Early days but a bit worried.

[s1ty m]

For me not worried at all. The Cardiff game was nothing like the debacle's last year. When we lost last year, there were clear signs that something was wrong within the club. The Southampton game springs to mind, everyone just seemed uninterested.

However after the Cardiff game, the players seemed determined to state that it was just a blip and they will learn from it. Sergio said something to the effect that the team were only starting out on something new and will learn from it. Silva said something similar.

Pellegrini is changing how the team plays and it takes a bit of time. sometimes when the pressure comes on in a game players will revert to what they know is familiar (ie. the way and shape they have played for the last 3-4 years). Nothing better than a shock defeat to work that out of the system!

Our movement against Newcastle was sharp, quick, with a lot of players interchanging positions, but that was a game that Newcastle let us play. Against Cardiff they were straight away in our faces and caused us problems, passes were not sticking, the players reverted to what was familiar to them. I would think (hope) that pellegrini will not over react to some of the shite spewed over the last few days and make wholesale changes.

Same 11 again this weekend unless Nastasic has recovered and hopefully get to see Jovetic at some stage. The players that played on Sunday will be as eager as anyone to get a result.

Same 11? Not Garcia, he's atrocious.

[FA cup winners 2006]

For me not worried at all. The Cardiff game was nothing like the debacle's last year. When we lost last year, there were clear signs that something was wrong within the club. The Southampton game springs to mind, everyone just seemed uninterested.

However after the Cardiff game, the players seemed determined to state that it was just a blip and they will learn from it. Sergio said something to the effect that the team were only starting out on something new and will learn from it. Silva said something similar.

Pellegrini is changing how the team plays and it takes a bit of time. sometimes when the pressure comes on in a game players will revert to what they know is familiar (ie. the way and shape they have played for the last 3-4 years). Nothing better than a shock defeat to work that out of the system!

Our movement against Newcastle was sharp, quick, with a lot of players interchanging positions, but that was a game that Newcastle let us play. Against Cardiff they were straight away in our faces and caused us problems, passes were not sticking, the players reverted to what was familiar to them. I would think (hope) that pellegrini will not over react to some of the shite spewed over the last few days and make wholesale changes.

Same 11 again this weekend unless Nastasic has recovered and hopefully get to see Jovetic at some stage. The players that played on Sunday will be as eager as anyone to get a result.

Same 11? Not Garcia, he's atrocious.

Read the last sentence, if Nastasic is back he obviously comes in for Garcia

[Hazy2]

Until we get a forward that handle the ball upto-him anytime anywhere we will have problems back to front, some days you get a away with it we nearly did. CC had a spell after an hour or so when we looked like they had 15 players,it just kept coming back at us, bang average players throwing the lot in, nothing more, If that game was a home fixture the likes of Dzeko look like world beaters, Kun has to offer more, MF are a new unit caught between a basketball type game on Sunday. 1 goal cannot take your legs away but it did. Pelli will have to sort it out, because that looks like it could happen again. The players have to dig in and allow the class to show, Hard work is the min requirement and we lacked in that department. It was like many a game at Goodison Park in it for long periods but out of it in no time. Mistakes get punished at any level we made 3 in 30 mins. F Campbell looking that good fuck off.

[FA cup winners 2006]

Until we get a forward that handle the ball upto-him anytime anywhere we will have problems back to front, some days you get a away with it we nearly did. CC had a spell after an hour or so when we looked like they had 15 players,it just kept coming back at us, bang average players throwing the lot in, nothing more, If that game was a home fixture the likes of Dzeko look like world beaters, Kun has to offer more, MF are a new unit caught between a basketball type game on Sunday. 1 goal cannot take your legs away but it did. Pelli will have to sort it out, because that looks like it could happen again. The players have to dig in and allow the class to show, Hard work is the min requirement and we lacked in that department. It was like many a game at Goodison Park in it for long periods but out of it in no time. Mistakes get punished at any level we made 3 in 30 mins. F Campbell looking that good fuck off.

our forwards are fine and offer a good mix of all the attributes we need. We are changing the way we play and it will come. We are trying to play a high pressing game that needs to be pushed from the back. On Sunday our defence did not push on quick enough and left the midfield in limbo (do they push on or stay with the defenders, in the end they done neither).

I think Pellegrini is trying us to play something similar to what Barca were doing a few years ago, when we loose the ball 3 or 4 forwards/midfielders hound down the ball while the defenders and some midfielders pick up the loose men and not giving an easy out ball. this video shows it perfectly (if it works).
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs0IemkVKs[/youtube]

When the players get comfortable, they will trust the system and their first instinct when they loose the ball will be to push forward to get it back instead of dropping of 5-10 yards like what happened on sunday, giving Cardiff time to look up and pass the ball around.

* of course it didn't work, I give up

[Hazy2]

Until we get a forward that handle the ball upto-him anytime anywhere we will have problems back to front, some days you get a away with it we nearly did. CC had a spell after an hour or so when we looked like they had 15 players,it just kept coming back at us, bang average players throwing the lot in, nothing more, If that game was a home fixture the likes of Dzeko look like world beaters, Kun has to offer more, MF are a new unit caught between a basketball type game on Sunday. 1 goal cannot take your legs away but it did. Pelli will have to sort it out, because that looks like it could happen again. The players have to dig in and allow the class to show, Hard work is the min requirement and we lacked in that department. It was like many a game at Goodison Park in it for long periods but out of it in no time. Mistakes get punished at any level we made 3 in 30 mins. F Campbell looking that good fuck off.

our forwards are fine and offer a good mix of all the attributes we need. We are changing the way we play and it will come. We are trying to play a high pressing game that needs to be pushed from the back. On Sunday our defence did not push on quick enough and left the midfield in limbo (do they push on or stay with the defenders, in the end they done neither).

I think Pellegrini is trying us to play something similar to what Barca were doing a few years ago, when we loose the ball 3 or 4 forwards/midfielders hound down the ball while the defenders and some midfielders pick up the loose men and not giving an easy out ball. this video shows it perfectly (if it works).
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs0IemkVKs[/youtube]

When the players get comfortable, they will trust the system and their first instinct when they loose the ball will be to push forward to get it back instead of dropping of 5-10 yards like what happened on sunday, giving Cardiff time to look up and pass the ball around.

* of course it didn't work, I give up

Our forwards need a fill yer boots memo, not an off the cuff Attitude, systems had nothing to do with failing to kill the game at 1-0d losing a bang average ex rag twice was hard to watch. sorry to disagree mate, we needed a rocket at Half time and we got stuck in 1st gear Lescott needed to be central and stick his massive head on the ball if Hart was blocked off, Barca are the same on crosses a mess. Lescott floundering on the line again to clear the header is waste of resources, we are one of the biggest teams sadly we lacked a nasty streak all last season to stick our head in where it matters, it was evident again, as it was so often last season.

[Beefymcfc]

I tell you what, if we lose to the fucking Elephant Man then I'll be seriously worried.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

NQDP you are one seriously miserable bastard.

And what happened to this 4-2-2-2 formation that you said was 100 percent certain? I haven't heard any mention of it besides some magnets being arranged in a video you posted.

Miserable bastard always complaining.

I said he is two up front guy. Now tell me how we will line up. 50 quid to charity cause that four out of five first league games we will start with two up front. You game?

I'm pretty sure you have been adamant that he plays 4-2-2-2:

Do you assume that Pellegrini will play something other than 4-2-2-2 he so much believes in?

But so far in his career he has been pretty strict about that 4-2-2-2 and that includes Malaga.

I didn't see them more than handfull times last year but to me it seemed like he was using his beloved 4-2-2-2. That's definitely how he has set up his teams in the past.

Pellegrini is pretty strict 4-2-2-2 man.

Do you still stand by this????? Because it seems you think Pellegrini plays a 4-2-2-2. When I haven't really anyone else echo that or any hint that this will happen at City.

Which of those comments is untrue? He likes that system very much and it has been his base system most of the time. You'd know that had you seen it. I posed the question numerous of times mainly to open the discussion about the tactics he is going to use AND first and foremost because there are lot of stories about Beguristain forcing him Barcelona 4-3-3. Latter being the big question imo. I seem to remember him using 4-2-3-1 (which in reality looked lot like 4-2-2-2 with one of the strikers dropping bit deeper) but he has never been 4-3-3 man ever. If we are lining up 4-3-3 it will mean that we have a system and in future managers will come and go but system is what it is. The bigger picture. Holistic approach if you will.

Now I don't believe that will happen hence why I'm willing to gamble on him being able to use his belowed two up front. But kiddo, you are avoiding the point here, put your money where your mouth is.

4-2-2-2 and two strikers. That is precisely the system we've been using in first three games. Was the bet on loudmouth? You never answered.

[Original Dub]

Looked like a 4-4-2 to me but hey ho, what do I know about these magic numbers...

[dazby]

Looked a classic 4-4-2. But hey, stubborn Antti knows best.

[Ted Hughes]

4-2-2-2 is effectively 4-4-2 half the time.

But if you look at the start of the second half (after the Count had a word) you could see the lineup for a short while as they briefly had a bit more shape. But it's very rare it stays like that.

I would prefer to see something more like a 4-1-2-2-1.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

4-2-2-2 is effectively 4-4-2 half the time.
But if you look at the start of the second half (after the Count had a word) you could see the lineup for a short while as they briefly had a bit more shape. But it's very rare it stays like that.

I would prefer to see something more like a 4-1-2-2-1.

Exactly.

When they line up and keep the formation for a while it's been

------------------------Toure-------Fernandinho
----------------------------------------------------
-----Navas--------------------------------Silva
------------------Dzeko/Negredo---------Aguero

That's how we've been lining up. Navas and Silva are constantly forced to drop deeper because of the overlapping fullbacks though. That's one thing Pellegrini hasn't figured out yet. In Spain you can have those overlapping fullbacks and basically three at the back with attacking midfielders still pushing forward but amazing pace in Premier League forces one or both of the central midfielders to stay behind AND forces one of the attacking midfielders to drop little bit as well --> formation suffers.

This is more or less the system he has been using most of his career. It's actually pretty good system only The Engineer needs to make tweaks to make it suit English football.

Point was though that he'd be using two strikers and that's what he is doing, isn't it?

[Ted Hughes]

4-2-2-2 is effectively 4-4-2 half the time.
But if you look at the start of the second half (after the Count had a word) you could see the lineup for a short while as they briefly had a bit more shape. But it's very rare it stays like that.

I would prefer to see something more like a 4-1-2-2-1.

Exactly.

When they line up and keep the formation for a while it's been

------------------------Toure-------Fernandinho
----------------------------------------------------
-----Navas--------------------------------Silva
------------------Dzeko/Negredo---------Aguero

That's how we've been lining up. Navas and Silva are constantly forced to drop deeper because of the overlapping fullbacks though. That's one thing Pellegrini hasn't figured out yet. In Spain you can have those overlapping fullbacks and basically three at the back with attacking midfielders still pushing forward but amazing pace in Premier League forces one or both of the central midfielders to stay behind AND forces one of the attacking midfielders to drop little bit as well --> formation suffers.

This is more or less the system he has been using most of his career. It's actually pretty good system only The Engineer needs to make tweaks to make it suit English football.

Point was though that he'd be using two strikers and that's what he is doing, isn't it?

Imo, it's not working at all half of the time & it reminds me of the bizarre mentalist tactic Mancini used v Dortmund, where half the team are stood miles away from the back 4. Sure silva & Navas turn it into a 4-4-2 defensively 'sometimes' but quite often what we are getting when we initially lose the ball is this kind of thing: (X being oppo)
--------Lescott----------Nastasic
-------------------------X
-----------Toure-------------

-X------Fernandinho----X
--------Navas
Zabba------X----------X----KolarovSilva
--------X---------Dzeko--Aguero--X
----------------X----X-----X-------

Which 3 seconds later is:

--------Lescott----------Nastasic

-------------------------X
----X-------Toure----Fernandinho-----X----
Navas
Zabba-------------X
-----------------------------X-----
--------------------Silva---------Kolarov
--------------------X------------X
----------X-------Dzeko--Aguero--
--------------------X-----X-------

They are launching, mob handed, straight down the middle of the pitch, with half our team stranded & strikers dropping deep, unmarked, wrong side of our midfield, with runners out wide.

[Michael Brookes]

4-2-2-2 is effectively 4-4-2 half the time.
But if you look at the start of the second half (after the Count had a word) you could see the lineup for a short while as they briefly had a bit more shape. But it's very rare it stays like that.

I would prefer to see something more like a 4-1-2-2-1.

Exactly.

When they line up and keep the formation for a while it's been

------------------------Toure-------Fernandinho
----------------------------------------------------
-----Navas--------------------------------Silva
------------------Dzeko/Negredo---------Aguero

That's how we've been lining up. Navas and Silva are constantly forced to drop deeper because of the overlapping fullbacks though. That's one thing Pellegrini hasn't figured out yet. In Spain you can have those overlapping fullbacks and basically three at the back with attacking midfielders still pushing forward but amazing pace in Premier League forces one or both of the central midfielders to stay behind AND forces one of the attacking midfielders to drop little bit as well --> formation suffers.

This is more or less the system he has been using most of his career. It's actually pretty good system only The Engineer needs to make tweaks to make it suit English football.

Point was though that he'd be using two strikers and that's what he is doing, isn't it?

Imo, it's not working at all half of the time & it reminds me of the bizarre mentalist tactic Mancini used v Dortmund, where half the team are stood miles away from the back 4. Sure silva & Navas turn it into a 4-4-2 defensively 'sometimes' but quite often what we are getting when we initially lose the ball is this kind of thing: (X being oppo)
--------Lescott----------Nastasic
-------------------------X
-----------Toure-------------

-X------Fernandinho----X
--------Navas
Zabba------X----------X----KolarovSilva
--------X---------Dzeko--Aguero--X
----------------X----X-----X-------

Which 3 seconds later is:

--------Lescott----------Nastasic

-------------------------X
----X-------Toure----Fernandinho-----X----
Navas
Zabba-------------X
-----------------------------X-----
--------------------Silva---------Kolarov
--------------------X------------X
----------X-------Dzeko--Aguero--
--------------------X-----X-------

They are launching, mob handed, straight down the middle of the pitch, with half our team stranded & strikers dropping deep, unmarked, wrong side of our midfield, with runners out wide.

Liquid football!

[Ted Hughes]

4-2-2-2 is effectively 4-4-2 half the time.
But if you look at the start of the second half (after the Count had a word) you could see the lineup for a short while as they briefly had a bit more shape. But it's very rare it stays like that.

I would prefer to see something more like a 4-1-2-2-1.

Exactly.

When they line up and keep the formation for a while it's been

------------------------Toure-------Fernandinho
----------------------------------------------------
-----Navas--------------------------------Silva
------------------Dzeko/Negredo---------Aguero

That's how we've been lining up. Navas and Silva are constantly forced to drop deeper because of the overlapping fullbacks though. That's one thing Pellegrini hasn't figured out yet. In Spain you can have those overlapping fullbacks and basically three at the back with attacking midfielders still pushing forward but amazing pace in Premier League forces one or both of the central midfielders to stay behind AND forces one of the attacking midfielders to drop little bit as well --> formation suffers.

This is more or less the system he has been using most of his career. It's actually pretty good system only The Engineer needs to make tweaks to make it suit English football.

Point was though that he'd be using two strikers and that's what he is doing, isn't it?

Imo, it's not working at all half of the time & it reminds me of the bizarre mentalist tactic Mancini used v Dortmund, where half the team are stood miles away from the back 4. Sure silva & Navas turn it into a 4-4-2 defensively 'sometimes' but quite often what we are getting when we initially lose the ball is this kind of thing: (X being oppo)
--------Lescott----------Nastasic
-------------------------X
-----------Toure-------------

-X------Fernandinho----X
--------Navas
Zabba------X----------X----KolarovSilva
--------X---------Dzeko--Aguero--X
----------------X----X-----X-------

Which 3 seconds later is:

--------Lescott----------Nastasic

-------------------------X
----X-------Toure----Fernandinho-----X----
Navas
Zabba-------------X
-----------------------------X-----
--------------------Silva---------Kolarov
--------------------X------------X
----------X-------Dzeko--Aguero--
--------------------X-----X-------

They are launching, mob handed, straight down the middle of the pitch, with half our team stranded & strikers dropping deep, unmarked, wrong side of our midfield, with runners out wide.

Liquid football!

It pretty much is.

We just have 'some players' generally knocking about randomly in the oppo half, with the team stretched out, whilst they leg it down the middle & out wide.

[Socrates]

Liquid shit at the moment.

[Clowncrete]

Liquid shit at the moment.

Diarrhea??

[Beefymcfc]

So, not a Xmas Tree formation then or what about a WM?

[City64]

No fucker would pass to David Silva on saturday , its amazing when he is on the ball doing his stuff ........ he is world class and we are a different team BUT NO FUCKER WOULD PASS TO HIM ?????