness.

Footballers and other pro sports people are nurtured and kept away from our day to day pressures but the pressure they put themselves under, the competitive ego and desire to excel are a great burden when it looks like it may all be lost.

It isn't the money, it impacts players on thousands and those on a few hundred - the causes of depression even in non-sports people tend to be thing that aren't associate with wealth but with how your ego and coping mechanisms are handling things in a world where you think no one else understands what your going through.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby gillie » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:11 pm

Twobob wrote:Theres a program been on over the last few weeks about kids in a phsyciactric place up here, been onteresting how they get kids to deal with it, some have admitted themselves but others have been sectioned.

Last night there was a lad who attended a rugby school, was a top player but the pressures he put himself under manifested in voices in his head, depression and feeling that the only way out was to kill himself.

Fortunately they got through to him and they realised that being at a specialist boarding school was not right, he had self doubts and these manifested themselves over time into a mental illness.

Footballers and other pro sports people are nurtured and kept away from our day to day pressures but the pressure they put themselves under, the competitive ego and desire to excel are a great burden when it looks like it may all be lost.

It isn't the money, it impacts players on thousands and those on a few hundred - the causes of depression even in non-sports people tend to be thing that aren't associate with wealth but with how your ego and coping mechanisms are handling things in a world where you think no one else understands what your going through.

Great post Twobob mate
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby ashton287 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:14 pm

gillie wrote:Alright Bob i suppose i should have said Ashton is a fish coz he took the bait hook line and sinker.


It's not really fishing if it is a targeted post though is it?.

Plus he fucking loves me, he'd be depressed if I didn't reply. If depression was a real thing.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Wonderwall » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:18 pm

ashton287 wrote:
It's not really fishing if it is a targeted post though is it?.

Plus he fucking loves me, he'd be depressed if I didn't reply. If depression was a real thing.


Touché
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:37 pm

Twobob wrote:Theres a program been on over the last few weeks about kids in a phsyciactric place up here, been onteresting how they get kids to deal with it, some have admitted themselves but others have been sectioned.

Last night there was a lad who attended a rugby school, was a top player but the pressures he put himself under manifested in voices in his head, depression and feeling that the only way out was to kill himself.

Fortunately they got through to him and they realised that being at a specialist boarding school was not right, he had self doubts and these manifested themselves over time into a mental illness.

Footballers and other pro sports people are nurtured and kept away from our day to day pressures but the pressure they put themselves under, the competitive ego and desire to excel are a great burden when it looks like it may all be lost.

It isn't the money, it impacts players on thousands and those on a few hundred - the causes of depression even in non-sports people tend to be thing that aren't associate with wealth but with how your ego and coping mechanisms are handling things in a world where you think no one else understands what your going through.

Very good post mate. I like Carlisle in a way but he just comes across as very false. You can see his passion there but it always turns to him and his own personal stuff.

Suidide is a nasty business and affects those that usualyl have no idea of what's going on. The truth is that these lads usually come from a background that would really impact on a normal career; throw them into some sort of limelight or forceful transition then it's probably a recipy for disaster. It's not exclusive, it's a social issue.

It's so sad to see people go through the turmoil, and even worse to see the after effecs.

Just sad.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Lee_R » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:02 pm

Q is.. how would Jolean have felt if we didnt win the league?
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Lee_R wrote:Q is.. how would Jolean have felt if we didnt win the league?

End thread.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Lee_R » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:
Lee_R wrote:Q is.. how would Jolean have felt if we didnt win the league?

End thread.


Sorry yeah that was a bit of an unthoughtful comment.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby DoomMerchant » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:02 pm

ashton287 wrote:
It's not really fishing if it is a targeted post though is it?.

Plus he fucking loves me, he'd be depressed if I didn't reply. If depression was a real thing.


But since it isn't, I couldn't be.
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby Dameerto » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:34 am

DoomMerchant wrote:fantastic stuff.

Some might sit on the sidelines, in a onesie, and say "Man the fuck up bro!"

However, most of us realize that depression is real and probably the most horrific thing you can imagine.

thanks for sharing.


Probably the same kind of people who use homosexuality as an insult - hopefully within a generation or two those fossils will have died out and the human gene pool might just have improved a bit.

"Cheers".
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby phips » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:33 am

ashton287 wrote:If depression was a real thing.

i cant tell if youre serious or not...
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Re: "Football's suicide secret"

Postby ashton287 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:41 am

phips wrote:i cant tell if youre serious or not...


Deadly serious.
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