Rags Gutted Mancini Has Gone.

[BlueinBosnia]

This won in spite of him bollox is just crap. He had to breed a winning mentality into this club before he could challenge, that's a very difficult task.

If he bred it into the team, he also bred it out of it. I'd say it's even harder to do both, unless you intentionally do the latter.

[Socrates]

I am sure that most rags are far more pissed off at their own managerial change than ours...

[AG7]

I am sure that most rags are far more pissed off at their own managerial change than ours...

Well said ...

[Beefymcfc]

I bet they were ;-)

[youtube]_84PP23pDl4[/youtube]

[Beefymcfc]

This won in spite of him bollox is just crap. He had to breed a winning mentality into this club before he could challenge, that's a very difficult task.

I will never understand a Blue that could criticise on such a level. Fucking barking in my opinion.

[Chopper]

I am sure that most rags are far more pissed off at their own managerial change than ours...

Chopper likes this.

[Im_Spartacus]

In response to made and fibd from a couple of pages back, all that seems to be being said here, is that the resources he had at his disposal were underused for much of his time in charge.

Yes, going from 9th to 5th, then 5th to 3rd, the. 3rd to 1st is a nice journey, but it totally ignores the impact of the best part of £200m and players like Silva, Toure, Aguero, had on the overall potential of the squad.

Both the manager and the improved playing squad played their part to some extent, and mobody will ever be able to apportion exactly what influence held the most away.

But in the cold light of day, his first and particularly his last seasons were characterised by a stubborn adherence to tactics which didn't win games. That fore suggests that in this two seasons, we underperformed, and that was as much down to Mancini's shortcomings as any other factor.

In the year we won the league, it was a level of performance over the full season that personally I thought was about right for a squad of our ability - the fact that ferguson pushed him all the way, with a far inferior squad, then saw him off the season after shows the difference between Mancini and a great manager, one getting above par performances from a less talented squad, and one getting an embarrassment of riches performing massively below par much of the time.

[Beefymcfc]

In response to made and fibd from a couple of pages back, all that seems to be being said here, is that the resources he had at his disposal were underused for much of his time in charge.

Yes, going from 9th to 5th, then 5th to 3rd, the. 3rd to 1st is a nice journey, but it totally ignores the impact of the best part of £200m and players like Silva, Toure, Aguero, had on the overall potential of the squad.

Both the manager and the improved playing squad played their part to some extent, and mobody will ever be able to apportion exactly what influence held the most away.

But in the cold light of day, his first and particularly his last seasons were characterised by a stubborn adherence to tactics which didn't win games. That fore suggests that in this two seasons, we underperformed, and that was as much down to Mancini's shortcomings as any other factor.

In the year we won the league, it was a level of performance over the full season that personally I thought was about right for a squad of our ability - the fact that ferguson pushed him all the way, with a far inferior squad, then saw him off the season after shows the difference between Mancini and a great manager, one getting above par performances from a less talented squad, and one getting an embarrassment of riches performing massively below par much of the time.

Fucking hell, see what I mean.

If you cannot enjoy that I haven't got a scoobies. His 1st season, his last, have you heard yourself.

Like I say, it's all about opinion and yours is just juvenile and wrong.

Of course, I'm just a cunt who enjoyed all that period, that progression over 3 years that took us to from nowhere to somewhere, but those 2 years, as you see it eh? I even enjoyed the last as I wasn't expecting too much. Jeez!

Pathetic.

PS. I'm no Mancini licker or Pellers hater, I'm just a City fan, but from what you have said we are runwaway Premier League Champions (at least 10 points), FA Cup winners, League Cup runners up with a sprinkling of Champions League finalists, we are that good.

You said it (from the last 2 seasons), our ability, and squad, is that good that nobody should be standing in our way.

I'll love it (Keegan'eqsue) if we do it but at the same time I'll hold you to this come the end of the season.

No pressure.

[dazby]

I'm an xbox man actually. And how do you know i couldn't? I have coaching experience. So you don't know for a fact i couldn't of done.

Hi Carlos, meet your new manager. He coached the Rusholme u15's to 3rd place last season so we know you'll have lots of respect for him. Yes Mario, you and Breks will get on just fine, he says "bite me" whenever someone challenges him. And yes Mr Vieira, Breks has done it on the world Xbox stage, so I'm sure you'll agree with his half time analysis and second half strategies. You'll believe him and want to give your all for him when he asks you to dig deeper.

Yes Breks, you could have won the league, and done everything else better. Without a doubt.

[zabbadabbado]

I think all City fans respect what Roberto Mancini did for us. I and many others were very sad to see him go. He gave me the best day off my life, the last time I had cried at a City game previously was Liverpool at home when we were playing for a draw and got relegated, tears off happiness a strange feeling all those years off piss taking and pain gone in an instant. Us older fans once had to have very thick skin wearing a City shirt

I still find it very strange though that RAGS fans mostly think he has held our development back and now fear us more as a force now he has gone. Unbiased RAGS think we should have romped the league last season because their side is in decline, and in our title winning year they should never have been as close as they were in the end.

As they say the proof is in the pudding, this season will tell us all we need to know.

[ant london]

I will forever think of Mancini very very fondly for what he did and what he gave us.

BUT if you cannot see that he was massively flawed and that:

- we very nearly did throw the title winning season away when we should have romped it

- that last season was a farce and

- he routinely had the squad performing at way way less than the sum of its parts in terms of quality due to his handling of the players

Then you are being willfully blind to things staring you right in the face. If you want to do that then that's your choice but there is no need to call and slag those who can remain more objective whilst still fully supporting the team

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

A question for the the pro Mancini camp as I enjoy these retrospective debates. Do you ever see him getting a better/similar stature job than the one he had at City. Do you ever see him winning another top domestic league title or Champions League winner? For me, I see him managing in Russia at one of the petro dollar clubs. His best bet at getting another chance at the top table is to take over at Madrid or Chelsea during one of their annual manager changes as a short term fix but I just do not see him getting another job at the level he had with us.

I don't understand "pro-Mancini camp". In any sensible world we would all be in that camp. I mean whether he would've been right man to take us forward is whole another discussion but to belittle his achievements with us is not only to belittle him as a manager but to put down OUR OWN finest moments as a club.

Mancini had his well documented weaknesses and no, he couldn't won treble+ league cup with 30 point margin (who even gives a shit in retrospect with how many points we won it?) but he was fantastic manager for us who and there's no need to diminish his record with this revisionistic crap.

To answer your questions,
A) it's debatable whether there are many better jobs in world football but our spoiled fans look his record the wrong way. If I were nouveau rich owner looking to improve my team fast he'd be in my shortlist for sure. He will never go to either of Spanish giants though because those are essentially puppet jobs. Mancini is old school my way or the highway manager. Just like arguably best active manager in the world, Mourinho. Funnily enough, the circumstances where Mourinho left Chelsea weren't all that different to Mancini's departure. The reasons were almost identical. Sometjing to consider.

B) absolutely. Just look at his fucking record. I mean it. Go and check it out. You can compare it to our current manager for example (and no way is this anti-Pellegrini post). Mancini's record in domestic leagues and cups doesn't shy in comparison to ANY active manager. In fact, I'd dare anyone to give me list of five more succesfull managers.

[dazby]

A question for the the pro Mancini camp as I enjoy these retrospective debates. Do you ever see him getting a better/similar stature job than the one he had at City. Do you ever see him winning another top domestic league title or Champions League winner? For me, I see him managing in Russia at one of the petro dollar clubs. His best bet at getting another chance at the top table is to take over at Madrid or Chelsea during one of their annual manager changes as a short term fix but I just do not see him getting another job at the level he had with us.

I don't understand "pro-Mancini camp". In any sensible world we would all be in that camp. I mean whether he would've been right man to take us forward is whole another discussion but to belittle his achievements with us is not only to belittle him as a manager but to put down OUR OWN finest moments as a club.

Mancini had his well documented weaknesses and no, he couldn't won treble+ league cup with 30 point margin (who even gives a shit in retrospect with how many points we won it?) but he was fantastic manager for us who and there's no need to diminish his record with this revisionistic crap.

To answer your questions,
A) it's debatable whether there are many better jobs in world football but our spoiled fans look his record the wrong way. If I were nouveau rich owner looking to improve my team fast he'd be in my shortlist for sure. He will never go to either of Spanish giants though because those are essentially puppet jobs. Mancini is old school my way or the highway manager. Just like arguably best active manager in the world, Mourinho. Funnily enough, the circumstances where Mourinho left Chelsea weren't all that different to Mancini's departure. The reasons were almost identical. Sometjing to consider.

B) absolutely. Just look at his fucking record. I mean it. Go and check it out. You can compare it to our current manager for example (and no way is this anti-Pellegrini post). Mancini's record in domestic leagues and cups doesn't shy in comparison to ANY active manager. In fact, I'd dare anyone to give me list of five more succesfull managers.

By your logic shouldn't we all have been in the Pro Leslie camp as well?

[Scatman]

In retrospect, no, as he didn't provide the greatest moments of the club. It's okay to hate him now but woe be tied anyone who thinks mancini wasn't up to the job

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

A question for the the pro Mancini camp as I enjoy these retrospective debates. Do you ever see him getting a better/similar stature job than the one he had at City. Do you ever see him winning another top domestic league title or Champions League winner? For me, I see him managing in Russia at one of the petro dollar clubs. His best bet at getting another chance at the top table is to take over at Madrid or Chelsea during one of their annual manager changes as a short term fix but I just do not see him getting another job at the level he had with us.

I don't understand "pro-Mancini camp". In any sensible world we would all be in that camp. I mean whether he would've been right man to take us forward is whole another discussion but to belittle his achievements with us is not only to belittle him as a manager but to put down OUR OWN finest moments as a club.

Mancini had his well documented weaknesses and no, he couldn't won treble+ league cup with 30 point margin (who even gives a shit in retrospect with how many points we won it?) but he was fantastic manager for us who and there's no need to diminish his record with this revisionistic crap.

To answer your questions,
A) it's debatable whether there are many better jobs in world football but our spoiled fans look his record the wrong way. If I were nouveau rich owner looking to improve my team fast he'd be in my shortlist for sure. He will never go to either of Spanish giants though because those are essentially puppet jobs. Mancini is old school my way or the highway manager. Just like arguably best active manager in the world, Mourinho. Funnily enough, the circumstances where Mourinho left Chelsea weren't all that different to Mancini's departure. The reasons were almost identical. Sometjing to consider.

B) absolutely. Just look at his fucking record. I mean it. Go and check it out. You can compare it to our current manager for example (and no way is this anti-Pellegrini post). Mancini's record in domestic leagues and cups doesn't shy in comparison to ANY active manager. In fact, I'd dare anyone to give me list of five more succesfull managers.

By your logic shouldn't we all have been in the Pro Leslie camp as well?

You mean because Hughes made history by winning us cups and league titles.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ON ABOUT???

[Im_Spartacus]

Fucking hell, see what I mean. If you cannot enjoy that I haven't got a scoobies. His 1st season, his last, have you heard yourself. Like I say, it's all about opinion and yours is just juvenile and wrong. Of course, I'm just a cunt who enjoyed all that period, that progression over 3 years that took us to from nowhere to somewhere, but those 2 years, as you see it eh? I even enjoyed the last as I wasn't expecting too much. Jeez! Pathetic. PS. I'm no Mancini licker or Pellers hater, I'm just a City fan, but from what you have said we are runwaway Premier League Champions (at least 10 points), FA Cup winners, League Cup runners up with a sprinkling of Champions League finalists, we are that good. You said it (from the last 2 seasons), our ability, and squad, is that good that nobody should be standing in our way. I'll love it (Keegan'eqsue) if we do it but at the same time I'll hold you to this come the end of the season. No pressure.

Seems on the flip side beefy, you just want to be an obstinate cunt and totally ignored the point being made.

Who said anything about 'not enjoying', about 'runaway league winners'? Certainly not me, but you seem to want to paint a critical view as an extreme, when all it is, is a critical view that you dont like because it is different to your own. Come back with some fucking substance to your argument mate, because whats pathetic is your response based on 'we won some trophies so i dont want to discuss ANYTHING negative about that period"

Whilst i get your mentality/views, its a small time attitude for the reality of where the club is today. Winning trophies doesnt make everything else disappear, and there will be occasions in the future too where winning a trophy papers over underlying problems

The question I raised, is the level of contribution the manager has at any given time vs the level of contribution just having good players has. This isnt just applicable to city and Mancini, its applicable to any club and any manager.

Let me give you a couple of examples.

Example 1 - Real Madrid
Real Madrid have consistently has a policy of buying up all the superstars and at any given time have a fantastic squad of players. They change their manager every other season, and with it half a dozen new players. So it should follow from the stabilitiy theory, that the new players would need time to gel and the manager would need time to impart his tactics. Yet despite all this, they still win the league and cups fairly regularly, and still get to the qf of the champs league most seasons.

So is that by virtue of the sheer quality of their squad overcoming the upheaval, or is it because some of the managers are better than others at getting more out of that squad of players which at any given time over that period has been of a similar quality? It's most definitely a combination of the two, but it seems no matter how bad the manager, over the last 15 or so years, they still finish in qf of champs league and 2nd in the league at worst - that tells me that regardless of the manager, their squad ability has a natural level of attainment.

Example 2 - Rags
Manchester United on the other hand, more recently have had a transfer policy in recent years which has still seen them spend money, but by and large on younger players. They have slowly lost the quality they had in their squad over the last 10 years yet have still managed to finish in the top 2 every year and generally qf or better in the champs league. Even though their squad was getting worse by the year, they not only maintained their performance, they actually got the highest points total for a 2nd placed team, and won the league last season. Yet now another variable has changed, their manager, they look a bit of a mess and all the old cliches are coming out about giving the manager time to settle, seemingly in preparation for the fact that they seem extremely likely to finish in a lower league position than they have for the last 20 seasons.

With that in mind, they still have a better than average squad - this year we may actually see though, what is the natural level of that squad now they have a mediocre manager in charge. Yet when real madrid get a mediocre manager they still finish 2nd? How can that be if it's not massively weighted towards the basic currency of the number of good footballers in your squad?



So please Beefy, cut the hyperbole and faux indignation, but by all means debate the point......because the two examples above show the value of a top quality squad versus the variable of good and less good managers. The actual outcomes would seem to be massively weighted towards the quality of the squad, how can you say otherwise? If this wasnt the case, we could have Norwich City or any number of clubs challenging for the title when they stumble upon a great manager wouldnt we?

In summary, all i've ever said about Mancini, is that he has grave faults which in my view, shouldnt just be overlooked because we are so grateful to win a trophy after being shit for so long, which seems to be the only angle you can come up with.

I believe time will show us that any number of managers of varying ability can, and will win the league at city with the quality of squad the club aspires to maintain. But equally, whilst other managers will fail to win trophies, I very much doubt that with a squad at this level, like real madrid, would drop below 2nd place in the league based on pure ability, unless the manager was an absolute lemon like warnock.

So when somebody above said 'i could have managed city to win the league' - whilst clearly a ridiculous statement on the surface, the basis of that point is valid, if your squad's natural level is to finish in the top 2, it doesn't take a genius manager to win the league......it will take a great manager to sustain success though.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I will forever think of Mancini very very fondly for what he did and what he gave us.

BUT if you cannot see that he was massively flawed and that:

- we very nearly did throw the title winning season away when we should have romped it

- that last season was a farce and

- he routinely had the squad performing at way way less than the sum of its parts in terms of quality due to his handling of the players

Then you are being willfully blind to things staring you right in the face. If you want to do that then that's your choice but there is no need to call and slag those who can remain more objective whilst still fully supporting the team

Why should we have romped it? Because we had the bestest players and we know they were the bestest because we paid extortionate prices for them, so they must be, right? Nevermind the fact that the majority of these players had never won a league title before and were battling against a more experienced squad outside the City walls. We finished just 6 points off the record points total for this league ffs.

A farce? Cup final day and our CL outing was pretty fucking shit to be fair but we finished second in the league, how the fuck a City fan can call that a farce and then speak of objectivity in the same breath is beyond me.

I'm not slagging anyone off, I just can't fathom this we won the league in spite of him bollox.

[Im_Spartacus]

You mean because Hughes made history by winning us cups and league titles. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU ON ABOUT???

Different times, different resources mate, you are being particularly disingenuous with that comment as seems to be the style when people want to scream 'but look at our trophies'

Who knows if Hughes would have won a trophy that season, but what I do know, is that to win an FA cup and move from 5th to 3rd cost the club £170m, then a further £80m to move from 3rd to 1st.

So its hardly a fair comparison is it, and as much as I couldnt stand hughes the same as you, i cant just ignore that Hughes was well positioned to win a trophy when he was sacked, which perversely is why I think he was sacked when he was to stop short sighted fools getting giddy about silverware complaining about sacking the manager that brought us the first trophy in 40 years, and ignoring the glaring flaws in his makeup.

Following on from my previous post above, I personally dont think its unreasonable to say that Hughes could have finished 2nd last season. Not sure he had it in his locker to win the league, as Mancini definitely was a better manager, but I dont think the gulf between him and mancini is as big as some would suggest givent he same resources, both had massive tactical blindspots which were ultimately both mens downfall.

[Breks]

Hi Carlos, meet your new manager. He coached the Rusholme u15's to 3rd place last season so we know you'll have lots of respect for him. Yes Mario, you and Breks will get on just fine, he says "bite me" whenever someone challenges him. And yes Mr Vieira, Breks has done it on the world Xbox stage, so I'm sure you'll agree with his half time analysis and second half strategies. You'll believe him and want to give your all for him when he asks you to dig deeper.

Yes Breks, you could have won the league, and done everything else better. Without a doubt.

finally the truth comes out, it always does in the end.

[aaron bond]

I will forever think of Mancini very very fondly for what he did and what he gave us.

BUT if you cannot see that he was massively flawed and that:

- we very nearly did throw the title winning season away when we should have romped it

- that last season was a farce and

- he routinely had the squad performing at way way less than the sum of its parts in terms of quality due to his handling of the players

Then you are being willfully blind to things staring you right in the face. If you want to do that then that's your choice but there is no need to call and slag those who can remain more objective whilst still fully supporting the team

Why should we have romped it? Because we had the bestest players and we know they were the bestest because we paid extortionate prices for them, so they must be, right? Nevermind the fact that the majority of these players had never won a league title before and were battling against a more experienced squad outside the City walls. We finished just 6 points off the record points total for this league ffs.

I don't get this whole 'we should have romped it' thing either.

We achieved 89 points - an impressive total in its own right.

Then you have to consider that United achieved 89 points too. Like they were last season, they were generally a winning machine in our title-winning season. They particularly had a tough run in Jan/Feb of that season, playing all of the top sides except us, and we expected them to drop points. But they won all of those games and went on a great run.

To win the league easily that season we would have had to achieve a points tally in the high-90s or greater. I honestly fail to see how anyone can sensibly believe that to be a reasonable view.

Mancini definitely had flaws. His stubbornness got the better of him on too many occasions, and his record in the CL was a disappointment. After the FA Cup Final last season, I didn't disagree with the decision to remove him as manager, as it seemed like the time had come for a change. But I'm surprised that some people expected so much of us in winning our first title in such a long time.