Rags Gutted Mancini Has Gone.

[Wonderwall]

no matter what Mancini's shortcomings are/were, I dont know a blue on the planet that doesnt like reliving that moment 93:20

it might not get like that with pellers

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Mancini was too defensively minded. I felt that we won the league in spite of him rather than because of him. The players seemed to have thrown off his defensive tactics and gone on the offensive and we roared to the top and stayed there.
Last season I felt the he and the team weren't always in synch and by the Cup Final didn't really want to play for him. In fact, after he was sacked, one player was quoted as saying that the only downside to winning the league was that Mancini would continue as manager.

Who was quoted as saying that? Can you direct me to a link where I can read said quote?

At the start of the title winning season when we were playing such sublime football were the players ignoring his tactics and just going on the offensive?

Does the fact that he dropped the extra holding midfielder not indicate his tactics were more offensive?

Considering last season perhaps it was time for him to go but some of the bollox I'm reading on this thread is the type of shite I'd expect to read on the likes of CaughtOffside or Bleacher Report.

[Im_Spartacus]

Who was quoted as saying that? Can you direct me to a link where I can read said quote? At the start of the title winning season when we were playing such sublime football were the players ignoring his tactics and just going on the offensive? Does the fact that he dropped the extra holding midfielder not indicate his tactics were more offensive? Considering last season perhaps it was time for him to go but some of the bollox I'm reading on this thread is the type of shite I'd expect to read on the likes of CaughtOffside or Bleacher Report.

He might have brought a premier league title and an fa cup home, but the point of many on this thread, is that many other managers could have done the same, without the level of disruption/aggravation caused to achieve it - and in the cold light of day....he did a job for the phase the club were in when he took over, no more no less.

Incidentally, against qpr, what you said about ignoring his instructions and playing offensively is exactly what happened.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Who was quoted as saying that? Can you direct me to a link where I can read said quote? At the start of the title winning season when we were playing such sublime football were the players ignoring his tactics and just going on the offensive? Does the fact that he dropped the extra holding midfielder not indicate his tactics were more offensive? Considering last season perhaps it was time for him to go but some of the bollox I'm reading on this thread is the type of shite I'd expect to read on the likes of CaughtOffside or Bleacher Report.

He might have brought a premier league title and an fa cup home, but the point of many on this thread, is that many other managers could have done the same, without the level of disruption/aggravation caused to achieve it - and in the cold light of day....he did a job for the phase the club were in when he took over, no more no less.

Incidentally, against qpr, what you said about ignoring his instructions and playing offensively is exactly what happened.

Pointless argument mate as we will never know for sure what any other manager would have or wouldn't have done in Mancini's position.

Against QPR? Are you talking about the last day of the season? The game where he had three strikers on the pitch at the end? Do you honestly think at 2-1 down Mancini didn't want them to play offensively? If so that's taking the criticism to a bizarre level.

[Im_Spartacus]

Pointless argument mate as we will never know for sure what any other manager would have or wouldn't have done in Mancini's position.

Against QPR? Are you talking about the last day of the season? The game where he had three strikers on the pitch at the end? Do you honestly think at 2-1 down Mancini didn't want them to play offensively? If so that's taking the criticism to a bizarre level.

Appreciate what you're saying, but by that logic, should we not even debate whether we should have done better in the fa cup final, got a point in the champions league, or blown a huge lead in the title race, or capitulate against a far inferior squad in the league last season? Thats just last season, without even touching on his antics in 2010 run in which blew any chance of champions league football for us the following season.

I find it inconceivable to think that a proven, quality manager (which we are told Mancini was) like Ancelotti, Mourinho, Ferguson, would have failed to hit any of the club's targets in 50% of the 4 seasons Mancini finished in charge, and that is why rag fans are not happy he has gone.

Re: QPR, I take it you are not aware of lescotts comments on the subject? The point being that at 93 minutes he was still screaming at players to stay back - at that point, with nothing less than a win needed, whats the fucking point? Do you think Ferguson would have been telling schmeichel to stay back at that point, let alone his two big aerial threats?

Imagine we had not scored and you heard that story? Would you have felt differently?

Thats the difference illustrated right there - he never had the ability to go balls out at anything, eg, he almost certainly held us back due to his own conservatism. Amazing really for a player who himself was so talented going forward.

[zabbadabbado]

Mancini was too defensively minded. I felt that we won the league in spite of him rather than because of him. The players seemed to have thrown off his defensive tactics and gone on the offensive and we roared to the top and stayed there.
Last season I felt the he and the team weren't always in synch and by the Cup Final didn't really want to play for him. In fact, after he was sacked, one player was quoted as saying that the only downside to winning the league was that Mancini would continue as manager.

don't know about the last part but I agree with more or less everything else you said. We started the 11/12 season on fire, dzeko scoring all round him, then gets dropped. Aguero came in and was excellent until (my opinion anyway) Mancini's slow methodical training methods caused Aguero to lose his instinct and speed of thought. around xmas our play had become so slow with very little movement, the players just seemed to be dropping off, maybe not enough intensity in training. The only time we seemed to get a rocket up our arse was when tevez came back and rejuvenated the squad and the attacking third (probably because he hadn't spent the previous six months working through mancini's tedious training sessions). the 12/13 season went much the same way as the bad parts of the previous season, we were poor, finished second in a very poor league, were embarrassed in the CL and overall looked to be regressing.

Its a bit to early to judge Pellegrini but he seems to be doing everything right. Even when the results were not going right, the players were still coming out and saying that "they know what they are working on in training will come good" or "we are changing the way we play and it takes time". The players seem to have bought into Pellegrini and that is no different to what other past players have said about him too, so I have confidence that we are moving in the right direction. Pellegrini has sat down with the players and sought their opinion on where they are happiest playing and treated them with respect, Mancini didn't, he thought that we should be able to change to a back 3 having never worked on it in training and expect players to adapt and if they didn't he publically said they were not top players, great morale booster there. Mancini was a world class player and the game was so simple to him, I don't think he could ever understand how some players couldn't grasp it, but as a manager he is not world class and before anyone claims his record states differently then why wasn't he offered some of the bigger jobs that have come up recently in Europe.

A good post that mate.

I don't think anyone can argue that some players looked like what were good at was being coached out of them.

All i am hearing about Pellegrini is good things,a good coach, and a thoroughly decent bloke and well respected.

He deserves time no matter what, if we can play the type of football we have been playing lately on a consistent basis then they had better hurry up and stick them new seats in because it will be a shut out every week.

I was a firm Mancini inner.I now realize that my judgement was impaired,probably because i am old enough to remember the revolving door at City under Swales.Sacked manager always resulted in upheaval and turmoil.These days our circumstances are much different,we are not sacking one clown for another clown we are upgrading a half decent manager,(Ted called it right he made us hard to beat and was the right man at the right time) for a good manager.Many well respected players x players in the game think our appointment was a shrewd one.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Pointless argument mate as we will never know for sure what any other manager would have or wouldn't have done in Mancini's position.

Against QPR? Are you talking about the last day of the season? The game where he had three strikers on the pitch at the end? Do you honestly think at 2-1 down Mancini didn't want them to play offensively? If so that's taking the criticism to a bizarre level.

Appreciate what you're saying, but by that logic, should we not even debate whether we should have done better in the fa cup final, got a point in the champions league, or blown a huge lead in the title race, or capitulate against a far inferior squad in the league last season? Thats just last season, without even touching on his antics in 2010 run in which blew any chance of champions league football for us the following season.

I find it inconceivable to think that a proven, quality manager (which we are told Mancini was) like Ancelotti, Mourinho, Ferguson, would have failed to hit any of the club's targets in 50% of the 4 seasons Mancini finished in charge, and that is why rag fans are not happy he has gone.

Re: QPR, I take it you are not aware of lescotts comments on the subject? The point being that at 93 minutes he was still screaming at players to stay back - at that point, with nothing less than a win needed, whats the fucking point? Do you think Ferguson would have been telling schmeichel to stay back at that point, let alone his two big aerial threats?

Imagine we had not scored and you heard that story? Would you have felt differently?

Thats the difference illustrated right there - he never had the ability to go balls out at anything, eg, he almost certainly held us back due to his own conservatism. Amazing really for a player who himself was so talented going forward.

You're right, I'm not aware of Lescott's comments. Is there a quote from Lescott? I'm genuinely intrigued.

I'm not arguing that Mancini wasn't conservative in his approach ( although I do believe some exaggerate wildly about how conservative he was, especially in the title winning year ), but like Ted has suggested,I believe he was exactly what we needed to sort out the wasters in our dressing room and bring us kicking and screaming to a title win. I think he deserves respect for the job he did at City.

[zabbadabbado]

Rags truly gutted that Mancini has gone ? Was enjoying a few pints with a couple of gutted Rags after we annihilated them in the Derby, when I was shocked by their very revealing opinions. They thought that Mancini was actually holding us back and really are genuinely gutted that he has gone, I mean wtf? I explained that Mancini brought us our first title in 44 years and deserves some credit, yet they still think we should have romped the League the Season we won it. They also think they them selves have been in decline for a few seasons not strengthening in key areas knowing players were too old and are very pessimistic about their future. They are now genuinely fearful that we will reach our true potential with the shackles taken off the team. They honestly believe our football is going to blow all away if we continue to play this fast paced attacking game.( nice to hear) Was Mancini really that bad for us though ?,am I delusional ?,I have to be honest i was shocked hearing RAGS say they wanted Mancini to stay at our club because most off them think he was a clueless Cnut. I actualy thought he was a half decent manager ? I have to say though I have not enjoyed football like I have the last 3 games for a while. I think the football has been something special, well done Manuel and the boys and long may it continue. It is nice to see all the players smiling and enjoying the game. great stuff.

Honestly, many of us have said you were delusional over mancini....amd it shouldnt take a few rags to make you see the blindingly obvious.

I dont reckon pellegrini is the second coming, and mancini is history now, but its hard not to raise the issues:
1: the rags couldnt believe their luck that they even got a sniff the year we won the league
2: the rags couldnt believe their luck that we were as poor as we were relative to the ability in our squad last year.

Its why in the cold light of day, when you look at Mancinis reign impartially, it was not as successful as it could have been, and had limp failure at both the beginning and the end of his reign, and a success that in reality, nobody will ever know whether we deserved it or the rags blew it.......for me the fa cup was the only thing i can credit him 100% with. It also brings his success in italy into question, in that his league titles came in a very one sided league, managing the best team with the opposition decimated by sanctions.

Had ferguson not been around, mancini arguably could have won the league year after year in this country, we would all have said he was amazing for bringing the silverware home, and been blind to the fact that the achievement wasn't quite what we were making it out to have been.

It seems throughout his career he's a flat track bully of a manager, (although undoubtedly a great domestic cup manager) and not a particularly good tactician. Who knows what we COULD have achieved With seemingly the polar opposite in charge now, how will it pan out, who knows?

I accept i was wrong.

tbh I have heard a lot about Mancini these last few weeks that had already challenged my belief that we should have kept him.Stories off him spending so much time in Italy that he couldn't even be arsed to watch the opposition,some times flying out literally after the final whistle and not returning until a Wednesday Thursday( the we never prepared properly) before a game not once or twice but quite a lot,dummy spitting in games by setting us all wrong to make a point to the Spaniards,even worse he was apparently a divisive character behind the scenes ,ignoring some players and singling certain other players out all the time whilst protecting Ballotelli.The players on the whole were glad to see the back off him.Could all be bollocks,but for me there's no smoke without fire,and the fact he is still unemployed does make me wonder a bit.

I am also led to believe that contrary to popular belief, he was not sacked for finishing second either and it was with a heavy heart that he was sacked, there would have been a mass exodus of players who wanted out if he had stayed at the club. his bitching and sniping at the board and washing his linen in public had become embarrassing to the club so they got rid.

When a book is done it should be a good read.

[Im_Spartacus]

You're right, I'm not aware of Lescott's comments. Is there a quote from Lescott? I'm genuinely intrigued. I'm not arguing that Mancini wasn't conservative in his approach ( although I do believe some exaggerate wildly about how conservative he was, especially in the title winning year ), but like Ted has suggested,I believe he was exactly what we needed to sort out the wasters in our dressing room and bring us kicking and screaming to a title win. I think he deserves respect for the job he did at City.

Yeah he did an interview during the summer after, may even have been soccer am, and it didnt seem he was talking maliciously, more caught up in the excitement of it all, and he said that him and vinny pretended they couldnt hear him going mad on the touchline and went forward anyway.

Career suicide if you ask me, he was never first choice again after that.

Although I always disliked his style, I dont begrudge him what he won, although my views are further clouded by some knowledge of what went on at carrington, Whilst I was back in the uk this summer, I met up with a family member who works extremely closely with the players, and some of the stories they were prepared to tell now he was gone were genuinely toe curling in terms of how he dealt with the players, the arguments (which of course took place in english), and on occasions the physical confrontations inside carrington really makes me wonder how we achieved anything under him, and how the 'mutiny' took so long.

Interestingly, looking forwards not back, the same person said that the jury is out on pellegrini at the moment too, with the comment just being that 'he does things differently to Mancini'. No sign that he is the players' best mate as some would make out.

[Im_Spartacus]

I accept i was wrong. tbh I have heard a lot about Mancini these last few weeks that had already challenged my belief that we should have kept him.Stories off him spending so much time in Italy that he couldn't even be arsed to watch the opposition,some times flying out literally after the final whistle and not returning until a Wednesday Thursday( the we never prepared properly) before a game not once or twice but quite a lot,dummy spitting in games by setting us all wrong to make a point to the Spaniards,even worse he was apparently a divisive character behind the scenes ,ignoring some players and singling certain other players out all the time whilst protecting Ballotelli.The players on the whole were glad to see the back off him.Could all be bollocks,but for me there's no smoke without fire,and the fact he is still unemployed does make me wonder a bit. I am also led to believe that contrary to popular belief, he was not sacked for finishing second either and it was with a heavy heart that he was sacked, there would have been a mass exodus of players who wanted out if he had stayed at the club. his bitching and sniping at the board and washing his linen in public had become embarrassing to the club so they got rid. When a book is done it should be a good read.

See my post above, about the backroom stuff. Whilst a lot of the stuff that has come out has been in the media from an unnamed source, its not wide of the mark and has almost certainly been leaked either by the club in the immediate aftermath of the sacking, as the stories which came out were some of the less contentious ones.

There were very regular shouting matches, with some players in particular being involved regularly, and a physical confrontation occurred with at least 5 players in the carrington offices. Many of the earlier dissenters like bellamy were just shipped out, but eventually he had alienated almost everybody to the point that we wouldnt have had a team if he had got his way of getting rid of some of our crown jewels.

He will get another job, but I cant see him getting another top job where he can win leagues just by having the best players thus not showing up his tactical frailties, and you will soon see his limitations then - and thats why he will never be successful in europe.

Sad end to a great era for us blues really

[Ted Hughes]

I accept i was wrong. tbh I have heard a lot about Mancini these last few weeks that had already challenged my belief that we should have kept him.Stories off him spending so much time in Italy that he couldn't even be arsed to watch the opposition,some times flying out literally after the final whistle and not returning until a Wednesday Thursday( the we never prepared properly) before a game not once or twice but quite a lot,dummy spitting in games by setting us all wrong to make a point to the Spaniards,even worse he was apparently a divisive character behind the scenes ,ignoring some players and singling certain other players out all the time whilst protecting Ballotelli.The players on the whole were glad to see the back off him.Could all be bollocks,but for me there's no smoke without fire,and the fact he is still unemployed does make me wonder a bit. I am also led to believe that contrary to popular belief, he was not sacked for finishing second either and it was with a heavy heart that he was sacked, there would have been a mass exodus of players who wanted out if he had stayed at the club. his bitching and sniping at the board and washing his linen in public had become embarrassing to the club so they got rid. When a book is done it should be a good read.

See my post above, about the backroom stuff. Whilst a lot of the stuff that has come out has been in the media from an unnamed source, its not wide of the mark and has almost certainly been leaked either by the club in the immediate aftermath of the sacking, as the stories which came out were some of the less contentious ones.

There were very regular shouting matches, with some players in particular being involved regularly, and a physical confrontation occurred with at least 5 players in the carrington offices. Many of the earlier dissenters like bellamy were just shipped out, but eventually he had alienated almost everybody to the point that we wouldnt have had a team if he had got his way of getting rid of some of our crown jewels.

He will get another job, but I cant see him getting another top job where he can win leagues just by having the best players thus not showing up his tactical frailties, and you will soon see his limitations then - and thats why he will never be successful in europe.

Sad end to a great era for us blues really

Be interesting to see what happens regarding that, but I would have thought that if a club with good resources has found it difficult to win trophies over a period, then a dose of Mancini would be the ideal medicine.

I wouldn't give him much hope of turning Villa or Everton into contenders, but if he took over at rags or Chelsea (assuming rags had some cash to spend) I recon he would give us a serious run for our money in the short term (then be fired a couple of years later because everybody hated him).

[Im_Spartacus]

Be interesting to see what happens regarding that, but I would have thought that if a club with good resources has found it difficult to win trophies over a period, then a dose of Mancini would be the ideal medicine. I wouldn't give him much hope of turning Villa or Everton into contenders, but if he took over at rags or Chelsea (assuming rags had some cash to spend) I recon he would give us a serious run for our money in the short term (then be fired a couple of years later because everybody hated him).

I think he's a chequebook manager, or a manager who needs to have the best players to win. I dont see any evidence that he improved us as a team, other than bringing incrementally better players in who were good enough, playing under simple tactics, to win stuff sporadically with a battering ram, hit and miss approach to getting results.

Even at the rags, who probably have some financial muscle still, he would not have had the chance to just ignore and bomb out santa cruz, adebayor, robinho, bridge etc at massive losses. Fuck me, can you imagine his face after his forst training session being told he has to keep young, cleverly, and nani, and he can only buy 2 players for a max of £40m - we all saw his reaction to those controls last season with the idiotic signings we ended up making.

Thats not the way a well run club operates, and he would be told he has to manage the players, not just fuck them off if he doesnt like them. So i can only really see him having one last bite of the cherry with either monaco or psg in the short term, otherwise he will have to actually get round to the business of taking over a team, and improving it organically through his coaching, tactics and motivation - at least 2 of which clearly arent his strong point.

[Im_Spartacus]

I think he's a chequebook manager, or a manager who needs to have the best players to win. I dont see any evidence that he improved us as a team, other than bringing incrementally better players in who were good enough, playing under simple tactics, to win stuff sporadically with a battering ram, hit and miss approach to getting results. Even at the rags, who probably have some financial muscle still, he would not have had the chance to just ignore and bomb out santa cruz, adebayor, robinho, bridge etc at massive losses. Fuck me, can you imagine his face after his forst training session being told he has to keep young, cleverly, and nani, and he can only buy 2 players for a max of £40m - we all saw his reaction to those controls last season with the idiotic signings we ended up making. Thats not the way a well run club operates, and he would be told he has to manage the players, not just fuck them off if he doesnt like them. So i can only really see him having one last bite of the cherry with either monaco or psg in the short term, otherwise he will have to actually get round to the business of taking over a team, and improving it organically through his coaching, tactics and motivation - at least 2 of which clearly arent his strong point.

[dazby]

Sparty, if you can't see the defensive improvements he made to us, then there's not much hope for you. Come on, you're better than that.

[Tokyo Blue]

Sparty, if you can't see the defensive improvements he made to us, then there's not much hope for you. Come on, you're better than that.

I was just about to say the same thing.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

This is fucking embarrasing topic. Some of the stuff here like "should've won league by 15 points" are nothing short of idiotic. Too much video games. "I never lost a game in FIFA playing on semi-pro settings".

[john68]

Sparty, if you can't see the defensive improvements he made to us, then there's not much hope for you. Come on, you're better than that.

We can only post to the limit of our awareness, so obviously not.

[Im_Spartacus]

Sparty, if you can't see the defensive improvements he made to us, then there's not much hope for you. Come on, you're better than that.

Course I can, he turned us from a shambles at the back into a great defensive unit.

Look, I'm not unable to give him praise, the basic issue is though that aside from a 2 month spell in 2011, he never got the team to perform better than the sum of he parts.

Because that's what great managers do, and that's the whole point of the thread isn't it - if he had done that, irrespective of his methods, he would still be the manager for a long time to come and you'd have had no argument from me.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

A chequebook manager? For fuck sake you're starting to sound like 'Arry Redknapp now. He spent around €30million net with Inter in 4 years.

As for the stuff that went on behind closed doors, I'm not naive enough to take it as gospel as some seem so willing to do but I do accept there's no smoke without fire, not that all that matters a jot really, it's results that matter not being a big happy family.

One last thing Sparty, how can a manager that took us from a ninth placed finish to winning the league within 3 years not have improved us as a team? Come on mate, you're going way ott in your criticism.

[Breks]

Our defence improved under bobs management. However i always felt he held us back. With a better manager i think we could have won the league in the 2010-11 season when the rags won it with only 80 points. With the squad we have had for last 3 years it would have taken the worst manager alive to not win anything.