***Official City v chelsea FA Youth Cup final thread***

[twosips]

Been growing more and more impressed with Humphries recently. Wasn't sure at first on him but I thought both him and Tosin looked strong, great on the ball and pretty fast. He's only 16 too and Tosin's 17 - impressive.

[twosips]

Oh and Maffeo - was impressed, as ever, with his defensive work but that was the first time I've seen him attack so well too. He's so fucking strong for his size. It's a little ridiculous. Their LB is definitely faster than him but he got past him a few times through sheer persistence and strength. He can cross as well. He's got everything apart from a few extra inches but he plays like Cannavaro does defensively so his lack of height doesn't matter as he just reads the game so well.

Honestly think he'll be taking over Zaba by the start of the 16/17 season. Gotta integrate him somehow next year.

[Ted Hughes]

Oh and Maffeo - was impressed, as ever, with his defensive work but that was the first time I've seen him attack so well too. He's so fucking strong for his size. It's a little ridiculous. Their LB is definitely faster than him but he got past him a few times through sheer persistence and strength.

Honestly think he'll be taking over Zaba by the start of the 16/17 season. Gotta integrate him somehow next year.

I thought he did really well going forward & that puts him even closer to the first team imo. Contrary to some on here, I thought Barker's performance put him closer to the first team as well, for the opposite reason; how much effort he put in without the ball & how many challenges he made. He would never get 3 defenders blocking him in the first team like Chelsea often did.

When I first saw Humphries a year or two ago, I thought he was hopeless & couldn't understand how he played for England. Then I saw him for England & he was hopeless. Really progressing well. As for Tosin, I actually think he's better than Denayer was at the same age as a defender.

[twosips]

On that point - anyone who watches the EDS/academy games a lot last year and so on, how have the new recruits compared to the ones out on loan? Barker to Lopes, Tosin to Denayer.

Even Boadu to Fofana or any of the younger lads who've stepped in for players who have gone out on loan such as Facey, Drury, Hiwula, Leigh etc.

Be interested to know how they've compared. Only saw highlights of games last year and never full games.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

On that point - anyone who watches the EDS/academy games a lot last year and so on, how have the new recruits compared to the ones out on loan? Barker to Lopes, Tosin to Denayer.

Even Boadu to Fofana or any of the younger lads who've stepped in for players who have gone out on loan such as Facey, Drury, Hiwula, Leigh etc.

Be interested to know how they've compared. Only saw highlights of games last year and never full games.

Denayer looked a class act from day one but not necessarily as a strong defender. He would win balls through anticipation and good tackling and then play the ball out cleverly or move forward with the ball.I expect the loan move will have helped enormously in his defensive strength ( heading the ball and dealing with strong center forwards) and rest of his game will just have got better and better( I hope)

Tosin looked like a young gangly kid when I first saw him and he was playing with another big lad ( Nathaniel Oseni I think his name was, I wonder what happened to him.) He was able to win things because of his height but positionally and on the ball he was very average.But he has learned and developed wonderfully and now seems to have pretty well everything apart from experience.He probably needs a year on loan to get that and toughen up even more but he has what it takes.

Fofana I think is a limited player.A strong runner on the ball and will score a few goals but limited technical ability and vision which will limit the level he can play at. Boadu is also a strong runner with the ball but in a different way.He isn't about 40 yard runs but more short sharp bursts to break through a midfield.Plus he does have superb technical skills allied to good strength and real vision.I reckon if his head is right Boadu should make it at a high level.

Lopes v Barker is a fun one.Not seen much of Lopes since he went to Lille but the reports are good.Although I have always rated him it did concern me that he didn't always get into games like I would have hoped. Isolated a little as he played wide right I felt he should play more centrally. Similar things have been said at times about Barker as well.

Barker is showing a better workrate I would say to what I remember from Lopes but that a while ago now so who knows. That both have a good eye for a goal. Barker the better dribbler and although he wasn't at his peak last night we still saw a few instances where he went past players and created havoc.Lopes too can go past a man and has decent pace and strength. Maybe not a lot in it with these two even if there are real differences in their style of play.

As for others you mention (Facey, Drury, Hiwula, Leigh etc) we have much better now in all their positions with Maffeo,Humphries,Ambrose and Angelino but they should all make a decent living as a footballer.

Just on Humphries I would agree with others that he is coming along wonderfully and is still 16. Great prospect.

[iwasthere2012]

City are way better at passing than Chelsea in actual fact, & have been when they have played v most of these players previously, which makes these games even more frustrating to watch.

Barker wasn't at his best but he put an absolutely excellent shift in. If Ambrose & Boadu were playing, Chelsea couldn't line up two or three players between him & the box, as they did on both legs. Ambrose has the measure of these defenders & they need two on him as well.

Angelino & Maffeo put in great effort right to the death but even their passing was way below par. Kean Bryan some great defending but again poor passing & some poor first touches.

But for all the strength tactics mistakes whatever, swap the keepers & City win both legs. I'm not sure I've ever seen that kid make a proper difficult save of any kind.

To be honest Ted, player-wise I didn't see an awful lot wrong with last night's match. I think we have the better players, I suppose what I'm questioning is the preparation for winning an important game or even what they would face, should they be given the chance in the first team. But having said that I also find it admirable that we would send a team out that stick to the principles they have had instilled in them no matter what the game is. I suppose it has more to do with my own frustrations as a spectator.
There is no doubt they are being taught to play football properly but I have some concerns over the policy of 'tikka takka' at all costs. For it to work when you get to senior level you need the whole team capable of doing it in any tight situation, but you also need to know when not to risk it for the sake of it.
It also requires a tremendous work rate when you haven't got the ball. Thankfully despite poor decision making at times in possession, I don't think anyone can question the work rate of these young lads.
At Academy level you can see that they are being told to play out from the back in all situations. They do this regardless of whether it is wise or not.....it's how you learn, I suppose. But I think if you put one or two of them in the first team now, they'd be murdered. That's not to say I don't believe that some of them are better, or better prospects than what we have playing for our first team presently. I feel there is an urgency to progress some of these lads into the squad although I know not everyone agrees in 'rushing' them in. I hope the reports of Denayer going out to the championship next year are rubbish also, because I do think there is no reason why he couldn't get experience with us next year if put in the squad.
I've seen most of the highlights of the U18's and U19's but disregard this of having any value when assessing the prospects of any of the players.
I've read practically everything yourself, Twosips and Doug and several others have reported from actually being at these games and I trust your judgement on the progress of these squads. I have watched them live probably 4 games this year, certainly no more than 5. Each game has been against decent opposition in games of importance. I've liked what I've seen but I also have a few concerns. I'd like to see at least 5 of the team last night make it at City. I also thought that our two CB's looked very good. I thought Bryan really grew into it also. I can see why you've liked him. I'd like Maffeo and Angelino in the squad now, but the truth is they couldn't play in our current squad the way I've seen them try to play for the academy. The reason is our first team could not play the way the academy are being groomed.
This is what worries me a little bit about the current crop. As I've said, I think half of them are better than what we have, but I'm starting to feel that the reason we are not seeing them getting much chance has more to do with the limitations of our first team than the prospects of our youngsters. I hope this is making sense, because I'm sure it's not coming out right.
I'm starting to think you will only see one or two of the current crop making it through and it will take a little longer, maybe the 16's or 14's making it to U19 level before we see our first team capable of playing the kind of football we are grooming. I hope I'm wrong and I hope we see more radical changes in the summer than are being reported.
Incidentally, just how old are most of last night's squad. If, as I seem to be picking up from what Doug has written half of them seem eligible next year again, then maybe we will see a few more make it through, than my previous pessimistic paragraph would suggest.
I still feel it is onwards and upwards and when we produce almost a full team that has been through our system, the football will be a pleasure to watch.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I didn't watch the game last night but I recorded it and I saw the first twenty minutes this morning before I had to go out.

I thought the Chelsea crowd's reaction to Nacho's goal, when they started booing, showed a complete lack of class and sportsmanship.

Granted, it must have come as a disturbing shock for them - a veritable bolt from the Blue(s) - but it was a terrific move and a great finish and any true football fan can only have appreciated the skill on display. Instead, the Chelsea lot were booing.

Says it all about them, I suppose.

[iwasthere2012]

I didn't watch the game last night but I recorded it and I saw the first twenty minutes this morning before I had to go out.

I thought the Chelsea crowd's reaction to Nacho's goal, when they started booing, showed a complete lack of class and sportsmanship.

Granted, it must have come as a disturbing shock for them - a veritable bolt from the Blue(s) - but it was a terrific move and a great finish and any true football fan can only have appreciated the skill on display. Instead, the Chelsea lot were booing.

Says it all about them, I suppose.

I thought that was a bit crass too. I'm nearly sure I heard booing when he was substituted also.
No need for it at U18 level. The games are played in the best of spirit.
Thought Nacho looked a great prospect despite his rustiness.

[Ted Hughes]

I didn't get to attend that many live games of the previous group but I hunted down every bit of footage I could on the net & caught quite a lot of live stuff plus highlights & internationals. I liked Fofana in that he was capable of the spectacular but he wasn't as smart as these usually are (but he was as smart as they have been v Chelsea). Denayer as Doug says. Of the others I think only Lopes & Cole are worth particular mention. Barker has been considerably better imo than Lopes, but that isn't to say Lopes will be inferior in the long run. He produced some spectacular moments. Cole imo was & possibly still is potentially very close to the required level. I don't understand why he wasn't more highly rated. I don't see anything Chelsea's strikers can do that he can't do, for instance. Perhaps there is something else lacking but he's looked absolutely fine when I've seen him on loan.

If I was in charge at City he would have been in our first team squad since Christmas.

Just looked up the Chelsea side we beat after Christmas & it has both fullbacks, Musonda, Brown, Solanki, plus Christensen cb, & also Nathan Ake & Ruben Loftus Cheek the lads Mourinho expects to play in the first team next season.

We had Glendon, Ntcham, Bytqi, Evans, Pozo. But we also had Ambrose up front & Gunn in nets. Basically we beat a much stronger Chelsea team with a less talented but more physical City team. We dominated the game.

Feels like we've been mugged.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I didn't watch the game last night but I recorded it and I saw the first twenty minutes this morning before I had to go out.

I thought the Chelsea crowd's reaction to Nacho's goal, when they started booing, showed a complete lack of class and sportsmanship.

Granted, it must have come as a disturbing shock for them - a veritable bolt from the Blue(s) - but it was a terrific move and a great finish and any true football fan can only have appreciated the skill on display. Instead, the Chelsea lot were booing.

Says it all about them, I suppose.

I thought that was a bit crass too. I'm nearly sure I heard booing when he was substituted also.
No need for it at U18 level. The games are played in the best of spirit.
Thought Nacho looked a great prospect despite his rustiness.

I've still got to watch the remainder of the game but, from the little bit I've seen of Nacho, as well as the rest of the lads, I think I'm going to enjoy it in spite of the result which, at the end of the day, doesn't really matter in the cosmic scheme of things.

I would really hope all four of our back line could be kept together and, perhaps one day, constitute our first choice defensive line-up.

[Ted Hughes]

I didn't watch the game last night but I recorded it and I saw the first twenty minutes this morning before I had to go out.

I thought the Chelsea crowd's reaction to Nacho's goal, when they started booing, showed a complete lack of class and sportsmanship.

Granted, it must have come as a disturbing shock for them - a veritable bolt from the Blue(s) - but it was a terrific move and a great finish and any true football fan can only have appreciated the skill on display. Instead, the Chelsea lot were booing.

Says it all about them, I suppose.

I thought that was a bit crass too. I'm nearly sure I heard booing when he was substituted also.
No need for it at U18 level. The games are played in the best of spirit.
Thought Nacho looked a great prospect despite his rustiness.

I've still got to watch the remainder of the game but, from the little bit I've seen of Nacho, as well as the rest of the lads, I think I'm going to enjoy it in spite of the result which, at the end of the day, doesn't really matter in the cosmic scheme of things.

I would really hope all four of our back line could be kept together and, perhaps one day, constitute our first choice defensive line-up.

I think Jason Denayer may have something to say about that.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I didn't watch the game last night but I recorded it and I saw the first twenty minutes this morning before I had to go out.

I thought the Chelsea crowd's reaction to Nacho's goal, when they started booing, showed a complete lack of class and sportsmanship.

Granted, it must have come as a disturbing shock for them - a veritable bolt from the Blue(s) - but it was a terrific move and a great finish and any true football fan can only have appreciated the skill on display. Instead, the Chelsea lot were booing.

Says it all about them, I suppose.

I thought that was a bit crass too. I'm nearly sure I heard booing when he was substituted also.
No need for it at U18 level. The games are played in the best of spirit.
Thought Nacho looked a great prospect despite his rustiness.

I've still got to watch the remainder of the game but, from the little bit I've seen of Nacho, as well as the rest of the lads, I think I'm going to enjoy it in spite of the result which, at the end of the day, doesn't really matter in the cosmic scheme of things.

I would really hope all four of our back line could be kept together and, perhaps one day, constitute our first choice defensive line-up.

I think Jason Denayer may have something to say about that.

I fervently hope he would.....perhaps it might even give us the option of playing with three centre-backs ??

[Ted Hughes]

I think that's a possibility in the future, when the Count goes & the fullbacks are younger, fitter & better going forward. Certainly Pep or Vieira would think about using that system when it suited.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I think that's a possibility in the future, when the Count goes & the fullbacks are younger, fitter & better going forward. Certainly Pep or Vieira would think about using that system when it suited.

From the paltry few scraps I've seen of him and the youth reports from yourself, TwoSips and Mr H, it would seem that Angelino is taylor made for the out and out, wingback role.

The lad certainly looks as though he can play a bit.

[Nigels Tackle]

I think that's a possibility in the future, when the Count goes & the fullbacks are younger, fitter & better going forward. Certainly Pep or Vieira would think about using that system when it suited.

From the paltry few scraps I've seen of him and the youth reports from yourself, TwoSips and Mr H, it would seem that Angelino is taylor made for the out and out, wingback role.

The lad certainly looks as though he can play a bit.

but he doesn't look like a footballer does he? or am i the only one that thinks that?

[twosips]

Three at the back would be interesting.

........................... Gunn ...............................

......... Humphries .. Tosin ... Denayer ..........

Maffeo ............... Bryan ..................... Angelino

................ Lopes ..... Boadu...... Barker .................

........................... Ambrose .................

What i'd give to see that lot play together in a kinda b-team environment up against seasoned pros week in week out.... Iheanacho, Garcia etc too.

God that'd be fun!

[Wonderwall]

Three at the back would be interesting.

........................... Gunn ...............................

......... Humphries .. Tosin ... Denayer ..........

Maffeo ............... Bryan ..................... Angelino

................ Lopes ..... Boadu...... Barker .................

........................... Ambrose .................

What i'd give to see that lot play together in a kinda b-team environment up against seasoned pros week in week out.... Iheanacho, Garcia etc too.

God that'd be fun!

is that a 3 3 3 1 or a 3 6 1?

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Three at the back would be interesting.

........................... Gunn ...............................

......... Humphries .. Tosin ... Denayer ..........

Maffeo ............... Bryan ..................... Angelino

................ Lopes ..... Boadu...... Barker .................

........................... Ambrose .................

What i'd give to see that lot play together in a kinda b-team environment up against seasoned pros week in week out.... Iheanacho, Garcia etc too.

God that'd be fun!

is that a 3 3 3 1 or a 3 6 1?

or 3 4 3?

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Three at the back would be interesting.

........................... Gunn ...............................

......... Humphries .. Tosin ... Denayer ..........

Maffeo ............... Bryan ..................... Angelino

................ Lopes ..... Boadu...... Barker .................

........................... Ambrose .................

What i'd give to see that lot play together in a kinda b-team environment up against seasoned pros week in week out.... Iheanacho, Garcia etc too.

God that'd be fun!

Shouldn't forget Cole but it does just show the real talent we have around but still mostly at the under 18's age group.

[Ted Hughes]

I think what we have on that list is the cream of the initial 'new' academy players over recent years. You could add maybe Cole possibly Rekik & tbh I was impressed by the cameo of George Evans.

I think we will see a similar thing happen next, where perhaps some of the next age group are not quite so good, but mix with the younger ones from this group and go to EDS, whilst some of the younger ones below them get promoted & we possibly have a slight lull, then start to find another exciting 11 at u18s a year or so down the line.

What I will find most interesting, is when the first of the kids who have been coached in this manner from being small, post takeover, all start to reach the u18 age. Then I think we will see another leap in football style. We are seeing the 14s batter everybody each generation.

It's going to get even more interesting I think.