Vinny

[Nigels Tackle]

need to turn him into the villa version of paul mcgrath...

Without the appetite for Guinness

guinness is good for you

[Green & Blue]

guinness is good for you

Good things come to those who wait

[Spurge]

Made of glass.

Love him, but honestly....we need two world class CBs between now and next summer, otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

Vinnie will be on the outside of our best CB pairing within a year at the current rate. He's just one of "those" players who can't stay fit.

Sad. I bet he's even more gutted than we are.

The problem as I see it, is that I don't trust people in football to actually know what a centre back is anymore. They just swap one big clueless posing pillock for another, instead of trying to build a proper defensive backline that actually defends.

And half the people on here think that's the way to go.

If Don Howe, Tony Adams & Keown had David Luiz coming through as a kid at Arsenal, the bloke would be fucking awesome now. He's big strong fast & good in the air, but he has no fucking idea what defending is, same as 90% of people who work in & watch football.

One day someone will catch on how to defend again & build a team which does it, & then all these useless fucking so called 'footballing' centre backs will be back in the dustbin.

Paul Futcher would be worth a fucking fortune these days.

Some truth in what you say - defending used to be an art form particularly in the italian game.

I really enjoyed the 2003 champ league final which saw AC Milan and Juve cancel each other out with a lesson in the art of defending - goalless after 120 mins before the intervention of penalties.

Arsenal enjoyed their glory years built up on a formidable defence - Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Bould, Adams etc

Defending as defending should be (and once was) is definitely out of fashion nowadays, but part of this is because you can no longer make a proper tackle without conceding a free kick. All this crap from commentators and experts saying 'he got the ball first but still took the man' meaning it's a free kick, seriously annoys me. It's a contact sport for fuck sake, and what about momentum, if you play the ball you can't change you momentum or apply the brakes. There's a difference between a reckless challenge and a well timed challenge, where in both examples the man is played after the ball, which the modern laws of the game don't allow the referee to differentiate.

So has the game developed or has it gone backwards? Where defending is concerned it's certainly the latter, offensive play is everything and strikers take the glory - I guess it's supply and demand to a large extent.

Finally if Paul Futcher would be worth a fortune what price Alan Kernaghan? Who is now with Uwe Rosler at Brentford as part of the coaching team I believe.

[getdressedmctavish]

Interesting point, Ted. It will be interesting to see whether Maurine, who to be fair likes a CB to get stuck in, can get into Loise's head or whether he gives up on him. You would have liked Tommy Booth, assuming you're too young to have seen him. He Could play and dish it out.Its interesting that in the obsession with Lescott's footballing ability, we've lost a good deal of what he had. Think he got around ten goals for Everton the season before he came to us...can't remember when he last scored. But at least he attacks the ball in our box and see's himself as responsible for anything that goes in. Always holds his hand up, unlike some.

[sheblue]

Give the man a chance, such whinging. He is injured, he gets injured. He will recover. It's not his fault his replacements are crap.

[dazby]

Hes getting into the Darren Anderson bracket - we cant rely on him at all.
Need a top class replacement in January and then maybe (depending on any more fucking injuries that he has between now and then) sell him in the summer whilst we can get top dollar for him.

He actually fucks me off with his constant injuries.

Oh Carl, you've done it again. Sell the captain. Good grief.

[Clowncrete]

Made of glass.

Love him, but honestly....we need two world class CBs between now and next summer, otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

Vinnie will be on the outside of our best CB pairing within a year at the current rate. He's just one of "those" players who can't stay fit.

Sad. I bet he's even more gutted than we are.

The problem as I see it, is that I don't trust people in football to actually know what a centre back is anymore. They just swap one big clueless posing pillock for another, instead of trying to build a proper defensive backline that actually defends.

And half the people on here think that's the way to go.

If Don Howe, Tony Adams & Keown had David Luiz coming through as a kid at Arsenal, the bloke would be fucking awesome now. He's big strong fast & good in the air, but he has no fucking idea what defending is, same as 90% of people who work in & watch football.

One day someone will catch on how to defend again & build a team which does it, & then all these useless fucking so called 'footballing' centre backs will be back in the dustbin.

Paul Futcher would be worth a fucking fortune these days.

Asking out of curiosity, Ted. If you were responsible for the club's transfers, which center back would you be aiming for in January?

[nottsblue]

Daniel Agger in January would be a good start. Followed by Coentrau(?). Still like Chiellini but doubt he'd leave Italy

[Hazy2]

Vermalen, he would also make a decent partner when Vinny gets fit. Knows the prem and is ready for a change, plus left foot. Should have been done in the summer.

[Ted Hughes]

Made of glass.

Love him, but honestly....we need two world class CBs between now and next summer, otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

Vinnie will be on the outside of our best CB pairing within a year at the current rate. He's just one of "those" players who can't stay fit.

Sad. I bet he's even more gutted than we are.

The problem as I see it, is that I don't trust people in football to actually know what a centre back is anymore. They just swap one big clueless posing pillock for another, instead of trying to build a proper defensive backline that actually defends.

And half the people on here think that's the way to go.

If Don Howe, Tony Adams & Keown had David Luiz coming through as a kid at Arsenal, the bloke would be fucking awesome now. He's big strong fast & good in the air, but he has no fucking idea what defending is, same as 90% of people who work in & watch football.

One day someone will catch on how to defend again & build a team which does it, & then all these useless fucking so called 'footballing' centre backs will be back in the dustbin.

Paul Futcher would be worth a fucking fortune these days.

Asking out of curiosity, Ted. If you were responsible for the club's transfers, which center back would you be aiming for in January?

Some of the players we have been linked with, I haven't seen enough of to comment. They may be perfect for all I know.

I wouldn't want anyone from the Premier League; they are all shit & not as good as the ones we have already. I don't want either of Dortmund's pair although I'd much prefer them to Chiellini or any Premier League players.

If Pepe or Thiago Silva was available then I'd have either, but they won't be, so the answer is: nobody I've seen.

I'm hoping the scouts have found something better than most of the useless posing clueless fucks currently masquerading as central defenders around Europe.

[Hazy2]

We don't need world beaters the best team in Europe at the present time have decent nothing more centre halfs, what we have is average Back 4 players I include a 100% commited Zabba, crowd fav but nothing special, we have no leaders or warrior type who is not to be fucked about with and organises the team from the back, we have lost ground in that department, going forward we are as good as anything we lack spice in the tackle a nasty streak throughout the team. That is why we lose the games we do, no player is willing to say fuck this or to Larson after his take the piss tackle av it cunt I will take a yellow you cheeky cunt. I have seen the stills it is handbags, Tony Adams and Bould would have waited or overun a ball to leave a load on Larson at some point in that game. Hwe would have known he had it coming, Roy Keane is a proper cunt sad to say this we need that type of cunt or two. Gerrard has carried the scousers for a decade, we need his quality and desire badly. Plus his nasty fuck off streak he showed with Van Persie recently. We have easy street players who are top level at certain aspects and shit scared at the foot in to match the grit and let the class take over, the defeats since last season and now confirm Mancini was right about the soft under-belly.. Richard ever resorted to diving on Sunday WTF is that about. This season is just a carry forward of QPR and other pathetic away form.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Hes getting into the Darren Anderson bracket - we cant rely on him at all.
Need a top class replacement in January and then maybe (depending on any more fucking injuries that he has between now and then) sell him in the summer whilst we can get top dollar for him.

He actually fucks me off with his constant injuries.

Oh Carl, you've done it again. Sell the captain. Good grief.

Did the "maybe" confuse you ??...I know you are not the brightest spark on here Dazby , but try and read all of my post and then think....theres a good lad.

[dazby]

Hes getting into the Darren Anderson bracket - we cant rely on him at all.
Need a top class replacement in January and then maybe (depending on any more fucking injuries that he has between now and then) sell him in the summer whilst we can get top dollar for him.

He actually fucks me off with his constant injuries.

Oh Carl, you've done it again. Sell the captain. Good grief.

Did the "maybe" confuse you ??...I know you are not the brightest spark on here Dazby , but try and read all of my post and then think....theres a good lad.

Yes Carl, I've read it. All of it. A couple of times. You maybe want to sell the captain.

Vinnie is going to manage this club one day. He is the embodiment of what this club represents. He stays for as long as he wants.

[Beefymcfc]

It's an onging issue that Vinnie thought he could get away with. He's carried on regardless until it got too much, and who could blame him, if he stopped every couple of games he wouldn't be the cult figure he is today.

He'll try everything to ensure he's got the fans glory, endearing himself with his macho ways, but the biggest mistake he made, in my eyes, was playing for his nation when he didn't have the go-ahead. He seemed to play though after that instead of resting and led to him dropping out for the rest of the season.

We're doing it right now, not pushing him back into games (not just us btw), and hopefully he'll have the rest and treatment that he should've had in the first place.

[Hazy2]

Hes getting into the Darren Anderson bracket - we cant rely on him at all.
Need a top class replacement in January and then maybe (depending on any more fucking injuries that he has between now and then) sell him in the summer whilst we can get top dollar for him.

He actually fucks me off with his constant injuries.

Oh Carl, you've done it again. Sell the captain. Good grief.

Did the "maybe" confuse you ??...I know you are not the brightest spark on here Dazby , but try and read all of my post and then think....theres a good lad.

Yes Carl, I've read it. All of it. A couple of times. You maybe want to sell the captain.

Vinnie is going to manage this club one day. He is the embodiment of what this club represents. He stays for as long as he wants.

Nice thought, football does not work like that. Rossler must be in with a decent shout then ? he could be sunning it in Monaco, as much as your dream.
After the World Cup.

[dazby]

.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I hope I'm not being overtly daft in posting this but perhaps the answer to our central defensive problems lies within the Club rather than buying from the outside - after all, we'll have to put the cheque-book away at some point in the future - and perhaps there should be some thinking 'outside the box' (if you'll pardon the non-intentional pun) to address this burning issue.

I'm thinking of a parallel with the Wolves side in the very early 1970s. At that time, they had some terrific attacking players (Derek Dougan, Bobby Gould, Hugh Curran, Dave Wagstaffe etc) but they were having real problems at the back because of injuries, loss of form etc. to their 'accepted' central defenders.

They tried pairing John McAlle (a decent enough full back) with Frank Munro (a midfielder) together in the middle and this unlikely combination quickly developed into an effective partnership for a number of years.

This thought made me wonder if someone like Milner could be paired with someone like Rodwell to provide a more consistent partnership than what we are seeing at the moment. I'm not necessarily advocating these two players but merely using them as an example to the possibility of other players at the Club being used in different ways to their present roles.

As I said at the start, I hope this notion isn't too ridiculous to contemplate....even though it might be.

[Saul Goodman]

His health and injury woes sure aren't doing him any favors in terms of dispelling any claims about his injury proneness