High line plus slow centre backs.

[dazby]

I think it's quite obvious what the problem is, we're shit at the back. There's a number of considerations though and the main point being the CB pairing, not necessarily their speed. The constant chanhe does not help and the FBs will not be getting any confidence in regard to cover when they have been tasked to bomb-on. Demi is a wise old bird but has no legs at all and paired with Nasti, who needs a guiding hand, it doesn't make for the best partnership.

The answer is, fuck knows but Pellers has to sort it out. Personally I'd go with Demi and Lescott and forget about this transition from back to front. It's not as if we actually play that game regardless of what people think.

We need a PL wise bird in there to take control but for me it would be Kompany/Nasti or Demi/Lescott, one that knows/one that's learning. And before you say Kompany/Lescott, this isn't going to happen. It worked for a long time ut somebody decided it wasn't going to continue.

Tweet Tweet. So what you're writing is, we need this guy?



He looks fast.

[getdressedmctavish]

Rarely disagree with Doug but do over the goals being unlucky. For me Fernandinho's mistake summed him up. We've bought a defensive midfielder(I presume) who cant defend. For their first goal dinho's man should have been stopped at that position, if necessary by a foul and a possible booking. To me Dinho just doesn't have that ability in his locker( and later James Milner showed what a proper box to box midfielder should be able to accomplish with his run and cross from territory Dinho has never got into).Take those two basic mistakes out(Cliché and Dinho's) and the defence worked well.Ofcourse we'd benefit from a super duper CB but a left back and a tackling holding mid would improve things imo. God knows why we've never gone for Baines, he's exactly our sort of player.

[MilnersJaw]

Don't fancy spending 25 million for him I guess. English pushes up the price. Sure he can kick the ball but is he really that good defensively? We don't need more attacking its defence we need.

[kinkylola]

I think the biggest issue our back line is dealing with right now is the chopping and changing. Being able to rotate fullbacks is important, but when you combine that with 1 new CB and 1 young CB changing sporadically with Lescott or Garcia, everyone is going to be a bit out of whack. Throw individual errors into that ... which every single defensive player has been guilty of this season, and it'll look pretty bad at points.

a Consistent backline at this point would really help, but we're heading into huge congestion at this point in the season and it's not likely to happen. We're going to have to hope that we can get some stability after Christmas (and most importantly get vinnie back).

I agree that we'll probably need to buy a top class CB, and I think that lescott is probably on his way out, though he hasn't really been given a fair shake.

i think that while playing a high line, most important is that the back 4, and most importantly the 2 CB's, understand each other like brothers and are on the same wave length. We have no where near that now. Speed is important, but I'd also say that positioning / positinal awareness is even more important. I think that 1, if Vinnie stays healthy and 2, we pair him with someone who has mastered positioning and defensive awareness, we'll have a very impressive backline to build off of.

I hope that Vinnie isn't entering an injury prone phase because we fucking need him. I would however, be glad to know that the reason he's being left out so long is so that we can be sure he's fit again before bringing him back. It's no good if he's rushed back before ready, which I'm sure has happened many times in his city career.

[Ted Hughes]

Rarely disagree with Doug but do over the goals being unlucky. For me Fernandinho's mistake summed him up. We've bought a defensive midfielder(I presume) who cant defend. For their first goal dinho's man should have been stopped at that position, if necessary by a foul and a possible booking. To me Dinho just doesn't have that ability in his locker( and later James Milner showed what a proper box to box midfielder should be able to accomplish with his run and cross from territory Dinho has never got into).Take those two basic mistakes out(Cliché and Dinho's) and the defence worked well.Ofcourse we'd benefit from a super duper CB but a left back and a tackling holding mid would improve things imo. God knows why we've never gone for Baines, he's exactly our sort of player.

Fernandinho isn't a def mid.

[john@staustell]

Maybe the future is Rekik?

Think we've all fogotten him. I believe he's injured right now in Holland but to me the guy is pure class and I'm a little surprised he didn't make our squad this year.

[Ted Hughes]

Maybe the future is Rekik?

Think we've all fogotten him. I believe he's injured right now in Holland but to me the guy is pure class and I'm a little surprised he didn't make our squad this year.

I would currently pick Garcia over Rekik any day of the week & play Zabba or even Kolarov at cb before picking him; both are better in the air & faster on the ground.

[TheBlueCatsWhiskers]

Tweet Tweet. So what you're writing is, we need this guy? He looks fast.

Is that Garcia?

[Goaters 103]

Good points.

I think a fit Kompany - if that ever happens - alongside a new centre half in January will be the plan and the high line will stay. At the moment with the slower paced Demichelis and Nastsic there if the pass is right, then the line is breached as was the case last night.

Demichelis is a stop-gap player and nothing more, there in case of injuries/suspensions to better centre halves in the squad; if he is playing every week we have a major problem against top level teams who will expose his lack of pace.

What is essential is that on January 1st we have a deal done for a top class centre halve, paying top dollar for a class player. That player is out there - supposedly its Nicolas Otamendi of Porto - but either way this player needs to be brought in as its a gaping hole in our squad that will be exposed if we are continuing to hold such a high line up the pitch.

If we don't get one, do we just keep on with it anyway, building a routine for next season, & hope we get away with it enough to still win the title ?

If we don't get a fit Kompany and a new centre half I certainly wouldn't be playing it against decent teams Ted, but maybe that's how Pellegrini asks his back line to play whatever the opposition.

A new centre half in January is a necessity if we are to be successful this season, as its a gaping hole in our squad.

[getdressedmctavish]

Fernandinho isn't a def mid.The pissartist formerly known as Ted

Exactly Ted. It doesn't matter where the line is if you have four midfielders none of whom can tackle. I'm all for midfielders who can interchange but dinho is miles behind the others in creativity and needs to be able to stop players. I think it was Souness who said of us in Moscow...to play with fullbacks bombing on you need two centrehalves who attack the ball and atleast one holding midfielderWHO HAS A NOSE FOR DANGER. As we are at present we are likely to end up beautiful losers as we have seen 4 times already. The personnel are immaterial if the system is flawed.The biggest improvement the Count could make in my view is quickly spotting when we need a five man midfield and making that work.Look at Arsenal last night. Does anyone fancy their CB's. No I thought not.

[Ted Hughes]

Fernandinho isn't a def mid.The pissartist formerly known as Ted

Exactly Ted. It doesn't matter where the line is if you have four midfielders none of whom can tackle. I'm all for midfielders who can interchange but dinho is miles behind the others in creativity and needs to be able to stop players. I think it was Souness who said of us in Moscow...to play with fullbacks bombing on you need two centrehalves who attack the ball and atleast one holding midfielderWHO HAS A NOSE FOR DANGER. As we are at present we are likely to end up beautiful losers as we have seen 4 times already. The personnel are immaterial if the system is flawed.The biggest improvement the Count could make in my view is quickly spotting when we need a five man midfield and making that work.Look at Arsenal last night. Does anyone fancy their CB's. No I thought not.

Arsenal won last night purely down to dodgy finishing/final ball & poor defending by Dortmund. Several times Dortmund ran in a straight line through the centre of their midfield unchallenged, & Arteta should have been sent off for the challenges he did attempt, so I don't think they can be used as an example tbf.

And we were dreadful in Europe when we had 2 def mids; much worse than we are now, even in the Europa, as we weren't as comfortable on the ball. Cavani carved us up with both Nige & Barry in the team. Ronaldo etc ran through us with Barry & Garcia in there. So that isn't an answer in itself.

We played 5 in mid v Chelsea, so the Count may go with that when needed. But we still gave up a host of simple chances v Chelsea, in spite of dominating the game. They were due due to a poor defensive line etc. So even if we have 6 in there we still need to sort it out.

[FA cup winners 2006]

Apart from a few individual errors, I don't think the centre backs are our problem at all. This year the full backs are being asked to make the most drastic change to their game and it is taking a bit of time to come together.

If you look at our shape last year, the centre backs sat deeper with 1 or 2 centre mids ahead of them. Usually the full backs were ahead of the centre mids providing the width. if the full backs lost the ball or the ball knocked in behind them, either Barry, Yaya or one of the centre backs were able to cover for them.

This year the centre backs are pushed much higher up the field, this pushes the centre mids up higher again closer to the attackers. The position that the full backs occupy on the pitch has not changed much (maybe even playing a little deeper). this means the full backs find themselves only slightly ahead of the centre backs and behind the centre mids or at best in line with them. Now when they lose the ball, the opposing attacker has an angled run at goal.

It has happened a number of times this year with Zabaleta, Clichy and Kolarov. They just seem to have lapses in concentration, losing 50/50 balls or letting a man drift in behind. They also seem to have a tendency to let players drift in on their goal side (between them and the centre back) not fully realising their defensive duties. Again, last year this is the type of player that Barry would have picked up, but this year it is the full backs who should be dropping in and picking these runners up.

I wouldnt change anything yet, the centre backs seem to be dealing with everything coming straight at them and the full backs need to chip in and they will with a bit of time

[Sideshow Bob]

Fernandinho isn't a def mid.The pissartist formerly known as Ted

Exactly Ted. It doesn't matter where the line is if you have four midfielders none of whom can tackle. I'm all for midfielders who can interchange but dinho is miles behind the others in creativity and needs to be able to stop players. I think it was Souness who said of us in Moscow...to play with fullbacks bombing on you need two centrehalves who attack the ball and atleast one holding midfielderWHO HAS A NOSE FOR DANGER. As we are at present we are likely to end up beautiful losers as we have seen 4 times already. The personnel are immaterial if the system is flawed.The biggest improvement the Count could make in my view is quickly spotting when we need a five man midfield and making that work.Look at Arsenal last night. Does anyone fancy their CB's. No I thought not.

very harsh on fernandinho. he is going to be immense for us.

[DoomMerchant]

i think that if we keep using the same approach, with these defenders, we should be prepared to win 4-2 or lose 3-1. No in between it would seem. Kinda.Like. Malaga.

cheers

[Ted Hughes]

Apart from a few individual errors, I don't think the centre backs are our problem at all. This year the full backs are being asked to make the most drastic change to their game and it is taking a bit of time to come together.

If you look at our shape last year, the centre backs sat deeper with 1 or 2 centre mids ahead of them. Usually the full backs were ahead of the centre mids providing the width. if the full backs lost the ball or the ball knocked in behind them, either Barry, Yaya or one of the centre backs were able to cover for them.

This year the centre backs are pushed much higher up the field, this pushes the centre mids up higher again closer to the attackers. The position that the full backs occupy on the pitch has not changed much (maybe even playing a little deeper). this means the full backs find themselves only slightly ahead of the centre backs and behind the centre mids or at best in line with them. Now when they lose the ball, the opposing attacker has an angled run at goal.

It has happened a number of times this year with Zabaleta, Clichy and Kolarov. They just seem to have lapses in concentration, losing 50/50 balls or letting a man drift in behind. They also seem to have a tendency to let players drift in on their goal side (between them and the centre back) not fully realising their defensive duties. Again, last year this is the type of player that Barry would have picked up, but this year it is the full backs who should be dropping in and picking these runners up.

I wouldnt change anything yet, the centre backs seem to be dealing with everything coming straight at them and the full backs need to chip in and they will with a bit of time

The fullbacks have been crap as well, as shown by Clichy v Torres & CSKA & Zabba v Cardiff, but the cbs are a very long way from dealing with everything thrown at them. Things such as Chelsea's free headers/shots (we should have been 3 down before Clichy/Torres incident), all down to poor central defence, CSKA running straight through the centre on Tues with one player playing offside, also in the away leg, a lump straight down the centre, flicked on, Villa running straight through with a simple flick on, taking out both centre backs, and the many close shaves we have got away with, even v Hull/Newcastle.

It's a mess, whoever plays.

[getdressedmctavish]

Well Ted's right about the occasional failure of the cb's to deal with simple stuff, but I think that is more down to a lack of continuity and the fact that, without Kompany, Nastasic has been shown up for what I said last year to some abuse, a skillfull player who doesn't defend in the penalty area yet usually escapes criticism.But Comon, Ted, Arsenal made Dortmund look leaden and predictable last night purely through their tactical willingness to stay behind the ball and put a foot in, something we will need to do at some stage in Europe but currently look incapable of.Can't say I'm worried much cos the Counts footy is providing some blinding entertainment. I agree about the personnel v Napoli. But you know as well as I do that was down to attacking a side who play on the break and using two non trying strikers.Fact is, at the moment, Dinho is keeping the ball moving and that is it.Its more than he was doing but its a long way from immense. So when we need a tackle or two we're adding Garcia for fucksake.I am sure with 30 million quid we could have found someone to run around, pass the ball ten yards and capable of putting the oppo on the ground when necessary.In fact we could have got him for free......he's playing right back...lol.Anyway, I suppose the point is, I haven't noticed much difference in where the cb's are this year from last but I do see everyone being encouraged to go forward into the space infront of them and to switch positions and express themselves, both of which have raised the smile count by a million percent but increase the likelihood of us conceding.Just out of interest, watch RM when they lose the ball....foul straight away.Watch us... an encouraging waive....."after you, my friend"