Football League: Play-Off Weekend

[Alioune DVToure]

Steve McClaren has won trophies with unfancied clubs as a manager, taking one of these to a European final in the process.

Deserves more respect in my opinion.

[feedthegreek]

Couple of cracking goals in the league 1 playoff . Well worth a look .

great game 2-2 all after extra time, rotherham going up win on pens.

[Goaters 103]

Unlike poor Ya Ya, I dont think anyone ever forgot to give that horrible troll Rotherham manager his birthday cake did they? The fat bastard.

[Benjay]

great game 2-2 all after extra time, rotherham going up win on pens.

I was there. Father in law is a Rotherham fan. Seen two great goals at Wembley this season. Yaya and Revell.

[Beefymcfc]

Looked a cracking game, finished off a treat.

[feedthegreek]

the cod army into league one, otherwise fleetwood ex city player with free kick 1-0 sarcida.

[Beefymcfc]

Amazing climb from oblivion for Fleetwood. It took a shitload of money (approx 10 mil) but who can begrudge them their rise though the leagues.

Shit game mind.

[Dameerto]

Steve McClaren has won trophies with unfancied clubs as a manager, taking one of these to a European final in the process.

Deserves more respect in my opinion.

His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best. Very happy to take credit for the hard work of his underlings though (assuming he hasn't been sacked or chosen to walk out midseason).

[Alioune DVToure]

His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best. Very happy to take credit for the hard work of his underlings though (assuming he hasn't been sacked or chosen to walk out midseason).

'His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best.'

I don't get your point here. So you say he's just a coach but can't even take credit for his coaching? Derby's meteoric rise is nothing to do with him?

He took Middlesbrough to a European final and won them a domestic cup. He won the Dutch league in his first season at Twente, seeing off the challenge of the much more fancied Ajax. He's got blotches on his managerial record, of course, but he's won trophies with unfancied clubs. Very few managers in England have managed to do that.

[mr_nool]

His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best. Very happy to take credit for the hard work of his underlings though (assuming he hasn't been sacked or chosen to walk out midseason).

'His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best.'

I don't get your point here. So you say he's just a coach but can't even take credit for his coaching? Derby's meteoric rise is nothing to do with him?

He took Middlesbrough to a European final and won them a domestic cup. He won the Dutch league in his first season at Twente, seeing off the challenge of the much more fancied Ajax. He's got blotches on his managerial record, of course, but he's won trophies with unfancied clubs. Very few managers in England have managed to do that.

And isn't managing largely about delegating?

[Nigels Tackle]

His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best. Very happy to take credit for the hard work of his underlings though (assuming he hasn't been sacked or chosen to walk out midseason).

'His only managerial skill is delegation. He's a coach at best.'

I don't get your point here. So you say he's just a coach but can't even take credit for his coaching? Derby's meteoric rise is nothing to do with him?

He took Middlesbrough to a European final and won them a domestic cup. He won the Dutch league in his first season at Twente, seeing off the challenge of the much more fancied Ajax. He's got blotches on his managerial record, of course, but he's won trophies with unfancied clubs. Very few managers in England have managed to do that.

And isn't managing largely about delegating?

indeed
sir clive woodward
sir david brailsford
baconface

masters of of delegation

[Dameerto]

If you have a director of football to make the signings for you (or a chairman who basically acts like one), and if the setup you are entering is largely complete and has been developed over four or five years (like Derby) then you can get away with being just a coach.
I'm surprised Derby didn't pay credit to Nigel Clough after getting to the playoff final since it was largely his work McClaren inherited. He picks his jobs carefully because he has limitations - he is not a 'manager' in any complete sense. And I have nothing but contempt for him.

[Alioune DVToure]

If you have a director of football to make the signings for you (or a chairman who basically acts like one), and if the setup you are entering is largely complete and has been developed over four or five years (like Derby) then you can get away with being just a coach.
I'm surprised Derby didn't pay credit to Nigel Clough after getting to the playoff final since it was largely his work McClaren inherited. He picks his jobs carefully because he has limitations - he is not a 'manager' in any complete sense. And I have nothing but contempt for him.

That bit about Clough is the daftest thing I've read in weeks. Derby were going nowhere when McClaren took over mid-season and finished third. How on earth can you give him zero credit for that? Completely bizarre.

[Dameerto]

If you have a director of football to make the signings for you (or a chairman who basically acts like one), and if the setup you are entering is largely complete and has been developed over four or five years (like Derby) then you can get away with being just a coach.
I'm surprised Derby didn't pay credit to Nigel Clough after getting to the playoff final since it was largely his work McClaren inherited. He picks his jobs carefully because he has limitations - he is not a 'manager' in any complete sense. And I have nothing but contempt for him.

That bit about Clough is the daftest thing I've read in weeks. Derby were going nowhere when McClaren took over mid-season and finished third. How on earth can you give him zero credit for that? Completely bizarre.

They'd been showing steady progress year on year since Clough took over, picking up a couple of places per season, probably heading for a top eight finish. You talk about credit where it's due and you're going to overlook Clough's efforts? Something like 1.5 points a game for the Clough games in the season he was sacked and some decimal fraction better under McClaren. They weren't expected to do much, so McClaren wasn't under any pressure to succeed, third was an achievement I agree, but his achievements tend to be in the seasons where there's no expectation on him. Let's see how he does in the new season when he's expected to challenge for promotion again. My prediction is that he won't do as well. Or he'll do a Twente and walk away before he gets found out.

[Alioune DVToure]

They'd been showing steady progress year on year since Clough took over, picking up a couple of places per season, probably heading for a top eight finish. You talk about credit where it's due and you're going to overlook Clough's efforts? Something like 1.5 points a game for the Clough games in the season he was sacked and some decimal fraction better under McClaren. They weren't expected to do much, so McClaren wasn't under any pressure to succeed, third was an achievement I agree, but his achievements tend to be in the seasons where there's no expectation on him. Let's see how he does in the new season when he's expected to challenge for promotion again. My prediction is that he won't do as well. Or he'll do a Twente and walk away before he gets found out.

Derby picked up 72 points from 35 games under McClaren this season; 12 points from 10 games under Clough. Almost an extra point per game.

[Dameerto]

Actually 11 points from 9 since he was sacked after the loss to Forest. So McClaren was 74 points from 37 assuming he was in charge for the game at home to Ipswich following the announcement on the 30th. I love pedantry too.

[Alioune DVToure]

Actually 11 points from 9 since he was sacked after the loss to Forest. So McClaren was 74 points from 37 assuming he was in charge for the game at home to Ipswich following the announcement on the 30th. I love pedantry too.

He wasn't in charge for the Ipswich game, and the statistic that you introduced is shot to shit. Hard truth, not pedantry.

[Dameerto]

"...something like..." You were the only one quoting hard (and factually incorrect) numbers.
Is he you boyfriend by any chance?

[Alioune DVToure]

"...something like..." You were the only one quoting hard (and factually incorrect) numbers.
Is he you boyfriend by any chance?

He's my boyfriend, yes. You tragic twat. Grow up.

You were the one who said they (Clough + McClaren) each picked up roughly 1.5 points per game each last season, casting doubt on my assertion that McClaren did much better ('Something like 1.5 points a game for the Clough games in the season he was sacked and some decimal fraction better under McClaren'). I knew this to be nonsense, so I quickly checked it out and showed you that McClaren picked up more than 2 points per game whereas Clough picked up closer to 1.0 than 1.5.

You were the one who challenged my post in the first place before going on to spout a load of nonsense, based on your open 'contempt' for Steve McClaren rather than objective facts and figures.

Don't spout shit if you can't stand to be corrected.

[Dameerto]

So your OCD-like fascination with something you saw as specific rather than the overall general point of the post is perfectly rational then? I see. By the way you were the one callling me out for suggesting having McClaren or Redknapp in the Prem was like having the choice of pissing or shitting myself. If you don't like opinions different to your own then fuck off away from the internet knob cheese.
But if you can keep our little discussion going until the World Cup starts before you fuck off away from the interweb I would be grateful.