Richards- fat or muscle?

[Herb]

Look - I do not want to seem like I am on a Micah witch hunt - I really am not - just wanting to share the views on him as posters do on Nasti and others

For me his CITY career has gone in stages along the lines:

1/ bright new thing bursting onto the scene when we were shit - we were delighted to have such a top prospect

2/ Got his big contract before the money game into CITY - and seemed to become the 'big I am' - and did not really develop his potential having 'peaked' when picked for England

3/ Was moved to RB because he did not have the positional sense to be a CB and was in that position when the money came in

4/ Was still No 1 when Zabba came in - but Zabba applied himself as an utter professional would and when he got his chance took it

5/ Micah then could not apply himself or improve his level to win the No 1 spot back - so had to get used to be a No 2 RB and general cover CB

6/ Now seems to feel the need to become important to the club and earn a new contract so when he gets his chance he strives to be the noticeable 'charging RB' - but forgets what the real job is about

7/ - Generally will be a victim of the circumstance that is our rise because he will not develop from this point to be a 1st choice anything - as many others in the CITY ranks will not either - just a hard fact of foot ball life at the top of the PL

IMO if he had have 'arrived' 5 years earlier he would have been a top player at CITY before moving to a 'TOP club'.

Had he been 5 years younger he would have not made his way into our 1st team from the academy - just as many other exciting prospects that will not make it into our 1st team because now the bar is set so much higher.

Just seeing it for what it is - and not being all misty-eyed. At the end of the day he has made a fortune without having to do very much - can retire in his mid-20s. No real need to get weepy for him - only wish him well.

I wish him well - I would be particularly delighted to find that he kicks on and becomes a top top player - but what evidence is there really that could happen?

My gut feeling is that you're presenting a slightly negative perspective but I find it difficult to argue against your blunt summary.

My thought is that I'd love it if Micah could keep his mouth shut and his head down, work hard and improve, establish himself in the side and go on to become one go Europe's top RB's. Unfortunately, the chances are that he'll continue to chum up with wio and his other rag mates, spout off to the press about how effin brilliant he is and how he should be playing every week for a top side because england deserves to have him at his best.

If you're reading this Micah then please look to Zab and take note of how a true professional behaves himself - if you can learn that lesson then you've taken the first step on the road to greatness.

[mcfc1632]

Yes - I understand it sounds negative - but I guess when reality is not positive - it will sound negative. I have certainly tried to be factual/objective - I have nothing against the bloke

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Yes - I understand it sounds negative - but I guess when reality is not positive - it will sound negative. I have certainly tried to be factual/objective - I have nothing against the bloke

Factual and objective, ok so tell me your opinion on his performances over the two seasons I've highlighted? Do you believe he developed his game in them seasons? Do you accept his injuries have hindered him from developing further?

[mcfc1632]

Yes - I understand it sounds negative - but I guess when reality is not positive - it will sound negative. I have certainly tried to be factual/objective - I have nothing against the bloke

Factual and objective, ok so tell me your opinion on his performances over the two seasons I've highlighted? Do you believe he developed his game in them seasons? Do you accept his injuries have hindered him from developing further?

Well I really - do not think that there is a need for me to make effort to do that, but briefly:

I make the point that 'he had the shirt' - until Zabba got his chance and took it with both hands and a good level of professionalism.
Zabba has, I believe, a 'natural limit' to his ability - but he absolutely maximises it.

Since Zabba got in Micah has not got much of a look in. IMO this is through a mixture of a) Injuries, b) Zabba's form and c) Micah's lack of quality / application when given the chance.

During the periods you mention he was 'OK' - nothing special IMO. Consistently during that period I have spent so much time in the stands exasperated by his 'totally lazy-arsed fucking jogging about out of position' - masked by the occasional surge down the wing that had people drooling.

It is certainly my clear memory during that period that the number of goals we scored trough him being in a forward position is dramatically outweighed by the number of goals that we conceded from our RB position because he was AWOL and spectating from 30 yards away - and not even 'half-sprinting' to try and help.

He started those games because he 'had the shirt' - once losing it and Zabba kicked on - it is no surprise to me that he has not been able to regain it.

So to be clear in answering your question - no I absolutely do not think that he developed his game in that period. He had peaked before and seemed to just be at 'cruising altitude'.

and

Re his injuries hindering his further development - well it follows the answer is a clear NO. He had plateaued before and was not developing. The main impact of the injuries on Micah was to give Zabba a chance which he took. Now Micah is not likely to break back in - because (IMO) he will not apply himself like Zabba did.

FWIW I have mentioned that Zabba has IMO a natural ceiling to his level - I used to think that Micah had no such natural limit - but he seems to have created one for himself.

Anyway enough of that backward looking bollocks - you seem to want to create some anti/pro Micah situation - I am just posting my views on the bloke.

What interests me much more is what CITY need at RB in 2013/14 season and onwards, rather than what might have been 'OK' years ago. I respectively suggest it is what should be the focus for all CITY fans - and that is not a player of Micah's level - especially his lack of positional awareness.

Lets me sensible - Micah is no victim - football has been good to him.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Yes - I understand it sounds negative - but I guess when reality is not positive - it will sound negative. I have certainly tried to be factual/objective - I have nothing against the bloke

Factual and objective, ok so tell me your opinion on his performances over the two seasons I've highlighted? Do you believe he developed his game in them seasons? Do you accept his injuries have hindered him from developing further?

Well I really - do not think that there is a need for me to make effort to do that, but briefly:

I make the point that 'he had the shirt' - until Zabba got his chance and took it with both hands and a good level of professionalism.
Zabba has, I believe, a 'natural limit' to his ability - but he absolutely maximises it.

Since Zabba got in Micah has not got much of a look in. IMO this is through a mixture of a) Injuries, b) Zabba's form and c) Micah's lack of quality / application when given the chance.

During the periods you mention he was 'OK' - nothing special IMO. Consistently during that period I have spent so much time in the stands exasperated by his 'totally lazy-arsed fucking jogging about out of position' - masked by the occasional surge down the wing that had people drooling.

It is certainly my clear memory during that period that the number of goals we scored trough him being in a forward position is dramatically outweighed by the number of goals that we conceded from our RB position because he was AWOL and spectating from 30 yards away - and not even 'half-sprinting' to try and help.

He started those games because he 'had the shirt' - once losing it and Zabba kicked on - it is no surprise to me that he has not been able to regain it.

So to be clear in answering your question - no I absolutely do not think that he developed his game in that period. He had peaked before and seemed to just be at 'cruising altitude'.

and

Re his injuries hindering his further development - well it follows the answer is a clear NO. He had plateaued before and was not developing. The main impact of the injuries on Micah was to give Zabba a chance which he took. Now Micah is not likely to break back in - because (IMO) he will not apply himself like Zabba did.

FWIW I have mentioned that Zabba has IMO a natural ceiling to his level - I used to think that Micah had no such natural limit - but he seems to have created one for himself.

Anyway enough of that backward looking bollocks - you seem to want to create some anti/pro Micah situation - I am just posting my views on the bloke.

What interests me much more is what CITY need at RB in 2013/14 season and onwards, rather than what might have been 'OK' years ago. I respectively suggest it is what should be the focus for all CITY fans - and that is not a player of Micah's level - especially his lack of positional awareness.

Lets me sensible - Micah is no victim - football has been good to him.

Give over will you. You are criticising him and I'm defending him against that criticism, I'm not trying to create anything.

Btw we were rock solid on that side in our title winning year, it was our left hand side where we mostly conceded from.

[mcfc1632]

Sorry - did not mean to sound accusing - I just wanted to keep the comment on the right level and not get into 'camps' of opinion - as I have seen on other threads.

And BTW - the comment on left vs. right side - instinctively I think that you may be wrong. But it does not matter anyway as it is totally irrelevant to the point I made which I absolutely stand by.

[mcfc1632]

The evidence is as I've outlined above, his performance levels in that title winning season and the season previous, if you don't want to acknowledge that that's up to you.

I missed this post. TBF - it is not a question of acknowledging it - acknowledgement would require your view to be correct/proven.........

My view that he was not that special that year is just that - my view.

I respect your counter view - but again it is just your view. I could equally say.........."He was so hopelessly out of position so many times and cost us several goals as a direct result, if you don't want to acknowledge that that's up to you....."

But back to the here and now - I have answered your questions - so I have one:

Could you see Micah making the very well timed run that Zabba made for the 3rd goal yesterday?

If so - do you believe that he would have so clearly looked up and analysed the situation, seeing where all the CITY players were?

Again, if so - could you see him playing such a perfectly weighted and accurate pass???

[nottsblue]

I have always been one of Micah's biggest fans, but his size now seems to be a liability. Since he has returned he is nowhere near as good as he was two years ago. Question is has he bulked up too much muscle wise or is he just unfit and carrying too much weight( fat)?

It would appear i'm the only one who thinks Micah could do a job at defensive midfield. The fact he is fast, built like a shithouse and causes a nuisance lends himself to this role. He can tackle too which is a plus. I know he won't be as good as Gazbaz but honestly, does anyone think he would be worse than Garcia.

Zabba is now clearly first choice right back and he isnt getting games at centrehalf so assume management dont fancy him. Time to re-invent himself?

[twosips]

He hasn't got anywhere near the footballing brain to be a DM in my opinion. The physical attributes undoubtedly, but you have to be able to pass really well in that position these days, and he's not sharp enough for that.

[Im_Spartacus]

And in less time than either of your posts you could have easily searched Wikipedia for the information.

I take it you didn't read past the first line of Wikipedia then, because after going to primary school, senior school in Leeds, and playing for Leeds United's youth system at age 8, and representing Leeds schools, anybody who would argue he is 'from' birmingham, either cant fucking read or is just being a sanctimonious prick.

"Richards was born in Birmingham.[4] Richards grew up in the Chapeltown district of Leeds, where he attended Archbishop Cranmer CofE Primary School and later Wetherby High School. Richards played for the Leeds United youth system as a striker, but he was released when he was around eight years old.[3] He also represented Leeds Schools FA (Leeds City Boys) at a young age. He later played for the Oldham Athletic youth system, moving to Manchester City as a 14-year-old,[5] with Oldham reputedly having a 20% sell on clause. In July 2001 Manchester City reportedly tried to buy out the clause, but Oldham refused.[6] He also attended the Brazilian Soccer Schools scheme and retains strong links with the programme, with his father Lincoln actually running a Brazilian Soccer School in Chapeltown, Leeds.[7]

[Slim]

And in less time than either of your posts you could have easily searched Wikipedia for the information.

I take it you didn't read past the first line of Wikipedia then, because after going to primary school, senior school in Leeds, and playing for Leeds United's youth system at age 8, and representing Leeds schools, anybody who would argue he is 'from' birmingham, either cant fucking read or is just being a sanctimonious prick.

"Richards was born in Birmingham.[4] Richards grew up in the Chapeltown district of Leeds, where he attended Archbishop Cranmer CofE Primary School and later Wetherby High School. Richards played for the Leeds United youth system as a striker, but he was released when he was around eight years old.[3] He also represented Leeds Schools FA (Leeds City Boys) at a young age. He later played for the Oldham Athletic youth system, moving to Manchester City as a 14-year-old,[5] with Oldham reputedly having a 20% sell on clause. In July 2001 Manchester City reportedly tried to buy out the clause, but Oldham refused.[6] He also attended the Brazilian Soccer Schools scheme and retains strong links with the programme, with his father Lincoln actually running a Brazilian Soccer School in Chapeltown, Leeds.[7]

Didn't have to look it up, always known he was from Birmingham, it was merely a suggestion for people who think he is from Leeds, or in this case, Oldham.

Of course where he grew up, where he went to school doesn't mean that's where he's from. I grew up and went to school in Australia, but I am still from Manchester.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted,
I don't think it's accurate to say RIchards was a centre back who was turned into a fullback. He was never good enough to be a centre back imo. Had a few good games there under Sven but that was nearly all down to his pace. He would often be caught way out of position and only recover because of his pace, it was very risky. As soon as teams realized this it all went pear shaped for him in that position.

I do however think he can be and has always been a top quality right back. He was exceptional in the title winning season there, better than he's ever played for us. Especially when he went on rampaging runs, he was nightmare for defences.

If he can get a run of games going he can make that position his own again.

Nottsblue- Didn't Micah once play centre mid for us under Hughes in the Uefa Cup maybe? He was absolutely gash iirc. Doesn't have anywhere near the composure or passing ability for that position.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted,
I don't think it's accurate to say RIchards was a centre back who was turned into a fullback. He was never good enough to be a centre back imo. Had a few good games there under Sven but that was nearly all down to his pace. He would often be caught way out of position and only recover because of his pace, it was very risky. As soon as teams realized this it all went pear shaped for him in that position.

I do however think he can be and has always been a top quality right back. He was exceptional in the title winning season there, better than he's ever played for us. Especially when he went on rampaging runs, he was nightmare for defences.

If he can get a run of games going he can make that position his own again.

Nottsblue- Didn't Micah once play centre mid for us under Hughes in the Uefa Cup maybe? He was absolutely gash iirc. Doesn't have anywhere near the composure or passing ability for that position.

Micah was moved to fullback because he can play there & we had other centre backs, not because he was our least useful option at cb. Imo, he should always have been a centre back because he has a lot of attributes which cbs often lack, such as pace & an ability to bring the ball out.

He was a centre back as a kid, that's what he was trained as & that's what got him into the first team squad at a very very young age. He was easily the best anywhere in the country at that age & every club would have signed him. He was absolutely exceptional there when he came into the first team & turned in some fantastic performances against some really top opponents.

So called 'fantastic' young prospects such as Rekik or Nastasic are nowhere near the level Micah was at when he was 17. He wasn't playing in a team with fullbacks like Zabba & Clichy to cover for him, he was playing amongst total donkeys & every game he would have to go out & stop top players, sometimes of the calibre of Alan Shearer. Nastasic would be chewed up & spat out by Shearer.

When Micah played there under Sven, he turned in plenty of great performances, but Sven's team caved in & all the defenders ended up struggling badly. The exact same would happen to Lescott or Nasti if they played in that side, & probably to Vinny too.

All of Sven's best peformances however, involved Micah at cb, & he was starring in those games.

He got injured & big headed whilst playing fullback under Hughes & lost his way. He came back from that under Bob & became the best right back in the country, even becoming a better option than Zabba, but suffered from injuries.

Now he is on his way back from injury again, gaining match fitness again & people are picking holes in him.

If the manager wants him to cover back more, he will do. If the manager tells him to get forward wherever possible, he will do, but he is a big unit, a centre back/sprinter, & he will not find it as easy to get back as someone smaller/lighter so he will need more cover.

[Ajardine]

I have always been one of Micah's biggest fans, but his size now seems to be a liability. Since he has returned he is nowhere near as good as he was two years ago. Question is has he bulked up too much muscle wise or is he just unfit and carrying too much weight( fat)?

It would appear i'm the only one who thinks Micah could do a job at defensive midfield. The fact he is fast, built like a shithouse and causes a nuisance lends himself to this role. He can tackle too which is a plus. I know he won't be as good as Gazbaz but honestly, does anyone think he would be worse than Garcia.

Zabba is now clearly first choice right back and he isnt getting games at centrehalf so assume management dont fancy him. Time to re-invent himself?

Zabba would be better in that role, he's got the brain as well as the physical attributes

[Bridge'srightfoot]

I have always been one of Micah's biggest fans, but his size now seems to be a liability. Since he has returned he is nowhere near as good as he was two years ago. Question is has he bulked up too much muscle wise or is he just unfit and carrying too much weight( fat)?

It would appear i'm the only one who thinks Micah could do a job at defensive midfield. The fact he is fast, built like a shithouse and causes a nuisance lends himself to this role. He can tackle too which is a plus. I know he won't be as good as Gazbaz but honestly, does anyone think he would be worse than Garcia.

Zabba is now clearly first choice right back and he isnt getting games at centrehalf so assume management dont fancy him. Time to re-invent himself?

Zabba would be better in that role, he's got the brain as well as the physical attributes

He would be better in that role than Micah but Zaba could only play there as a stop gap. With the depth of our squad, we shouldn't be playing a right back in midfield.