the engine room

[lets all have a disco]

But is there a type of player like that out there and might be available?

We dont need a Roy Keane we need a player with energy,drive and a has a goal in them aka a young Frank Lampard or a current Ross Barkley.

Like Milner?
Or when we get a player that wants to run around, Jovetic, we moan that he doesn't do this or doesn't do that.

Yes and no.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Some good points raised here (apart from R*y K**ne...wash your fucking mouth out).

I would suggest we go with a back 3/5 with one of the DM dropping into the central role of the back 3/5 and play a diamond with 1 up top. This way our full backs can bomb on and the player at the base of the diamond can drop and make a back four if required, also if the back five is in place and we win possession centrally then the DM can step out of the back four and join the play. To would be much more fluid and would plug the gaps IMO.
........................................HART............................................
.............................................................................................
........... KOMPANY..... FERNANDO..... MANGALA.................
ZABBA..................................................................KOLAROV
....|............................FERNANDINHO.............................|.......
....|....................................................................................|.......
....|.......MILNER.................................... NASRI..............|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....|..................................SILVA......................................|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....>.......................AGUERO............................................<......

In this year's World Cup, Mascherano's role in the Argentinian team was the same as your suggestion as to where and how to play Fernando.

He (Mascherano) never seemed to drop even deeper and fall behind the defenders, to play as a pseudo sweeper, but, if circumstances had required it, he was there to do that if/whenever required.

Perhaps playing as a centre-back for Barcelona might have helped him in this position but, as a result, I thought the Argentinian defence seemed, for the most part, quite solid in that tournament.

Just an odd thought or two, but would this affect, in any way, the high-line pressing game that Pellegrini wants his teams to use [or would the defence be better playing deeper and our attacks built up faster on the break ??] and if Fernando was injured, who would be the best 'deputy' in this role [ Milner??] and are there any EDS members who could fill this position ??

[Ted Hughes]

Look at the defending here, it's IDENTICAL.

Yaya lets Cavani score. Then we have Nige, Yaya & Milner, all with their heads up their arses whilst Cavani strolls into the box & scores. Imagine if we had gone to the swamp & allowed Rooney that kind of freedom ?

So there's your two players in addition to Yaya, drilled by a defensive specialist manager but all 3 still doing fuck all when needed.

Watch on youtube.com

Here's Gareth Barry doing a Yaya vs Bayern, again under a manager who specialises in defending:

Watch on youtube.com

City vs Ajax, again under a defensive specialist manager. Two goals from corners, 2nd Yaya near post.

Watch on youtube.com

then we have our present team & manager, with young bucks Totti & Maicon running through our defence.

Watch on youtube.com

Then we look at the two goals scored last night & indeed the two in Moscow..

We can talk tactics & midfield generals etc etc as much as we like but if our team played like this in the Prem, we would never have got anywhere near the top 4.

These goals are just elementary shite . Our team has been shite in Europe since day 1. If they played as they can play, & defended with even a degree of competence, we wouldn't be.

[Wonderwall]

Some good points raised here (apart from R*y K**ne...wash your fucking mouth out).

I would suggest we go with a back 3/5 with one of the DM dropping into the central role of the back 3/5 and play a diamond with 1 up top. This way our full backs can bomb on and the player at the base of the diamond can drop and make a back four if required, also if the back five is in place and we win possession centrally then the DM can step out of the back four and join the play. To would be much more fluid and would plug the gaps IMO.
........................................HART............................................
.............................................................................................
........... KOMPANY..... FERNANDO..... MANGALA.................
ZABBA..................................................................KOLAROV
....|............................FERNANDINHO.............................|.......
....|....................................................................................|.......
....|.......MILNER.................................... NASRI..............|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....|..................................SILVA......................................|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....>.......................AGUERO............................................<......

In this year's World Cup, Mascherano's role in the Argentinian team was the same as your suggestion as to where and how to play Fernando.

He (Mascherano) never seemed to drop even deeper and fall behind the defenders, to play as a pseudo sweeper, but, if circumstances had required it, he was there to do that if/whenever required.

Perhaps playing as a centre-back for Barcelona might have helped him in this position but, as a result, I thought the Argentinian defence seemed, for the most part, quite solid in that tournament.

Just an odd thought or two, but would this affect, in any way, the high-line pressing game that Pellegrini wants his teams to use [or would the defence be better playing deeper and our attacks built up faster on the break ??] and if Fernando was injured, who would be the best 'deputy' in this role [ Milner??] and are there any EDS members who could fill this position ??

I would play MDM or Fernando there as MDM can play in that role, or maybe even Kompany as the man to orchestrate the defence in the centre as the utility CB/DM. the high pressing game and intensity is based on where the Full backs are when we lost possession, they would be key to the pressing game.

[Ted Hughes]

Some good points raised here (apart from R*y K**ne...wash your fucking mouth out).

I would suggest we go with a back 3/5 with one of the DM dropping into the central role of the back 3/5 and play a diamond with 1 up top. This way our full backs can bomb on and the player at the base of the diamond can drop and make a back four if required, also if the back five is in place and we win possession centrally then the DM can step out of the back four and join the play. To would be much more fluid and would plug the gaps IMO.
........................................HART............................................
.............................................................................................
........... KOMPANY..... FERNANDO..... MANGALA.................
ZABBA..................................................................KOLAROV
....|............................FERNANDINHO.............................|.......
....|....................................................................................|.......
....|.......MILNER.................................... NASRI..............|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....|..................................SILVA......................................|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....>.......................AGUERO............................................<......

In this year's World Cup, Mascherano's role in the Argentinian team was the same as your suggestion as to where and how to play Fernando.

He (Mascherano) never seemed to drop even deeper and fall behind the defenders, to play as a pseudo sweeper, but, if circumstances had required it, he was there to do that if/whenever required.

Perhaps playing as a centre-back for Barcelona might have helped him in this position but, as a result, I thought the Argentinian defence seemed, for the most part, quite solid in that tournament.

Just an odd thought or two, but would this affect, in any way, the high-line pressing game that Pellegrini wants his teams to use [or would the defence be better playing deeper and our attacks built up faster on the break ??] and if Fernando was injured, who would be the best 'deputy' in this role [ Milner??] and are there any EDS members who could fill this position ??

I would play MDM or Fernando there as MDM can play in that role, or maybe even Kompany as the man to orchestrate the defence in the centre as the utility CB/DM. the high pressing game and intensity is based on where the Full backs are when we lost possession, they would be key to the pressing game.

So we play that, & the Russians sit on the edge of their own box looking at us, then we all have to come forward to try & score, then they knock the ball over Kolarov's head to that fast cunt, Mangala falls over, & Zabba runs into Joe Hart, & some cunt taps the ball into an empty net, ala West Ham.

[Wonderwall]

Some good points raised here (apart from R*y K**ne...wash your fucking mouth out).

I would suggest we go with a back 3/5 with one of the DM dropping into the central role of the back 3/5 and play a diamond with 1 up top. This way our full backs can bomb on and the player at the base of the diamond can drop and make a back four if required, also if the back five is in place and we win possession centrally then the DM can step out of the back four and join the play. To would be much more fluid and would plug the gaps IMO.
........................................HART............................................
.............................................................................................
........... KOMPANY..... FERNANDO..... MANGALA.................
ZABBA..................................................................KOLAROV
....|............................FERNANDINHO.............................|.......
....|....................................................................................|.......
....|.......MILNER.................................... NASRI..............|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....|..................................SILVA......................................|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....>.......................AGUERO............................................<......

In this year's World Cup, Mascherano's role in the Argentinian team was the same as your suggestion as to where and how to play Fernando.

He (Mascherano) never seemed to drop even deeper and fall behind the defenders, to play as a pseudo sweeper, but, if circumstances had required it, he was there to do that if/whenever required.

Perhaps playing as a centre-back for Barcelona might have helped him in this position but, as a result, I thought the Argentinian defence seemed, for the most part, quite solid in that tournament.

Just an odd thought or two, but would this affect, in any way, the high-line pressing game that Pellegrini wants his teams to use [or would the defence be better playing deeper and our attacks built up faster on the break ??] and if Fernando was injured, who would be the best 'deputy' in this role [ Milner??] and are there any EDS members who could fill this position ??

I would play MDM or Fernando there as MDM can play in that role, or maybe even Kompany as the man to orchestrate the defence in the centre as the utility CB/DM. the high pressing game and intensity is based on where the Full backs are when we lost possession, they would be key to the pressing game.

So we play that, & the Russians sit on the edge of their own box looking at us, then we all have to come forward to try & score, then they knock the ball over Kolarov's head to that fast cunt, Mangala falls over, & Zabba runs into Joe Hart, & some cunt taps the ball into an empty net, ala West Ham.

Never thought about that exact scenario, OK So we play with a false back 4 then and reinvent football to bamboozle everyone

[Ted Hughes]

If we defend as we have been doing, the numbers make no difference.

Look at the video I have posted of the Roma game & Maicon.

[phips]

Some good points raised here (apart from R*y K**ne...wash your fucking mouth out).

I would suggest we go with a back 3/5 with one of the DM dropping into the central role of the back 3/5 and play a diamond with 1 up top. This way our full backs can bomb on and the player at the base of the diamond can drop and make a back four if required, also if the back five is in place and we win possession centrally then the DM can step out of the back four and join the play. To would be much more fluid and would plug the gaps IMO.
........................................HART............................................
.............................................................................................
........... KOMPANY..... FERNANDO..... MANGALA.................
ZABBA..................................................................KOLAROV
....|............................FERNANDINHO.............................|.......
....|....................................................................................|.......
....|.......MILNER.................................... NASRI..............|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....|..................................SILVA......................................|......
....|...................................................................................|.......
....>.......................AGUERO............................................<......

Pellegrini will never drop Yaya unless he's injured or suspended or back from international duty the day prior. so, basically, he won't drop him.

[Sideshow Bob]

I keep thinking back to the 1-0 derby in spring 2012 when we absolutely had to get 3 pts. we defended as a team for 90 min and stifled the fuck out of the rags. except for lescott, our back 4 was the same then as it was last night. what the fuck has happened to us??

[Hazy2]

I keep thinking back to the 1-0 derby in spring 2012 when we absolutely had to get 3 pts. we defended as a team for 90 min and stifled the fuck out of the rags. except for lescott, our back 4 was the same then as it was last night. what the fuck has happened to us??

I think we would struggle against Europa league teams, the pressing as a team has gone, maybe Mancini was right about the modern player, he shrugs when he is told to do something, Vinny barking at them all night had no effect, very similar to Arsenal in a lot of ways, lots of players getting forward, lots of players taken out by one pass, No way should that happen to the quality we have, Like Merson said of Arsenal, at times it is clueless, and became the pattern all night, how the Count did not jump on this after Roma and the game last night was beyond words and he is a stubborn manager like Wenger. Like he said Tony Adams would have wrecked the dressing room if you ignored him on the pitch all night. Maybe the skinny latte brigade are in today and being shown a DVD of the nightmare they had. Or does the Count accept it is his problem See you at Stockport Train Station Friday.

[Ted Hughes]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

[Hazy2]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

So we have thick players, is the solution within the squad or is a facelift needed to compete with the elite and a Chelsea that could run away with league.

[Wooders]

I don't have time to get fully into it but has someone in this thread really compared Milner to Roy Keane?

[Ted Hughes]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

So we have thick players, is the solution within the squad or is a facelift needed to compete with the elite and a Chelsea that could run away with league.

I think we would be neck & neck with Chelsea if we concentrated on that competition.

We are the only team to enter the Champions Lg & talk about winning it immediately. That pressure has fucked up this group of players imo.

We have never played our natural game in that competition. We have frozen. I think we should just concentrate on the title each season & treat the Champions League as an adventure rather than something we are supposed to win. If we do that, I think we will start to play our normal game, which would be enough to shit all over teams like CSKA & Roma.

[Hazy2]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

So we have thick players, is the solution within the squad or is a facelift needed to compete with the elite and a Chelsea that could run away with league.

I think we would be neck & neck with Chelsea if we concentrated on that competition.

We are the only team to enter the Champions Lg & talk about winning it immediately. That pressure has fucked up this group of players imo.

We have never played our natural game in that competition. We have frozen. I think we should just concentrate on the title each season & treat the Champions League as an adventure rather than something we are supposed to win. If we do that, I think we will start to play our normal game, which would be enough to shit all over teams like CSKA & Roma.

The format brings a pressure, as you have shown piss poor defending will haunt you. We also in my opinion need a freshen up, the only options are gonna cost, the 25 we have included players that have no chance of ever becoming a regular, I also see major issues with the same players being nailed on starters, I said some time ago we are poor at fullback including Zabba who along with many others never looks at the standard of the league form. I hate the arrogance of Bayern however they have a team ethic we must look at, World Cup winners running there knackers off twice a week, Robben is the best example of a player smelling the coffee and sorting his shit out.

[Mase]

I don't have time to get fully into it but has someone in this thread really compared Milner to Roy Keane?

No you spaz. Read the thread.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm optimistic our kids are learning to play the right way to be competitive in Europe in the future. In the short term, I think we should just build a squad to win the Prem & then just try to find a method which gives us a foothold in the Champs Lg rather than thinking we can win it.

Just tell the fans we are going to try & scrape through as far as we can because we have not been good enough to win it. This talk every year of winning it, is one of the main problems imo. We tried that angle, & we failed. Hold our hands up & admit it.

If players don't like that, fuck them off.

[Wooders]

I don't have time to get fully into it but has someone in this thread really compared Milner to Roy Keane?

No you spaz. Read the thread.

Ok cool

[Mikhail Chigorin]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

So we have thick players, is the solution within the squad or is a facelift needed to compete with the elite and a Chelsea that could run away with league.

I think we would be neck & neck with Chelsea if we concentrated on that competition.

We are the only team to enter the Champions Lg & talk about winning it immediately. That pressure has fucked up this group of players imo.

We have never played our natural game in that competition. We have frozen. I think we should just concentrate on the title each season & treat the Champions League as an adventure rather than something we are supposed to win. If we do that, I think we will start to play our normal game, which would be enough to shit all over teams like CSKA & Roma.

The format brings a pressure, as you have shown piss poor defending will haunt you. We also in my opinion need a freshen up, the only options are gonna cost, the 25 we have included players that have no chance of ever becoming a regular, I also see major issues with the same players being nailed on starters, I said some time ago we are poor at fullback including Zabba who along with many others never looks at the standard of the league form. I hate the arrogance of Bayern however they have a team ethic we must look at, World Cup winners running there knackers off twice a week, Robben is the best example of a player smelling the coffee and sorting his shit out.

Are they really doing that ??

If the Bundesliga is so poor overall and Bayern are the only team in town, are they really needing to run their socks off, or can they just coast through a load of games and save themselves for the Champions League encounters ??

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking the question because I don't know.

[zuricity]

We have been doing this for years in Europe. It's nothing new.

So we have thick players, is the solution within the squad or is a facelift needed to compete with the elite and a Chelsea that could run away with league.

I think we would be neck & neck with Chelsea if we concentrated on that competition.

We are the only team to enter the Champions Lg & talk about winning it immediately. That pressure has fucked up this group of players imo.

We have never played our natural game in that competition. We have frozen. I think we should just concentrate on the title each season & treat the Champions League as an adventure rather than something we are supposed to win. If we do that, I think we will start to play our normal game, which would be enough to shit all over teams like CSKA & Roma.

The format brings a pressure, as you have shown piss poor defending will haunt you. We also in my opinion need a freshen up, the only options are gonna cost, the 25 we have included players that have no chance of ever becoming a regular, I also see major issues with the same players being nailed on starters, I said some time ago we are poor at fullback including Zabba who along with many others never looks at the standard of the league form. I hate the arrogance of Bayern however they have a team ethic we must look at, World Cup winners running there knackers off twice a week, Robben is the best example of a player smelling the coffee and sorting his shit out.

Are they really doing that ??

If the Bundesliga is so poor overall and Bayern are the only team in town, are they really needing to run their socks off, or can they just cxoast through a load of games and save themselves for the Champions League encounters ??

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking the question because I don't know.

They coast and get some cracking decisions from time to time.