Name our top three prospects

[Beefymcfc]

Anybody know how many of the youth are making through in the other top European teams? Let's say Rags, Chelsea, Barca, Real, PSG, Milan etc?

All the rags players have come through their youth system. Most of the current squad were born within site of the swamp.

Barca is probably still the exception, but the clubs you name above are all looking for top class players, plus the odd world class one. If you think just in all the English leagues how many players there are good enough to play for one of the top 4 success compared to how many professional players there are, the chance of a top 4 player coming through at a top 4 club is actually quite small. If you remove the players clubs buy at 16 and then make out are from their academies, the percentage will be even lower.

Is Barca still the exception though. I wonder how many of their players came through the ranks in the last 2/4/6 years? From what I see, they still rely on their 'Class of '92' (pun intended) and they now rely on external players like the rest of us.

It'd be nice to be proved wrong, apart from the Rags and their grennhouse of course ;-)

[Blue Since 76]

Is Barca still the exception though. I wonder how many of their players came through the ranks in the last 2/4/6 years? From what I see, they still rely on their 'Class of '92' (pun intended) and they now rely on external players like the rest of us.

It'd be nice to be proved wrong, apart from the Rags and their grennhouse of course ;-)

Their stars are definitely aging and nothing as good is coming through. But the chances of getting a crop of decent players, let alone what they got, coming through at one time must be tiny.

The rags had one lot and since them, it's been pretty patchy (apart from Zidane, obviously). We had some good players come through from the youth cup team in the eighties, but only Lake could have been top class, yet from the most recent one, only Sturridge has really made it.

Complete guess, but I suspect there's only about 20 top class players of any age - ie 20 top class 25 year olds etc. If that's right, that means about 20 kids breaking through every year worldwide. It starts to look like needle in haystack

[nottsblue]

I'd rather have seen the tea lady than Garcia

Brian Kidd would play ahead of Garcia for me

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

It's a funny thing. Our own youth products always get a "youngster" pass 'til about 24. Remember how people were talking about Michael Johnson for example. It's only in past year or so people have stopped calling Micah youngster. This has happened with lot of other players as well.

I'm not completely writing Guidetti off. All I'm saying is that 95% of top footballers were quite close to their best at the age of 22.

Look at Guidetti's stats from his season at Feyenord - he at least had what it took to be a good European player. That he's disappeared for 18 months was down to serious injury, not lack of talent. Whether he can ever be sharp enough to be a top footballer again, who knows.

If Pellegrini doesn't expect to play him this season, we need to send him on loan, in England and preferably to a premier league side - West Ham, Palace, Stoke all look desperate for a striker. If he goes there and looks like Benteke, we'll all be looking forward to having him back. If he can't get past Chamakh to make the first team, then let him go in summer.

I wasn't so much talking about Guidetti but the fact that if at the age of 22 you aren't producing at high level, it's unlikely (not impossible) that you ever will.

When Guidetti was in Feyenoord I watched four or five of their games via streams and I have to say that he didn't look as dominant as stats would indicate. Lot of chances fell his way and I seem to remember he also took lot of penalties. Again, I'm not writing him off and I'm fully aware of his injuries but I felt he looked like he needed lot of development in order to make it with world class team. Oh, and it bothers me little bit that he hasn't been able to break into Sweden squad. I believe that Sweden coaches would be most aware of where he is as a player right now.

[bigblue]

it is nice that the club is spending hundreds of millions on state of the art training grounds, but realistically these youngers are not going to be brought through. in spain barcelona can shove them in the B team and they can develop from there. in england the situation is different, the owners demand results and since we have the money and building rep now, we buy the best we can, which leaves no room for youngsters.

from a fans perspective it is good and bad. you want to see your team do well, but like now some of us are annoyed we can't see some of the young ones either.

Id expect a lage amount of our promising youngsters to feature in NYC. Perfect opportunity to get a worldwide following for City players before they are featured in the 1st team (also a good opportunity to milk some last commercial value out of popular older players or test out risky transfers from unproven prospects).

Similar to Barcalona B, but all done in front of the fastest growing affluent market of football fans.

[Slim]

Not a bad idea, a young talented and hungry team playing in NYC. Moves them away from the limelight into a growing competitive market and the quality doesn't suck as much as people think. It's funny on some of the pitches though, they still have lines from American Football drawn on the pitch, have they never heard of green spraypaint or will they forget where the lines were supposed to go if they have to switch back?

[Twobob]

Blooding the youth through NYC maybe the only real option, would keep them in the 'holistic' plan that the Spaniards dreamt up whilst giving valuable pitch time to develop properly.

Having youth tournaments etc is ok to a level but those alone are not adequate to continue development of talented players to a level required at a top club in order to break through to the first team. Farming them out to other clubs may also back fire.

From our pool of 'youth' only Hart has managed to break through in recent years making best use of the loan to Birmingham combined with an exceptional talent already. He made good use if the opportunity to play first team football, was better than Kasper and Given's injuries opened the door for him. Ultimately though he was a great signing by Pearce!

Other loans haven't gone so well, Guidettes loan, at that stage of his development, would have been more useful if he was playing for a premiership club.

[Slim]

Blooding the youth through NYC maybe the only real option, would keep them in the 'holistic' plan that the Spaniards dreamt up whilst giving valuable pitch time to develop properly.

Having youth tournaments etc is ok to a level but those alone are not adequate to continue development of talented players to a level required at a top club in order to break through to the first team. Farming them out to other clubs may also back fire.

From our pool of 'youth' only Hart has managed to break through in recent years making best use of the loan to Birmingham combined with an exceptional talent already. He made good use if the opportunity to play first team football, was better than Kasper and Given's injuries opened the door for him. Ultimately though he was a great signing by Pearce!

Other loans haven't gone so well, Guidettes loan, at that stage of his development, would have been more useful if he was playing for a premiership club.

Think you'll find Hart was a purchase from Shrewsbury I believe.

[Twobob]

As alluded to by the 'great signing by Pearce' line ;-)

[Avalon]

it is nice that the club is spending hundreds of millions on state of the art training grounds, but realistically these youngers are not going to be brought through. in spain barcelona can shove them in the B team and they can develop from there. in england the situation is different, the owners demand results and since we have the money and building rep now, we buy the best we can, which leaves no room for youngsters.

from a fans perspective it is good and bad. you want to see your team do well, but like now some of us are annoyed we can't see some of the young ones either.

Exactly the problem in the UK. Spain and the Netherlands have it done correctly when it comes to youngsters. They're being trained from an early age for 11 a side, scouts travel the country, including grassroots to look at players to see if they can spot a talent and if they do, they can come to a Primera, or Eredivisie team and train with them at a higher level, further developing their skills.
Players will start making appearances when they're about 16-17 year old, become a backup when they're 18 or so and get substantial experience. If they develop enough and a 1st team player gets injured, he'll be the guy to rely on, if not, a loan spell to hone his skills and when he comes back, he's ready.

Look at the differences between Barcelona and Athletic Bilbao and compare that to Real Madrid.

[Green & Blue]

I plan on keeping an eye on NYFC when things are up and running and it would be really interesting if NYFC could be used as an outlet for our youth players to develop in a more competitive enviroment.

Obviously with the the way the Mls roster is set up we could not just be able to ship them all over.As far as i know each team is allocated 8 international slots within the roster.However clubs are allowed to trade international slots so it is possible for NYFC to attain more slots if needs be.

Lets be honest at present you would need to be a world beater to force your way into the City side.As a result it's going to be difficult to hold on to the more talented players coming through if they can't be given game time.Hopefully the lure of a couple of season stateside will be enough to keep hold of the players who look like having the potential to play for City but are not quite their yet.

[Ted Hughes]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

[Ajardine]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

We can only send a few over there as I'm sure there is a limit of foreign players in the MLS

[Ted Hughes]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

We can only send a few over there as I'm sure there is a limit of foreign players in the MLS

Yeah but when I say a 'whole team' I really meant that it would possibly be frowned upon if we filled all their 'foreign' squad spaces with our kids, & we then whisk back home all the ones who perform.

They are an entity in their own right, so will want to find some of their own 'foreign' players to be stars at their club, not just be a training project for us.

Of course, if they then find a Mexican guy who is the next Messi....

[Twobob]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

Well apart from your initial contribution you've simply echo'd what everyone knows.

I dont see where it has been said that we'll never produce youth talent as we're not in Spain - i do see where the Spanish way of handling this has been praised and potential aspects need to be taken from their system and introduced into our new academy system - i suspect this is underway already as its evident that the old system just isnt producing the goods.

Getting young lads out into top European leagues is a must with the NYFC an added opportunity - with the investment the sheikh is putting into youth development only an arse would think it isn't high on the agenda. As you mentioned the Barca player at Everton i would expect to see our youth players eventually dropping into La Liga, Seire A, bundesliga clubs as well as lower premier league clubs as prep for their step up to the first team.

[Slim]

As alluded to by the 'great signing by Pearce' line ;-)

Never was a "youth" that broke through though. It's like saying AJ and Nastasic were youth than broke through.

I dunno, I don't really give a fuck anymore. This place has become a toilet for the shallow end of the gene pool.

[Twobob]

Never was a "youth" that broke through though. It's like saying AJ and Nastasic were youth than broke through.

I dunno, I don't really give a fuck anymore. This place has become a toilet for the shallow end of the gene pool.

And you're too fucking gormless to see what i was getting at.

[Slim]

Never was a "youth" that broke through though. It's like saying AJ and Nastasic were youth than broke through.

I dunno, I don't really give a fuck anymore. This place has become a toilet for the shallow end of the gene pool.

And you're too fucking gormless to see what i was getting at.

Fair enough.

[Ted Hughes]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

Well apart from your initial contribution you've simply echo'd what everyone knows.

I dont see where it has been said that we'll never produce youth talent as we're not in Spain - i do see where the Spanish way of handling this has been praised and potential aspects need to be taken from their system and introduced into our new academy system - i suspect this is underway already as its evident that the old system just isnt producing the goods.

Getting young lads out into top European leagues is a must with the NYFC an added opportunity - with the investment the sheikh is putting into youth development only an arse would think it isn't high on the agenda. As you mentioned the Barca player at Everton i would expect to see our youth players eventually dropping into La Liga, Seire A, bundesliga clubs as well as lower premier league clubs as prep for their step up to the first team.

If we produce enough players who are good enough, then they will crop up all over the place. It's about being good.

Many of our young players go to lower leagues & can't get a game because they aren't good enough. Even Rekik had to go to Holland because he wasn't good enough for the Championship. He was very young though, so hopefully his time there will mean he is better equipped next year, to either become a squad player for City or continue at a decent level, perhaps at PSV or back here somewhere.

It's also important to get as many of these kids into jobs elsewhere if they are not good enough for us. Then players know that signing for City is a good career move. We have a few now who look like they are about to start careers elsewhere, which is good rep for us. Some of the older members of the current EDS, imo, are good enough to become possibly very good players, but only one or two likely to be good enough for us in the near future if ever. We need to get jobs for them & help them develop, even if it's not for City.

Occasionally, of course, we will get a late developer who becomes a top player & unfortunately, we will rarely benefit from that.

Some of the older or less talked about members of the EDS could easily fall into that catagory. They are no mugs for sure. Just perhaps not quite at the level to play in our squad. But there are younger lads behind some of them who look better prospects & others behind them. A decent number of local lads at the club too, some of which have a chance.

We have decisions to make though, on which players we think are the most likely to come through soon, put our trust in them for the first team squad & the others have to go & play somewhere else, either short term or permanently, so the kids below them come forward.

Won't be that long before the first team squad starts to bring through players from the academy imo. The best ones are perhaps a bit lacking in physique & know how yet, rather than talent.

Different game when you suddenly face up with John Terry etc on a weekend.

[Twobob]

What a disappointing thread.

I was expecting people having a sensible discussion about our best young prospects & instead we get the same clueless, whinging, scaremongering bollocks. I don't know what fucking planet some of you are on. As if we are spending all this money on youth development just for a laugh. I take it some of you ONCE AGAIN failed to take blindest bit of notice when Sheikh Mansour personally stated bringing through players as a priority ?

This has been the main plan since the takeover. It's serious. The sheikh does not want to spend 100 mil a year on filing positions in the team. He wants to spend it on Messi etc, & have us produce the rest. They are not joking or lying about this.

We can't produce ANY players because we are not in Spain ? Really ? The 'holistic' all bullshit because we haven't brought a top player through since Txiki arrived ? Really ? Guidetti should be playing already, even though he has barely kicked a fucking ball for two years & because he isn't, that's it, we aere not serious about him or any other young players ? Really ?

Great deductive intelligent reasoning or unthinking, kneee jerk bollocks ?

The stuff about NYC is worth discussing though. I think it's quite possible we will send a few over there, but we can't send whole teams out there or the locals won't be happy. If our youngsters are good enough though, they will get games at a decent level around europe. Once they have been working with our coaches, they will know how we operate & if they lack games, they will go to other clubs with managers we trust. We have seen only this season how Barca have sent one of their top prospects to Everton because of Martinez for example. We have Rekik at PSG & several of our African players in Norway. We have several at lower league clubs.

The truth is, that many we have been producing from our much heralded old academy, aren't good enough even for lower league teams, that's why we don't see or hear of them. We haven't been getting it right.

That's why it's been taken apart & is being rebuilt from top to bottom.

Well apart from your initial contribution you've simply echo'd what everyone knows.

I dont see where it has been said that we'll never produce youth talent as we're not in Spain - i do see where the Spanish way of handling this has been praised and potential aspects need to be taken from their system and introduced into our new academy system - i suspect this is underway already as its evident that the old system just isnt producing the goods.

Getting young lads out into top European leagues is a must with the NYFC an added opportunity - with the investment the sheikh is putting into youth development only an arse would think it isn't high on the agenda. As you mentioned the Barca player at Everton i would expect to see our youth players eventually dropping into La Liga, Seire A, bundesliga clubs as well as lower premier league clubs as prep for their step up to the first team.

If we produce enough players who are good enough, then they will crop up all over the place. It's about being good.

Many of our young players go to lower leagues & can't get a game because they aren't good enough. Even Rekik had to go to Holland because he wasn't good enough for the Championship. He was very young though, so hopefully his time there will mean he is better equipped next year, to either become a squad player for City or continue at a decent level, perhaps at PSV or back here somewhere.

It's also important to get as many of these kids into jobs elsewhere if they are not good enough for us. Then players know that signing for City is a good career move. We have a few now who look like they are about to start careers elsewhere, which is good rep for us. Some of the older members of the current EDS, imo, are good enough to become possibly very good players, but only one or two likely to be good enough for us in the near future if ever. We need to get jobs for them & help them develop, even if it's not for City.

Occasionally, of course, we will get a late developer who becomes a top player & unfortunately, we will rarely benefit from that.

Some of the older or less talked about members of the EDS could easily fall into that catagory. They are no mugs for sure. Just perhaps not quite at the level to play in our squad. But there are younger lads behind some of them who look better prospects & others behind them. A decent number of local lads at the club too, some of which have a chance.

We have decisions to make though, on which players we think are the most likely to come through soon, put our trust in them for the first team squad & the others have to go & play somewhere else, either short term or permanently, so the kids below them come forward.

Won't be that long before the first team squad starts to bring through players from the academy imo. The best ones are perhaps a bit lacking in physique & know how yet, rather than talent.

Different game when you suddenly face up with John Terry etc on a weekend.

Can't argue with any of that really, the end line pretty much sums the challenge up in a nutshell, it's all nice for the club to be doing well in youth cups and youth leagues when they're playing against players of similar ages, skills and physiques. There comes a point when that isn't enough for the individual players, the 'special ones' need to put their wits, talent and strength against seasoned pro's in leagues similar to those they will be playing in, they will get scars and will struggle but the best will learn and use that to better themselves. Other clubs aren't mugs and won't just take on our aspiring talent just to help us out, as you mentioned only those good enough will get into clubs at a decent level and then once they do that, if they prove themselves then we also need to capture that and not tarnish it. To get there we need to cut some dead wood, which isn't easy ( you're bound to get the odd one or two who use that as inspiration to improve elsewhere).

Again looking at Everton and Martinez, Lukaku has already been rumoured to be looking at staying at Everton as he feels he's been shut out from his parent club. A real talent, still raw but Chelsea once again showing how NOT to do things?