Is it possible for the Count to get the sack?

[RodneyRodney]

Pocchhettinnos aheads of him in the queue

[Ted Hughes]

Watching yesterday, any manager who came in would face the same problem, as Ted pointed out in another thread. We play through Ya Ya. He is the guy who picks up the ball and starts the moves. The other central midfielders don't appear to be able to do that. Even against a poor QPR team, Ya ya was ineffective further forwards. He was much better deep,but in deep CM he wont track and he is out of form, even though he is still better than the alternatives. Even when in form, teams particularly in the chumps know that stop Ya Ya, stop City. And they do and more clubs will get the picture. And we're not helped by his inability to deal with this,by either going down convincingly or brushing people aside in the way we know he can.So, we need to be evolving a new system. How do we do that with Ya Ya in the team? Difficult. Who are we looking to as alternatives? Fernandinho, Frank?Ask yourself how much sense either makes. We will get better when Silva comes back.But it is probably too late for the chumps league, and Chelsea are settled in a highly effective style which seems certain to win them the premiership. The question is, what is the management team doing and thinking about this problem?Has Pelligrini got the nouse and authority to deal with it or is he a lame duck. Player wise who are we looking to bring in given that Ya Ya is a totally original one off and we will have to build our playing style afresh Managerwise,can we afford to wait 18 months for a maybe Guardiola who I expect would meet similar difficulties. I suspect these are the issues exercising the top brass' minds.I think they may make a move earlier than we think. Be sure of one thing, they will have no loyalty to Pellers because it will be a hard nosed business decision.And people saying "oh well, lets win the FA cup" is it as easy as that?

The one major reason we are way below the levels of last season under Pellegrini is the fact that we rely heavily on playing through Yaya as you have stated , Yaya this season however has been abysmal so far ............ Pellegrini needs a plan B or Yaya needs to fucking start performing , either will do and we will be fine again . Guardiola won't be available for quite a while , maybe next summer so our owners have a lot of sorting out to do .

Yaya was our 2nd best player after Aguero yesterday. Mistakes & all.

He was the bloke who created our best football, & might have won us the game had Aguero not prevented him from shooting.

He has rarely been as bad as the overall team standard in any game he's played. People made the decision on his performances before the season started, & no matter how many chances he creates, are just queueing up to pick out his bad moments, whilst conveniently ignoring his good ones, such as the magnificent pass over the top for Aguero's goal & the superb run & cross, which someone should have been tapping into an empty net, which was better wide play than anything Navas, Silva or Milner have produced all season.

[simon12]

I was always under the impression he had a 2 year contract which means it is up at the end of this season. I hope our owners do not press the panic button. I don't think they will mid season but if a better manager becomes available next summer they will not renew his contract and employ somebody else probably on a similar basis which at the moment seems very shrewd.

[Ted Hughes]

I was always under the impression he had a 2 year contract which means it is up at the end of this season. I hope our owners do not press the panic button. I don't think they will mid season but if a better manager becomes available next summer they will not renew his contract and employ somebody else probably on a similar basis which at the moment seems very shrewd.

If we aren't planning on giving said manager multi millions to spend, & we have a plan in mind for whoever replaces him then you could call it shrewd, provided that manager is able to work better than Pellegrini with the players he has.

If you either give him shitloads of money for players & he misses the title & then we have a bunch of players the next manager didn't want, or he finishes out of the top four, then it would be more disasterous rather than shrewd, & could put us back 5 or 6 years.

Pellegrini staying on for a while, doing ok, & handing over to another manager we have already chosen, would be shrewd.

[City64]

Watching yesterday, any manager who came in would face the same problem, as Ted pointed out in another thread. We play through Ya Ya. He is the guy who picks up the ball and starts the moves. The other central midfielders don't appear to be able to do that. Even against a poor QPR team, Ya ya was ineffective further forwards. He was much better deep,but in deep CM he wont track and he is out of form, even though he is still better than the alternatives. Even when in form, teams particularly in the chumps know that stop Ya Ya, stop City. And they do and more clubs will get the picture. And we're not helped by his inability to deal with this,by either going down convincingly or brushing people aside in the way we know he can.So, we need to be evolving a new system. How do we do that with Ya Ya in the team? Difficult. Who are we looking to as alternatives? Fernandinho, Frank?Ask yourself how much sense either makes. We will get better when Silva comes back.But it is probably too late for the chumps league, and Chelsea are settled in a highly effective style which seems certain to win them the premiership. The question is, what is the management team doing and thinking about this problem?Has Pelligrini got the nouse and authority to deal with it or is he a lame duck. Player wise who are we looking to bring in given that Ya Ya is a totally original one off and we will have to build our playing style afresh Managerwise,can we afford to wait 18 months for a maybe Guardiola who I expect would meet similar difficulties. I suspect these are the issues exercising the top brass' minds.I think they may make a move earlier than we think. Be sure of one thing, they will have no loyalty to Pellers because it will be a hard nosed business decision.And people saying "oh well, lets win the FA cup" is it as easy as that?

The one major reason we are way below the levels of last season under Pellegrini is the fact that we rely heavily on playing through Yaya as you have stated , Yaya this season however has been abysmal so far ............ Pellegrini needs a plan B or Yaya needs to fucking start performing , either will do and we will be fine again . Guardiola won't be available for quite a while , maybe next summer so our owners have a lot of sorting out to do .

Yaya was our 2nd best player after Aguero yesterday. Mistakes & all.

He was the bloke who created our best football, & might have won us the game had Aguero not prevented him from shooting.

He has rarely been as bad as the overall team standard in any game he's played. People made the decision on his performances before the season started, & no matter how many chances he creates, are just queueing up to pick out his bad moments, whilst conveniently ignoring his good ones, such as the magnificent pass over the top for Aguero's goal & the superb run & cross, which someone should have been tapping into an empty net, which was better wide play than anything Navas, Silva or Milner have produced all season.

He was better last night granted but his seasons efforts thus far are way below par . He is that good a player , maybe age is catching up with him ? we don't know ........ but his dip in overall form is having a huge effect on our performances and subsequent results . Pellegrini needs a plan B or Yaya needs to find his form of last season in Pellegrini,s first season .

[simon12]

I was always under the impression he had a 2 year contract which means it is up at the end of this season. I hope our owners do not press the panic button. I don't think they will mid season but if a better manager becomes available next summer they will not renew his contract and employ somebody else probably on a similar basis which at the moment seems very shrewd.

If we aren't planning on giving said manager multi millions to spend, & we have a plan in mind for whoever replaces him then you could call it shrewd, provided that manager is able to work better than Pellegrini with the players he has.

If you either give him shitloads of money for players & he misses the title & then we have a bunch of players the next manager didn't want, or he finishes out of the top four, then it would be more disasterous rather than shrewd, & could put us back 5 or 6 years.

Pellegrini staying on for a while, doing ok, & handing over to another manager we have already chosen, would be shrewd.

I would hazard a guess that has already happened but he doesn't want to come. I would rather MP stay I think the Jan transfer window will be very telling.

[Ted Hughes]

Watching yesterday, any manager who came in would face the same problem, as Ted pointed out in another thread. We play through Ya Ya. He is the guy who picks up the ball and starts the moves. The other central midfielders don't appear to be able to do that. Even against a poor QPR team, Ya ya was ineffective further forwards. He was much better deep,but in deep CM he wont track and he is out of form, even though he is still better than the alternatives. Even when in form, teams particularly in the chumps know that stop Ya Ya, stop City. And they do and more clubs will get the picture. And we're not helped by his inability to deal with this,by either going down convincingly or brushing people aside in the way we know he can.So, we need to be evolving a new system. How do we do that with Ya Ya in the team? Difficult. Who are we looking to as alternatives? Fernandinho, Frank?Ask yourself how much sense either makes. We will get better when Silva comes back.But it is probably too late for the chumps league, and Chelsea are settled in a highly effective style which seems certain to win them the premiership. The question is, what is the management team doing and thinking about this problem?Has Pelligrini got the nouse and authority to deal with it or is he a lame duck. Player wise who are we looking to bring in given that Ya Ya is a totally original one off and we will have to build our playing style afresh Managerwise,can we afford to wait 18 months for a maybe Guardiola who I expect would meet similar difficulties. I suspect these are the issues exercising the top brass' minds.I think they may make a move earlier than we think. Be sure of one thing, they will have no loyalty to Pellers because it will be a hard nosed business decision.And people saying "oh well, lets win the FA cup" is it as easy as that?

The one major reason we are way below the levels of last season under Pellegrini is the fact that we rely heavily on playing through Yaya as you have stated , Yaya this season however has been abysmal so far ............ Pellegrini needs a plan B or Yaya needs to fucking start performing , either will do and we will be fine again . Guardiola won't be available for quite a while , maybe next summer so our owners have a lot of sorting out to do .

Yaya was our 2nd best player after Aguero yesterday. Mistakes & all.

He was the bloke who created our best football, & might have won us the game had Aguero not prevented him from shooting.

He has rarely been as bad as the overall team standard in any game he's played. People made the decision on his performances before the season started, & no matter how many chances he creates, are just queueing up to pick out his bad moments, whilst conveniently ignoring his good ones, such as the magnificent pass over the top for Aguero's goal & the superb run & cross, which someone should have been tapping into an empty net, which was better wide play than anything Navas, Silva or Milner have produced all season.

He was better last night granted but his seasons efforts thus far are way below par . He is that good a player , maybe age is catching up with him ? we don't know ........ but his dip in overall form is having a huge effect on our performances and subsequent results . Pellegrini needs a plan B or Yaya needs to find his form of last season in Pellegrini,s first season .

Yaya was below par last night by his standards, as he has been all season, but still better than most of the other players, as he has been most of the season.

Don't understand why individual players are being singled out, when everyone is shit, unless they are shitter, as in the case of Clichy (but not vs Utd).

Yaya is one of our better players in pretty much every game, but is being marked down compared to last season rather than compared to the current performance level of his team mates, which is dreadful.

[Ted Hughes]

I was always under the impression he had a 2 year contract which means it is up at the end of this season. I hope our owners do not press the panic button. I don't think they will mid season but if a better manager becomes available next summer they will not renew his contract and employ somebody else probably on a similar basis which at the moment seems very shrewd.

If we aren't planning on giving said manager multi millions to spend, & we have a plan in mind for whoever replaces him then you could call it shrewd, provided that manager is able to work better than Pellegrini with the players he has.

If you either give him shitloads of money for players & he misses the title & then we have a bunch of players the next manager didn't want, or he finishes out of the top four, then it would be more disasterous rather than shrewd, & could put us back 5 or 6 years.

Pellegrini staying on for a while, doing ok, & handing over to another manager we have already chosen, would be shrewd.

I would hazard a guess that has already happened but he doesn't want to come. I would rather MP stay I think the Jan transfer window will be very telling.

I would doubt there is any manager we would want, who we could seriously aim to get in the middle of the season, unless we wanted Mancini back.

I'm talking 2, 3, 4 years down the line. If Pep is coming in 2 years, then ideally Pellegrini is the best option to keep us together until then, rather than appointing someone we know we will sack & giving him money (if we don't spend we will slip down the league whoever is in charge). Similarly, if the idea is to promote Vieira alongside some of his kids, then Pellegrini is the best option to bring that about over time.

If Neither Pep, nor Vieira are the plan & we are not happy with Pellegrini, then the sensible thing to do, would be to sack him & replace him with a long term manager. That decision would need to be made now, & the manager put in place after the season, even if Pellegrini wins the league. We have to act in the best interests of the club, if we don't think he is the best man for the job.

With hindsight, if the Spaniards had been in charge a year earlier, Mancini may have been sacked earlier & replaced by Guardiola, in spite of the potential outcry.

It's worth pointing out here though, that both Hughes & Mancini were given shitloads of money to put their teams together for the relative jobs, & Pellegrini has been largely balancing the squad they assembled, not building his own team, to play his way.

Pep etc will not accept that as a deal.

[AntMcfc]

He won't be sacked until the end of the season at the very earliest, regardless of how badly things go. The main reason for this is because there's nobody who can replace him mid-season. I think he'll stay until summer 2016 personally. I don't think we'll be able to entice Guardiola this summer, and I don't think Klopp or Simeone best represent what Soriano and Begiristain are looking for in a manager. I personally think we could do with a change, someone like Simeone to give this squad a real shake-up, but the big bosses upstairs are too stubborn to deter from their Barcelona model.

[City64]

Ted , my point is Pellegrini,s system totally evolves around Yaya and I think it is widely acknowledged that Yaya is contracted to play every game . Yaya,s form dips we dip ....... the fact that most of the squad are also out of sorts and in poor form is maybe a consequence of this or maybe not ? maybe confidence levels are shot ? only Pellegrini knows for sure but it is plainly clear he has no plan B without Yaya . Players do come in and out of form but we are miles from where we were last season . As I have posted elsewhere the international break might have come just at the right time for us and Pellegrini giving him time to re evaluate and get us back on the front foot .

[bayblue]

Ted , my point is Pellegrini,s system totally evolves around Yaya and I think it is widely acknowledged that Yaya is contracted to play every game . Yaya,s form dips we dip ....... the fact that most of the squad are also out of sorts and in poor form is maybe a consequence of this or maybe not ? maybe confidence levels are shot ? only Pellegrini knows for sure but it is plainly clear he has no plan B without Yaya . Players do come in and out of form but we are miles from where we were last season . As I have posted elsewhere the international break might have come just at the right time for us and Pellegrini giving him time to re evaluate and get us back on the front foot .

It's yaya and silva who are the main men. Yaya is always the main guy we play through but its silva who finds the space then to create. You're right we haven't a reserve for Yaya but with silva out it hits us far worse. For what it's worth I think we are judging Yaya more severely than some of our other players....but out if interest which other prem midfielders would you put in and trust to do a better job??

[City64]

Ted , my point is Pellegrini,s system totally evolves around Yaya and I think it is widely acknowledged that Yaya is contracted to play every game . Yaya,s form dips we dip ....... the fact that most of the squad are also out of sorts and in poor form is maybe a consequence of this or maybe not ? maybe confidence levels are shot ? only Pellegrini knows for sure but it is plainly clear he has no plan B without Yaya . Players do come in and out of form but we are miles from where we were last season . As I have posted elsewhere the international break might have come just at the right time for us and Pellegrini giving him time to re evaluate and get us back on the front foot .

It's yaya and silva who are the main men. Yaya is always the main guy we play through but its silva who finds the space then to create. You're right we haven't a reserve for Yaya but with silva out it hits us far worse. For what it's worth I think we are judging Yaya more severely than some of our other players....but out if interest which other prem midfielders would you put in and trust to do a better job??

No one in Premier League is better than Yaya , he is the best and has been outstandingly fantastic for us since he came to City , the conundrum is he isn't at his best this season so far , he isn't getting any younger and he is contracted ( reportedly) to play every game ? Silva has been playing consistently better than Yaya before he got injured but there partnership hasn't been as good as last season for me because of Yaya,s form . Pellegrini doesn't change from this system he needs a plan B if it continues to go pear shaped . Yaya could find his form again , he was better for the derby and had a decent game last night in terrible conditions on a tight pitch . Akin to this Fernandino and Fenando aren't doing it , Nasri hasn't turned up all season , Dzeko is a passenger , the defence leaking soft goals for fun and lastly Kun is carrying us !

[Ted Hughes]

Ted , my point is Pellegrini,s system totally evolves around Yaya and I think it is widely acknowledged that Yaya is contracted to play every game . Yaya,s form dips we dip ....... the fact that most of the squad are also out of sorts and in poor form is maybe a consequence of this or maybe not ? maybe confidence levels are shot ? only Pellegrini knows for sure but it is plainly clear he has no plan B without Yaya . Players do come in and out of form but we are miles from where we were last season . As I have posted elsewhere the international break might have come just at the right time for us and Pellegrini giving him time to re evaluate and get us back on the front foot .

It's yaya and silva who are the main men. Yaya is always the main guy we play through but its silva who finds the space then to create. You're right we haven't a reserve for Yaya but with silva out it hits us far worse. For what it's worth I think we are judging Yaya more severely than some of our other players....but out if interest which other prem midfielders would you put in and trust to do a better job??

No one in Premier League is better than Yaya , he is the best and has been outstandingly fantastic for us since he came to City , the conundrum is he isn't at his best this season so far , he isn't getting any younger and he is contracted ( reportedly) to play every game ? Silva has been playing consistently better than Yaya before he got injured but there partnership hasn't been as good as last season for me because of Yaya,s form . Pellegrini doesn't change from this system he needs a plan B if it continues to go pear shaped . Yaya could find his form again , he was better for the derby and had a decent game last night in terrible conditions on a tight pitch . Akin to this Fernandino and Fenando aren't doing it , Nasri hasn't turned up all season , Dzeko is a passenger , the defence leaking soft goals for fun and lastly Kun is carrying us !

I don't understand how anyone can level that criticsm of not changing a plan, against Pellegrini, when we have just watched him play Fernandinho & Fernando, with Yaya in a free, attacking role.

Also how can his team with Navas wide right, & Milner wide left, be the same as the team with Nasri & Silva in it ? They are not wide players, they drift all over the pitch, therefore it is absolutely NOT the same game plan.

I think the problem is that there are too many Michael Owens talking on tv about the way Pellegrini works, & not enough Brian Cloughs.

[City64]

Ted , my point is Pellegrini,s system totally evolves around Yaya and I think it is widely acknowledged that Yaya is contracted to play every game . Yaya,s form dips we dip ....... the fact that most of the squad are also out of sorts and in poor form is maybe a consequence of this or maybe not ? maybe confidence levels are shot ? only Pellegrini knows for sure but it is plainly clear he has no plan B without Yaya . Players do come in and out of form but we are miles from where we were last season . As I have posted elsewhere the international break might have come just at the right time for us and Pellegrini giving him time to re evaluate and get us back on the front foot .

It's yaya and silva who are the main men. Yaya is always the main guy we play through but its silva who finds the space then to create. You're right we haven't a reserve for Yaya but with silva out it hits us far worse. For what it's worth I think we are judging Yaya more severely than some of our other players....but out if interest which other prem midfielders would you put in and trust to do a better job??

No one in Premier League is better than Yaya , he is the best and has been outstandingly fantastic for us since he came to City , the conundrum is he isn't at his best this season so far , he isn't getting any younger and he is contracted ( reportedly) to play every game ? Silva has been playing consistently better than Yaya before he got injured but there partnership hasn't been as good as last season for me because of Yaya,s form . Pellegrini doesn't change from this system he needs a plan B if it continues to go pear shaped . Yaya could find his form again , he was better for the derby and had a decent game last night in terrible conditions on a tight pitch . Akin to this Fernandino and Fenando aren't doing it , Nasri hasn't turned up all season , Dzeko is a passenger , the defence leaking soft goals for fun and lastly Kun is carrying us !

I don't understand how anyone can level that criticsm of not changing a plan, against Pellegrini, when we have just watched him play Fernandinho & Fernando, with Yaya in a free, attacking role.

Also how can his team with Navas wide right, & Milner wide left, be the same as the team with Nasri & Silva in it ? They are not wide players, they drift all over the pitch, therefore it is absolutely NOT the same game plan.

I think the problem is that there are too many Michael Owens talking on tv about the way Pellegrini works, & not enough Brian Cloughs.

So giving Yaya a "rest" doesn't come into the equation? and he is contracted to play every game even if his form has dipped ? That's the whole issue not a swipe at individual players.

[Nigels Tackle]

pocahontas, permatan, whinger & van ghoul have far bigger problems to solve than the count

[getdressedmctavish]

Ted, I think you've missed the point here. As I've said, ya ya is our key player and as you note, yesterday he was our second best, but only I think when he dropped back into his deep role. Few can do what he does which is why, when he doesn't do it, we are shit. We have not found a system to allow him to do what he does best and yet compensate for his deficiencies which have loomed large this year. Though we have won two championships we have not completely imposed ourselves and in the Chumps league we have been found out by sides who negate Ya Ya(or who are all round better)As you pointed out the Count addressed the problem by playing the F twins together and pushing Ya Ya forwards. The result was we came under the cosh from a crap team and failed to produce when Ya Ya wasn't pulling the strings. The Counts changes show you its the problem to be addressed by whoever the manager is, and the outcome, a draw with a poor team, that the solution has not been found.What ever people think, I am sure the fact is the owner expects us to compete very closely for the league and chumps and we are not, and the problem I have described is I believe at the heart of it.He's still better than King Colin, lol

[john68]

First, If and only if, there is any truth (which I doubt) in the scaremongering that MP has lost the dressing room, my 1st focus would be on the players. It would mean that having won the League and FA Cup, the dressing room the players rejected Mancini and having won the League and League Cup, the same group were now rejecting a second manager. I would be tempted to think the problem lay within the players lounge, rather than the manager's office.

In another post, I flagged up the fact that not only had most of our players had a hard season last year, a commercial post season tour, the World Cup followed by yet another commercial tour. Commerce ruling that many of our players had little rest, hardly any preseason and some weren't even ready for the start of the season. Mismanagement of players for City commercial reasons at the expense of the football interests.

Whilst many are focusing on the central role of Yaya, City's game, in whatever plan or strategy is used by MP, is one that is underpinned by quick passing, acceleration of tempo and quick pressing of opponents. That can only be done by a group of players who are at peak energy levels. It is not only Yaya who seems lethargic compared to last season, the lack of energy/speed in our game is replicated by almost every player, compared to last season.

As for no Plan B, I'm not sure what some of you have been watching but it is quite plainly as ridiculous as the same accusation when it was also chucked at Mancini. Thankfully Ted has already exposed that accusation aimed at MP as simply a load of absolute bollox.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted, I think you've missed the point here. As I've said, ya ya is our key player and as you note, yesterday he was our second best, but only I think when he dropped back into his deep role. Few can do what he does which is why, when he doesn't do it, we are shit. We have not found a system to allow him to do what he does best and yet compensate for his deficiencies which have loomed large this year. Though we have won two championships we have not completely imposed ourselves and in the Chumps league we have been found out by sides who negate Ya Ya(or who are all round better)As you pointed out the Count addressed the problem by playing the F twins together and pushing Ya Ya forwards. The result was we came under the cosh from a crap team and failed to produce when Ya Ya wasn't pulling the strings. The Counts changes show you its the problem to be addressed by whoever the manager is, and the outcome, a draw with a poor team, that the solution has not been found.What ever people think, I am sure the fact is the owner expects us to compete very closely for the league and chumps and we are not, and the problem I have described is I believe at the heart of it.He's still better than King Colin, lol

I don't even know if City might be a better team without Yaya; I think it's possible they would.

But not with Silva injured, Nasri just returning from injury, and the two Ferns struggling like fuck as well as about 10 other players.

That's the point.

[Hazy2]

First, If and only if, there is any truth (which I doubt) in the scaremongering that MP has lost the dressing room, my 1st focus would be on the players. It would mean that having won the League and FA Cup, the dressing room the players rejected Mancini and having won the League and League Cup, the same group were now rejecting a second manager. I would be tempted to think the problem lay within the players lounge, rather than the manager's office.

In another post, I flagged up the fact that not only had most of our players had a hard season last year, a commercial post season tour, the World Cup followed by yet another commercial tour. Commerce ruling that many of our players had little rest, hardly any preseason and some weren't even ready for the start of the season. Mismanagement of players for City commercial reasons at the expense of the football interests.

Whilst many are focusing on the central role of Yaya, City's game, in whatever plan or strategy is used by MP, is one that is underpinned by quick passing, acceleration of tempo and quick pressing of opponents. That can only be done by a group of players who are at peak energy levels. It is not only Yaya who seems lethargic compared to last season, the lack of energy/speed in our game is replicated by almost every player, compared to last season.

As for no Plan B, I'm not sure what some of you have been watching but it is quite plainly as ridiculous as the same accusation when it was also chucked at Mancini. Thankfully Ted has already exposed that accusation aimed at MP as simply a load of absolute bollox.

the season to date is a mixed bag for almost every team From Everton to us through to Arsenal Scouse 1 and Spurs, nobody but Chelsea has put a run together, pretty mush a replica of the last Scum win, canter away and before we or anyone else which will not happen, the league is done. For me building when at the top is not to much of a problem these are fanatastic times to be a blue, just appears we are a one season, happy with that take a year off, the players bombed Mancini out under our noses in a fashion which many only cottoned too in May with a disgrace of a final act at Wembley, I hope MP is gonna get more respect than that John. Even if he was 2 yrs and going anyway. If that Is the case the players are using that as an excuse, pure speculation BTW.

[DoomMerchant]

If Paddy isn't the answer after The Count then I think we'll have missed a trick

Cheers