Good ol sis

[Socrates]

Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but names will will never hurt me. Theres too many mard arses about these days.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will just finish me off..."

[Pretty Boy Lee]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will just finish me off..."

That's so gay

[Chinners]

Well in Fuey

[Cocacolajojo1]

First of all congratulations again to SOF, this is a brilliant achievement. I also think it’s great that the topic of homophobia is being talked about again. I do have to add my thoughts though, because I just don’t agree with some of the points in this thread.

I don’t see how abuse from the terraces is overplayed? Or even worse, the view that once you walk inside a football stadium you are free from the usual, intelligent norms of society and you are free to openly be as abusive as you like. Apart from the homophobic side of things, we are not all adults in the ground; there are children and young people all around us at a game. When they hear these chants they see it as ‘normal’ and take the names back to school or online. Once that happens things tend to spiral out of control.

To make this point let me introduce a few names to you:

Billy Lucas, age 15, hanged himself from the rafters of his family's barn: Seth Walsh, 13, hanged himself from a tree in his yard: Tyler Clementi, 1, jumped off bridge: Asher Brown, 13, shot himself in the head. These four boys didn't know each other, but they did have something in common. They'd been bullied at school, and one by one, they all apparently came to the same conclusion: If you're gay or thought to be gay, life just isn't worth living.

As much as I love football and my team, I would have to think very seriously about them if the only way they could perform on the pitch is by having the chant homophobic abuse (or any abuse).

There are really two issues here, and it leads to a catch 22 situation. People seem to think that homophobic abuse is trivial and therefor acceptable. This means for will never see a premier league player come out and become a role model, and we can all move on.

The irony of all this is that the players who you like to call fairies probably go home to their wife’s and girlfriends, and ones you put on a pedestal could well go home to their boyfriends. Now all of this is nobody’s business, and shouldn’t be brought into the work place.

Let me make one final point. If we are saying that it’s OK to abuse players in their work place, does this mean that we only have to be civil at home? I’m sorry but it doesn’t work like that, a homophobic and abusive name is just that regardless of whether you use it on a forum, Facebook or at The Etihad.

Pretty much yeah. Wanted to write something similar earlier but didn't feel I was up for it and this was much better put than anything I could've produced.

[Im_Spartacus]

I honestly don't think all the people that say chant "who's the faggott in the pink" at an away fan with a pink shirt on are homophobic. I think it's a combination of factors alcohol being one that contribute to such chants. I don't condone it and it's wrong but I think only a minority would be homophobic and sincerely mean it. I reckon people I know on here have joined in with such chants and I can guarentee your not homophobic. It's just crowd mentality and and happens at football matches. Football fans are not known for engaging their brains at times. I stand by what I said and think football fans will do anything within their power to help their team. Seeing as we can't take free kicks or penalties the next best thing is to put players off their game whether that be chanting about extra marital affairs or someone's sexuality. Footballs fans can be extremely cruel but I bet some are loving mums, dads, sons, daughters etc etc away from the terraces.

thanks for the reply, some good points you make there based on common sense which i reckon resonate with most of us who have watched football over the last couple of decades.

To bring your thoughts and cute mancs together though, i'll give you an example which hurts me to this day, even thoughit happened probably 20 years ago. I used to watch Bury every week, and remember them playing torquay, (you know whats coming right).....so the goalkeeper lines up a goalkick, and rather than the standard ....whooooooooa your shit ahhhhh which was the standard at the time was...whoooooooooa justins got a shitty dick.......

I look back on that now and agree wholeheartedly with your view that the first time i heard it I didnt really know what was meant, till i asked around and found out he was supposed to be gay - then i joined in. He copped dogs abuse like this throughout the match (suppose at least he avoided racist abuse) and only now i look back and think that i joined in with this, and whilst im certainly not homophobic, that behaviour was totally reprehensible and can only really be dealt with by a total ban and criminalising that behaviour as per racism.

I still dont think a total ban on fans will make a difference in terms of players coming out, as its going to be the day in, day out attitude of colleagues which makes the difference. If i were a football player, even if homosexuality was more accepted, i dont think i would ever come out - the fans are one thing, but the small minded fuckwits i would have to share a dressing room with would be another problem altogether.

[Socrates]

That's so gay

Thank you!

[Socrates]

To be clear, I think sister of fu is right that not everyone who would use it at football is homophobic outside the ground and I hope any gay player would think of that if bullied in that way. I understand also that she doesn't condone it. Problem is that those chanting ARE condoning it and cutemancs is right that it has to stop. It has no more place on the terraces than racism or sectarianism.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

It's a tough one this as in principal I agree, but then if a mate of mine got banned for the aforementioned chant I'd feel hard done by for them too.

50 shades of grey here.

[Socrates]

It's a tough one this as in principal I agree, but then if a mate of mine got banned for the aforementioned chant I'd feel hard done by for them too.

50 shades of grey here.

Nope has nothing to do with weird s and m sex fantasies :) Your mate should only be banned if it has been made clear in advance that such behaviour would lead to banning. If your mate then did it anyway would be his or her own fault.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Nope has nothing to do with weird s and m sex fantasies :) Your mate should only be banned if it has been made clear in advance that such behaviour would lead to banning. If your mate then did it anyway would be his or her own fault.

Yeah you're probably right, whilst I'm not going to tell anyone what does or doesn't offend them, I do worry that it's a slippery slope for bannings as more and more things become taboo.

Tough one.

[Sister of fu]

Nope has nothing to do with weird s and m sex fantasies :) Your mate should only be banned if it has been made clear in advance that such behaviour would lead to banning. If your mate then did it anyway would be his or her own fault.

Yeah you're probably right, whilst I'm not going to tell anyone what does or doesn't offend them, I do worry that it's a slippery slope for bannings as more and more things become taboo.

Tough one.

While at the Everton game a couple of weeks ago, the usual antics of standing up and sitting down were on going in the block next to me. One bloke then shouts something along the lines of “shut the fuck up you stupid dyke” to the female steward who was asking people to sit down. Now would this same bloke shout “shut the fuck up you n*****r” if this steward happened to be black??

He was well out of line but no one did anything. He kinda got pulled up by a girl who sits about three seats away from him who was clearly a lesbian and who he knows but they all laughed it off. I was fuming as this was bang out of order and this is the kind of comment that needs to be addressed. I have heard several dyke comments thrown around at games directed at female stewards, what is with people thinking this is acceptable??

[Sister of fu]

I honestly don't think all the people that say chant "who's the faggott in the pink" at an away fan with a pink shirt on are homophobic. I think it's a combination of factors alcohol being one that contribute to such chants. I don't condone it and it's wrong but I think only a minority would be homophobic and sincerely mean it. I reckon people I know on here have joined in with such chants and I can guarentee your not homophobic. It's just crowd mentality and and happens at football matches. Football fans are not known for engaging their brains at times. I stand by what I said and think football fans will do anything within their power to help their team. Seeing as we can't take free kicks or penalties the next best thing is to put players off their game whether that be chanting about extra marital affairs or someone's sexuality. Footballs fans can be extremely cruel but I bet some are loving mums, dads, sons, daughters etc etc away from the terraces.

thanks for the reply, some good points you make there based on common sense which i reckon resonate with most of us who have watched football over the last couple of decades.

To bring your thoughts and cute mancs together though, i'll give you an example which hurts me to this day, even thoughit happened probably 20 years ago. I used to watch Bury every week, and remember them playing torquay, (you know whats coming right).....so the goalkeeper lines up a goalkick, and rather than the standard ....whooooooooa your shit ahhhhh which was the standard at the time was...whoooooooooa justins got a shitty dick.......

I look back on that now and agree wholeheartedly with your view that the first time i heard it I didnt really know what was meant, till i asked around and found out he was supposed to be gay - then i joined in. He copped dogs abuse like this throughout the match (suppose at least he avoided racist abuse) and only now i look back and think that i joined in with this, and whilst im certainly not homophobic, that behaviour was totally reprehensible and can only really be dealt with by a total ban and criminalising that behaviour as per racism.

I still dont think a total ban on fans will make a difference in terms of players coming out, as its going to be the day in, day out attitude of colleagues which makes the difference. If i were a football player, even if homosexuality was more accepted, i dont think i would ever come out - the fans are one thing, but the small minded fuckwits i would have to share a dressing room with would be another problem altogether.

I can recall being at a derby a few years ago where Ronaldo and Giggs was getting some abuse, Giggs in particular for having leggings on. If I recall the abuse they both got related to them being poofs, blah, blah. Then John O Shea came on and a chant went up of "here comes another one, he comes another one" clearly in relation to the allegations/rumours that he was gay.

I don’t imagine one person chanting stopped to think, actually what if this lad is gay and were abusing him because of this. It will be very hard to stop this kind of chanting as many people don’t see an issue with it. People don’t put it in the same bracket as racism for instance. I agree with what you have said about people just joining in and not really having a clue what they are singing about. The y*d thing at Spurs is a great example where many said they didn’t really know the background to it and just said it as 5000 other fans saying it.

[Im_Spartacus]

I can recall being at a derby a few years ago where Ronaldo and Giggs was getting some abuse, Giggs in particular for having leggings on. If I recall the abuse they both got related to them being poofs, blah, blah. Then John O Shea came on and a chant went up of "here comes another one, he comes another one" clearly in relation to the allegations/rumours that he was gay. I don’t imagine one person chanting stopped to think, actually what if this lad is gay and were abusing him because of this. It will be very hard to stop this kind of chanting as many people don’t see an issue with it. People don’t put it in the same bracket as racism for instance. I agree with what you have said about people just joining in and not really having a clue what they are singing about. The y*d thing at Spurs is a great example where many said they didn’t really know the background to it and just said it as 5000 other fans saying it.

I think i remember the game you refer to, but it was actually even worse than you describe. My memory of the treatment o shea got on that occasion was the whole of the ground chanting oshea takes it up the arse as he made his way to the touchline on being substituted. In the context of what you say about fans getting under the players skin, he was leaving the pitch - so would that be an offence or not?

Other one i remember getting real abuse was Jardel for Bolton for mincing

[mr_nool]

I honestly don't think all the people that say chant "who's the faggott in the pink" at an away fan with a pink shirt on are homophobic. I think it's a combination of factors alcohol being one that contribute to such chants. I don't condone it and it's wrong but I think only a minority would be homophobic and sincerely mean it. I reckon people I know on here have joined in with such chants and I can guarentee your not homophobic. It's just crowd mentality and and happens at football matches. Football fans are not known for engaging their brains at times. I stand by what I said and think football fans will do anything within their power to help their team. Seeing as we can't take free kicks or penalties the next best thing is to put players off their game whether that be chanting about extra marital affairs or someone's sexuality. Footballs fans can be extremely cruel but I bet some are loving mums, dads, sons, daughters etc etc away from the terraces.

thanks for the reply, some good points you make there based on common sense which i reckon resonate with most of us who have watched football over the last couple of decades.

To bring your thoughts and cute mancs together though, i'll give you an example which hurts me to this day, even thoughit happened probably 20 years ago. I used to watch Bury every week, and remember them playing torquay, (you know whats coming right).....so the goalkeeper lines up a goalkick, and rather than the standard ....whooooooooa your shit ahhhhh which was the standard at the time was...whoooooooooa justins got a shitty dick.......

I look back on that now and agree wholeheartedly with your view that the first time i heard it I didnt really know what was meant, till i asked around and found out he was supposed to be gay - then i joined in. He copped dogs abuse like this throughout the match (suppose at least he avoided racist abuse) and only now i look back and think that i joined in with this, and whilst im certainly not homophobic, that behaviour was totally reprehensible and can only really be dealt with by a total ban and criminalising that behaviour as per racism.

I still dont think a total ban on fans will make a difference in terms of players coming out, as its going to be the day in, day out attitude of colleagues which makes the difference. If i were a football player, even if homosexuality was more accepted, i dont think i would ever come out - the fans are one thing, but the small minded fuckwits i would have to share a dressing room with would be another problem altogether.

I can recall being at a derby a few years ago where Ronaldo and Giggs was getting some abuse, Giggs in particular for having leggings on. If I recall the abuse they both got related to them being poofs, blah, blah. Then John O Shea came on and a chant went up of "here comes another one, he comes another one" clearly in relation to the allegations/rumours that he was gay.

[highlight]I don’t imagine one person chanting stopped to think, actually what if this lad is gay and were abusing him because of this.[/highlight]It will be very hard to stop this kind of chanting as many people don’t see an issue with it. People don’t put it in the same bracket as racism for instance. I agree with what you have said about people just joining in and not really having a clue what they are singing about. The y*d thing at Spurs is a great example where many said they didn’t really know the background to it and just said it as 5000 other fans saying it.

It's not just about the players who gets the abuse thrown at them, though. How about the gay fan sitting in that crowd, having to listen to a bunch of grown men (and women) chanting about how being gay is something despicable? If you join in chants like that, you clearly think that homosexuality is a laughing matter, and that gay people are lesser humans.
Personally I would much rather be called gay than stupid, bad or incompetent.

[Ted Hughes]

Nope has nothing to do with weird s and m sex fantasies :) Your mate should only be banned if it has been made clear in advance that such behaviour would lead to banning. If your mate then did it anyway would be his or her own fault.

Yeah you're probably right, whilst I'm not going to tell anyone what does or doesn't offend them, I do worry that it's a slippery slope for bannings as more and more things become taboo.

Tough one.

And there is the problem.

No racist or homophobic abuse should be tolerated, ever.

But all words that someone somewhere decides 'may' be offensive to someone somewhere of a particular race, creed, religion, sexuality, etc, cannot all be claimed as un pc just because some people decide they are going to interpret it that way & be offended by it. It can't just be a blanket ban on everything.

Humour would cease to exist.

The Ryan Giggs in tights situation is an example. The nasty homophobic abuse is wrong, but the wolf whistles and general pisstaking is lighthearted & most of the gay geezers I know would be joining in with it & some use the very same words .

It's not all so simple.

[Wonderwall]

I remember Mr Beckhams wife getting abuse for being straight and taking it in all kinds of orifices. Also Natasha Giggs also got abuse with songs sang about her for having a straight affair. The point is, where does it stop? What is deemed wrong, right, funny cruel or banter? What one person finds outrageous another person might find funny and another cruel....

We all know Homophobia is a hot topic in our generation and we need to do what we can to stamp it out. However, when can the humour be introduced or will it always be a taboo subject?

My Nephew came out of the closet a few years ago and he was called "faggot" by his brother for years previous as it was obvious to the whole family (it really was an only gay in the village scenario). The first thing my other nephew said when they were in the same room was "alright Straight Boy" they are and always have been best mates as well as brothers and the banter between them is as healthy as ever. Any words exchanged are not meant maliciously but purely humour injected.

Just wondered if there was a place for this?

[Breks]

All thats going to be left when the pc brigade has had their way is humourless mard arses.

[Sister of fu]

I can recall being at a derby a few years ago where Ronaldo and Giggs was getting some abuse, Giggs in particular for having leggings on. If I recall the abuse they both got related to them being poofs, blah, blah. Then John O Shea came on and a chant went up of "here comes another one, he comes another one" clearly in relation to the allegations/rumours that he was gay. I don’t imagine one person chanting stopped to think, actually what if this lad is gay and were abusing him because of this. It will be very hard to stop this kind of chanting as many people don’t see an issue with it. People don’t put it in the same bracket as racism for instance. I agree with what you have said about people just joining in and not really having a clue what they are singing about. The y*d thing at Spurs is a great example where many said they didn’t really know the background to it and just said it as 5000 other fans saying it.

I think i remember the game you refer to, but it was actually even worse than you describe. My memory of the treatment o shea got on that occasion was the whole of the ground chanting oshea takes it up the arse as he made his way to the touchline on being substituted. In the context of what you say about fans getting under the players skin, he was leaving the pitch - so would that be an offence or not?

Other one i remember getting real abuse was Jardel for Bolton for mincing

What was aimed at O Shea was offence and out of order. Nothing was done or said about it though. I think the only case I can recall where action was taken, was against Spurs fans over Sol Campbell but I could be mistaken.

[Sister of fu]

All thats going to be left when the pc brigade has had their way is humourless mard arses.

Do you think I am being a mard arse about the incident with the steward??

[Slim]

I honestly don't think all the people that say chant "who's the faggott in the pink" at an away fan with a pink shirt on are homophobic. I think it's a combination of factors alcohol being one that contribute to such chants. I don't condone it and it's wrong but I think only a minority would be homophobic and sincerely mean it.

I reckon people I know on here have joined in with such chants and I can guarentee your not homophobic. It's just crowd mentality and and happens at football matches. Football fans are not known for engaging their brains at times. I stand by what I said and think football fans will do anything within their power to help their team. Seeing as we can't take free kicks or penalties the next best thing is to put players off their game whether that be chanting about extra marital affairs or someone's sexuality. Footballs fans can be extremely cruel but I bet some are loving mums, dads, sons, daughters etc etc away from the terraces.

Uh hum, it's YOU'RE, does that make me homophobic? or just homonymic?