Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

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Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby ross.mcfc » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:02 am

A couple of days ago John68 posted what I thought were thought provoking comments about the current footballing political climate and what future problems that City as a club may face. All to often football fans get lost in the here and now and are almost bipolar when it comes their views of current sides/managers. There have been some off the field developments in the past years or so at City and in football in general that I believe are going to shape the game/club we all love which will completely isolate the hardcore fans who were to busy being concerned about how the team were performing week to week to possibly even notice and vitally to late to put up resistance.

Johns comments.

I have been watching the political movements at the top end of football for some time now and it concerns me deeply. Most fans seem to have viewed each "event/decision/change/political movement", (of the elite club) as separate but when put together, they reveal a continuous story of increasing control of the game particularly in Europe, that had its seeds in the 1980s and has continued ever since. Personally, I am now of the view that the Elite are moving towards the next stage and clubs like the rags and Arsenal are ensuring their blokes are in the right places...to defend their gains and ensure they control the future. The next stage being the control of the Global game. It is too easy to criticism the likes of Blatter and Platini, they are only figureheads. The real power lies in the committees behind them and it is there where the clubs have hugely increased their power. Blatter will go in the next few years and the chances are that Global power will shift back to Europe. Through the EuFA committees and the ECA, the elite clubs have got EuFA pretty well sewn up. Should global power shift to Europe with Platini (or similar puppet) head of FiFA, those elite clubs will be in prime position to rule the roost and financially clean up. From City's point of view, we have to stop considering what happens on the pitch in purely football terms and look at our position in terms of football politics and commerce. Our club is in a unique position and what is happening behind the scenes is crucial to our future. Gary is correct to mention our geographical position because the power balance between us and the rags, is and will be critical. It is either/or, the rags or us. With our financial resources and the football infrastructure that is presently being built at the Etihad, I believe we will overtake them on the pitch (if we haven't already) and leave them behind. They will not be able to compete with us in football terms. That is almost inevitable. The danger is commercially and politically. The rags are founder members of the elite clubs' club, have many powerful friends and good representation in the highest corridors of power. We are not in their League in that respect. It is only in the last few months that we became Full Members of the ECA, and who can forget the media hammering we took from Rummenigge (figurehead of the old G14 and now head of the ECA) not so long ago. Politically, we are relatively friendless. Commercially, we're improving massively but still lag miles behind the rags. Can you imagine a global game without the rags? But that is what we have to ensure happens and it is City who MUST replace them. If we can't replace them, we MUST at least ensure we gain a position where they CANNOT leave us out. -


It is particularly Johns last comment that I find most interesting and that is something you can see in the day to to running of our club. We have seen our current manager rest players ahead of CL matches to the determent of our league form. Our previous manager finished second, first, second and it is clear that not even second with a cup win was going to save his job. Our owners are all about winning the Champions League and Bobby Manc was clearly not going to deliver that. I honestly believe they would be delighted with 4th and a Champions League win. Pellegrini's future will be decided on how we do in Europe not how we do in the league.

As John eludes to and I would argue even further, the current domestic league set up as we know it, will be barely recognizable within ten years. The elite European clubs are and have been for a number of years slowly but surely easing us into the idea of a European Super League. A closed shop license to print money. It is already under way. Domestic borders really mean nothing in the modern world. Why should they apply to club football? The womens leagues in Germany/Holland/Belgium are merging and I believe (although I could be wrong) that the Russian and Ukranian leagues are attempting to merge. To gain entry to this elite club you will not be judged on how successful you are now or in the past but pure and simply how much money you can bring to the table there and then and the geographic location of our club may mean we maybe shut out. Challenge or win the European Cup on a regular basis then it is practically impossible to left out. United are probably the second biggest club in the world and Liverpool have a bigger global appeal than us and have won the Champions League. Three slots in a European Super Leauge that has 16/18 teams in it going to the North West of England. I think not.

The emergence of the petrodollar clubs in the East and France is shifting the balance of power in football not only in terms of football transfers. Non of these Oligarchs and Princes are doing this for the love of the game. Like all mega rich people, they see profit in the long term and that is not going to come from winning the French League and getting into the CL Group stages. Whilst in the short term the Premiership remains the stand out brand it will not always be the place to play/earn silly money. The relatively poor performances in the Champions League by English sides in the past two years (Chelsea was a fluke) goes to show the power shift is already underway on the pitch. Off the pitch is the next step.

Of course non of this will happen overnight but over the past year I have noticed developments that are moving us ever closer to the European elite clubs taking. The Qatar World Cup farce is probably the most best example of this. Not only is it going to be a vital part of the footballing world quite soon but the move to a winter world cup backed by the major European clubs manages to de value the competition and in my opinion moves us one step closer to a European Super League in the summer whilst the national league continue in the normal format with the World Cup remaining as a side show in the winter. Football twelve months a year. What is not to like if you are a tv company? Qatar could be interesting player in all of this. They are not spending all that money to purely host a world cup for 4 weeks. Although it was dismissed at the time I firmly believe the idea of a club World Cup held in Qatar every two years is still a real possibility going forward. There would be a lot more money to be made as well as a bigger global audience from 16 European sides and 16 other teams from America, South America and Asia playing in tournament football than the current World Cup offers. New Zealand vrs Slovenia or LA Galaxy vrs Real Madrid. Hard to pick which one would get the bigger audience really. In my view it is quite possible they will have hosted a Champions League final before 2022.

The pre season fixture list this year was also rather revealing. We are all use to the idea of tours of Asia and America to help boost 'brand awareness' but the itinerary for the major English clubs this year was to the eye rather odd. City vrs Arsenal in Helskinki, A eight team super cup in LA. Man United and Liverpool flying all the way over to Australia for one game. Liverpool going to Norway for one game. It probably went well under the radar in the UK but Real Madrid and PSG played friendlies in Gothenburg. The above mentioned markets have already been long since been conquered in the 70/80's and they certainly are not emerging markets financially or from a football sense. This was probably best explained by NQDP who summarized this pattern as 'continuing to tour the countries with a massive emerging middle class but paying lip service to the countries who can afford to pay now'. I believe that the days of the traditional tv deal are coming to an end and the era of online subscription season tickets to watch the team of your choice and not what ever the companies opt to serve up to you are on it's way. The elite clubs are all jostling for position to ensure that their income remain sky high through subscribers in the middle and long term.

These developments have a massive impact on the day to day tradition fan. In truth, you mean next to nothing now. I use the term you and not we as I have lived in the UK one year in the past eight and make about two / three games a season and a tailored package of City would suit me down to the ground. I have spent quite a bit of time in South East Asia in the past eight years and it has been very interesting to see our presence in that part of the world go from next to nothing to the 'brand' that I would say is only behind Barcelona in terms of street visabilty. These fans/subscribers would be far more likely to shell out a few hundred baht a year to watch us play Barca,Real or PSG every week than Stoke, Hull or Palace. Whilst we may enjoy games against Villa, Everton and Newcastle a guy in Asia or America who started watching the Premiership five years ago does not care less because those teams have zero clout outside their respective cities. A bit like us five years ago. We live in a increasingly capitalistic world and if there is enough money to be made it will happen regardless if it rips the heart and sole of the domestic game. The time difference between the UK and Asia is not really convient to the 'consumer' in Asia but if that is where our market is then soon all our games could be at noon. We packed the place out for a 11am kick off once so if it comes to that we only have ourselves to blame. I can say we as I went to that game.

The next step is one that has been on the agenda for a number of years now. The Premiership put the idea of home games abroad on the back burner after the reaction to the silly 39th game concept but I can easily foresee a time in the near future where a whole host of games are playing outside England. I was in favour of the idea actually but as part of the league season, not as a silly bonus game. Like 99% of our global fanbase I don't go to the games so I could not give a toss if the game is in Manchester or Mexico City. I am sure there would be massive commercial and tv interest in a whole day of Premiership games kicking off in Sydney, moving time zones to the final game of the day in LA. If United and Liverpool can get ninety thousand Aussies to pay top dollar for a friendly then why are they offering discount tickets to local fans? Euro 2018 will not be held in a single country, but spread around the continent on different time zones ensuring everyone gets a nice slice of the pie. Why not run a league like that? City can play a few games in Abu Dhabi, Chelsea in Moscow, Let United play a game where ever it is the Glaziers own a NFL team.

Whilst the footballing world will always be dominated by European clubs, the worlds financial power lays in the Middle East and Asia and we football fans will march to the beat of their drum. I am not even going to bore you with the predictions of population growth in these parts of the world compared to Europe. If Qatar is happy allow slave labor and the death of hundreds of migrants to ensure their stadiums are built in time I do not think they will give a shit that a group of people in Manchester are getting a few less games on their season ticket next year. Neither do the clubs.

So, an elite European League played in the summer with games played around the world. Thoughts? I may have let my imagination wonder but it is undeniable that there will be major changes in our game in the coming years. Do you want City to be part of it despite it being to the detrement to you as a fan and the damage to the grass roots game? Do you want City to become an all conquering global brand that hangs out at the top table of world football where greed is good and the rest are left to feed on the scraps? Our owners have not invested all this money for no reason. We cannot have our cake and eat it.
Last edited by ross.mcfc on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Moonchesteri » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:45 am

First of all, a truly great post. Must be one of the longest here I've read! But, before I'll pass out I'll post a few points abiut thus but not in any particular order:
-I am afraid that will happen (you gave all the explanations why)
-some of the stuff you wrote me want to cry as I love the game as it is
-I personally do not like change of any sort so it (the uncertainty) means I'm more inclined to be against this kind of radical ideas
-if this kind of 'super league' happens, it will also give a chance for the 'remaining part of football/clubs' evolve. The big question is, as you said, do we/you want to be a part of this league which games' are played (occasionally?) at a ridiculous time for a Manc, or not? There will be an alternative.

As much as I love City, obviously for me the whole question not the same as for those of you my beloved friends who actually live in Manchester.

I'll have another look at this post when I'm sober afain so for now, Good night!
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby reni800 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:19 am

A brilliant post and one I agree with fully. I've long believed that trophies are in effect not won on the pitch but in the boardroom.

This is the reason why David Gill's move to Uefa level disconcerts me.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Cocacolajojo1 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:20 am

Smashing post and hopefully a real discussion-starter!

A few comment
- I don't think Manchester City is in any real danger of being left out if the super league is created. Considering that such a league would replace all the PL fixtures and the Champions league fixtures, it could easily contain 23-26 places and that'd mean what, 4-6 places for English teams. And besides that, there's the possibility that a super league could be divided into conferences and groups with less games against some, which would increase the number of possible teams even more. All in all, City are alreadt too big. The owners made such a splash when they came in, I was having football discussions with nepalese and indian fans who barely knew anything about football when I was travelling in the winter of 08-09. Judging from the OP, our spectuacular rise has drawn in a lot of fans since.
- As for the tailor-suited subscriptions. I've been wanting one of those since I started watching football but it hasn't happened yet. The technique's there, the money's there and the market's there. Perhaps we're getting there but I wouldn't underestimate the conservatism of the broadcasters as well as that a lot of subscribers subscribe to the idea of having the channels that show premier league if they would like to watch it, not because they are avid football fans. In other words, a lot of people pay (in my eyes) ridiculous sums of money per month to have these channels in their home because it's convenient. These people would not be interested in subscribing to a team or something like that and I think that's a substantial block for the broadcasting companies. They won't be creating two sellable products from one, with all the extra work that will entail, unless there's a substantial rise in profit to be made and frankly, I don't see that.
- The Euro's are already moving ahead from the idea that a tournament of that stature has to be held within one or two nations.
- IMO, it'll take some sort of financial blip. Or rather, a financial blip will be the factor that sets everyting in motion. Especially the Spanish teams are sensitive because of how Barcelona and Real have already gutted that league. When consumer interest decreases, be it that the tv-companies aren't willing to increase the tv-deals in parity with the raises for the PL or if consumer interest pans out because of the lack of competition, these teams will move for a European league and they will justify it with the most justifiable arguement there is in our day and age: economic sustainability and economic competetiveness.
- As I've already written, I'm not worried about City. It'll be more interesting to see how this future league will deal with the Italian clubs. I'm sure we'll get to hear a lot of arguments about how this european league is great because it will save clubs with prestige and history and pit them against each other in an effort that will allow them to make the transition to a global football world (I expect the words global market to be thrown around a lot). But the Italian teams are lagging behind, as is the Italian economy. Besides AC Milan and Juventus, are really any other clubs going to be included if the current trend continues? I don't see that happening.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:57 am

What a post! Among top 10 ever here and I fully agree with the content (annd of John's post within).

This is a subject I could chit chat about for hours in a pub with someone but couple of things.

First, the big clubs have been planning breakaway league for a good two decades. It has been brought up in about every five years or so just to provoke conversation and for them to see whether people were ready. I always thought Champion's League was just watered down version of what G14 had as an ultimate plan. People who have been around for a while can still remember what sort of reception this idea got when it was tossed around by some G14 owners (this was decade before the actual organisation was set up) early-90's. It was equally ridiculed and hammered. The whole idea seemed insane and it was said that domestic leagues were ALWAYS going to be number one. Fast forward twenty years and new generation of football fans. The future "consumers". Kids, and basically young adults, of these were brought up with Champions League and FIFA video games where you can create your custom leagues. For them this idea doesn't seem so alien after all. And who gives a shit about some disgruntled middle aged and older people? I mean what are they going to do? Stop going altogether and give up lifelong tradition. Some will but most will just keep folowing through tradition and/or because of their kids who are already used to this.

Second, situation in France made me instantly think that this is closer than ever. And our own owners and Americans with rags, Chelsea and Liverpool. People love to make fun of the Americans but these are no mugs either. I think the plans are well underway.

Third, it will be very much modelled after NFL. They are well ahead with tv rights and especially with their NFL Internet game pass (quite expensive "season ticket" to watch the games over Internet). Cook's constant references to NFL were not just about his big mouth either. Funny that we are talking about this few hours before another sold out NFL game in London.

Are we in or out by default? I'm not sure either way. I don't think it's as straightforward as either us or rags and I do think it comes down to money. These local derbies will bring in interest even in a global/European league. Manchester has BY FAR the most people attending games in all of Europe compared to population. And we are both interesting brands in our own rights even if for different reasons. NFL have two teams in New York and used to have two in Los Angeles. There's also five teams geographically quite close to each othernthere in Redskins, Eagles, Jets, Giants and Patriots. They could easily have us, rags and Scousers in world league.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby RodneyRodney » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:49 am

Excellent post . Here are a few thoughts.
IF the “Elite” clubs form a European Super League , and IF “they” try to exclude us , that wouldn’t necessarily be something they could get away with – a few years back, the Australian NRL tried to chuck South Sydney out , but Souths took the b*tards to court and won, and they had to let them back in . Nevertheless, as Cocajojo says, I reckon we’re too big already for “them” to try something like that. We’re at the top table, we’re cashed up , and “they” will reckon they need us around.
If they didn’t, the kind of lawyers the Sheikh can get hold of would be able to do plenty about it.

Rugby Union has changed enormously in the last twenty years or so, especially in New Zealand , where I lived until recently. Many of the changes have seen it transformed from being the traditional old fashioned “heartland” , “people’s” game to a game belonging to the suits’ munching their prawn sandwiches in their corporate boxes – old traditions chucked out of the window – driven by money. The same could happen and already is happening in football. In the SANZAR Super Rugby competition which exists now, traditional provincial sides such as Taranaki, Waikato, Canterbury, etc. have been morphed into new , manufactured “franchises” . The same could happen in football and we could end up with teams like “Merseyside” , “London”, “Manchester” – a true nightmare scenario, but don’t put it past “them” if they think there’s a quid in it . . .
Hopefully, sense will prevail – as Cocajo suggests – some sort of divisional model as in the American NFL could be used to accommodate enough teams ; one good thing about the NFL is that Green Bay , population probably less than Stockport, haven’t disappeared and have indeed won it in recent years.
I won’t necessarily accept the idea that European teams will always dominate – why should they ? Look at the amount of cash Anzhi were throwing around until recently – Turkish, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Dubai – based teams (or perhaps “franchises”) will one day have just as much buying power as the game improves and expands there. Japanese Rugby has for years been able to offer “silly money” contracts for the best players from NZ, Australia, Fiji, etc. Where’s the BIG money in cricket these days ? Australia, England ? Wrong answer – India ! Why should we assume we’ll always “own” football, just because we invented it ?

As Ross visualises, in 20 or 30 years things might be unrecognisable , with an intercontinental “Global Football League” – “World Series Soccer”, anyone ? Where will that leave US? – If there’s still a Manchester City , playing in Sky Blue , playing hopefully most of its home games in , or at least near, Manchester , then yes , that I could live with . If , however, we’ve been “blended” into a North West England “franchise” , playing in Sky Blue , Royal Blue , Red and White in a multi-squillion dollar 80,000 seat stadium in Warrington or somewhere . . . then I’d start supporting Altrincham
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby AG7 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:50 pm

Brilliant brilliant post ...

Only two things: Yes, this will happen ... and yes, City is already there, we won't be left out ...

Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of new fans that one "Aguerooooooo" moment created for us in all these far flung places ... which was because of the TV and not because we are in Manchester or the North West of England. The whole Globalisation is already happening in football too and it won't even be 20-25 years that we'll see something like this, more like 8-10 years in my opinion.

And I'm pretty sure the guys in charge upstairs at City these days are already aware of that and if not belong to are fully on to the 'inner circle' of what's taking shape ... What do you think going and creating that NYCFC with Yankees was?

It might not be a set of 20-30 influential people making these plans in a secret room somewhere and then delivering this master plan of some sort via these committees at different levels as their pawns but it's just in general how business of football and broadcasting is shaping and the global economics will push these together and shove them all into making something like this happen ...

As for us, with NYCFC mentioned already, the academy and sheer size of it, our other initiatives around the globe with academies and charities and moments like "Aguerooooooo" on the pitch are all pointing to us already having arrived there. Have you not noticed in all pre and post match conferences and briefs all oppositions be it in domestic PL or the likes of Plzen refer to us as a 'Big Club in Europe' and not just a PL contender, although we've only been to CL twice and never out of the groups but tell me which other club with such CL record from say an Eastern European country gets called that?

This will happen ... and sooner than we all think. Well done to the OP again, brilliant post ... this is why I am here on this forum and not any other Blue thing.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Blue Since 76 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:28 pm

Great post. Since the G14 was created, there's been a massive shift in football and I'm not sure now it's easy to pick <20 teams you'd expect to be involved. Most of the old powers would still be there, but could you really see City, PSG, Monaco being left out? What about Anzhi?

Another aspect is the MLS. Despite the investment etc, it's just not a big league. Yet LA Galaxy are one of a few teams on the demo for FIFA14, presumably bringing in the likes of Beckscum and Henry is paying off. I know it was tried previously with Pele and all, but that was before the internet. Add to that City's recent investment there with a team due to start next year.

Add to that China bringing in the likes of Anelka and Drogba. Again, didn't work initially, but is that due to the quality of the opposition meaning fans would rather watch European teams?

Is the idea of a European super league therefore dead, replaced by a world league, maybe even with two NFL style conferences, allowing finals between them at the end of the season? That allow the elite of Europe, plus emerging markets and other nations eg Brazil to be involved. With games played around the world, you could easily have 12 hours of live games every Saturday and Sunday with at least 6 hours in prime time in every time zone.

When you look at what NBC is doing with PL coverage or what the BBC did for the Olympics with something like 24 channels available through Sky or via an app, it's all possible.

Personally, I'd hate it and want things to remain as they are, but that's naive. If you were setting up a new sport now that billions would play and watch, would you set it up in the way it has been to date, with all the talent in one continent?
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Hutch's Shoulder » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:49 pm

Really this is the best discussion on the forum at the moment. Real long term issues here.

I have thought some kind if supra-national league has been inevitable for years. I am not looking forward to it but it will come. I also think City can be part of it. Not because of our support in the UK but because of the visibility we are starting to acquire globally. All these far eastern sponsorships we see are not just to raise a few quid.

I was talking online to a guy in Indonesia last week, he did not know I was a blue. He listed the big PL teams as City, MUFC and Liverpool. He supports Real Madrid and his son is a rag. Shows the market that is being targeted.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Blue Since 76 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:59 pm

Blue Since 76 wrote:Great post. Since the G14 was created, there's been a massive shift in football and I'm not sure now it's easy to pick


Ok, where did the rest of my flipping post go? I was half way through one earlier and it logged me out. I blame Platini
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Blue Since 76 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Can't be arsed typing it all out again, but my basic premise before was the idea of a European league is probably out of date. Partly due to ourselves, PSG etc crashing the party but also due to a wider audience with the money to back it up - LA Galaxy in America, plus the new NYCFC next season, new wealth in Brazil with the two major sporting events to arrive, China opening up etc.

A worldwide league, maybe with two NFL style conferences of say 16 teams each with finals between them. Every Saturday and Sunday you could probably have 12 hours of continuous games spread around the world, with 6 hours of prime time in each time zone.

If you were just starting a game now which billions would follow and with the spread of wealth as it is around the world, would you set it up so every major team player and therefore every top player is based in one continent? Add in the internet plus cable/satellite TV and the current model is stupid. Sure, it's better for fans at the games, but they don't spend anywhere near enough to be important.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Dameerto » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:03 pm

Concerning the 'TV season ticket' idea I mentioned something about it a while ago when suggesting broadcasters needed to innovate. Using Sky (in the UK) as an example they seem to be focused exclusively on a 'sports' subscription model using football as a gateway to their wider offerings although there is scope to use a 'box office' type of product for football (as they do for one off events like boxing). The whole broadcasting industry needs a massive kick up the arse if you ask me though, there is a LOT of potential for casual/occasional/additional customers who cant or wont subscribe to the general sports services but who could/would pay for limited offerings.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Herb » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:19 pm

I really appreciated the view provided - eloquently made and thought provoking.

However, I'm not sure if I subscribe to it given that there's more opinion than statistic and more conjecture than hard fact, indeed, it is clever but I'm not sure if I should even bother to think about it because the fact of the matter is that football is a commercial enterprise and it will go to wherever and do whatever it takes to maximise it's income . . dat's capitalism innit.
In a capitalist system you either fight tooth and nail to be at the front of the market (thereby eagerly embracing developments that benefit your commercial interests (all of the authors fears brought real)) or sit back, fall away and die (all of the football fans fears brought real).

On a personal level, I love City and I've enjoyed the game in it's various guises for many years but I'm not really arsed about the future because we can't control these things on an individual basis and the rivalry between fans of different clubs means that we're always divided (and thereby easily controlled . . perfect huh?). So we fans are not organised enough to ever make a difference and must move with the times with a positive outlook because dwelling on the past is pointless and dreading the future is fucking ridiculous unless you're willing to invest your emotional energy into doing something to shape the future . . . and that isn't going to happen is it.

The one single fly in the capitalist development argument (both the authors and my 'capitalist' comment) is that the owners of Manchester City FC are so rich that they're not driven directly by money . . they benefit enormously from the reputation gains that they make by doing the right thing, by being fair and honest and by being inclusive and by listening to the fans . . I have the thought that they and other investors in European football clubs may see ultimate commercial value in keeping their fans onboard rather than taking the more obvious route to the fast cash. In this day and age reputation has enormous value in itself.
If we had De Gea and the rags had Hart, we'd be top with a 9 point lead and they'd be in 12th place - that's the difference between a 'good' keeper and a 'top class' keeper - 12 places - think about it.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby john68 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:27 pm

Herb,
I respect your view that because you feel disenfranchised, you couldn't really give a fuck about the future. As I am bobbin on a bit, I s'pose I could sit on my arse and keep my unsupported by statistics to myself, cos much of the future won't affect me...it'll be your and your childrens and so on.

May I inform you that life is like a relay race. Past generations handed the baton to mine, in order that my generation could look after the world and hand a better one on to yours...and so it goes on.

I feel a responsibility, even if I am helpless to change anything, that I should at least try and inform those that follow of things I feel they should be informed about, that maybe need to be changed. At least, if they accept the shit they are confronted with, they'll be more informed when they form an opinion.

It's one of the reasons we have schools.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Im_Spartacus » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:40 am

john68 wrote:Herb, I respect your view that because you feel disenfranchised, you couldn't really give a fuck about the future. As I am bobbin on a bit, I s'pose I could sit on my arse and keep my unsupported by statistics to myself, cos much of the future won't affect me...it'll be your and your childrens and so on. May I inform you that life is like a relay race. Past generations handed the baton to mine, in order that my generation could look after the world and hand a better one on to yours...and so it goes on. I feel a responsibility, even if I am helpless to change anything, that I should at least try and inform those that follow of things I feel they should be informed about, that maybe need to be changed. At least, if they accept the shit they are confronted with, they'll be more informed when they form an opinion. It's one of the reasons we have schools.



As we have seen with FFP John, even the 'independent' media fall in line and fail to do their job of asking appropriate questions, and make lazy half arsed judgements about ffp being designed to stop big bad city, which in turn helps to sell newspapers because it subscribes to what they think people want to hear rather than what the actual truth of the matter is (with the one exception of martin samuel).

When faced with a media so lacking in integrity, and several million people who despite everything they should have learned pver the years, STILL accept what these cunts tell us as gospel, the only place for football to go, is whatever direction these cunts in Switzerland and the ECA tell us we are going.

When the penny finally drops and the media start to actually become journalists again, it will only be once plans are overt, not covert, and I fear the ship will have sailed, leaving those of us who have been able to see what's being going on from the start, just shaking our heads knowing the 'project' wayt too far down the road to make the difference.

A great example of this is United......the glazers have played a fucking blinder. With bacon in charge they have been able to stay competetive, in fact have one of the most successful spells in their history and still pay down the debt. With him in charge though they were always going to have to strengthen, otherwise he would walk if they played the cunt. I think the glazers got to the point where the debt is manageable and they could take the risk of telling ferguson he couldnt have the £100m which may have been needed for a new cb and 2x centre midfielders they need, so he bailed. Moyes will now just be a puppet as he holds no influence at all. After all these years, they could easily turn into arsenal, a cash cow for the owners, exactly as the disenfranchised fans who fucked off to fcum said all along. Those particular chickens are most definitely coming home to roost now!
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Herb » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:11 am

john68 wrote:Herb,
I respect your view that because you feel disenfranchised, you couldn't really give a fuck about the future. As I am bobbin on a bit, I s'pose I could sit on my arse and keep my unsupported by statistics to myself, cos much of the future won't affect me...it'll be your and your childrens and so on.

May I inform you that life is like a relay race. Past generations handed the baton to mine, in order that my generation could look after the world and hand a better one on to yours...and so it goes on.

I feel a responsibility, even if I am helpless to change anything, that I should at least try and inform those that follow of things I feel they should be informed about, that maybe need to be changed. At least, if they accept the shit they are confronted with, they'll be more informed when they form an opinion.

It's one of the reasons we have schools.


John,

I'm with you on a moral and ethical level. You're a lovely bloke and you certainly have your heart in the right place so if it makes you feel good to pass the message on then that's very commendable - but please don't expect your voice to be heard where it really matters because that won't happen.

Oh, and the main reason we have state controlled schools is to misinform and miseducate our children so that they accept a situation where we have no written constitution for the people, where we have a mock parliament (not a true democracy at all) that only functions with the express permission of our german royal family, where our armed forces & police & secret service (secret police) spy on our own people and swear loyalty to the queen but not the people that we imagine they ought to serve and where less than 2% of our society owns 95% of the wealth . . . schools tell our children that this is not just ok but that we live in the best county in the world.

All in all it's just another brick in the whatsit as they say. Not trying to be negative or anything just making the point that it's pretty damn pointless trying to control where football's going because we have no control over matters of that magnitude - we're not even pawns in the game.

PS. I don't feel disenfranchised because I understand that I have never had control and was never meant to. And I do give a fuck about the future but I view it with interest and without any silly expectation that I can influence it at that level.
If we had De Gea and the rags had Hart, we'd be top with a 9 point lead and they'd be in 12th place - that's the difference between a 'good' keeper and a 'top class' keeper - 12 places - think about it.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Breks » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:40 am

I would imagine the money men will get what they want in the end. Football is not a sport to them its just another business to make more and more money continuously.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby mr_nool » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:23 am

Fantastic OP and thread!
I too think we're heading this way, and, ironical as it may seem with me being an oversea fan, the day football does lose it's local roots will be the day I stop following it.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby john68 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:27 pm

Sparty,
I agree with just about all of that....Unusually...:-)

Herb,
Surprise surprise, I also agree with your reasoning behind your conclusion. My point, which you slightly miss is that we should at least ensure that others know what shit is going down. What they choose to do with the information is their business. "Look there's some dog shit on the pavement"...Should you choose to step in it, that is your prerogative, but at least it was a more informed choice.

I do not believe that because someone or something appears more or even too powerful, that nothing can be done to change it. Though unlikely to happen in football terms, should you choose to, you don't have to buy into it. Without support, the whole thing collapses.

And please don't malign schools to an extreme. I agree that they mostly tend to serve the the establishment but there are plenty on here who, judging by their posts, have a marvellous ability to think for themselves.
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Re: Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

Postby Socrates » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:05 pm

Herb wrote:
john68 wrote:Herb,
I respect your view that because you feel disenfranchised, you couldn't really give a fuck about the future. As I am bobbin on a bit, I s'pose I could sit on my arse and keep my unsupported by statistics to myself, cos much of the future won't affect me...it'll be your and your childrens and so on.

May I inform you that life is like a relay race. Past generations handed the baton to mine, in order that my generation could look after the world and hand a better one on to yours...and so it goes on.

I feel a responsibility, even if I am helpless to change anything, that I should at least try and inform those that follow of things I feel they should be informed about, that maybe need to be changed. At least, if they accept the shit they are confronted with, they'll be more informed when they form an opinion.

It's one of the reasons we have schools.


John,

I'm with you on a moral and ethical level. You're a lovely bloke and you certainly have your heart in the right place so if it makes you feel good to pass the message on then that's very commendable - but please don't expect your voice to be heard where it really matters because that won't happen.

Oh, and the main reason we have state controlled schools is to misinform and miseducate our children so that they accept a situation where we have no written constitution for the people, where we have a mock parliament (not a true democracy at all) that only functions with the express permission of our german royal family, where our armed forces & police & secret service (secret police) spy on our own people and swear loyalty to the queen but not the people that we imagine they ought to serve and where less than 2% of our society owns 95% of the wealth . . . schools tell our children that this is not just ok but that we live in the best county in the world.

All in all it's just another brick in the whatsit as they say. Not trying to be negative or anything just making the point that it's pretty damn pointless trying to control where football's going because we have no control over matters of that magnitude - we're not even pawns in the game.

PS. I don't feel disenfranchised because I understand that I have never had control and was never meant to. And I do give a fuck about the future but I view it with interest and without any silly expectation that I can influence it at that level.


This isn't the forum for it but I have to say I see no need for a written constitution, they just stop countries evolving, just look at the gun nuts in the US. It isn't a mock parliament either, if a monarch ever used their theoretical powers then the monarchy would fall in 5 minutes. As a republican I am hoping Charlie gets his chance and fucks up very royally ;) Those in control are the 2% as a whole not that one family specifically.

On to where City are, much sense has been spoken and the dangers of a breakaway European elite are real. Is probably the real reason we are working so hard to meet FFP rules. Imagine if we broke them and while we fighting our suspension in the courts the breakaway occurred without us? Would explain to even the most ardent ffp denier the reason why they vowed to fight Prem FFP but never wanted to challenge UEFA.

Which then brings me to a very large irony, that City's gravest potential threat may come from Islamic revolutionaries, politics could impact us greatly if the UAE saw the sort of ructions we have seen in other countries in that region.
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