The Run In.

[Wonderwall]

I agree - and Allardyce is the type of manager you would want to be setting a team up to make it difficult for them.

I just think that we should be focussing on the old fashioned thing of 1 game at a time. FFS we have to go to Palace and Everton which I think will also be very tough games - full attention needed.

If we can win all the other games a draw will do at the redscouse - if we drop points at the weekend we might need to win.

I think Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Joe Cole will all have a point to prove! Hopefully.

[Goataldo]

Soz if this has been mentioned, but what worries me most is Scudamore saying that ManUre not doing so well could 'damage the brand of the Premier League' around the globe. Who is prime candidate for keeping that brand at the forefront of the market? Liverpool. We're nowhere near them yet in terms of fanbase (although obviously making strides) - I suspect we will see some very contentious refereeing decisions going in their favour, and not just in games they're playing in. In fact if you look at the way our key players are getting booked, it could be argued it's already happening.

[Original Dub]

Soz if this has been mentioned, but what worries me most is Scudamore saying that ManUre not doing so well could 'damage the brand of the Premier League' around the globe. Who is prime candidate for keeping that brand at the forefront of the market? Liverpool. We're nowhere near them yet in terms of fanbase (although obviously making strides) - I suspect we will see some very contentious refereeing decisions going in their favour, and not just in games they're playing in. In fact if you look at the way our key players are getting booked, it could be argued it's already happening.

That is what worry about most as well mate.

I have seen how close bad refereeing decisions can shorten a large points gap in our title winning season and I'll never forget how scary that actually was. It's one thing to lose to the better team, but if we lose to brand promotion, a large part of my love for football will die.

[bayblue]

Soz if this has been mentioned, but what worries me most is Scudamore saying that ManUre not doing so well could 'damage the brand of the Premier League' around the globe. Who is prime candidate for keeping that brand at the forefront of the market? Liverpool. We're nowhere near them yet in terms of fanbase (although obviously making strides) - I suspect we will see some very contentious refereeing decisions going in their favour, and not just in games they're playing in. In fact if you look at the way our key players are getting booked, it could be argued it's already happening.

Do you really think that refs will deliberately give decisions to increase Liverpool's chances of winning the league, both in games involving them and not??

If so then you're accusing the Premier League, and many of its officials, of major fraud.

A season is played over 38 games. Over the course of that all teams get the rough and the smooth. There's a huge difference between this and deliberate fraud.

The way I see it is that whoever ends up top after 38 games deserves to win the league. I really hope it's us but if it is Liverpool then I hope City fans have the class to admit they deserve it.

[Sparklehorse]

Do you really think that refs will deliberately give decisions to increase Liverpool's chances of winning the league, both in games involving them and not?? If so then you're accusing the Premier League, and many of its officials, of major fraud. A season is played over 38 games. Over the course of that all teams get the rough and the smooth. There's a huge difference between this and deliberate fraud. The way I see it is that whoever ends up top after 38 games deserves to win the league. I really hope it's us but if it is Liverpool then I hope City fans have the class to admit they deserve it.

Hear hear

[Ted Hughes]

Soz if this has been mentioned, but what worries me most is Scudamore saying that ManUre not doing so well could 'damage the brand of the Premier League' around the globe. Who is prime candidate for keeping that brand at the forefront of the market? Liverpool. We're nowhere near them yet in terms of fanbase (although obviously making strides) - I suspect we will see some very contentious refereeing decisions going in their favour, and not just in games they're playing in. In fact if you look at the way our key players are getting booked, it could be argued it's already happening.

Do you really think that refs will deliberately give decisions to increase Liverpool's chances of winning the league, both in games involving them and not??

If so then you're accusing the Premier League, and many of its officials, of major fraud.

A season is played over 38 games. Over the course of that all teams get the rough and the smooth. There's a huge difference between this and deliberate fraud.

The way I see it is that whoever ends up top after 38 games deserves to win the league. I really hope it's us but if it is Liverpool then I hope City fans have the class to admit they deserve it.

Remember the furore about an offside incorrectly given v Liverpool ? A goal disallowed v Newcastle & a pen given v Spurs ?

Remember the three of them whinging to the media; Wenger, Mourinho Rodgers ?

How many dodgy pens, or players sent off v City have we had since ? Almost all of the big contentious decisions since then, have gone against us, right or wrong.

Meanwhile, Liverpool have had almost every big decision go in their favour, again, rightly or wrongly. No other team would get 3 pens at the swamp, even if Vidic mowed down the oppo with a fucking sub-machine gun.

No side has ever had the refs in their pocket like Liverpool did back in the day, not even Ferguson's Utd.

[nottsblue]

Do you really think that refs will deliberately give decisions to increase Liverpool's chances of winning the league, both in games involving them and not??

If so then you're accusing the Premier League, and many of its officials, of major fraud.

A season is played over 38 games. Over the course of that all teams get the rough and the smooth. There's a huge difference between this and deliberate fraud.

The way I see it is that whoever ends up top after 38 games deserves to win the league. I really hope it's us but if it is Liverpool then I hope City fans have the class to admit they deserve it.

Remember the furore about an offside incorrectly given v Liverpool ? A goal disallowed v Newcastle & a pen given v Spurs ?

Remember the three of them whinging to the media; Wenger, Mourinho Rodgers ?

How many dodgy pens, or players sent off v City have we had since ? Almost all of the big contentious decisions since then, have gone against us, right or wrong.

Meanwhile, Liverpool have had almost every big decision go in their favour, again, rightly or wrongly. No other team would get 3 pens at the swamp, even if Vidic mowed down the oppo with a fucking sub-machine gun.

No side has ever had the refs in their pocket like Liverpool did back in the day, not even Ferguson's Utd.

Bayblue. Got to say i think you sre being a tad naive. Of course refs some teams over others. Namely the sides that are at the top. Thats why refs favour them so they get to officiate in the plum games. The comment by Scudamore was ill advised but there will be an awful lot of truth in it.

Ted. Agree with yourself here. We have had very few decisions go for us lately. The swamp game a case in point. Back in the day if you rocked up to a city v dippers game and Courtney was the ref, you may as well have gone home. Bent as fuck

[bayblue]

Remember the furore about an offside incorrectly given v Liverpool ? A goal disallowed v Newcastle & a pen given v Spurs ? Remember the three of them whinging to the media; Wenger, Mourinho Rodgers ? How many dodgy pens, or players sent off v City have we had since ? Almost all of the big contentious decisions since then, have gone against us, right or wrong. Meanwhile, Liverpool have had almost every big decision go in their favour, again, rightly or wrongly. No other team would get 3 pens at the swamp, even if Vidic mowed down the oppo with a fucking sub-machine gun. No side has ever had the refs in their pocket like Liverpool did back in the day, not even Ferguson's Utd.

... Not too sure exactly what your point is though Ted? It's surely not that the PL and refs are cheating deliberately against us.
And your examples point to what I said. The Sterling goal against us should have stood, so in that game and that decision we got the benefit of the doubt and it probably meant we got three points.

[bayblue]

Bayblue. Got to say i think you sre being a tad naive. Of course refs some teams over others. Namely the sides that are at the top. Thats why refs favour them so they get to officiate in the plum games. The comment by Scudamore was ill advised but there will be an awful lot of truth in it. Ted. Agree with yourself here. We have had very few decisions go for us lately. The swamp game a case in point. Back in the day if you rocked up to a city v dippers game and Courtney was the ref, you may as well have gone home. Bent as fuck

... And over a season these things balance out. We have had plenty of decisions go our way.
I don't think there's a team in the land whose fans don't think the media are against them, or that the authorities have it in for them.
If I am naive it's in the assertion that I don't think the PL and refs are deliberately and systematically biased against us.

[Original Dub]

... And over a season these things balance out. We have had plenty of decisions go our way.
I don't think there's a team in the land whose fans don't think the media are against them, or that the authorities have it in for them.
If I am naive it's in the assertion that I don't think the PL and refs are deliberately and systematically biased against us.

That famous cliché is something that was said more by bacon face than anyone else. That tells you a lot.

It doesn't happen every season, but it happens in some. None more so than our title winning season. If refereeing decisions had been bang on involving both teams, we would have finished somewhere between 12 and 16 points ahead.

I don't know the reason for it, other than looking after the brand. Through influence. Humans inflencing other humans. Crazy I know, but that's how it is.

If you honestly believe baconface and the scum did not have a massive influence on the media and in turn the officials, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

But I'm amazed.

[bayblue]

That famous cliché is something that was said more by bacon face than anyone else. That tells you a lot. It doesn't happen every season, but it happens in some. None more so than our title winning season. If refereeing decisions had been bang on involving both teams, we would have finished somewhere between 12 and 16 points ahead. I don't know the reason for it, other than looking after the brand. Through influence. Humans inflencing other humans. Crazy I know, but that's how it is. If you honestly believe baconface and the scum did not have a massive influence on the media and in turn the officials, then we will just have to agree to disagree. But I'm amazed.

Amazed at what?
My point (back in the mists of time I grant you) is that there is no evidence of deliberate bias against us by a whole squad of referees, this being the implication of a previous poster's comments.

I'm not sure if you are saying the same but you appear to be saying that we would have been 12 to 16 points ahead of the crowd in 2012 if referees had not acted to "protect the brand". Do you say this was a series of deliberate actions taken by a range of different referees or are you arguing it was a more unconscious type of favouritism?

[The Maine Man]

I like to think that the whole business of football is above board and impartial. I see decisions that go against us and in favour of others, I sometimes think that is bias but I also think it must be me seeing it through my blue tinted spectacles. I think supporters of any team must be the same. One thing football fans are not is impartial.

BUT, in these days of huge amounts of money in football and the low moral standards generally displayed by those with money and/or power, I find it hard to believe that there isn't a commercial agenda behind the whole set up. If so, it would be like the Lance Armstrong scandal and the sport will be rotten to the core. I really hope not.

[mcfc1632]

I think that the 'bias' of refs is easy to understand - and quite clear. It does not mean that there is an active and carefully controlled conspiracy - but it does mean that some clubs (mainly one) are the clear beneficiaries of an unhealthy number of decisions given through a desire to avoid the ire of key individuals.

Refs - like people in most other walks of life - are keen to develop their careers. To develop your career as a referee you have to officiate the key games and get positive reports. Baconface has ensured that the scum have been the stand out beneficiary of pressure put on refs - there is a catalogue of refs that have overseen games where the scum draw or lose then not refereeing another scum game for a long time as punishment only then - almost in every case - to give clear (but incredible) decisions in favour of the scum.

Mike Jones comes to mind - after serving his sentence he was offered the chance of rehabilitation and refereed the scum - 1 - 0 against Wigan - you guessed it a penalty following a Welbeck impersonation of Ashley Young! His reward was to be given the Scum Vs Stoke match - securing a further positive report from baconface - surprise surprise - it was 2 - 0 - both goals from penalties that were not penalties.

Michael Oliver (same year I think) once given the chance to get back into baconface's good books following penance refereed the Fulham game at the swamp - 1 - 0 - but with most obvious penalty you will ever see not being awarded to Fulham in the dying minutes. You could see the fella's face drain when the Fulham player was hacked down.

And there are many others. Highlight of Howard Webbs career - as it would be any ref's career - was to officiate the World Cup final - why was he there ? because he was reputed to be the best English referee - why?? because he was allowed to referee the biggest games - which meant the scum - and got favourable reports. There are 38 teams in the premiership - a 5th of the penalties that he has awarded have been for the scum - go figure. Interestingly the last couple of years he has been less obviously biased - perhaps because he has already reached the top.

So it is simple really - refs are human beings - they want the big gigs - if the criticism of key individuals will stop that lets not be surprised if they seek not to attract such criticism.

That twat at Chelski is trying the same approach - I wonder how long before Foy refs another Chelski game?

[nottsblue]

I think that the 'bias' of refs is easy to understand - and quite clear. It does not mean that there is an active and carefully controlled conspiracy - but it does mean that some clubs (mainly one) are the clear beneficiaries of an unhealthy number of decisions given through a desire to avoid the ire of key individuals.

Refs - like people in most other walks of life - are keen to develop their careers. To develop your career as a referee you have to officiate the key games and get positive reports. Baconface has ensured that the scum have been the stand out beneficiary of pressure put on refs - there is a catalogue of refs that have overseen games where the scum draw or lose then not refereeing another scum game for a long time as punishment only then - almost in every case - to give clear (but incredible) decisions in favour of the scum.

Mike Jones comes to mind - after serving his sentence he was offered the chance of rehabilitation and refereed the scum - 1 - 0 against Wigan - you guessed it a penalty following a Welbeck impersonation of Ashley Young! His reward was to be given the Scum Vs Stoke match - securing a further positive report from baconface - surprise surprise - it was 2 - 0 - both goals from penalties that were not penalties.

Michael Oliver (same year I think) once given the chance to get back into baconface's good books following penance refereed the Fulham game at the swamp - 1 - 0 - but with most obvious penalty you will ever see not being awarded to Fulham in the dying minutes. You could see the fella's face drain when the Fulham player was hacked down.

And there are many others. Highlight of Howard Webbs career - as it would be any ref's career - was to officiate the World Cup final - why was he there ? because he was reputed to be the best English referee - why?? because he was allowed to referee the biggest games - which meant the scum - and got favourable reports. There are 38 teams in the premiership - a 5th of the penalties that he has awarded have been for the scum - go figure. Interestingly the last couple of years he has been less obviously biased - perhaps because he has already reached the top.

So it is simple really - refs are human beings - they want the big gigs - if the criticism of key individuals will stop that lets not be surprised if they seek not to attract such criticism.

That twat at Chelski is trying the same approach - I wonder how long before Foy refs another Chelski game?

Bang on the money

[Clowncrete]

Remember the furore about an offside incorrectly given v Liverpool ? A goal disallowed v Newcastle & a pen given v Spurs ? Remember the three of them whinging to the media; Wenger, Mourinho Rodgers ? How many dodgy pens, or players sent off v City have we had since ? Almost all of the big contentious decisions since then, have gone against us, right or wrong. Meanwhile, Liverpool have had almost every big decision go in their favour, again, rightly or wrongly. No other team would get 3 pens at the swamp, even if Vidic mowed down the oppo with a fucking sub-machine gun. No side has ever had the refs in their pocket like Liverpool did back in the day, not even Ferguson's Utd.

... Not too sure exactly what your point is though Ted? It's surely not that the PL and refs are cheating deliberately against us.
And your examples point to what I said. The Sterling goal against us should have stood, so in that game and that decision we got the benefit of the doubt and it probably meant we got three points.

It wasn't a goal.

And what about Shirtl constantly getting away with shirt-pulling?

[Goataldo]

Bayblue, with all due respect, if you think all our refs are a stand up bunch of guys, honest to the core, and corruption free, then you have a-hole lot of sand up your arse, and your head is in that sand. I just hope that our squad is good enough to stand ALL the challenges it faces, and whether or not some are too naïve to realise or appreciate that, well great. I hope it never rains in fluffy bunny land or your gingerbread roof will cave in on your head, mate. La la la, lalala...

[bayblue]

Bayblue, with all due respect, if you think all our refs are a stand up bunch of guys, honest to the core, and corruption free, then you have a-hole lot of sand up your arse, and your head is in that sand. I just hope that our squad is good enough to stand ALL the challenges it faces, and whether or not some are too naïve to realise or appreciate that, well great. I hope it never rains in fluffy bunny land or your gingerbread roof will cave in on your head, mate. La la la, lalala...

Thanks for the personal insults.

As it happens I don't think our refs are corrupt and you haven't provided one shred of evidence that they are.

Maybe instead of just resorting to insults you could apply yourself to bringing these corrupt people to justice.

[Goataldo]

Bayblue, with all due respect, if you think all our refs are a stand up bunch of guys, honest to the core, and corruption free, then you have a-hole lot of sand up your arse, and your head is in that sand. I just hope that our squad is good enough to stand ALL the challenges it faces, and whether or not some are too naïve to realise or appreciate that, well great. I hope it never rains in fluffy bunny land or your gingerbread roof will cave in on your head, mate. La la la, lalala...

[Original Dub]

Thanks for the personal insults.

As it happens I don't think our refs are corrupt and you haven't provided one shred of evidence that they are.

Maybe instead of just resorting to insults you could apply yourself to bringing these corrupt people to justice.

You want proof that refs are corrupt? If we had proof, we'd have handed it over.

And if you paid attention, you'd see that I said officials are INFLUENCED by the media and such like. It is a propaganda machine for the premier league brand boys.

Stop being pedantic with your "let's bring these people to justice" bullshit... for our good.

And stop being completely naive... for your own good.

[aaron bond]

Bayblue, with all due respect, if you think all our refs are a stand up bunch of guys, honest to the core, and corruption free, then you have a-hole lot of sand up your arse, and your head is in that sand. I just hope that our squad is good enough to stand ALL the challenges it faces, and whether or not some are too naïve to realise or appreciate that, well great. I hope it never rains in fluffy bunny land or your gingerbread roof will cave in on your head, mate. La la la, lalala...

Thanks for the personal insults.

As it happens I don't think our refs are corrupt and you haven't provided one shred of evidence that they are.

Maybe instead of just resorting to insults you could apply yourself to bringing these corrupt people to justice.

I don't think refs in England are 100% above being influenced by the media, managers, television stations etc. but I don't think we're specifically targeted like some people seem to believe.

Not every decision has gone our way this season, but we've had some decisions go our way too, such as the offside in the Liverpool game which could have led to a goal, or Newcastle's disallowed goal.

There are fans of EVERY team who believe their team is victimised and targeted by the FA, refs, media etc. A lot of fans of other clubs genuinely believe that City are favoured over other teams. Of course I don't agree with them, but they do think that.

I personally believe we should be a few points ahead of where we are, and that's not because the referees or FA have held us back. The main reasons, in my opinion, are Pellegrini's naivety at the start of the season and his continued selection of Demichelis. There have been other individual performances of certain players in certain games which have been a factor, but we're not facing a tough run-in (having to go away to Liverpool and Everton and getting a good result) because of anyone else but ourselves.