Greg Dyke's World Cup Commission

[Ted Hughes]

Will announce its findings at 2pm. His plan to get England to win the World Cup in 2022. This does not apparently involve declaring war on Germany or Spain.

Also, apparently the Prem asked him to do the announcement next week, so as not to interfere with the climax of the Prem season, but ex Utd director, Utd supporter Dyke, decided to do it now instead.

Anyhow, there are a bunch of proposals, including the idea of a 'B' league lower down the leagues, which teams would be full of 'homegrown' players.

They just asked Arsene Wenger about it & he seemed to have a totally different view, but we'll see.

I expect the proposals to include a load of stuff which interferes with the running of our academy & an attempt to stop the possibility of a young version of Yaya Toure coming over from Africa or similar.

Here are the experts recruited for the commission:

Greg Dyke, former BBC director, backgound in light entertainment & Manchester Utd.
Roger Burden, vice-chairman of The FA & something to do with building societies, plus lead singer in 'The Animals' ( oh sorry wrong bloke)
Howard Wilkinson, the bloke who sold Can***a to Man Utd, in a totally above board way. Professional Yorkshireman.
Dario Gradi, bloke who brought through two or three decent players in 40 years of trying & gets treated like a god because of it.
Ritchie Humphreys, PFA chairman & vested interest advisor.
Greg Clarke, Chairman of the Football League: suit.
Glen Hoddle: Out of work former failed England manager & religious nutcase.
Rio Ferdinand: Red cunt.

And...Danny Mills.

[Hutch's Shoulder]

From BBC:

The FA Commission has made four key recommendations to help improve England's long-term fortunes.
1. Premier League B teams - possibly within a new League Three.
2. Strategic loan partnerships between Premier League, Championship and lower league teams.
3. Reduction in non-home-grown players in a Premier League squad from 17 to 12, over five years.
4. No non-EU visas issued to players for clubs outside the Premier League.

[Ted Hughes]

The B team idea is a great one, apart from it won't be allowed to compete in the football league & can't work in our system.

If however, you made a proper 'B' team league, above the U21 league, & allowed a percentage of older players, including some overseas players, to play in it, then Devante Cole for example, may find himself playing v Kolo Toure & Daniel Agger one week, & David Luiz the next, instead of playing next to kids every week.

The academy system (partly invented by Howard Wilkinson who is on the commission now) has been an absolute fucking disaster. We used to produce better young players in this country, before it was invented, even though much of the coaching was shit. Kids would play with & against top pros & learn from it. Now they have to go on loan to play with & against 2nd rate older players instead of playing with & against top players in the reserves.

Managers have never seen them in a competitive game v top players, so how can they trust them ?

Watch next how the point about limiting PL squads to having more players like Danny Mills & less like Yaya Toure or David Silva, becomes the main point of this exercise in the future.

[Hazy2]

What is wrong with reserve leagues for each division, older players playing with younger players. Not rocket science, Fuck me I coached open age it was fine, you put any age group together without the older head nothing gets done without a hissy fit and every fucker learns nothing. You then expose them to 1st team and you see the player gasping for air. Top players dipping in when injured or dropped is good for the younger player, and will teach them far quicker than playing against the same age group same ability, same strength, older players will change that and develop better players faster.

[Ted Hughes]

What is wrong with reserve leagues for each division, older players playing with younger players. Not rocket science, Fuck me I coached open age it was fine, you put any age group together without the older head nothing gets done without a hissy fit and every fucker learns nothing. You then expose them to 1st team and you see the player gasping for air. Top players dipping in when injured or dropped is good for the younger player, and will teach them far quicker than playing against the same age group same ability, same strength, older players will change that and develop better players faster.

I remember when Bell was trying to get match fit after his injury, he played in the Central League & had the whole team playing like a machine in no time, even though he could barely run.

I can't remember which players were in that team, but I don't think so many were great prospects. But the improvement in the overall standard was huge. Won the League if I remember rightly.

I bet if someone like him played next to some of our prospects now, it would make the careers of one or two.

[Hazy2]

What is wrong with reserve leagues for each division, older players playing with younger players. Not rocket science, Fuck me I coached open age it was fine, you put any age group together without the older head nothing gets done without a hissy fit and every fucker learns nothing. You then expose them to 1st team and you see the player gasping for air. Top players dipping in when injured or dropped is good for the younger player, and will teach them far quicker than playing against the same age group same ability, same strength, older players will change that and develop better players faster.

I remember when Bell was trying to get match fit after his injury, he played in the Central League & had the whole team playing like a machine in no time, even though he could barely run.

I can't remember which players were in that team, but I don't think so many were great prospects. But the improvement in the overall standard was huge. Won the League if I remember rightly.

I bet if someone like him played next to some of our prospects now, it would make the careers of one or two.

I look at players with certain bad habits that could have been nailed by a seasoned pro, ripping the young player a new one. Milner for one, Micah at our own club, would be match fit and ready for his chance if it ever came. that lad has needed games. Very sad to the athlete in him overtake over the player. Far better than Jones was and will ever be if he had a touch of luck with injuries and more on the ball than muscles.

[Ted Hughes]

What is wrong with reserve leagues for each division, older players playing with younger players. Not rocket science, Fuck me I coached open age it was fine, you put any age group together without the older head nothing gets done without a hissy fit and every fucker learns nothing. You then expose them to 1st team and you see the player gasping for air. Top players dipping in when injured or dropped is good for the younger player, and will teach them far quicker than playing against the same age group same ability, same strength, older players will change that and develop better players faster.

I remember when Bell was trying to get match fit after his injury, he played in the Central League & had the whole team playing like a machine in no time, even though he could barely run.

I can't remember which players were in that team, but I don't think so many were great prospects. But the improvement in the overall standard was huge. Won the League if I remember rightly.

I bet if someone like him played next to some of our prospects now, it would make the careers of one or two.

I look at players with certain bad habits that could have been nailed by a seasoned pro, ripping the young player a new one. Milner for one, Micah at our own club, would be match fit and ready for his chance if it ever came. that lad has needed games. Very sad to the athlete in him overtake over the player. Far better than Jones was and will ever be if he had a touch of luck with injuries and more on the ball than muscles.

I agree.

None of our players from the academy era have arrived at the first team squad level without serious flaws in their game & a lack of understanding or attitude for first team football.

I expect that to be better now that we have a more solid coaching method throughout the club, but there's still a load of stuff those kids would learn from Vieira if they saw him sort out the oppo midfield alongside them in a competitive game, that he can't teach them so easily on a board.

[Hutch's Shoulder]

The FA proposal only seems to tackle half the problem. It aims at increasing the quantity of top flight English players (actually it's not clear if it is English or British), but does not address their quality. If it works we are likely to end up with more players available for selection with the same fault of favouring athleticism over technique. In what I have seen so far, admittedly only a summary, there is nothing to improve the quality of coaching from an early age.

[Hazy2]

Boyata and Micah, are good players they both have weakness that a player like Barry for example could guide, for me Gazbaz should be kept and mentoring our next gen.

[Breks]

The FA proposal only seems to tackle half the problem. It aims at increasing the quantity of top flight English players (actually it's not clear if it is English or British), but does not address their quality. If it works we are likely to end up with more players available for selection with the same fault of favouring athleticism over technique. In what I have seen so far, admittedly only a summary, there is nothing to improve the quality of coaching from an early age.

It's English, it's the English f.a who have come up with the plan.

[Hutch's Shoulder]

Indeed it is the English FA, but I suspect the definition of home grown will still have to include other British and indeed EU nationals (like Clichy).

[MilnersJaw]

What is the point of a b team if it competes against Sunday league pub players.

[Ted Hughes]

What is the point of a b team if it competes against Sunday league pub players.

The cunning plan is: promotion.

If the B team is good enough, it gets promoted & can go as high as League One.

Of course then if a bunch of them were good enough, they would all end up in League one, so all of the clubs who regularly spend time in League one, are going to tell Dyke to go fuck himself. As well as all of those who feel threatened in League two.

Presumably, they have some really nasty trick or bribe up their sleeve to make the clubs swallow this, otherwise there is no fucking hope in hell that the clubs will wear it & they know it's just a joke to start with. There is mention of money in a 'loan' system. That could be it.

But the bit about restricting clubs in the Prem to only 12 non home grown players, now that little item will keep coming back.

When they asked Wenger, he immediately said that the problem is quality & that the young kids spend too much time in competitive football & not enough hours being coached. That is echoed by many others. Can't see any talk of addressing that.

If that is not addressed, all it will mean is that loads of mediocre, lazy arsed, big headed fucking oiks, like Jermaine Pennant & everyone from Spurs, get paid loads of money to swan around the Prem, simply because they are 'home grown' & therefore essential to make up the squads. It will not help the England team one jot.

What is needed is quality not quantity. Whatever they do, we will produce quality anyway.


Henry Winter's piece on the subject.


Greg Dyke, the FA chairman, has set a target of increasing the number of English players playing regularly in the Premier League from 66 to 90 by 2022. To achieve that aim, Dyke has controversially drawn up proposals in his England Commission report released today that will totally change the structure of English football.

Dyke has proposed SLPs, Strategic Loan Partnerships, a new system which would effectively lead to feeder clubs by allowing wealthy clubs to place eight players in two clubs in League One or Two. The lower-league clubs would have the bitter pill sugar-coated by financial recompense from the Premier League and FA. Dyke also wants B teams in a new League 3 between League 2 and the Conference, a move that will change the historic structure of the 92-strong professional league and affect its sporting integrity.

More constructively, Dyke has backed the greater use of 3G pitches and campaigned for no non-EU players to be allowed work permits for the Football League. What Dyke calls "bold measures" will, he believes, "have a very good chance of reversing the decline in the English game for English players". He added: "The tanker that is English football needs turning if we are to reverse the trend".

Dyke said there were four major issues inhibiting the development "of elite English players". He found "there are inadequate and insufficient competitive playing opportunities for 18-21 year old elite players at top clubs in England" and the "regulation of the English player market is not effective in preserving desired balance of British, EU and non-EU players in clubs".

Dyke established that "coaching and coach development, in clubs and at grassroots, have not yet reached a satisfactory level and impact" and "England lags behind in the quantity and quality of affordable grassroots facilities. This is particularly true in the area of all-weather pitches". The FA is already on record as saying that Wembley may become 3G. Dyke has commissioned "further work on coaching and grassroots" which will report back in the autumn with solutions on how to "tackle the grave issues identified in these areas".


Dyke has the support of influential people within the game who have read the Commission’s proposals and back them fully, people like Ian Ayre at Liverpool, Ed Woodward at Manchester United as well as officials at Manchester City, Spurs and Stoke. Roy Hodgson, who was one of the Commission’s members, backed "the findings and recommendations".

Dyke consulted 650 people and was advised on the Commission by Hodgson, Rio Ferdinand, Glenn Hoddle, Danny Mills, Howard Wilkinson, Ritchie Humphreys, Greg Clarke, Dario Gradi and Roger Burden.

The Commission attacked the number of foreigners in Premier League squads. "We propose the maximum number of non-Home Grown Players allowed in a Premier League squad should be reduced over five years from 17 to 12".

The B team plan will encounter inevitable resistance. "Across most of Europe, B teams provide the crucial first stage of an effective bridge between the academy and the first team," argued Dyke. He claimed that "many of the top clubs" would like to have B teams playing in the "lower divisions of the Football League but under their direct control and supervision".

The Commission proposed "the creation of a new League Three in the Football League" but B teams, containing an average of 15 English players, "would not be able to rise above League One or play in the FA Cup". The idea is for young English players to get competitive action, toughening the players up, but there is an issue of whether the quality of football would be good enough to accentuate their development.

The Commission also proposes the establishment of a Strategic Loan Partnership (SLP) between clubs to run alongside existing loan arrangements. Under SLP regulations, the lending club would have more say on how much the loanee played.

The 15 lower league clubs estimated to take on SLPs, and who will have their identities tempered, will be given money. "We believe a transfer of funding from the top clubs to those in the lower leagues would be appropriate as a counter-balance for the radical change proposed to their structure," said Dyke.

Football League clubs will fear that SLP is feeder clubs by other name. Premier League and Championship clubs can loan up to eight players to two clubs in League One or Two "although only five could be on the team sheet at any one time".

Not before time, the FA has tackled the work visa system GBE (Governing Body Endorsement). "122 non-EU players have entered England under the GBE scheme since 2009," said Dyke. "Nearly 50 per cent didn’t meet the current criteria and came through an appeal process in which 79 per cent of appellants have been successful". Almost a fifth went into the Football League so were clearly not "highest level".

Dyke added: "Remarkably, only 58 per cent given work visas to play in the Premier League play any football in that league in the second season after their arrival". Many of those interviewed by the Commission "argued strongly to us that too many mediocre players are getting work visas".

One particularly radical measure is for "no players coming in on non-EU visas should be allowed to join clubs in any league in England other than the Premier League," according to Dyke. "Furthermore, no players on overseas visas should be allowed to be loaned to other clubs in England even if they are in the Premier League."

"Our proposal to tighten the entry and appeals criteria for non-EU player immigration will create a necessary constraint that will encourage more considered and valuable player acquisitions from outside the EU."

[Lev Bronstein]

1) Despite all the corporate bollox, football is still a sport, and as such success ultimately depends on ability. Why should a talented player from one country be disadvantaged against a poorer player from a different one.

2) If you want to produce better players give them better coaching. Their are too few decent coaches in this country especially at the grass roots level.

3) If the problem is lack of playing opportunities for 18 - 23 year olds then create a meaningful reserve competition that clubs will take seriously. The idea that young players will learn from battling it out with gnarled veterans at Hartlepool or wherever is silly: it might make them tougher, but that's different. Plus, have you seen the state of some of the pitches lower down the leagues? Ok for planting spuds but not for football.

4) Dyke is saying that only 32% of Prem players are qualified to play for England. Well at 25 players per squad that makes about 160 players playing in the top division. A bigger pool that most countries have to chose from.

5) The reason why there are so many foreigners playing in the Prem is that, quite frankly, you get better value for money. Compare the cost of Andy Carroll to Aguerro, Suarez or Dzecko. Increasing the quota for "homegrown" players and you'll just get price inflation

6) Finally (for now), there is nothing wrong with the pyramid system. Right down the divisions, the crowds are healthy, the quality might be lacking but the competition is fierce and for the most part the clubs are important to their local communities. In fact, it's something the FA should be proud of. Sticking B teams of a few Prem clubs in there will destroy alot of what's good.

[Bianchi on Ice]

yawn.
how many qualified coaches in this country compared to spain, holland, germany, france. italy?

quality AND quantity of coaching.

not some shitty half baked Bean team league

[twosips]

I'm personally of the opinion that its a cultural problem too. I've got a theory on this and ill try and explain it the best i can. It's not the only reason but i definitely think it contributes.

We have a one way market... English players simply don't play abroad. There are a few exceptions, yes, but in general we just stay here. We're the only country that's like this. It's odd. You get French, German, Spanish, Brazilian, Dutch, Belgian, Argentinian players etc etc all moving around the world looking for first team football (and at the same time expanding their game) whereas our youth players would rather drop down divisions or stagnate in the reserves then test themselves in a good league somewhere else.

It kinda creates a false economy in my opinion. We've got 30 odd Spanish players and 30 plus French players in this league.

The spanish league has 30 add Argies, 20 plus Brazilians and Portugese...and one English player. Does it not seem a bit weird considering we're considered a major footballing nation? It's the exact same if you look at the german, french, italian leagues etc. They're all littered with talented footballers from all corners of the world but barely an Englishman amongst them.

If our players moved abroad looking for football many would invariably find it, and i'd be willing to bet that some of them would make a name for themselves starting out at a club like hoffenheim or a sampdoria or a bordeaux or a Deportivo... learning different methods of play, getting football in the process before either moving to a major club if they develop their game, or moving back here better players.

Young english players look at job opportunities (cos thats what they are) with narrow minds. They rule themselves out of potential jobs worldwide cos they don't want to leave England...instead they sit on their arses and refuse to do anything about it. It's a mindset of ours and its not a very helpful one. Their opportunities for first team football would multiply immensely if they moved abroad and some of them would be starting to become real players by the time they're in their early twenties and we'd have players playing abroad making the England squad. What we'd find too is that things would eventually start to balance out. We'd be importing English players back to the leagues at prices as cheap as the foreign players we brought in (which is why most look abroad in the first place)....

It all goes back to the English arrogance. We are an arrogant nation. It's not intentional, its just a result of who we are - We're highly influential as a country. Be it sporting innovations, cultural things in terms of media - music, literature, television and films, having the number one spoken language etc... it all means that we kinda think subconsciously everyone should be like us - so we stay here. There are exceptions obviously, but its definitely a thing. We don't think of looking outwards cos everyone is looking in at us.

There are other fundamental problems too with player development and training, yes, but i definitely think this contributes to it greatly.

[Lev Bronstein]

I'm personally of the opinion that its a cultural problem too. I've got a theory on this and ill try and explain it the best i can. It's not the only reason but i definitely think it contributes.

We have a one way market... English players simply don't play abroad. There are a few exceptions, yes, but in general we just stay here. We're the only country that's like this. It's odd. You get French, German, Spanish, Brazilian, Dutch, Belgian, Argentinian players etc etc all moving around the world looking for first team football (and at the same time expanding their game) whereas our youth players would rather drop down divisions or stagnate in the reserves then test themselves in a good league somewhere else.

It kinda creates a false economy in my opinion. We've got 30 odd Spanish players and 30 plus French players in this league.

The spanish league has 30 add Argies, 20 plus Brazilians and Portugese...and one English player. Does it not seem a bit weird considering we're considered a major footballing nation? It's the exact same if you look at the german, french, italian leagues etc. They're all littered with talented footballers from all corners of the world but barely an Englishman amongst them.

If our players moved abroad looking for football many would invariably find it, and i'd be willing to bet that some of them would make a name for themselves starting out at a club like hoffenheim or a sampdoria or a bordeaux or a Deportivo... learning different methods of play, getting football in the process before either moving to a major club if they develop their game, or moving back here better players.

Young english players look at job opportunities (cos thats what they are) with narrow minds. They rule themselves out of potential jobs worldwide cos they don't want to leave England...instead they sit on their arses and refuse to do anything about it. It's a mindset of ours and its not a very helpful one. Their opportunities for first team football would multiply immensely if they moved abroad and some of them would be starting to become real players by the time they're in their early twenties and we'd have players playing abroad making the England squad. What we'd find too is that things would eventually start to balance out. We'd be importing English players back to the leagues at prices as cheap as the foreign players we brought in (which is why most look abroad in the first place)....

It all goes back to the English arrogance. We are an arrogant nation. It's not intentional, its just a result of who we are - We're highly influential as a country. Be it sporting innovations, cultural things in terms of media - music, literature, television and films, having the number one spoken language etc... it all means that we kinda think subconsciously everyone should be like us - so we stay here. There are exceptions obviously, but its definitely a thing. We don't think of looking outwards cos everyone is looking in at us.

There are other fundamental problems too with player development and training, yes, but i definitely think this contributes to it greatly.

Pretty much agree with that. Who's the English player in Spain?

[zuricity]

I'm personally of the opinion that its a cultural problem too. I've got a theory on this and ill try and explain it the best i can. It's not the only reason but i definitely think it contributes.

We have a one way market... English players simply don't play abroad. There are a few exceptions, yes, but in general we just stay here. We're the only country that's like this. It's odd. You get French, German, Spanish, Brazilian, Dutch, Belgian, Argentinian players etc etc all moving around the world looking for first team football (and at the same time expanding their game) whereas our youth players would rather drop down divisions or stagnate in the reserves then test themselves in a good league somewhere else.

It kinda creates a false economy in my opinion. We've got 30 odd Spanish players and 30 plus French players in this league.

The spanish league has 30 add Argies, 20 plus Brazilians and Portugese...and one English player. Does it not seem a bit weird considering we're considered a major footballing nation? It's the exact same if you look at the german, french, italian leagues etc. They're all littered with talented footballers from all corners of the world but barely an Englishman amongst them.

If our players moved abroad looking for football many would invariably find it, and i'd be willing to bet that some of them would make a name for themselves starting out at a club like hoffenheim or a sampdoria or a bordeaux or a Deportivo... learning different methods of play, getting football in the process before either moving to a major club if they develop their game, or moving back here better players.

Young english players look at job opportunities (cos thats what they are) with narrow minds. They rule themselves out of potential jobs worldwide cos they don't want to leave England...instead they sit on their arses and refuse to do anything about it. It's a mindset of ours and its not a very helpful one. Their opportunities for first team football would multiply immensely if they moved abroad and some of them would be starting to become real players by the time they're in their early twenties and we'd have players playing abroad making the England squad. What we'd find too is that things would eventually start to balance out. We'd be importing English players back to the leagues at prices as cheap as the foreign players we brought in (which is why most look abroad in the first place)....

It all goes back to the English arrogance. We are an arrogant nation. It's not intentional, its just a result of who we are - We're highly influential as a country. Be it sporting innovations, cultural things in terms of media - music, literature, television and films, having the number one spoken language etc... it all means that we kinda think subconsciously everyone should be like us - so we stay here. There are exceptions obviously, but its definitely a thing. We don't think of looking outwards cos everyone is looking in at us.

There are other fundamental problems too with player development and training, yes, but i definitely think this contributes to it greatly.

The arrogance stems from the English thinking they are important. Not from actually being important.

[twosips]

I'd agree ^

....though England is unarguably a world super power for many, many reasons. Whether you like it or not. English culture is idolised in many, many countries. It comes from having a huge world famous entertainment industry and our football league is the most viewed etc

We are important as a country BUT we're not as important as we think we are. We definitely have an inflated opinion of ourselves.

[twosips]

Pretty much agree with that. Who's the English player in Spain?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... Spain.html

That bloke! Bless him.