Tactics talk

[mcfc1632]

Nah John - you misunderstand my meaning....


I watched it wide-eyed several times but eventually the pain of seeing him revert back to his world class jogger status of a few years ago became too much for me - that is when I stated to close my eyes - and take deep breaths

[mcfc1632]

Nah John - you misunderstand my meaning....


I watched it wide-eyed several times but eventually the pain of seeing him revert back to his world class jogger status of a few years ago became too much for me - that is when I started to close my eyes when it was shown - and take deep breaths

[mcfc1632]

I posted this in the wrong thread.

I have to say that 'in principle' I quite like the way the manager has us lined up for games - I see the problems as a bit more than 'we should not play 442 away from home'.

We generally play with 2 strikers when we play at home. Teams come to defend and we can afford to play two strikers - giving us more chance to break them down - even against the 'better teams' - supposedly like the scum - we played with 2. I endorse that we do this away as well as the situation should be largely the same - lower teams pack the defence and if they come at us 'toe to toe' then we should always win a 'shoot out'. At the really tough places - like Chelsea - we play with 1 striker, that is sensible and pragmatic. The only time that he has got it badly wrong was against BM when he stuck to his principles when perhaps we should have taken the 'Chelsea away' approach.

So in principle I agree with him - fuck going 451 at Sunderland, Palace etc - do that after we have scored a couple.

One of the problems for me is to do with the mindset of the players and staff (including Pellergrini) with regard to the effort required to beat the smaller clubs - this is not Spain!!! The best (worst) example for me was Cardiff - when we scored at last you could just feel the collective relief of the team and the collective sagging of effort, it was an attitude of now we have scored that is it - we became complacent and arrogant. Then we start trying again when 3 - 1 down. No PL team simply throws in the towel - this is not Spain!! Pellergrini should be in the faces of players at the first hint of relaxation and sub them for someone that will put the effort in - he needs to learn this lesson - not give too much credit to teams by playing the wrong formation.

Another issue is the woeful individual performances that we have seen from so many players and the lack of collective team effort apart from for the 'big games'. Not just Hart (but he has had his head so far up his arse), not just Edin (although compared to the beast his personal workrate is shocking), but Glichy, Lescott (when given a chance he only confirms why he cannot be 1st choice) and others. Fuck me and then there is Micah - all enthusiasm no football brain.

Then we get key injuries, Komps, Silva and now Fernandinho who was just starting to get tackling into his game and looking like a real player.

I can forgive Pellergrini for expecting that his squad players should be able to do a real job when called upon - they have generally let him down. I will be disappointed if he does not learn who can be relied upon and who cannot and select accordingly. Most importantly he needs to get them fired up from the start of the game no matter the opposition and only relax after we are 3 or 4 up.

For me - sort out the attitudes on this - including his own!!!

[Ted Hughes]

Don't understand all the anti Richards stuff. Zabba has been average to shit all season.

The bloke who scored was a fucking fullback, up against two City players & the keeper; easily enough cover. That's not Richards' fault.

And when Zabba came on, all he did was ruin Navas. Richards was making runs then dragging one of the defenders inside, giving Navas the opportunity to go 1v1. Zabaleta just stood out wide taking Navas' space & fucked up our width.

Re tactics; the Count picked Garcia, which made tactics irrelevant.

What is it with lack of one touch passing? I mean some players do it "accidentally" when in tight spot but most of the times it's two -three touches every single time. I can't believe that manager would instruct them to do so but something's wrong there.

Fernandinho & Silva are the main forces behind that. Garcia hides behind the oppo so the defenders don't pass to him. We know what Silva does but Fern also always wants the ball & gets it moving forward pretty much every time, he always knows who is behind him when he receives the ball so can turn & pass if given the slightest space & always gives his teammates an angle to pass to him especially the back 4. He is yards quicker at closing space than any other City player & often gets a toe in, spoiling the oppo move & starting off more 1 touch stuff of our own. He is absolutely fucking excellent.

Ted - where was their player receiving the ball and where was he when scored? Where was Richards at that time, what effort was he making to get back and provide support and what percentage of the 71 mins on the pitch to you think that he was in the RB position?

Why do we need 3 players to stop Phil fucking Bardsley ? There was him, & a bunch of City defenders; he scored.

Do you think Pellegrini highlighted the threat of Bardsley & said 'make sure you get back Micah' ? Or do you think it was more of a case of ' make sure youfill in when Micah goes forward James' ?

You really think that Micah should look at two players on Bardsley & go 'fuckinell they're in here!!' & sprint back, thus having fuck all energy to mount a counter ?

I would be thinking 'the ball might come to me any second now when they take it off Bardsley'.

[Ted Hughes]

I posted this in the wrong thread.

I have to say that 'in principle' I quite like the way the manager has us lined up for games - I see the problems as a bit more than 'we should not play 442 away from home'.

We generally play with 2 strikers when we play at home. Teams come to defend and we can afford to play two strikers - giving us more chance to break them down - even against the 'better teams' - supposedly like the scum - we played with 2. I endorse that we do this away as well as the situation should be largely the same - lower teams pack the defence and if they come at us 'toe to toe' then we should always win a 'shoot out'. At the really tough places - like Chelsea - we play with 1 striker, that is sensible and pragmatic. The only time that he has got it badly wrong was against BM when he stuck to his principles when perhaps we should have taken the 'Chelsea away' approach.

So in principle I agree with him - fuck going 451 at Sunderland, Palace etc - do that after we have scored a couple.

One of the problems for me is to do with the mindset of the players and staff (including Pellergrini) with regard to the effort required to beat the smaller clubs - this is not Spain!!! The best (worst) example for me was Cardiff - when we scored at last you could just feel the collective relief of the team and the collective sagging of effort, it was an attitude of now we have scored that is it - we became complacent and arrogant. Then we start trying again when 3 - 1 down. No PL team simply throws in the towel - this is not Spain!! Pellergrini should be in the faces of players at the first hint of relaxation and sub them for someone that will put the effort in - he needs to learn this lesson - not give too much credit to teams by playing the wrong formation.

Another issue is the woeful individual performances that we have seen from so many players and the lack of collective team effort apart from for the 'big games'. Not just Hart (but he has had his head so far up his arse), not just Edin (although compared to the beast his personal workrate is shocking), but Glichy, Lescott (when given a chance he only confirms why he cannot be 1st choice) and others. Fuck me and then there is Micah - all enthusiasm no football brain.

Then we get key injuries, Komps, Silva and now Fernandinho who was just starting to get tackling into his game and looking like a real player.

I can forgive Pellergrini for expecting that his squad players should be able to do a real job when called upon - they have generally let him down. I will be disappointed if he does not learn who can be relied upon and who cannot and select accordingly. Most importantly he needs to get them fired up from the start of the game no matter the opposition and only relax after we are 3 or 4 up.

For me - sort out the attitudes on this - including his own!!!

City were not lacking effort apart from in the lanky midfield department imo.

Everyone else ran their bollocks off.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Don't understand all the anti Richards stuff. Zabba has been average to shit all season.

The bloke who scored was a fucking fullback, up against two City players & the keeper; easily enough cover. That's not Richards' fault.

And when Zabba came on, all he did was ruin Navas. Richards was making runs then dragging one of the defenders inside, giving Navas the opportunity to go 1v1. Zabaleta just stood out wide taking Navas' space & fucked up our width.

Re tactics; the Count picked Garcia, which made tactics irrelevant.

What is it with lack of one touch passing? I mean some players do it "accidentally" when in tight spot but most of the times it's two -three touches every single time. I can't believe that manager would instruct them to do so but something's wrong there.

Fernandinho & Silva are the main forces behind that. Garcia hides behind the oppo so the defenders don't pass to him. We know what Silva does but Fern also always wants the ball & gets it moving forward pretty much every time, he always knows who is behind him when he receives the ball so can turn & pass if given the slightest space & always gives his teammates an angle to pass to him especially the back 4. He is yards quicker at closing space than any other City player & often gets a toe in, spoiling the oppo move & starting off more 1 touch stuff of our own. He is absolutely fucking excellent.

Ted - where was their player receiving the ball and where was he when scored? Where was Richards at that time, what effort was he making to get back and provide support and what percentage of the 71 mins on the pitch to you think that he was in the RB position?

Why do we need 3 players to stop Phil fucking Bardsley ? There was him, & a bunch of City defenders; he scored.

Do you think Pellegrini highlighted the threat of Bardsley & said 'make sure you get back Micah' ? Or do you think it was more of a case of ' make sure youfill in when Micah goes forward James' ?

You really think that Micah should look at two players on Bardsley & go 'fuckinell they're in here!!' & sprint back, thus having fuck all energy to mount a counter ?

I would be thinking 'the ball might come to me any second now when they take it off Bardsley'.

Another thing on that, Micah was a couple of yards away from Adam Johnson when that ball was played through to Bardsley. Was Micah therefore not doing his job of marking his man at the time?

I'm not defending his general performance btw.

[mcfc1632]

Do not want to distract the thread into a 'Micah' discussion - but feels a bit like whistling in the wind to try and defend him. I have watched the replay and all I see is Micah jogging slowly looking left and right like he was admiring the Blackpool lights. Then he makes no effort.

Anyway, the example of him making no effort to get back during the goal - was 'indicative' - watch the whole match again and count the number of times in 71 mins he made effort to support the defence - in fact list the number of positive contributions he made to the defence at all.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Don't understand all the anti Richards stuff. Zabba has been average to shit all season.

The bloke who scored was a fucking fullback, up against two City players & the keeper; easily enough cover. That's not Richards' fault.

And when Zabba came on, all he did was ruin Navas. Richards was making runs then dragging one of the defenders inside, giving Navas the opportunity to go 1v1. Zabaleta just stood out wide taking Navas' space & fucked up our width.

Re tactics; the Count picked Garcia, which made tactics irrelevant.

What is it with lack of one touch passing? I mean some players do it "accidentally" when in tight spot but most of the times it's two -three touches every single time. I can't believe that manager would instruct them to do so but something's wrong there.

Fernandinho & Silva are the main forces behind that. Garcia hides behind the oppo so the defenders don't pass to him. We know what Silva does but Fern also always wants the ball & gets it moving forward pretty much every time, he always knows who is behind him when he receives the ball so can turn & pass if given the slightest space & always gives his teammates an angle to pass to him especially the back 4. He is yards quicker at closing space than any other City player & often gets a toe in, spoiling the oppo move & starting off more 1 touch stuff of our own. He is absolutely fucking excellent.

I get that the quality of our passing drops when Silva and (to lesser extent) Fernandinho is off but guys like Yaya, Nasri and Aguero SHOULD be able to put some crisp one touch combos together. I don't get it. And it's been evident in lot of other games this year as well. Silva does it instinctively but some other guys are avoiding it.

[DoomMerchant]

I still think we lack creativity when Silva isn't playing. Newcastle in the cup was an example of what he brings to the side, he just frees things up around him and the gaps appear. I have no idea if Jovetic can do the same job (doubt it) but worryingly he seems to be turning into another Bojinov (or something else isn't right, hence why he played longer for Montenegro against England than he has for City of late). We need cover for Silva or even someone threatening his starting role.

We should bring in Juan Mata in january. He is out of favour with moreen so it is a possibility he could be sold.

Yes. Absolutely.

Mourinho would drown him in his water bowl before he flogged him to us.

cheers

[Ted Hughes]

Don't understand all the anti Richards stuff. Zabba has been average to shit all season.

The bloke who scored was a fucking fullback, up against two City players & the keeper; easily enough cover. That's not Richards' fault.

And when Zabba came on, all he did was ruin Navas. Richards was making runs then dragging one of the defenders inside, giving Navas the opportunity to go 1v1. Zabaleta just stood out wide taking Navas' space & fucked up our width.

Re tactics; the Count picked Garcia, which made tactics irrelevant.

What is it with lack of one touch passing? I mean some players do it "accidentally" when in tight spot but most of the times it's two -three touches every single time. I can't believe that manager would instruct them to do so but something's wrong there.

Fernandinho & Silva are the main forces behind that. Garcia hides behind the oppo so the defenders don't pass to him. We know what Silva does but Fern also always wants the ball & gets it moving forward pretty much every time, he always knows who is behind him when he receives the ball so can turn & pass if given the slightest space & always gives his teammates an angle to pass to him especially the back 4. He is yards quicker at closing space than any other City player & often gets a toe in, spoiling the oppo move & starting off more 1 touch stuff of our own. He is absolutely fucking excellent.

I get that the quality of our passing drops when Silva and (to lesser extent) Fernandinho is off but guys like Yaya, Nasri and Aguero SHOULD be able to put some crisp one touch combos together. I don't get it. And it's been evident in lot of other games this year as well. Silva does it instinctively but some other guys are avoiding it.

Nasri tries to do it but doesn't seem to get others at it. I don't know why Yaya doesn't take charge but he never has, in fact if you look back to away games over several years, like in the Europa League etc, he has been one of the worst culprits for slowing things down, holding the ball too long, then losing it. Yet when we do start with the quick passing game, he is right at home in the middle of it & knows exactly how to do it. Strange.

Garcia was the main reason we lost at Sunderland imo though (apart from Milner's riduculous dive & Demichelis' pathetic non covering). We passed it ok once he went off, but Sunderland had loads of energy left to cover everything because we actually passed it worse than them 1st half, so they hadn't needed to chase. 90 mins oppo chasing the ball, rather than 45, & we will win most games imo.

Have to just keep at it until it works full time.

[MilnersJaw]

Nasri tries to do it but doesn't seem to get others at it. I don't know why Yaya doesn't take charge but he never has, in fact if you look back to away games over several years, like in the Europa League etc, he has been one of the worst culprits for slowing things down, holding the ball too long, then losing it. Yet when we do start with the quick passing game, he is right at home in the middle of it & knows exactly how to do it. Strange.

Garcia was the main reason we lost at Sunderland imo though (apart from Milner's riduculous dive & Demichelis' pathetic non covering). We passed it ok once he went off, but Sunderland had loads of energy left to cover everything because we actually passed it worse than them 1st half, so they hadn't needed to chase. 90 mins oppo chasing the ball, rather than 45, & we will win most games imo.

Have to just keep at it until it works full time.

Where was micha for that goal? Why was Milner at right back, why wasn't micha doing something.

[mcfc1632]

In this clip : http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sun ... 6F82E828A2

You can see Micah - he looks around, admires the view - has a bit of a jog but at no point makes any effort.

If you assume there is a good reason that Milner had to be in the RB position - apart from the obvious because someone was AWOL again

and

If you also assume that Micah can be let off for not making any effort to close down before the pass was made to Bardsley

and

you therefore accept that he could not get to Bardsley to stop him.....

Still

what I cannot accept is that the lazy fucker makes no effort to get back just in case there is a further play - save from the keeper, a tackle from Milner perhaps. But the question I would like to address is how many of the 71 mins Micah was on the pitch did he spend in his position and therefore not cause better players to have to cover for him - my starting bid is 1 - which is when Sunderland kicked off.

[Ted Hughes]

In this clip : http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sun ... 6F82E828A2

You can see Micah - he looks around, admires the view - has a bit of a jog but at no point makes any effort.

If you assume there is a good reason that Milner had to be in the RB position - apart from the obvious because someone was AWOL again

and

If you also assume that Micah can be let off for not making any effort to close down before the pass was made to Bardsley

and

you therefore accept that he could not get to Bardsley to stop him.....

Still

what I cannot accept is that the lazy fucker makes no effort to get back just in case there is a further play - save from the keeper, a tackle from Milner perhaps. But the question I would like to address is how many of the 71 mins Micah was on the pitch did he spend in his position and therefore not cause better players to have to cover for him - my starting bid is 1 - which is when Sunderland kicked off.

I imagine he spent a similar amount of time in his position as Zabba does. Watch any game this season & you will find Milner etc covering for Zabba, Clichy in exactly the same manner.

There are FIVE City players close to Bardsley & our goal. If any of you are telling me that you would have run back in there & made it six, then either you are advocating a school playground method of everyone running after the ball at once, or you are on a wind up.

There is NO blame for Micah Richards in that goal. Milner took a fucking dive & Demichelis stopped like a twat, instead of using his brain/experience & defending it. It was horrible defending of a simple, comfortable situation. If Micah had been there & done the same as either, he would rightly be getting shit for it.

I recon there are literally hundreds of instances of our other fullbacks doing what exactly Micah did. It is not even worthy of the slightest mention.

edit: and WHO is Micah jogging with ? Why it's none other than the winger, his man.

[john68]

Nah John - you misunderstand my meaning....


I watched it wide-eyed several times but eventually the pain of seeing him revert back to his world class jogger status of a few years ago became too much for me - that is when I stated to close my eyes - and take deep breaths

...and I thought you had super powers.....Ah well!!!....:-)

[Dameerto]

Where was micha for that goal? Why was Milner at right back, why wasn't micha doing something.

One of the things that makes us so effective at attacking (most of the time) is that we can flood the opposition's half with numbers, part of the plan is to use a fullback to either stretch a defence or to come inside if we have a wide player (like Navas) already doing that - to cover our vulnerability when we lose the ball and they counter attack, our midfielders are there to act as temporary fullbacks (or central defenders) while we make the switch from attack to defence. That's why Milner was the last defender when Sunderland scored.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

In this clip : http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sun ... 6F82E828A2

You can see Micah - he looks around, admires the view - has a bit of a jog but at no point makes any effort.

If you assume there is a good reason that Milner had to be in the RB position - apart from the obvious because someone was AWOL again

and

If you also assume that Micah can be let off for not making any effort to close down before the pass was made to Bardsley

and

you therefore accept that he could not get to Bardsley to stop him.....

Still

what I cannot accept is that the lazy fucker makes no effort to get back just in case there is a further play - save from the keeper, a tackle from Milner perhaps. But the question I would like to address is how many of the 71 mins Micah was on the pitch did he spend in his position and therefore not cause better players to have to cover for him - my starting bid is 1 - which is when Sunderland kicked off.

I imagine he spent a similar amount of time in his position as Zabba does. Watch any game this season & you will find Milner etc covering for Zabba, Clichy in exactly the same manner.

There are FIVE City players close to Bardsley & our goal. If any of you are telling me that you would have run back in there & made it six, then either you are advocating a school playground method of everyone running after the ball at once, or you are on a wind up.

There is NO blame for Micah Richards in that goal. Milner took a fucking dive & Demichelis stopped like a twat, instead of using his brain/experience & defending it. It was horrible defending of a simple, comfortable situation. If Micah had been there & done the same as either, he would rightly be getting shit for it.

I recon there are literally hundreds of instances of our other fullbacks doing what exactly Micah did. It is not even worthy of the slightest mention.

edit: and WHO is Micah jogging with ? Why it's none other than the winger, his man.

To be fair to Milner he did take a forearm to the back of the head.

http://minus.com/lcxcSjOCxfqRd