Bale - POLL

[Bridge'srightfoot]

PBL, I agree when you said Bale poses more of an INDIVIDUAL threat than Xavi and Iniesta.
Don't get me wrong I think Xavi and Iniesta are both top, top players, but they both need great players around them to perform to that level. They need players who are on the same wavelength, who can anticipate their passes etc.
The difference is Bale can win games on his own. And he often did in a not great Spurs side.
If you swapped Bale for Iniesta I just don't think Spurs would have scored as many last season.

Iniesta has proven time and time again that he is a true world great.

Please don't compare him with gareth fucking bale.

Why don't you state your case rather than go 'no Iniesta's better'.
Bale's goals are mostly due to individual ability, Iniesta whilst a world class player, needs a great team around him.
At Barca he has that so he's exceptional, if you plonked him at someone like Everton I'd be interested to see if he had the same impact. Whereas I think Bale would have the same impact wherever he played.

So you're saying Bale would flourish in a lesser team? That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a success in a great team, does it? Iniesta we already know is a success in a great team.

Charlie Adam flourished in a lesser team.

What i'm saying is he'll flourish wherever, because his goals and best play are down to himself mostly rather than the team. He makes them himself, by running half the length of the pitch, banging one in from distance or scoring a free kick. It's not like he's just part of a Spurs team playing great football.
If you put Bale at Everton or even Crystal Palace he'd still look great because he carries a huge individual threat.
Iniesta is a truly world class player, one of the best out there don't get me wrong. But he's part of a jigsaw at Barca, his game involves the whole team being able to pass and move etc. If you put him at a lesser team, the other players wouldn't be on his wavelength and he wouldn't have the same impact imo. His game is based around having a great team and I think if you put Silva or Mata there they wouldn't be far off.
Maybe in a great team Iniesta will be better as he has better close control, better reading etc but in terms of who carries a greater individual threat it's Bale.

[Slim]

PBL, I agree when you said Bale poses more of an INDIVIDUAL threat than Xavi and Iniesta.
Don't get me wrong I think Xavi and Iniesta are both top, top players, but they both need great players around them to perform to that level. They need players who are on the same wavelength, who can anticipate their passes etc.
The difference is Bale can win games on his own. And he often did in a not great Spurs side.
If you swapped Bale for Iniesta I just don't think Spurs would have scored as many last season.

Iniesta has proven time and time again that he is a true world great.

Please don't compare him with gareth fucking bale.

Why don't you state your case rather than go 'no Iniesta's better'.
Bale's goals are mostly due to individual ability, Iniesta whilst a world class player, needs a great team around him.
At Barca he has that so he's exceptional, if you plonked him at someone like Everton I'd be interested to see if he had the same impact. Whereas I think Bale would have the same impact wherever he played.

So you're saying Bale would flourish in a lesser team? That doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a success in a great team, does it? Iniesta we already know is a success in a great team.

Charlie Adam flourished in a lesser team.

What i'm saying is he'll flourish wherever, because his goals and best play are down to himself mostly rather than the team. He makes them himself, by running half the length of the pitch, banging one in from distance or scoring a free kick. It's not like he's just part of a Spurs team playing great football.
If you put Bale at Everton or even Crystal Palace he'd still look great because he carries a huge individual threat.
Iniesta is a truly world class player, one of the best out there don't get me wrong. But he's part of a jigsaw at Barca, his game involves the whole team being able to pass and move etc. If you put him at a lesser team, the other players wouldn't be on his wavelength and he wouldn't have the same impact imo. His game is based around having a great team and I think if you put Silva or Mata there they wouldn't be far off.
Maybe in a great team Iniesta will be better as he has better close control, better reading etc but in terms of who carries a greater individual threat it's Bale.

I get your point, but do you get mine? There is no guarantee that he will flourish in a team where he is not the primary focus like Madrid.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Slim,
Yeah definitely, there's never a guarantee with any signing.
He's used to being the main man at Spurs, but I can't imagine he'll be too happy when Ronaldo doesn't let him take free kicks or when he's not being given the ball all the time.
He may rise to the challenge and up his game even further though. We'll just have to wait and see. But imagine playing Real with him and Ronaldo in the same team. Terrifying.

[Beefymcfc]

Well, I think the Aye's to the Right have it with 78% of the votes. From the vote, and the responses, it's clear that the Bananaman is well respected and could make it into the top 5, just not quite yet.

Although many can't argue against the top 2 in world football, what is interesting is that 7 people think that Bale is currently the 3rd best player in the world. They've placed him above the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Zlatan, Ribbery or even above the likes of Neymar, Falcao, and somewhat lesser, the likes of Van Pussy, Suarez and Juan Mata (I include Mata because I thought he was excellent last season).

Now, if I was looking for the current top player in a position then I'd be hard pushed to decide between Ribbery and Bale for that left-side berth as they both bring their qualities. That could then put him, at least with a shout, in my top team of players but on the whole I wouldn't put him above some of the players I've mentioned above, and that list isn't exhaustive.

Bale, for me, hasn't proved in the same way as many of the recognised top players have. He is starting to show signs though and last season performed in many of the higher rated games showing that he has the talent to go further up that table. But for now, top 3, 4 or 5, not a chance.

[Slim]

So to bring it back to the thread which we have drifted from a touch, is he the best in the world? I maintain in order for him to be the best in the world, or top three or wherever people believe he slots in, he would have to perform in a top team in order for us to compare and quantify it.

I could tell you Iniesta has placed top 4 or higher in the world POTY in the last four years and Bale will now have that opportunity.

[Beefymcfc]

So to bring it back to the thread which we have drifted from a touch, is he the best in the world? I maintain in order for him to be the best in the world, or top three or wherever people believe he slots in, he would have to perform in a top team in order for us to compare and quantify it.

I could tell you Iniesta has placed top 4 or higher in the world POTY in the last four years and Bale will now have that opportunity.

You're right mate, he still has to prove.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

There are some truly bizarre analogies in this topic. Bale would be great in Crystal Palace while Iniesta plays in Barcelona??? What the hell does that mean? Iniesta would be fucking amazing in Crystal Palace team. Thing is he would never end up there because he is world class player. Bale wouldn't end up there either. And what does it matter how well anyone would do there? Worlds best players tend to play in world's best teams for obvious reasons.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

There are some truly bizarre analogies in this topic. Bale would be great in Crystal Palace while Iniesta plays in Barcelona??? What the hell does that mean? Iniesta would be fucking amazing in Crystal Palace team. Thing is he would never end up there because he is world class player. Bale wouldn't end up there either. And what does it matter how well anyone would do there? Worlds best players tend to play in world's best teams for obvious reasons.

I felt I explained it well enough. Slim seemed to understand it.

Iniesta's looks great in a great team where players are on his wavelength. His game is based on the passing style that Barca play, everyone is so good on the ball, everyone has great movement and that means great players like Iniesta can flourish. He's part of the Barca jigsaw.
If you put him in a lesser team, where players couldn't pass the ball aswell, couldn't read his passes he wouldn't be as effective.

Put him at Crystal Palace for example and he wouldn't make the same impact, his teammates wouldn't make the same intelligent runs to open up space, they wouldn't be good enough to play pass and move and they wouldn't be able to anticipate his defence splitting passes as well.
He'd still be head and shoulders above everyone else but he needs a great team around him to play to his best.

Bale on the other hand is a greater individual threat. He does all the work, his goals are made by himself and he could do that for whatever team he played for. He doesn't need great players around him.

[dazby]

...as do Messi and Tranny, which is why they are 1 & 2.

[CHOPPERmcfc]

He has pace? Bollocks! He couldn't outrun Charlton Heston...

[Sideshow Bob]

There are some truly bizarre analogies in this topic. Bale would be great in Crystal Palace while Iniesta plays in Barcelona??? What the hell does that mean? Iniesta would be fucking amazing in Crystal Palace team. Thing is he would never end up there because he is world class player. Bale wouldn't end up there either. And what does it matter how well anyone would do there? Worlds best players tend to play in world's best teams for obvious reasons.

I felt I explained it well enough. Slim seemed to understand it.

Iniesta's looks great in a great team where players are on his wavelength. His game is based on the passing style that Barca play, everyone is so good on the ball, everyone has great movement and that means great players like Iniesta can flourish. He's part of the Barca jigsaw.
If you put him in a lesser team, where players couldn't pass the ball aswell, couldn't read his passes he wouldn't be as effective.

Put him at Crystal Palace for example and he wouldn't make the same impact, his teammates wouldn't make the same intelligent runs to open up space, they wouldn't be good enough to play pass and move and they wouldn't be able to anticipate his defence splitting passes as well.
He'd still be head and shoulders above everyone else but he needs a great team around him to play to his best.

Bale on the other hand is a greater individual threat. He does all the work, his goals are made by himself and he could do that for whatever team he played for. He doesn't need great players around him.

BRF, serious question: have you watched iniesta play?? He is fucking brilliant and it's not just down to their system. So much skill and creativity it's untrue. He would be a superstar wherever he played.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

There are some truly bizarre analogies in this topic. Bale would be great in Crystal Palace while Iniesta plays in Barcelona??? What the hell does that mean? Iniesta would be fucking amazing in Crystal Palace team. Thing is he would never end up there because he is world class player. Bale wouldn't end up there either. And what does it matter how well anyone would do there? Worlds best players tend to play in world's best teams for obvious reasons.

I felt I explained it well enough. Slim seemed to understand it.

Iniesta's looks great in a great team where players are on his wavelength. His game is based on the passing style that Barca play, everyone is so good on the ball, everyone has great movement and that means great players like Iniesta can flourish. He's part of the Barca jigsaw.
If you put him in a lesser team, where players couldn't pass the ball aswell, couldn't read his passes he wouldn't be as effective.

Put him at Crystal Palace for example and he wouldn't make the same impact, his teammates wouldn't make the same intelligent runs to open up space, they wouldn't be good enough to play pass and move and they wouldn't be able to anticipate his defence splitting passes as well.
He'd still be head and shoulders above everyone else but he needs a great team around him to play to his best.

Bale on the other hand is a greater individual threat. He does all the work, his goals are made by himself and he could do that for whatever team he played for. He doesn't need great players around him.

BRF, serious question: have you watched iniesta play?? He is fucking brilliant and it's not just down to their system. So much skill and creativity it's untrue. He would be a superstar wherever he played.

Exactly.
I don't get the Iniesta refernce at all.

[Original Dub]

Exactly.
I don't get the Iniesta refernce at all.

Me neither.

The poll doesn't lie.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

There are some truly bizarre analogies in this topic. Bale would be great in Crystal Palace while Iniesta plays in Barcelona??? What the hell does that mean? Iniesta would be fucking amazing in Crystal Palace team. Thing is he would never end up there because he is world class player. Bale wouldn't end up there either. And what does it matter how well anyone would do there? Worlds best players tend to play in world's best teams for obvious reasons.

I felt I explained it well enough. Slim seemed to understand it.

Iniesta's looks great in a great team where players are on his wavelength. His game is based on the passing style that Barca play, everyone is so good on the ball, everyone has great movement and that means great players like Iniesta can flourish. He's part of the Barca jigsaw.
If you put him in a lesser team, where players couldn't pass the ball aswell, couldn't read his passes he wouldn't be as effective.

Put him at Crystal Palace for example and he wouldn't make the same impact, his teammates wouldn't make the same intelligent runs to open up space, they wouldn't be good enough to play pass and move and they wouldn't be able to anticipate his defence splitting passes as well.
He'd still be head and shoulders above everyone else but he needs a great team around him to play to his best.

Bale on the other hand is a greater individual threat. He does all the work, his goals are made by himself and he could do that for whatever team he played for. He doesn't need great players around him.

BRF, serious question: have you watched iniesta play?? He is fucking brilliant and it's not just down to their system. So much skill and creativity it's untrue. He would be a superstar wherever he played.

What's the point in playing a defence splitting pass if his team mates aren't on the same wavelength and can't anticipate it?
You can't play great pass and move football if your team mates can't do the same. Put him at Stoke for example and tell me he'd be as good as he would be at Barca.
He's a wonderful player but his type of game really does need other players in the team to be up to a similar standard to get the best out of him.
Play him alongside Nzonzi and tell me he'd play just as well as he'd do with Xavi.

Bale edges it because he doesn't need a great team to be at his best because his goals are nearly always down to individual brilliance rather than finishing off a great team move.

To give an anology.. James Milner for example never plays aswell for England as he does for us. Why? Because he's an intelligent footballer who plays great pass and move football and link up play with the likes of Silva and Aguero and Toure etc. When he plays for England, they don't have players of this quality so when he tries to play 'football' there's no one to play with him, it's just lump ball into the box.

Same with Iniesta if he had to play for a lesser side.

[Slim]

Let's get this straight though.

Iniesta would make a team, let's say Hull, better. He would make all the players around him play better and the results of the team would improve. However unlike Bale, Iniesta does not have the ability to win a game off his own back. Some players can and that's a part of what makes them good or bad, but Iniesta is not one of those players.