Drop Hart? (NEW POLL AFTER CHELSEA FARCE))

[Green & Blue]

Which is more than you can say for Darren Fletcher.....

nice work

[Herb]

Joe is top of the stats

44% clean sheets - best prem keeper ever!

http://www.pinnaclesports.com/online-be ... epers.aspx

That clean sheet shite means next to nothing as it relies on the whole team keeping the ball and defending.
Quote me the stats for goals conceded against shots on target and I'll be impressed but will doubt to see Joe in the top 10 in the prem.
Just think to how many games you've seen where we've had 70% possession, 20 shots on goal and the opposition has had 4 shots on goal and the score's been say 2-1 to us. Or a la cardiff where we had almost total domination in possession, far more shots on their goal than they had on ours but Joe does his all to regular flapping at the ball thing and we lose because of it.
I think what we need to accept is that we can't afford to suffer an under performing goal keeper throwing games for us just because he had a great season in 2011/12.
Fact is that we'd be top of the pops already if we'd had Costel between the sticks (or indeed any one of a number of current prem keepers).

[Wonderwall]

That clean sheet shite means next to nothing as it relies on the whole team keeping the ball and defending.
Quote me the stats for goals conceded against shots on target and I'll be impressed but will doubt to see Joe in the top 10 in the prem.
Just think to how many games you've seen where we've had 70% possession, 20 shots on goal and the opposition has had 4 shots on goal and the score's been say 2-1 to us. Or a la cardiff where we had almost total domination in possession, far more shots on their goal than they had on ours but Joe does his all to regular flapping at the ball thing and we lose because of it.
I think what we need to accept is that we can't afford to suffer an under performing goal keeper throwing games for us just because he had a great season in 2011/12.
Fact is that we'd be top of the pops already if we'd had Costel between the sticks (or indeed any one of a number of current prem keepers).

Have you got the lottery numbers for tonight? Much appreciated

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Joe is top of the stats

44% clean sheets - best prem keeper ever!

http://www.pinnaclesports.com/online-be ... epers.aspx

That clean sheet shite means next to nothing as it relies on the whole team keeping the ball and defending.
Quote me the stats for goals conceded against shots on target and I'll be impressed but will doubt to see Joe in the top 10 in the prem.
Just think to how many games you've seen where we've had 70% possession, 20 shots on goal and the opposition has had 4 shots on goal and the score's been say 2-1 to us. Or a la cardiff where we had almost total domination in possession, far more shots on their goal than they had on ours but Joe does his all to regular flapping at the ball thing and we lose because of it.
I think what we need to accept is that we can't afford to suffer an under performing goal keeper throwing games for us just because he had a great season in 2011/12.
Fact is that we'd be top of the pops already if we'd had Costel between the sticks (or indeed any one of a number of current prem keepers).

That is not a fact Herb, it's an opinion. We don't know for certain that Costel would've pulled off that fantastic save from Campbell when Garcia misjudged that header. We don't know if Costel would've reacted as quick as Joe did to come off his line when the ball was lofted over Lescott's head and himself and Garcia couldn't catch Campbell. We also don't know if Costel would've been successful in getting through Gunnarson to get to the first corner we conceded from, Costel has been guilty of flapping in the past. Their first goal Joe pulled off a fantastic save at point blank range after Zaba had let Campbell go following on from 4 players watching Kim run into our box and square the ball but let's blame Joe for the defeat eh?

Fact is Hart had the joint fourth highest shot to save ratio in the PL last season. Cech, De Gea and Szczesny performed better in terms of shots saved. His form did take a dip last season as his saves went from 77% the season previous to 70%. The season before he also had a 77% save success rate. He does need to regain that form we all know he's capable of but please stop exaggerating and making a scapegoat of Joe, it's nearly as bad as the 'it's all Yaya's fault' brigade.

[Wonderwall]

That is not a fact Herb, it's an opinion. We don't know for certain that Costel would've pulled off that fantastic save from Campbell when Garcia misjudged that header. We don't know if Costel would've reacted as quick as Joe did to come off his line when the ball was lofted over Lescott's head and himself and Garcia couldn't catch Campbell. We also don't know if Costel would've been successful in getting through Gunnarson to get to the first corner we conceded from, Costel has been guilty of flapping in the past. Their first goal Joe pulled off a fantastic save at point blank range after Zaba had let Campbell go following on from 4 players watching Kim run into our box and square the ball but let's blame Joe for the defeat eh?

Fact is Hart had the joint fourth highest shot to save ratio in the PL last season. Cech, De Gea and Szczesny performed better in terms of shots saved. His form did take a dip last season as his saves went from 77% the season previous to 70%. The season before he also had a 77% save success rate. He does need to regain that form we all know he's capable of but please stop exaggerating and making a scapegoat of Joe, it's nearly as bad as the 'it's all Yaya's fault' brigade.

True, plus joe will not get any stats in his favour when he rushed out of goal against hull and made the striker put it wide when he was 1 v 1. What would Costel have done? Some people don't know what they have got until its gone or too late.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

True, plus joe will not get any stats in his favour when he rushed out of goal against hull and made the striker put it wide when he was 1 v 1. What would Costel have done? Some people don't know what they have got until its gone or too late.

That was a lovely bit of keeping that. Then again I did vote him motm :)

[Wonderwall]

That was a lovely bit of keeping that. Then again I did vote him motm :)

Me too, he was faultless for the hull game but it went unnoticed by the media

[Slim]

That was a lovely bit of keeping that. Then again I did vote him motm :)

Me too, he was faultless for the hull game but it went unnoticed by the media

Yes he was good, but as for faultless. Well you shouldn't really use a word if you don't know what it means.

[Hazy2]

No Komps is not the time for another change. Hart is a quality keeper, who needs to get his head down and we need to support me included.

[Wonderwall]

Yes he was good, but as for faultless. Well you shouldn't really use a word if you don't know what it means.

Aha so you dont think he was faultless....you think he was faulty?

[DoomMerchant]

Aha so you dont think he was faultless....you think he was faulty?

Fight. Fight. Fight.

[Herb]

Joe is top of the stats

44% clean sheets - best prem keeper ever!

http://www.pinnaclesports.com/online-be ... epers.aspx

That clean sheet shite means next to nothing as it relies on the whole team keeping the ball and defending.
Quote me the stats for goals conceded against shots on target and I'll be impressed but will doubt to see Joe in the top 10 in the prem.
Just think to how many games you've seen where we've had 70% possession, 20 shots on goal and the opposition has had 4 shots on goal and the score's been say 2-1 to us. Or a la cardiff where we had almost total domination in possession, far more shots on their goal than they had on ours but Joe does his all to regular flapping at the ball thing and we lose because of it.
I think what we need to accept is that we can't afford to suffer an under performing goal keeper throwing games for us just because he had a great season in 2011/12.
Fact is that we'd be top of the pops already if we'd had Costel between the sticks (or indeed any one of a number of current prem keepers).

That is not a fact Herb, it's an opinion. We don't know for certain that Costel would've pulled off that fantastic save from Campbell when Garcia misjudged that header. We don't know if Costel would've reacted as quick as Joe did to come off his line when the ball was lofted over Lescott's head and himself and Garcia couldn't catch Campbell. We also don't know if Costel would've been successful in getting through Gunnarson to get to the first corner we conceded from, Costel has been guilty of flapping in the past. Their first goal Joe pulled off a fantastic save at point blank range after Zaba had let Campbell go following on from 4 players watching Kim run into our box and square the ball but let's blame Joe for the defeat eh?

Fact is Hart had the joint fourth highest shot to save ratio in the PL last season. Cech, De Gea and Szczesny performed better in terms of shots saved. His form did take a dip last season as his saves went from 77% the season previous to 70%. The season before he also had a 77% save success rate. He does need to regain that form we all know he's capable of but please stop exaggerating and making a scapegoat of Joe, it's nearly as bad as the 'it's all Yaya's fault' brigade.

Hands up fella, I should have put a couple of IMO's in there (was tapping it into my phone while sat having a shit and didn't communicate it too well) so you're right. You've also provided stats and I like them (thanks). However, the stats, while not as bad as I'd guessed at, still do show that Joe is 4th in the performance standings amongst prem keepers (your fact not my opinion). . and I'm sure that you'll agree that isn't good enough for a team looking to finish in 1st place.
It's only my humble opinion but I firmly believe he should be dropped (should've been dropped before the end of last season and we would've at least won the fa cup if Costel had the gloves on).

As a team looking to achieve at the highest levels we can't afford to pander to a player who is so emotionally fragile that he can't be dropped, regardless of his iffy form - in my opinion of course :-)

[Beefymcfc]

All keepers make mistakes, it's how much they limit them that makes them a good keeper. A couple of points though, firstly, our play mustn't help the keeper out as there are long periods where he can just stand there and mong. Secondly, a solid back 4 helps a keeper with regard to understanding the defensive system. We've not had that for a while with players in and out for various reasons.

Joe is usually top drawer and last season was probably a bit of a letdown for him. There were other factors for a loss in form as well but we still kept the record for clean sheets (3 in a row). He is part of that.

I like Joe, he's got nice hair.

[steveo_88]

There's no reason to drop Joe just because he has a few weaknesses in his game, so do a lot of our other players, Joleon/Silva completely one footed and Zabba can be turned very easily when marking(see Cardiff game).

Against Cardiff Joe should have dealt with two balls that ended up as goals. A week later against Hull he came out and caught the ball twice and made three strong punches getting the ball far out of danger. Well done coaching staff for spotting the problem, working to correct it and then implementing on the field. Now we just need repetition and consistency from Joe. Joe's earned the right to be number one but he needs to continue to develop, if you drop and persist in benching him he won't do that. Micah took a long time to learn how to play fullback and only with the arrival of Mancini did he learn how to cross the halfway line and be productive. Players practice in training they learn from games!

[Saul Goodman]

Found this to be interesting. Couldn't copy the figures on my phone but the article still makes sense without them:

Last season, after Joe Hart's performance against Dortmund in the Champions League, many footballing icons were arguing that the Manchester City keeper was world class.

In November last year, Wayne Rooney even tweeted that he thought Hart was the best keeper in the world. But it hasn't been the dream start to the season for Hart this time around.

The Manchester City and England keeper continues to come under pressure for his performances in goal, with his recent appearances on the international stage certainly not inspiring a great deal of confidence.

It’s led many to question if Hart is a world class shot-stopper and whether or not he should be considered as an “elite” goalkeeper?


Have to say joe hart has been incredible. For me best keeper in the world
— Wayne Rooney (@WayneRooney) October 3, 2012


Last season, Hart finished with the most clean sheets out of any Premier League goalkeeper. His Performance Score of 882 was the fourth highest in the league—higher than the likes of Manchester United’s David De Gea, Tottenham Hotspur’s Hugo Lloris or Arsenal’s Wojciech Szczesny. The Englishman also succeeded in 95% of his attempted claims last year.

However, comparing Hart to other widely recognised elite keepers in Europe, such as Manuel Neuer, Gianluigi Buffon, Petr Cech and Iker Casillas, some interesting trends can be found.

Firstly, looking at the number of saves Hart made in comparison to the other elite keepers, it's clear that the Englishman was kept very busy throughout last season. Hart made 45 saves, the second highest out of the selection of players. This, alongside the fact that Hart kept the most clean-sheets suggests that the Man City keeper is an effective shot-stopper, able to save his team when their backs are against the wall.

The mobility of Hart is clearly visible within the stats too. Last term he made 27 diving saves, which shows that Hart is able to cover his goal effectively and has the reflexes to effectively shut out any danger that comes his way.

In terms of claiming the ball from crosses and other attacks, this is perhaps where Hart suffers. The Man City man, made 60 successful claims - not a bad tally.

However, when it comes to failed claims, Hart's vulnerability can be seen. The England keeper failed with three of his claims, only Casillas made more failed claims. This suggests that Hart struggles to dominate his area when the ball is in the air.

But it must be noted, three unsuccessful claims in 38 league games is not a bad record, it just shows this is an area of his game which needs a bit of work and polishing.

Now, focusing on goalkeeper distribution, this is quite clearly one of Hart's biggest weak points. The City number one had a 68% success rate, which was far worse than Cech, Neuer and Buffon.

Perhaps if Hart focused on his ball-playing abilities and improved in this department he would become more of an invaluable asset for Man City, especially with the attacking potential that they have. Last season, Hart had a 62% pass accuracy, only Cech had a lower pass accuracy (59%) out of the select keepers. Progress is needed in this area.

Possibly the most significant statistic for fans when it comes to keepers is defensive errors.

Last season, Hart made the most defensive errors out of the select keepers. Furthermore, he made double the errors that second place Petr Cech made. This is a massive problem for Man City and Hart.

In order to be considered as a top-class keeper, you simply cannot make a high number of mistakes, last-term five of the six errors Hart made lead to a goal being conceded.

Mistakes like this are extremely costly at the top of the table. To put Hart's defensive errors into perspective, he made the fifth highest errors in the Premier League last-term.

Compared to the more widely-recognised elite keepers in Europe, Joe Hart fares pretty well. He has one of the best clean sheet records in Europe, while he also makes a high number of saves, proving that he does make a significant contribution when Man City have to defend.

But as Hart's defensive errors, claim success and pass accuracy highlights, he still lacks some of the key components to be seen as an out-right world-class goalkeeper. But at 26, Hart certainly has the potential to grow into one of the best keepers on the planet. But the England international needs to show more consistency and versatility in his game.

[I Just Blue Myself]

Also, nothing new to anyone who has a set of eyes. Also, where did you copy it from? Also, the last paragraph is an anaphoric nightmare.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

Also, nothing new to anyone who has a set of eyes. Also, where did you copy it from? Also, the last paragraph is an anaphoric nightmare.

Made me chuckle, that did.

[Saul Goodman]

Don't shoot the messenger. I enjoyed the stats

[Goataldo]

I can't help but hear HAL's voice when reading that. 'Progress is needed in this area'. Interesting analysis though, balanced, and can't really argue with any of it. Good read.

[johnny crossan]

Young Brad provides the ammo

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