Financial results

[ashton287]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

[Socrates]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

[ronk]

Better than I expected, seeing as we did a lot of spending up to then. Next set will be worse, there's no way around that.

The amortisation costs were also a little higher than I expected. But that might just be to get the costs off the balance sheet.

[blootoof]

Slightly off topic here. If we were sold tomorrow would our players contracts still be covered, money wise?

[Socrates]

Slightly off topic here. If we were sold tomorrow would our players contracts still be covered, money wise?

No, not yet. Wage bill alone is greater than turnover.

[john@staustell]

There is no motivation for any 'sale'.

Mr Crates you speak wisely of course, but I insist that if we become part of the 'establishment' - hopefully this season - all our Platini problems will disappear and he will be on our side. Except of course that we are an English club

[Socrates]

There is no motivation for any 'sale'.

Mr Crates you speak wisely of course, but I insist that if we become part of the 'establishment' - hopefully this season - all our Platini problems will disappear and he will be on our side. Except of course that we are an English club

we won't become part of the establishment in one season any more than Everton did when they nicked 4th.

[blootoof]

Slightly off topic here. If we were sold tomorrow would our players contracts still be covered, money wise?

No, not yet. Wage bill alone is greater than turnover.

I thought the contract money was already paid up (set aside)? Was just wonderin if we got took over tomorrow would the new buyers have to cover the contracts. Goes over my head all this financial stuff.

[Alex Sapphire]

they'd be buying a business whose "value" is c 400million, and with income of 87 mill (more than half of it TV money) and expenditure (including wages) of 120 mill.

Their assets would bve the 120 year lease on the ground plus the players

Would you?

[King Kev]

For those of us still a little confused, here is what a financial expert said on SkySports News earlier (as mentioned by john@staustell).

I recorded it on my phone so the picture is crap but it's worth listening to as it explains things in fairly simple terms and they mention the scum's debts too.

[youtube]PPoEDJoJndQ[/youtube]

[bluej]

For those of us still a little confused, here is what a financial expert said on SkySports News earlier (as mentioned by john@staustell).

I recorded it on my phone so the picture is crap but it's worth listening to as it explains things in fairly simple terms and they mention the scum's debts too.

[youtube]PPoEDJoJndQ[/youtube]

Cheers for that Kev, it was a good watch, even if the guy kept mixing us and the rags names up!

[Rag_hater]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

From that youre saying if we come 4th this season we wont get in the CL.I think you are wrong on that one.
Also you say players who have signed contracts will not get paid if the clubs finances dont equal the income generated by activites of the club.Think youre mistaken there aswell.The sheikh will have to fund the club out of his own pocket as he is doing or risk being sued.And I should imaine as he is looking for positive publicity he is not going to risk that or saddle us with debt when it will lead to bad publicity for him.And we have no debt ,why wouldnt we get in?

[Alex Sapphire]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

From that youre saying if we come 4th this season we wont get in the CL.I think you are wrong on that one.
Also you say players who have signed contracts will not get paid if the clubs finances dont equal the income generated by activites of the club.Think youre mistaken there aswell.The sheikh will have to fund the club out of his own pocket as he is doing or risk being sued.And I should imaine as he is looking for positive publicity he is not going to risk that or saddle us with debt when it will lead to bad publicity for him.And we have no debt ,why wouldnt we get in?

he's making some assumptions about the new rules and their timing which might look scarey.
What we know is:
the rules will not come in tomorrow, but over 3 years. That ,may not start at all this season as all they have at present is an agreed plan of work to get "Financial Fairness" implemented
the rules will only apply to clubs whose turnover exceeds a certain level. Is it reasonable to assume that level is less than 85 mill? I don't know
that we will only get one crack at it and if we fail the criteria we're "banned" (fail to get a licence). Not sure this is so as they talk about clubs showing they are "moving towards" balanced books rather than spending more than they earn consistently.
This is how UEFA put it:
These include an obligation for clubs whose turnover is over a certain threshold, over a period of time, to balance their books or break even. Under the concept, clubs cannot repeatedly spend more than their generated revenues. Guidance will be given on salaries and transfer spending, indicators provided on the sustainability of levels of debt, and clubs will be obliged to honour their commitments at all times.

I read that as obligation to balance the books eventually, but only guidance and indicators on other financial areas (they have to be careful even though they write the rules.
The list of top clubs that meet Socrates interpretation is not very long and does not include some of the biggest names in football, so prolly won't happen. I'd speculate.

[Socrates]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

From that youre saying if we come 4th this season we wont get in the CL.I think you are wrong on that one.
Also you say players who have signed contracts will not get paid if the clubs finances dont equal the income generated by activites of the club.Think youre mistaken there aswell.The sheikh will have to fund the club out of his own pocket as he is doing or risk being sued.And I should imaine as he is looking for positive publicity he is not going to risk that or saddle us with debt when it will lead to bad publicity for him.And we have no debt ,why wouldnt we get in?

he's making some assumptions about the new rules and their timing which might look scarey.
What we know is:
the rules will not come in tomorrow, but over 3 years. That ,may not start at all this season as all they have at present is an agreed plan of work to get "Financial Fairness" implemented
the rules will only apply to clubs whose turnover exceeds a certain level. Is it reasonable to assume that level is less than 85 mill? I don't know
that we will only get one crack at it and if we fail the criteria we're "banned" (fail to get a licence). Not sure this is so as they talk about clubs showing they are "moving towards" balanced books rather than spending more than they earn consistently.
This is how UEFA put it:
These include an obligation for clubs whose turnover is over a certain threshold, over a period of time, to balance their books or break even. Under the concept, clubs cannot repeatedly spend more than their generated revenues. Guidance will be given on salaries and transfer spending, indicators provided on the sustainability of levels of debt, and clubs will be obliged to honour their commitments at all times.

I read that as obligation to balance the books eventually, but only guidance and indicators on other financial areas (they have to be careful even though they write the rules.
The list of top clubs that meet Socrates interpretation is not very long and does not include some of the biggest names in football, so prolly won't happen. I'd speculate.

ALex, I've given up responding to Hater as he just decides what I have written rather than reading it so I will just respond to yours. What clubs do you think are excluded except relatively small turnover clubs that spend their owner's money? Could maybe impact on a club like Wolfsburg? I'm making no assumptions, just anticipating that the club will prepare based on the worst case scenario - that means getting Champions League money into the 2011 accounts if at all possible, so that in 2012 we can be seen to be on course to balance the books and, if qualifying again, will not be at risk of seeing the license removed. Itisn't a one time shot,of course not, but we could get into a catch22 situation quite easily. On top of that, we may see spending severely curbed in an attempt to meet the criteria and thereby actually hampering our progress. That would leave us relying on Plan B, which is the £500,000,000 planned Academy spending to eventually get us to the top. Much better that we just get in the Champs League now don't you think?

[Rag_hater]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

From that youre saying if we come 4th this season we wont get in the CL.I think you are wrong on that one.
Also you say players who have signed contracts will not get paid if the clubs finances dont equal the income generated by activites of the club.Think youre mistaken there aswell.The sheikh will have to fund the club out of his own pocket as he is doing or risk being sued.And I should imaine as he is looking for positive publicity he is not going to risk that or saddle us with debt when it will lead to bad publicity for him.And we have no debt ,why wouldnt we get in?

he's making some assumptions about the new rules and their timing which might look scarey.
What we know is:
the rules will not come in tomorrow, but over 3 years. That ,may not start at all this season as all they have at present is an agreed plan of work to get "Financial Fairness" implemented
the rules will only apply to clubs whose turnover exceeds a certain level. Is it reasonable to assume that level is less than 85 mill? I don't know
that we will only get one crack at it and if we fail the criteria we're "banned" (fail to get a licence). Not sure this is so as they talk about clubs showing they are "moving towards" balanced books rather than spending more than they earn consistently.
This is how UEFA put it:
These include an obligation for clubs whose turnover is over a certain threshold, over a period of time, to balance their books or break even. Under the concept, clubs cannot repeatedly spend more than their generated revenues. Guidance will be given on salaries and transfer spending, indicators provided on the sustainability of levels of debt, and clubs will be obliged to honour their commitments at all times.

I read that as obligation to balance the books eventually, but only guidance and indicators on other financial areas (they have to be careful even though they write the rules.
The list of top clubs that meet Socrates interpretation is not very long and does not include some of the biggest names in football, so prolly won't happen. I'd speculate.

ALex, I've given up responding to Hater as he just decides what I have written rather than reading it so I will just respond to yours. What clubs do you think are excluded except relatively small turnover clubs that spend their owner's money? Could maybe impact on a club like Wolfsburg? I'm making no assumptions, just anticipating that the club will prepare based on the worst case scenario - that means getting Champions League money into the 2011 accounts if at all possible, so that in 2012 we can be seen to be on course to balance the books and, if qualifying again, will not be at risk of seeing the license removed. Itisn't a one time shot,of course not, but we could get into a catch22 situation quite easily. On top of that, we may see spending severely curbed in an attempt to meet the criteria and thereby actually hampering our progress. That would leave us relying on Plan B, which is the £500,000,000 planned Academy spending to eventually get us to the top. Much better that we just get in the Champs League now don't you think?

I think youve given up responding to me cos I can see youre chatting OTT shit

[Manx Blue]

Very disappointed...when it said financial results, I thought it was going to be like...the classified cheque ;) with Mark E Smith reading out said results!

[bluej]

right so breaking it down for the less financially informed please, if platini's stupid rule came in tomorrow where would we stand if we finish 4th this season. Would we be allowed to play or not ?. If not does it look like we'll be sorted by time it comes into effect ?.

It won't come in tomorrow, if it did no chance we would get in on these numbers and the May 2010 figures will be even worse! If we qualify for ECL this season and get that money on the trading account to 31 May 2011 then we should be ok. That's why the infinitely patient sheikh turned into the hasty sheikhy...

From that youre saying if we come 4th this season we wont get in the CL.I think you are wrong on that one.
Also you say players who have signed contracts will not get paid if the clubs finances dont equal the income generated by activites of the club.Think youre mistaken there aswell.The sheikh will have to fund the club out of his own pocket as he is doing or risk being sued.And I should imaine as he is looking for positive publicity he is not going to risk that or saddle us with debt when it will lead to bad publicity for him.And we have no debt ,why wouldnt we get in?

Try again.

[ronk]

The rules aren't finalised and aren't definite or announced.

What they've said is that they'll look at clubs breaking even over a 3 year period and it will be phased in over 3 years, coming fully into force in 2015.

Too much speculation beyond that is pointless, we don't have the details, and those details are vital. There's certain prep work that needs to be done and is being done on the financial side to put us on the right path.

Loans from the owner are a really fast and flexible way to put money into the club. Converting later into equity was always the plan. Sheik Mansour put more money into equity to prepay for some of the signings. For some owners debt has its advantages, it changes the situation if you're selling the club and it works better when you're not sole owner (Frank kept shares for a while).

[Ted Hughes]

I can't see us getting anywhere near that for a decade as we'll probably spend a fortune in the summer & would need about 3 times as many supporters to buy shirts etc just to generate the wage bill. I recon they're just going to pay lip service to the regulations to allow Platini to save face but continue to invest & see what he does to stop them. Will have already taken legal advice.

Which will have told them there is nothing they can do if it comes in, which is why they spent so much last summer, why they are redirected half a billion pounds in spending to the Academy and why they sacked Hughes when they did.

I think it may have told them there's nothing Platini can do about it.

Do you know exactly what powers Platini's little committee will have to stop clubs revenue streams, how they will distinguish between which clubs are allowed to recieve revenue from companies/individuals with connections to said clubs through sponsorship, share deals etc, or which FIFA rules they will be applying to enforce it & whether such rules can be challenged or are you just assuming they'll have it all watertight based on their previous watertight legislation such as the offside rule or the 4 linesmen?

[Socrates]

I can't see us getting anywhere near that for a decade as we'll probably spend a fortune in the summer & would need about 3 times as many supporters to buy shirts etc just to generate the wage bill. I recon they're just going to pay lip service to the regulations to allow Platini to save face but continue to invest & see what he does to stop them. Will have already taken legal advice.

Which will have told them there is nothing they can do if it comes in, which is why they spent so much last summer, why they are redirected half a billion pounds in spending to the Academy and why they sacked Hughes when they did.

I think it may have told them there's nothing Platini can do about it.

Do you know exactly what powers Platini's little committee will have to stop clubs revenue streams, how they will distinguish between which clubs are allowed to recieve revenue from companies/individuals with connections to said clubs through sponsorship, share deals etc, or which FIFA rules they will be applying to enforce it & whether such rules can be challenged or are you just assuming they'll have it all watertight based on their previous watertight legislation such as the offside rule or the 4 linesmen?

The evidence is in the Sheikh's actions, you just prefer to believe otherwise because of the position you took supporting an inexperienced out-of-his-depth manager.