Rekik

[Bridge'srightfoot]

We should recall him if we can from his loan because Nasty is injured and we may need him as back up

We can't.

He isn't good enough even if we could.

But he is starting to show some of the aggressive defending which impressed me when he first signed. He looked miles stronger than Savic two years ago but has looked comparitively weak since. As a relative shortarse in comparison, he will have to be exceptionally strong & aggressive in his defending if he wants to play centre back in the Prem.

I seem to remember a shortish centrehalf playing very well for an entire season alongside Richard Dunne, strong and aggressive, jumps like a salmon. Wonder if he'd be up for a move to the middle.

Exactly.

When people talk about 'potential' in players such as Nastasic, I wonder how it stacks up compared to Micah completely having Henry in his fucking pocket at a young age. Doing him for pace etc. Then he jumps a foot higher, is harder, better at tackling than Nastasic but has hardly played a game at centre back in years. He even thinks himself that he is better at centre back.

If we are talking potential centre backs, why don't we re-educate Micah to play there ? If he drops a bollock, give him the same leeway as Nastasic, & see who gets the job in the end. Maybe both would end up playing together in a couple of years ?

Don't like Micah at centre back. He did have some great games initially but a lot of the time he was poor prepositionally and only saved himself due to his pace. He got found out the next season and didn't look convincing at all there. Doesn't have the reading of the game that someone like Kompany has.

Plus he's great at bombing down the wing where he can cause problems for the opposition.

[Saul Goodman]

Rekik (and partner Bruma) got called up for a Dutch friendly

[Avalon]

Rekik (and partner Bruma) got called up for a Dutch friendly

That means nothing. The Netherlands don't have a lot of options in defence and they come with a name, as they were rated very highly. That however, has dropped off quite a bit. Vlaar, Matthijsen, de Vrij, Martens Indi are clear favourite choices.
Funny sidenote, all of them are current Feyenoord players (minus Vlaar who left Feyenoord for Aston Villa) and Bruma and Rekik left Feyenoord at the age of 16. Simply imagine how good they could have been had they stayed at Feyenoord.
De Vrij and Martens Indi are both 21 and key to Feyenoord. Bruma is 21 as well and Rekik is 18. Just imagine how much experience they would have had if they hadn't left Feyenoord, or if City had send him back right after buying him.

Seriously, De Vrij is 21 and has played 103 games for Feyenoord. Rekik is three years younger, but only has 15 competitive games under his belt. In contrast, Bruma is 21 as well and has 55 or so games under his belt. The Dutch (and Spanish for that matter) know how to treat their talent, hence there's always young talent coming through the ranks.

I know I am one of those that keeps being pessismistic on Rekik, but that's because I have seen this all too often with Dutch talent which gets poached away when they're 15/16 years old.
Here's a good article on it: http://www.benefoot.net/young-talents-a ... gue-dream/

According to that article, four players left Feyenoord and they instead find new young talent to cover the loss.

And to further emphasize - how many players does the Dutch team have (or had) that were big Dutch players whom left de Eredivisie when they were 16? Look at all their greats and you'll find... maybe a couple. Even Haisselbaink couldn't cut it in the Dutch national team.

[Ted Hughes]

Rekik (and partner Bruma) got called up for a Dutch friendly

That means nothing. The Netherlands don't have a lot of options in defence and they come with a name, as they were rated very highly. That however, has dropped off quite a bit. Vlaar, Matthijsen, de Vrij, Martens Indi are clear favourite choices.
Funny sidenote, all of them are current Feyenoord players (minus Vlaar who left Feyenoord for Aston Villa) and Bruma and Rekik left Feyenoord at the age of 16. Simply imagine how good they could have been had they stayed at Feyenoord.
De Vrij and Martens Indi are both 21 and key to Feyenoord. Bruma is 21 as well and Rekik is 18. Just imagine how much experience they would have had if they hadn't left Feyenoord, or if City had send him back right after buying him.

Seriously, De Vrij is 21 and has played 103 games for Feyenoord. Rekik is three years younger, but only has 15 competitive games under his belt. In contrast, Bruma is 21 as well and has 55 or so games under his belt. The Dutch (and Spanish for that matter) know how to treat their talent, hence there's always young talent coming through the ranks.

I know I am one of those that keeps being pessismistic on Rekik, but that's because I have seen this all too often with Dutch talent which gets poached away when they're 15/16 years old.
Here's a good article on it: http://www.benefoot.net/young-talents-a ... gue-dream/

According to that article, four players left Feyenoord and they instead find new young talent to cover the loss.

And to further emphasize - how many players does the Dutch team have (or had) that were big Dutch players whom left de Eredivisie when they were 16? Look at all their greats and you'll find... maybe a couple. Even Haisselbaink couldn't cut it in the Dutch national team.

I don't know if he can cut it in the Dutch national team compared to what they have got, but unfortunately he doesn't look to me as if he will ever be a centre back for City. Whether he could become a fullback or a defensive mid, I don't know, he is confident on the ball, but a Premier League centre back has to cope with both pace & aerial strength. He is lacking in both areas.

I have been keeping an eye on comments re his PSV performances & the fans there are really impressed with him, so I was expecting a big change when I watched him v Milan, but on that occasion, all the same faults remained.

His lack of anticipation & positioning can all be learned, perhaps this season, but the one real crucial defensive header he needed to win, he made a right mess of, ending up lying on the floor as Milan had the goal at their mercy. The 'ooh he's only 18' brigade make allowances for stuff like that, but Ian Brightwell or Steve Redmond or Gerry Taggart or scores of other youth team cbs from our past, would have won it easily when they were the same age.

He was sometimes man marking Balotelli, & stuck to the task really well, but then Mario would just step up a gear & in an instant had gained ten yards on him. Rekik was busting a gut to catch him but Mario was just cruising in 2nd gear & still Rekik couldn't get near him. A pass to Balotelli at that time & the post match replays would have been awful for Rekik. There are many PL strikers faster than Mario & much better in the air than anyone at Milan.

Imo, he was a yard or two quicker & considerably more agile when we signed him. I thought he was going to be awesome. Probably just the fact of growing up has caused the difference, but if he is to make a PL centre back, he is going to be absolutely exceptional at everything associated with defending, in order to make up for his lack of pace & aerial ability. He will have to use his body & intelligence brilliantly to give him the advantage to make up for those weaknesses.

He's no fool for his age but I don't see evidence of an exceptional football brain either.

Playing proper football every week gives him the best possible chance to learn it all though.

I recon if we ever see him play regularly for City, he will be a fullback or defensive mid, but I think we will find bigger, stronger, faster & better players for centre back.

[Renato_CTID]

Rekik? A fantastic talented lad but in my own opinion not ready to play with us yet! Take a look please how he was completely out of position when El Shaarawy scored in PSV-AC!

[Green & Blue]

Glad to hear he has got called up to the national team.All the experience should serve him well and hopefully bring him on as a player.It won't do his value any harm either

[Dameerto]

Rekik? A fantastic talented lad but in my own opinion not ready to play with us yet! Take a look please how he was completely out of position when El Shaarawy scored in PSV-AC!

That was Bruma who didn't track El Sharaawy (the right side of central defence) - Rekik was covering for a potential run by the guy who handed the PSV leftback his arse in the few milliseconds that it was a possibility (he hit his cross very early)

[bigblue]

I don't know if he can cut it in the Dutch national team compared to what they have got, but unfortunately he doesn't look to me as if he will ever be a centre back for City.

...

I have been keeping an eye on comments re his PSV performances & the fans there are really impressed with him, so I was expecting a big change when I watched him v Milan, but on that occasion, all the same faults remained.

...

Imo, he was a yard or two quicker & considerably more agile when we signed him. I thought he was going to be awesome. Probably just the fact of growing up has caused the difference, but if he is to make a PL centre back, he is going to be absolutely exceptional at everything associated with defending, in order to make up for his lack of pace & aerial ability. He will have to use his body & intelligence brilliantly to give him the advantage to make up for those weaknesses.

Writing him off at 18?? The 'ooh he's only 18' brigade is called being logical. Enough of such flippant attitudes towards developing players. Getting called up for the NT under 20 years old should be something to be celebrated for any City player (especially since Holland is light years ahead of England).

He has not lost any pace or quickness since he signed for us that is bollox. Your perception of his pace has probably changed since he "used to be a promising 16 year old" but now is "old enough to raise a family and should be judged accordingly".

If the PSV fans are impressed, you'd think MCFC fans would take that as a good sign. They are the ones who see him play every week, not us. How about you start a Rekik update post where you give us a summary of his weekly performance, instead of a criticism every 6 months. Then I'd take you seriously.

[Ted Hughes]

I don't know if he can cut it in the Dutch national team compared to what they have got, but unfortunately he doesn't look to me as if he will ever be a centre back for City.

...

I have been keeping an eye on comments re his PSV performances & the fans there are really impressed with him, so I was expecting a big change when I watched him v Milan, but on that occasion, all the same faults remained.

...

Imo, he was a yard or two quicker & considerably more agile when we signed him. I thought he was going to be awesome. Probably just the fact of growing up has caused the difference, but if he is to make a PL centre back, he is going to be absolutely exceptional at everything associated with defending, in order to make up for his lack of pace & aerial ability. He will have to use his body & intelligence brilliantly to give him the advantage to make up for those weaknesses.

Writing him off at 18?? The 'ooh he's only 18' brigade is called being logical. Enough of such flippant attitudes towards developing players. Getting called up for the NT under 20 years old should be something to be celebrated for any City player (especially since Holland is light years ahead of England).

He has not lost any pace or quickness since he signed for us that is bollox. Your perception of his pace has probably changed since he "used to be a promising 16 year old" but now is "old enough to raise a family and should be judged accordingly".

If the PSV fans are impressed, you'd think MCFC fans would take that as a good sign. They are the ones who see him play every week, not us. How about you start a Rekik update post where you give us a summary of his weekly performance, instead of a criticism every 6 months. Then I'd take you seriously.

How would giving you a weekly report, be better than a detailed report of how he coped v someone we have all seen every week ? Surely giving him time to learn & improve, then having a look at him, is a much better way to judge an improvement ?

Why am I bothering to ask anyway ? You have only made that comment in order to disagree with me, rather than using any kind of thought or logic & you have no genuine interest in anything I say, other than to pick an argument.

And seeing as you know he hasn't lost any pace etc anyway, why don't you do it yourself, you have obviously watched him more closely than I have.

[Ted Hughes]

Rekik? A fantastic talented lad but in my own opinion not ready to play with us yet! Take a look please how he was completely out of position when El Shaarawy scored in PSV-AC!

That was Bruma who didn't track El Sharaawy (the right side of central defence) - Rekik was covering for a potential run by the guy who handed the PSV leftback his arse in the few milliseconds that it was a possibility (he hit his cross very early)

I didn't see Rekik do anything wrong on that occasion, but I didn't see him covering anything much either. He was just 'there', which is how I felt he was for most of the game; mostly not doing anything wrong, just not actually doing anything at all.

[bigblue]

Surely giving him time to learn & improve, then having a look at him, is a much better way to judge an improvement ?

Why am I bothering to ask anyway ? You have only made that comment in order to disagree with me, rather than using any kind of thought or logic & you have no genuine interest in anything I say, other than to pick an argument.

You have to understand that picking a random game every 6 months is a worse metric to judge someone by than seeing them every week. If you only see them 1/2 a year and they have an off game, then they must have "gone to shit" in the 6 months since you last saw them. When in reality, they could struggle in the one game (from fitness, off-day, susceptibility to one type of opponent) or their whole team could struggle in the game. When you see them regularly, you get a better idea of how they play.

Do you think scouts just fly down to South America every summer and winter for a weekend and say "well that lad looks shit/great" and fly back home? If not, why do you think you can watch Rekik every 6 months and pass a judgement that he when from "quick and pacey" to "not good enough"? Come on Ted, this is extremely basic stuff.

The second part of your reply is the same ol' "disagree with Ted then you are pointless/uncreative/boring" shite that you sprout in every argument. You are much more articulate than resorting to this tiresome whinging like this all the time. I only get on you because you state many of your opinions as if they are absolute fact, when in reality they are simply your individual opinion and should be presented as so.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

you state many of your opinions as if they are absolute fact, when in reality they are simply your individual opinion and should be presented as so.

selective quoting. interesting. ted also said things like "I don't know", and "to me", "I thought", "imo", etc, etc. Sounds like it's his opinion. innit.

[zuricity]

selective quoting. interesting. ted also said things like "I don't know", and "to me", "I thought", "imo", etc, etc. Sounds like it's his opinion. innit.

You're good at selective quoting Arjan

[Arjan Van Schotte]

You're good at selective quoting Arjan

Yes, I did

[Dameerto]

Rekik? A fantastic talented lad but in my own opinion not ready to play with us yet! Take a look please how he was completely out of position when El Shaarawy scored in PSV-AC!

That was Bruma who didn't track El Sharaawy (the right side of central defence) - Rekik was covering for a potential run by the guy who handed the PSV leftback his arse in the few milliseconds that it was a possibility (he hit his cross very early)

I didn't see Rekik do anything wrong on that occasion, but I didn't see him covering anything much either. He was just 'there', which is how I felt he was for most of the game; mostly not doing anything wrong, just not actually doing anything at all.

It's called covering the space - part of playing to a formation (and instructions), and like I said the cross was hit early anyway.

[Ted Hughes]

Surely giving him time to learn & improve, then having a look at him, is a much better way to judge an improvement ?

Why am I bothering to ask anyway ? You have only made that comment in order to disagree with me, rather than using any kind of thought or logic & you have no genuine interest in anything I say, other than to pick an argument.

You have to understand that picking a random game every 6 months is a worse metric to judge someone by than seeing them every week. If you only see them 1/2 a year and they have an off game, then they must have "gone to shit" in the 6 months since you last saw them. When in reality, they could struggle in the one game (from fitness, off-day, susceptibility to one type of opponent) or their whole team could struggle in the game. When you see them regularly, you get a better idea of how they play.

Do you think scouts just fly down to South America every summer and winter for a weekend and say "well that lad looks shit/great" and fly back home? If not, why do you think you can watch Rekik every 6 months and pass a judgement that he when from "quick and pacey" to "not good enough"? Come on Ted, this is extremely basic stuff.

The second part of your reply is the same ol' "disagree with Ted then you are pointless/uncreative/boring" shite that you sprout in every argument. You are much more articulate than resorting to this tiresome whinging like this all the time. I only get on you because you state many of your opinions as if they are absolute fact, when in reality they are simply your individual opinion and should be presented as so.

It's not a 'disagree with Ted' thing, it's a genuine football argument thing.

If you genuinely believe what you are saying & are not just on a windup, then fair enough. I am always willing to talk football with people even when I have an opposite opinion. I enjoy it. I have said this before. It's when people start attributing motives etc to my opinions, that I get pissed off.

But my opinion of Rekik is not based on him dropping in standards recently, I'm actually comparing him to when he first arrived, not 6 months ago, I just joined in on the '6 months' thing because it came up, But yes, I do think that a 6 month period would be a better indication of progression for a fan, rather than an employee of the club, who has to watch him every week.

If you see things a player needs to improve on, then half a year later, there is little improvement, the likelihood is you are right. Over the years, watching young players, I've rarely found that to be misleading, if you miss a player for a while: if he still hasn't made a significant change, then it's hardly ever going to happen.

Sturridge for instance is a way more naturally talented footballer than most English players of his generation, but for all his pace & talent, he is still the same blind, greedy, cunt he was at 15. If he'd fully learned from then, he would be worth 50 million quid now; he can do anything Aguero can do, but probably won't. That's a brain, rather than a physical thing. If he ever learns, he will be lethal.

Rekik, imo, is a physical thing.

He will have to be exceptional in his football intelligence etc imo, to ever even match Dedriyk Boyata's performances, in the Prem.

I haven't written him off , I've just said I think it's unlikely he will become a PL centre back imo.

I will watch him when I can & truly hope to be proved wrong.

[twosips]

I'm genuinely with Ted on this, though I do think its a possibility that he's not lost *that* much pace to his game. I just think he's maybe just lacking a bit of mental sharpness at the moment.. ya ever noticed how focused players look sharper? Best example being Nasri. He looked faster than ever the other night. Surely just a positive mental attitude thing?

We'll see i guess...

For what it's worth, I actually think Sturridge will score 20+ goals easily this season by the way. I think he might slowly begin to click ya know. I may be wrong, but he seems to be a tiny, tiny little bit less greedy than he once was and i think that's because he's finally found a bit of chemistry with someone - Coutinho.

[bigblue]

Rekik, imo, is a physical thing.

He will have to be exceptional in his football intelligence etc imo, to ever even match Dedriyk Boyata's performances, in the Prem.

I haven't written him off , I've just said I think it's unlikely he will become a PL centre back imo.

I will watch him when I can & truly hope to be proved wrong.

Keep in mind that hormone levels are hardly stable at 18 for a large amount of people. Growth spurts, muscles developing, joints getting used to the changes... can all cause short term differences in how well a young athlete can perform. Wait until he is about 20 until judging if he actually lost pace or in fact magically "gains it back plus some" from his body adapting to all the changes.

That said, I like to irrationally cheer on any City player and feel that is the natural inclination for most fans. Negativity (especially in times of uncertainty) about promising players seems counter to my view of a proper "supporter". Then again some people don't like to get their hopes up for fear of being let down. Different outlooks I guess. One just comes across as a bit of a perpetual downer.

[Ted Hughes]

Rekik, imo, is a physical thing.

He will have to be exceptional in his football intelligence etc imo, to ever even match Dedriyk Boyata's performances, in the Prem.

I haven't written him off , I've just said I think it's unlikely he will become a PL centre back imo.

I will watch him when I can & truly hope to be proved wrong.

Keep in mind that hormone levels are hardly stable at 18 for a large amount of people. Growth spurts, muscles developing, joints getting used to the changes... can all cause short term differences in how well a young athlete can perform. Wait until he is about 20 until judging if he actually lost pace or in fact magically "gains it back plus some" from his body adapting to all the changes.

That said, I like to irrationally cheer on any City player and feel that is the natural inclination for most fans. Negativity (especially in times of uncertainty) about promising players seems counter to my view of a proper "supporter". Then again some people don't like to get their hopes up for fear of being let down. Different outlooks I guess. One just comes across as a bit of a perpetual downer.

I don't have an 'outlook' I just judge each situation on merit & don't like to go overboard without good cause.

I've watched 1000s of young players at City since I was a kid & only a small handful of them have been good enough that they could play for this team (ironically most before the much revered 'academy' came into existence). I haven't written off Rekik but I have seen nothing in his game that Redmond & Brightwell couldn't do, at the same age. Nedum & Micah were better. He could indeed get a 'second wind' & I hope he does, but usually, they level out & disappear.

There is an attitude amongst some folks that any young player who plays a few games for City & is average, is someone who should be persevered with, be they 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 etc; they will all 'come good' given time, & pointing out faults in their play is viewed as unreasonable behaviour. These requirements are too low imo. The best young players normally do exceptional stuff. They drop bollocks all over the place, then they do something brilliant, not just quietly competent & 'ok'.

I keep referring to it, but Micah Richards was going 1v1 against Henry at a similar age to Rekik, but I'm getting called unreasonable for evaluating Rekik's performance v Balotelli. Micah at that age, would have given Balotelli a really hard time.

Rekik could find another level, it's not impossible, & it's not impossible that injury & growing up are having an effect on his movement. But he needs to if he is to have a career as a centre back at City. He needs to go up 3 or 4 levels. I hope he does, but I don't think he has the raw material from what I can see, & unfortunatlely, as I say, most young players don't get a '2nd wind' they just level off.

[markblue1960]

We should recall him if we can from his loan because Nasty is injured and we may need him as back up