Fernandinho

[bigblue]

Ted, if I didn't know any better I'd think you were a 14 year old girl with responses like that.

About Fernandinho:

I think him + Yaya is an incredible partnership, one of the most dynamic in the world. We bossed the game vs Cardiff (70% possession!), just lacked a cutting edge in the final 1/3rd and failed to defend two basic set pieces. Neither of which was Yaya or Fernandinho's main responsibility.

Fernandinho could have had some better touches around Cardiff's box, but some of the balls played to him were also over hit. He is like a mini version of Yaya. Not as powerful, but more mobile and creates good space in the middle of the field. He is definitly a special type of player.

From the videos on CityTV, it looks as if the two of them have a great deal of mutual respect and get along. Always good signs when forming a partnership. As the season goes on I expect them to create the best midfield partnership we've seen for quite awhile and overrun most teams in the league.

[zuricity]

I'm a great motivator so fuck you and get it done!

Well motivate the f*ck out of Fernandinho, the git hasn't played for Brazil since 2011!

[twosips]

No one is saying Yaya is crap. He's an incredible footballer. You could put a very strong argument forward to suggest that he's the most complete footballer in the world. He's THAT good...thing is, you just think he could do more. If he was 15% more aggressive we'd see more of those lung bursting runs that absolutely destroyed Real Madrid and terrified United, we'd see more of him chasing his man back and absolutely bullying players defensively in the way Vieira did....but sometimes he just doesn't. He does go into simple playing-it-cool-acting-as-a-deep-lying-playmaker mode and doesn't totally exert himself on the game. It's just a mentality thing.

This is not to say he's shit. Far from it. It's just sometimes i wish he was a little bit more energetic. When's the last time we saw one of his incredibly powerful dribbles? ...they're all too rare, which is a shame as they destroy teams. Honestly can't remember one for all of the second half of the season. On that form he's unplayable. There is no one in the world capable of those runs other than Messi and maybe Bale. Ronaldo can't even do them. He doesn't - as strong as he is, he's just not as strong as Yaya. No one can push Yaya off the ball or turn and accelerate with that much technique that impressively. He's truly unique in that aspect.....I just wish we saw more of that as opposed to him simply keeping the ball.

Imagine if we had Yaya's physique, technical ability and footballing brain with someone like Gerrard's endeavour. He'd win games on his own, frequently.

Edit - for what its worth i dont think Ted is slagging off Yaya. Just pointing out that he's not perfect, when he actually pretty much could be if he wanted to, which is frustrating. I don't think there's a single City fan who'd not want him in the team.

[bigblue]

No one is saying Yaya is crap. He's an incredible footballer. You could put a very strong argument forward to suggest that he's the most complete footballer in the world. He's THAT good...thing is, you just think he could do more. If he was 15% more aggressive we'd see more of those lung bursting runs that absolutely destroyed Real Madrid and terrified United, we'd see more of him chasing his man back and absolutely bullying players defensively in the way Vieira did....but sometimes he just doesn't. He does go into simple playing-it-cool-acting-as-a-deep-lying-playmaker mode and doesn't totally exert himself on the game. It's just a mentality thing.

This is not to say he's shit. Far from it. It's just sometimes i wish he was a little bit more energetic. When's the last time we saw one of his incredibly powerful dribbles? ...they're all too rare, which is a shame as they destroy teams. Honestly can't remember one for all of the second half of the season. On that form he's unplayable. There is no one in the world capable of those runs other than Messi and maybe Bale. Ronaldo can't even do them. He doesn't - as strong as he is, he's just not as strong as Yaya. No one can push Yaya off the ball or turn and accelerate with that much technique that impressively. He's truly unique in that aspect.....I just wish we saw more of that as opposed to him simply keeping the ball.

Imagine if we had Yaya's physique, technical ability and footballing brain with someone like Gerrard's endeavour. He'd win games on his own, frequently.

Edit - for what its worth i dont think Ted is slagging off Yaya. Just pointing out that he's not perfect, when he actually pretty much could be if he wanted to, which is frustrating. I don't think there's a single City fan who'd not want him in the team.

If you can say that he may be one of the most complete footballers in the world, then you are delusional by thinking that he could up his effort level by 15%. You cannot be considered anything close to a complete player without desire, effort, and work rate.

And for the last time, why do you think that Yaya not making more runs forward are down to his decision or personal laziness?? Do you think that he doesn't want to burst past 4 players at a time and get a shot or cross in? Thats the type of stuff that football players dream of!

Again, the main reason that Yaya is not sprinting past the strikers when he gets the ball or tracking players past the midfield on defense is because of the directions that are given to him. He, like all professional players, follow the tactics laid out by the coach. Sprint forward and you leave a hole in defense and have a higher chance of giving up possession. Follow an attacker back too far and you are not in a good position to be an outlet to start the next attack. He would not be one of the first names on the team sheet if he failed to follow the manger's directions.

No, Yaya is not perfect. But he should not be criticized for following the tactics given to him. Our managers and Yaya may just know a little more about football than the rest of us.

[twosips]

I mean complete players in terms of having the skill set to be. Doesn't mean he uses and exerts it all frequently.

I don't actually agree that it's all purely a managerial thing. I honestly think a lot of it is down to Yaya. No sane manager in the world would restrict that much of a player's natural ability....but i don't think we'll agree on that.

[Beefymcfc]

I'm a great motivator so fuck you and get it done!

Well motivate the f*ck out of Fernandinho, the git hasn't played for Brazil since 2011!

Oh, you bitch! He won't get a chance with Spurs Paul in the frame.

[Ted Hughes]

No one is saying Yaya is crap. He's an incredible footballer. You could put a very strong argument forward to suggest that he's the most complete footballer in the world. He's THAT good...thing is, you just think he could do more. If he was 15% more aggressive we'd see more of those lung bursting runs that absolutely destroyed Real Madrid and terrified United, we'd see more of him chasing his man back and absolutely bullying players defensively in the way Vieira did....but sometimes he just doesn't. He does go into simple playing-it-cool-acting-as-a-deep-lying-playmaker mode and doesn't totally exert himself on the game. It's just a mentality thing.

This is not to say he's shit. Far from it. It's just sometimes i wish he was a little bit more energetic. When's the last time we saw one of his incredibly powerful dribbles? ...they're all too rare, which is a shame as they destroy teams. Honestly can't remember one for all of the second half of the season. On that form he's unplayable. There is no one in the world capable of those runs other than Messi and maybe Bale. Ronaldo can't even do them. He doesn't - as strong as he is, he's just not as strong as Yaya. No one can push Yaya off the ball or turn and accelerate with that much technique that impressively. He's truly unique in that aspect.....I just wish we saw more of that as opposed to him simply keeping the ball.

Imagine if we had Yaya's physique, technical ability and footballing brain with someone like Gerrard's endeavour. He'd win games on his own, frequently.

Edit - for what its worth i dont think Ted is slagging off Yaya. Just pointing out that he's not perfect, when he actually pretty much could be if he wanted to, which is frustrating. I don't think there's a single City fan who'd not want him in the team.

Again, the main reason that Yaya is not sprinting past the strikers when he gets the ball or tracking players past the midfield on defense is because of the directions that are given to him. .

Why the fuck would anyone tell him not to track back or run ? And if those are his instructions, why does he sometimes track back & sometimes run ?

[Ted Hughes]

Wrong thread.

[Im_Spartacus]

People in business need inspirational leaders as well, which is why sales mangers/executives get paid so well.

I'd object to the whole performance scale that you are using. I think the difference between players at the top level is marginal. A 1-2% effort drop can be the difference between winning and losing in the PL or CL. To suggest that players' performance shifts by 20% in some cases is a bit over the top. Modern sports science protects against this and weekly stats prove it (except for stats under statistical significance like goals or assists).

Professional players have become in the top .000001% of all football players on the planet by training harder, wanting o succeed more, a little luck, and physical gifts. They have basically been working at their current job since they were 9 with the dream of being a professional. You think that a manager is really going to inspire them to lift their game by 10% just by giving a talk (as if they don't want it enough already)? I think a manager can lift a team's performance by getting everyone on the same page, putting individual is the position to make the most of tehir talent, and work together. But if an individual doesn't have enough desire at the professional level you call then Wayne Brigde or Winston Bolgrade, not Yaya Toure.

So Yaya plays at 95-100% every week. Yaya + a manager who puts him in a role to succeed, a team who is on the same page, and a little luck = something greater than what Yaya can produce individuality.

Just like Bob + a proper incentive/commission structure + competent assisting staff + good marketing push = more than Bob would produce on his own.

Are you really sayin that every time a professional player takes the pitch, they perform to 95-100%% of their ability, because im calling bollocks on that mate.

If you think the difference between Dzeko's performance against Newcastle (for example), and his performances for most of last season amounts to a difference of 5% there is no debate to be had on that point mate, because thats bollocks. Performance standards vary wildly from game to game, just as any person's performance at their job can differ from day to day, and its down to a combination of the manager's motivation, and a players self motivation to turn out a consistent level of performance.

Otherwise, a difference of such small margins would have the best players in the world, and thus Yaya, scoring 9.5/10 every week wouldnt it, and no possibility of a lesser player making the best of his talents through hard work and self motivation like zabaleta to ever be man of the match or player of the season?

[bigblue]

Why the fuck would anyone tell him not to track back or run ? And if those are his instructions, why does he sometimes track back & sometimes run ?

Follow an attacker back too far and you are not in a good position to be an outlet to start the next attack.

And if those are his instructions, why does he sometimes track back & sometimes run ?

He does bust a gut to get back if we lost the ball in the other team's half because we are vulnerable then.

There's also this whole issue that no game goes 100% according to plan; teammates can make mistakes, opponents can do great unexpected plays... and players adapt (such as tracking back further than normal).

[Ted Hughes]

Why the fuck would anyone tell him not to track back or run ? And if those are his instructions, why does he sometimes track back & sometimes run ?

Follow an attacker back too far and you are not in a good position to be an outlet to start the next attack.

And if those are his instructions, why does he sometimes track back & sometimes run ?

He does bust a gut to get back if we lost the ball in the other team's half because we are vulnerable then.

There's also this whole issue that no game goes 100% according to plan; teammates can make mistakes, opponents can do great unexpected plays... and players adapt (such as tracking back further than normal).

Just to educate me; where have you got this information about these instructions given to Yaya & how come, seeing as we have a totally different manager playing a different system, both managers have given him the same limitations ?

[london blue 2]

On the yaya thing IMO and I have said before, I completely agree with Tedscott. Yaya has the tools to be right up alongside messi Ronaldo etc, the only thing that lets him down is his energy levels on the pitch. Put Rooney/Suarez/Gerrard (of old)/bales engine in yaya and he would blow every player away he's that good.

Unfortunately he likes to plod about totting up his opta stats for raggers.

End of the season we won the FA cup yaya scared the shit out of every team we faced.

[bigblue]

People in business need inspirational leaders as well, which is why sales mangers/executives get paid so well.

I'd object to the whole performance scale that you are using. I think the difference between players at the top level is marginal. A 1-2% effort drop can be the difference between winning and losing in the PL or CL. To suggest that players' performance shifts by 20% in some cases is a bit over the top. Modern sports science protects against this and weekly stats prove it (except for stats under statistical significance like goals or assists).

Professional players have become in the top .000001% of all football players on the planet by training harder, wanting o succeed more, a little luck, and physical gifts. They have basically been working at their current job since they were 9 with the dream of being a professional. You think that a manager is really going to inspire them to lift their game by 10% just by giving a talk (as if they don't want it enough already)? I think a manager can lift a team's performance by getting everyone on the same page, putting individual is the position to make the most of tehir talent, and work together. But if an individual doesn't have enough desire at the professional level you call then Wayne Brigde or Winston Bolgrade, not Yaya Toure.

So Yaya plays at 95-100% every week. Yaya + a manager who puts him in a role to succeed, a team who is on the same page, and a little luck = something greater than what Yaya can produce individuality.

Just like Bob + a proper incentive/commission structure + competent assisting staff + good marketing push = more than Bob would produce on his own.

Are you really sayin that every time a professional player takes the pitch, they perform to 95-100%% of their ability, because im calling bollocks on that mate.

If you think the difference between Dzeko's performance against Newcastle (for example), and his performances for most of last season amounts to a difference of 5% there is no debate to be had on that point mate, because thats bollocks. Performance standards vary wildly from game to game, just as any person's performance at their job can differ from day to day, and its down to a combination of the manager's motivation, and a players self motivation to turn out a consistent level of performance.

Otherwise, a difference of such small margins would have the best players in the world, and thus Yaya, scoring 9.5/10 every week wouldnt it, and no possibility of a lesser player making the best of his talents through hard work and self motivation like zabaleta to ever be man of the match or player of the season?

I think if you look at the 100 meter dash times of most pro players, they would deviate by 5% at the most, not 15-20%. Small differences look larger when everyone is at a similarly high level. You can only improve you speed by so much (1%?) through motivation. You can only improve your touch and awareness by so much through motivation. I'd argue that the era of looking to over-hyped/get super-syched up before games is gone. Everyone is at such a high skill, fitness, and tactical level that the best way for a team to improve is by working together and following the game plan; not by being more motivated than others. Because everyone else is just as motivated.

Zabba got player of the season because his tactical awareness, decision making, and touch all vastly improved over the past few years. not because he put in more effort. He always put in tons of effort, but would often get rash cards or give the ball away in possession too much.

Everyone is motivated when you step in front of 50,000 screaming fans. 95% of motivation for a game matters on the training pitch. And training smart, not just more intensely. So simply judging a player's motivation level by how much they sprint after the opposition or "look interested" missed most of the picture.

[Ted Hughes]

On the yaya thing IMO and I have said before, I completely agree with Tedscott. Yaya has the tools to be right up alongside messi Ronaldo etc, the only thing that lets him down is his energy levels on the pitch. Put Rooney/Suarez/Gerrard (of old)/bales engine in yaya and he would blow every player away he's that good.

Unfortunately he likes to plod about totting up his opta stats for raggers.

End of the season we won the FA cup yaya scared the shit out of every team we faced.

The title run in, he was fucking awesome going forward.

I agree, I recon he would be right up there alongside Messi if he had the determination to match his ability & strength. Not only that, he could carry on playing for years as he's such a big strong fucker he doesn't need the pace, just the effort & desire to win the ball.

[bigblue]

All of this is in your imagination if you think that he could increase is current output by 15/25/50% if he just tried harder or was more motivated. If so, it would immensely help City win titles and all players love to win titles. So why doesn't he just "try harder"? Especially if he already put in the 2 decades of work and sacrifice to be a world class player...

In these cases, usually the simplest answer is true. Because it's bollox.

[twosips]

All of this is in your imagination if you think that he could increase is current output by 15/25/50% if he just tried harder or was more motivated. If so, it would immensely help City win titles and all players love to win titles. So why doesn't he just "try harder"? Especially if he already put in the 2 decades of work and sacrifice to be a world class player...

In these cases, usually the simplest answer is true. Because it's bollox.

Do you really think people are as simple as that? Do you really think all players realise that and then do it? No they don't, as he's human. Same reason Balotelli didn't realise he was wasting his fucking time. Same reason Balotelli also won't ever reach the levels of ability Ronaldo has, despite having the natural talent to do just that.

The game and every profession in the world is littered with people who don't necessarily reach their fullest potential because they don't push themselves enough.

[london blue 2]

When is the last time yaya made a lung bursting run anywhere, remember the ones where he used to be gasping for air right afterwards? Or was that in my imagination...

[london blue 2]

All of this is in your imagination if you think that he could increase is current output by 15/25/50% if he just tried harder or was more motivated. If so, it would immensely help City win titles and all players love to win titles. So why doesn't he just "try harder"? Especially if he already put in the 2 decades of work and sacrifice to be a world class player...

In these cases, usually the simplest answer is true. Because it's bollox.

Do you really think people are as simple as that? Do you really think all players realise that and then do it? No they don't, as he's human. Same reason Balotelli didn't realise he was wasting his fucking time. Same reason Balotelli also won't ever reach the levels of ability Ronaldo has, despite having the natural talent to do just that.

The game and every profession in the world is littered with people who don't necessarily reach their fullest potential because they don't push themselves enough.

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[Ted Hughes]

All of this is in your imagination if you think that he could increase is current output by 15/25/50% if he just tried harder or was more motivated. If so, it would immensely help City win titles and all players love to win titles. So why doesn't he just "try harder"? Especially if he already put in the 2 decades of work and sacrifice to be a world class player...

In these cases, usually the simplest answer is true. Because it's bollox.

So basically you are suggesting that all footballers are trying as hard as they can, in every game.

You are living in a fantasy world & this is not a sensible conversation.

You still haven't told me where you got the info that both Mancini & Pellegrini have given Yaya limitations on where he is allowed to run.

That's because it's something you have made up, in order to further your argument.

[twosips]

When is the last time yaya made a lung bursting run anywhere, remember the ones where he used to be gasping for air right afterwards? Or was that in my imagination...

That Yaya is untouchable. You can keep your Xavis. Your iniestas. Your fucking Scholes or Gerrards. That Yaya on that form is just uncontrollable.