Some Interesting Stats

[zuricity]

If the game is so simple and there no need to know anything why are the dog and duck pub not PL champs.

Because they are not good enough. Why on earth would you ask such a silly question?

[Rag_hater]

If the game is so simple and there no need to know anything why are the dog and duck pub not PL champs.

Because they are not good enough. Why on earth would you ask such a silly question?

I was keeping it simple.
And this argument that seeing as we have so much possession how is it possible that we get so many fouls against us.From what I have been able to find out the argument that teams have to foul to get the ball back seems to hold water.

Us,57% poss 228 fouls,
Dippers 53% 224 fouls,
Spuds 55% 251 fouls,
C*nts 53% 260 fouls,
Dippers2 53% 264 fouls,
Chavs 51% 259 fouls,
Arse54% 237 fouls
Southam 57% 274fouls,

Barca poss 61% 359 fouls
Bayern 63% 304 foul.
The more you foul play robustly the more you keep the ball.

[Ted Hughes]

If the game is so simple and there no need to know anything why are the dog and duck pub not PL champs.

Because they are not good enough. Why on earth would you ask such a silly question?

I was keeping it simple.
And this argument that seeing as we have so much possession how is it possible that we get so many fouls against us.From what I have been able to find out the argument that teams have to foul to get the ball back seems to hold water.

Us,57% poss 228 fouls,
Dippers 53% 224 fouls,
Spuds 55% 251 fouls,
C*nts 53% 260 fouls,
Dippers2 53% 264 fouls,
Chavs 51% 259 fouls,
Arse54% 237 fouls
Southam 57% 274fouls,

Barca poss 61% 359 fouls
Bayern 63% 304 foul.
The more you foul play robustly the more you keep the ball.

The relevant stats would be a game by game comparison & need to take into account which referees were involved etc.

It could easily be the case that Utd Liverpool Arsenal etc concede more fouls than the opposition in certain games, but how many more ? 2, 3, ? Lets have a look at away games at Sunderland. I won't bother with exact possession figures but lets assume all teams had more than Sunderland.

Fouls: Sunderland 11 Chelsea 14, Snlnd 12 Arsenal 10, Snlnd 10 Liverpool 8, Sunderland 15 Utd 13, so typically Sunderland concede 10 or more fouls & the oppo similar.

Oh look: Sunderland 6 City 13.

[london blue 2]

I think raggers is onto something. I used to watch city playing against the better quality sides (when we were shit) and think, I wish we could dominate games like this.

United, as an example, regularly made silly fouls when teams were breaking, thus forcing them to revert to the long ball which resulted in them winning the ball back and retaining it for another lengthily period.

[Ted Hughes]

I think raggers is onto something. I used to watch city playing against the better quality sides (when we were shit) and think, I wish we could dominate games like this.

United, as an example, regularly made silly fouls when teams were breaking, thus forcing them to revert to the long ball which resulted in them winning the ball back and retaining it for another lengthily period.

True enough, but the last time I did a comparison, they were getting punished much less for fouls than us in similar games, & often, as with the Sunderland game, less than the opposition. At home, they tended to get penalised much less than us.

Be interesting to see how that compares now Ferguson has gone.

[Twobob]

The relevant stats would be a game by game comparison & need to take into account which referees were involved etc.

It could easily be the case that Utd Liverpool Arsenal etc concede more fouls than the opposition in certain games, but how many more ? 2, 3, ? Lets have a look at away games at Sunderland. I won't bother with exact possession figures but lets assume all teams had more than Sunderland.

Fouls: Sunderland 11 Chelsea 14, Snlnd 12 Arsenal 10, Snlnd 10 Liverpool 8, Sunderland 15 Utd 13, so typically Sunderland concede 10 or more fouls & the oppo similar.

Oh look: Sunderland 6 City 13.

Far more telling stats than an overall picture. Would expect to see something similar in most games

[dazby]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

[Original Dub]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

Have you ever thought that refs might be a bit unfair to us?

[Alex Sapphire]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

Have you ever thought that refs might be a bit unfair to us?

yup.
Them, and the press
bastards :)

[Beefymcfc]

These few extracts from Halsey's book tell me all I need to know about the refereeing in this country.
_______________

"[PGMOL] are running the whole show on an apparent power trip while creating an atmosphere of fear and paranoia," Halsey said.

Q. Why create such an atmosphere unless you are trying to exert some form of power over another?

"That is not helping the weaker officials improve and the system often confuses and frequently frustrates the best referees who get mixed messages about what is expected of them."

Q. What mixed messages. Is Halsey saying that they are given direction on how to referee an individual game?

On Riley and Barratt.

"Riley had a reputation for being an over-fussy and pedantic ref. And his manner as general manager of elite referees - whereby he liaises with the Premier League and League Managers' Association - appears not to have changed."

Q. If Riley is how described, I take it we won't see Dean on a pitch for a while unless he was carrying out his duties as perscribed? And what about those liaison's, why are they needed at all, afterall, the PGMOL should be an independent body that should not be influenced by a business which is there for it's own needs? Who do the Premier League answer to?

Halsey described Barratt, and the dual role he plays as both their boss who draws up the match lists and also offer advice as a "mentor", as a "big problem".

He said: "How can he do that (be their mentor) when he wears another hat as head of the evaluation committee, which adjudicates and has the power to mark down referees, axe officials from matches or ultimately kick them off the list?

"There is a clear potential conflict of interest in the two roles."

Q. Halsey is quite correct that this man should not be overseeing both. How can it be deemed impartial that somebody who can basically finish your career in the elite league then be giving you advise on how to go about refereeing your next set of games? Is this the same man who dropped ref's to the lower leagues or stopped them from refereeing at the Swamp for up to 12 months after the Rags lost under their charge?
___________

The whole lot stinks to high heaven. We've seen over many years that the referee can affect any given game and I no longer see them as adjudicators of the sport but more of controllers for the PL and Sky.

[Rag_hater]

These few extracts from Halsey's book tell me all I need to know about the refereeing in this country.
_______________

"[PGMOL] are running the whole show on an apparent power trip while creating an atmosphere of fear and paranoia," Halsey said.

Q. Why create such an atmosphere unless you are trying to exert some form of power over another?

"That is not helping the weaker officials improve and the system often confuses and frequently frustrates the best referees who get mixed messages about what is expected of them."

Q. What mixed messages. Is Halsey saying that they are given direction on how to referee an individual game?

On Riley and Barratt.

"Riley had a reputation for being an over-fussy and pedantic ref. And his manner as general manager of elite referees - whereby he liaises with the Premier League and League Managers' Association - appears not to have changed."

Q. If Riley is how described, I take it we won't see Dean on a pitch for a while unless he was carrying out his duties as perscribed? And what about those liaison's, why are they needed at all, afterall, the PGMOL should be an independent body that should not be influenced by a business which is there for it's own needs? Who do the Premier League answer to?

Halsey described Barratt, and the dual role he plays as both their boss who draws up the match lists and also offer advice as a "mentor", as a "big problem".

He said: "How can he do that (be their mentor) when he wears another hat as head of the evaluation committee, which adjudicates and has the power to mark down referees, axe officials from matches or ultimately kick them off the list?

"There is a clear potential conflict of interest in the two roles."

Q. Halsey is quite correct that this man should not be overseeing both. How can it be deemed impartial that somebody who can basically finish your career in the elite league then be giving you advise on how to go about refereeing your next set of games? Is this the same man who dropped ref's to the lower leagues or stopped them from refereeing at the Swamp for up to 12 months after the Rags lost under their charge?
___________

The whole lot stinks to high heaven. We've seen over many years that the referee can affect any given game and I no longer see them as adjudicators of the sport but more of controllers for the PL and Sky.

Well as it is so clear who the culprits are it seems to me the sheikh should spend some of his money on buying the refs.
We have to play that game.
If you can't beat them join them

[Beefymcfc]

These few extracts from Halsey's book tell me all I need to know about the refereeing in this country.
_______________

"[PGMOL] are running the whole show on an apparent power trip while creating an atmosphere of fear and paranoia," Halsey said.

Q. Why create such an atmosphere unless you are trying to exert some form of power over another?

"That is not helping the weaker officials improve and the system often confuses and frequently frustrates the best referees who get mixed messages about what is expected of them."

Q. What mixed messages. Is Halsey saying that they are given direction on how to referee an individual game?

On Riley and Barratt.

"Riley had a reputation for being an over-fussy and pedantic ref. And his manner as general manager of elite referees - whereby he liaises with the Premier League and League Managers' Association - appears not to have changed."

Q. If Riley is how described, I take it we won't see Dean on a pitch for a while unless he was carrying out his duties as perscribed? And what about those liaison's, why are they needed at all, afterall, the PGMOL should be an independent body that should not be influenced by a business which is there for it's own needs? Who do the Premier League answer to?

Halsey described Barratt, and the dual role he plays as both their boss who draws up the match lists and also offer advice as a "mentor", as a "big problem".

He said: "How can he do that (be their mentor) when he wears another hat as head of the evaluation committee, which adjudicates and has the power to mark down referees, axe officials from matches or ultimately kick them off the list?

"There is a clear potential conflict of interest in the two roles."

Q. Halsey is quite correct that this man should not be overseeing both. How can it be deemed impartial that somebody who can basically finish your career in the elite league then be giving you advise on how to go about refereeing your next set of games? Is this the same man who dropped ref's to the lower leagues or stopped them from refereeing at the Swamp for up to 12 months after the Rags lost under their charge?
___________

The whole lot stinks to high heaven. We've seen over many years that the referee can affect any given game and I no longer see them as adjudicators of the sport but more of controllers for the PL and Sky.

Well as it is so clear who the culprits are it seems to me the sheikh should spend some of his money on buying the refs.
We have to play that game.
If you can't beat them join them

Sorry, there's none left to buy, Sky own them all.

[dazby]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

Have you ever thought that refs might be a bit unfair to us?

Have you ever thought that fans of every club think that the refs are unfair to them?

[Tokyo Blue]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

Have you ever thought that refs might be a bit unfair to us?

Have you ever thought that fans of every club think that the refs are unfair to them?

Have you ever thought that some of them might be wrong?

[dazby]

I think we foul a lot because we press a lot. When they have it we foul to slow the play down and give the defence time to set.

Have you ever thought that refs might be a bit unfair to us?

Have you ever thought that fans of every club think that the refs are unfair to them?

Have you ever thought that some of them might be wrong?

Sure. I'm sure though that both fans could find fault with decisions during the same game and make a case that they're hard done by. They could both be wrong and could both be right.

mmm, very zen.

[zuricity]

Well i think that many of the fouls given against us are weak and questionable. For example the one Kun apparenty made in the dying minutes of the Sunderland match.A perfect , clean , win the ball tackle that allows Riley to give Sunderland critical timewasting opportunities on the half way line.

I don't care about stats, i hate it when referees don't allow the advantage rule. As is often the case when we win the ball back and break quickly.

City players are carded for minor offences. However you rarely see City players , lunging at the opposition or elbowing them .

Quality football will win in the end though.

[Im_Spartacus]

I don't care about stats, i hate it when referees don't allow the advantage rule. As is often the case when we win the ball back and break quickly.

Interesting in light of your comment that we haven't scored a goal from counter attacking play from these stats.

I do feel we are penalised by overly fussy decisions on winning the ball back.

We clearly aren't a dirty team - but you would have thought that the higher the foul count, the higher the card count, yet that isn't the case with us.

Something just hasn't 'felt' right since the title winning season on our foul numbers, particularly when you look at our direct rivals in that period, united.

[zuricity]

Interesting in light of your comment that we haven't scored a goal from counter attacking play from these stats.

I do feel we are penalised by overly fussy decisions on winning the ball back.

We clearly aren't a dirty team - but you would have thought that the higher the foul count, the higher the card count, yet that isn't the case with us.

Something just hasn't 'felt' right since the title winning season on our foul numbers, particularly when you look at our direct rivals in that period, united.

Did i really write that ? Haven't scored a goal from counter attacking play ?

[Tokyo Blue]

Interesting in light of your comment that we haven't scored a goal from counter attacking play from these stats.

I do feel we are penalised by overly fussy decisions on winning the ball back.

We clearly aren't a dirty team - but you would have thought that the higher the foul count, the higher the card count, yet that isn't the case with us.

Something just hasn't 'felt' right since the title winning season on our foul numbers, particularly when you look at our direct rivals in that period, united.

Did i really write that ? Haven't scored a goal from counter attacking play ?

Silva's goal v Norwich was a counter-attack.

[zuricity]

Silva's goal v Norwich was a counter-attack.

I am not doubting that at all, i'm simply baffled where the reference came from.Perhaps if punctuated differently. I can see that the reference could be open to misinterpretation and it is just a general comment about scoring on the counter attack. Which as you have pointed out , we do.